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Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:30 pm

With MCO and TPA being BA's two remaining USA routes run from LGW, I was wondering if we might one day see them moved over to LHR to provide greater connectivity to the rest of BA's network. There is at least some precedence for this with BA having shifted at least one of the LAS rotations to LHR, whilst retaining one rotation from LGW. I could see BA doing something similar with MCO, though what they do with TPA is less certain.
 
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:39 pm

LAS started at LHR, the LGW rotation came later.

It is probably unlikely these routes would move over in the foreseeable future. If BA thought that these routes (or indeed any route out of LGW) would make more money at LHR it would already have moved as BA have the slots to do so after the BD merger. That they're still at LGW suggests that both routes are dominated by O&D leisure traffic with little perceived upside in carrying more connecting traffic.
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pezzy669
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:44 pm

Yeah due to the leisure O&D nature I doubt seeing them move, go check out the Orlando Trip Advisor travel forum to see the brits love affair with Mickey and Minnie.
 
BA0197
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:46 pm

I'd happily elaborate why this won't happen IMHO-

Let's get one thing quite clear- there is very little UK connections onto BA's Florida service at LGW, and even less European ones. These routes are one of the most strictly O&D in the BA network, I'd imagine. Let's also not forget how many airlines actually serve LON, the UK regions and wider Europe to MCO. These are highly seasonal and these airlines are serving people going to Disney- don't think anything otherwise.

MCO is for tourists- low yeilding. But, at the same time, everyone wants to go there from all over Europe so every airline wants to serve MCO as its essentially guaranteed revenue- everyone from the legacies to the LCC. Therefore multiple EU airlines fly from base to MCO. This is where LAS is slightly different- BA are the only hub airline in Europe to fly to LAS- therefore they can attract connections from Europe to feed this flight- and this would be high yielding as its a rare commodity. But the LGW-LAS route is strictly O&D, make no question about that. The 3x a week LHR-LAS is for high yielding conx traffic from the continent.

Putting MCO to one side, TPA is, I personally must admit, a rather odd one. TPA would attract some cruise traffic and some winter holiday home traffic, but is essentially an O&D route. BA seem to make it work becuase they are the only fully-year scheduled airline into Europe- considering LON is TPA's number one EU destination, this also helps. The USA-UK connections are what is supporting this route, IMHO.

Therefore MCO and TPA are fine at LGW for covering O&D pax going on typical family holidays in Y. LAS is a slight hybrid of a route that can attract high yielding EU pax, but to do this BA must fly this route from LHR to give the pax access to this destination.

Let's not forget that BA count NOT make JFK work from LGW because of two reasons- the connecting pax fill up the aircraft and, while the LON-JFK market is a huge O&D, fierce competition from airlines based at LHR made the inconvinence of travelling from LGW not worth while, considering the price difference. MCO and TPA are faced with neither of these issues and can support being segregated from the market, due to a lack of competition in this strictly O&D market (and VS use LGW as well so no advantage).
 
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:08 pm

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 3):
Let's also not forget how many airlines actually serve LON, the UK regions and wider Europe to MCO.

BA, VS, LH, Norwegian, Aer Lingus and Thomas Cook, not that many really. Its a culture thing. Whilst Orlando appeals to many British families, it has little appeal to many other Europeans.
 
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:48 pm

There would be more chance of BA moving BDA and BGI from LGW to LHR. These two flights offer First, and whilst BA offer it on other flights from LGW I suspect it's partly more to have sufficient aircraft with First at LGW. Switching those two to LHR could potentially allow BA to go all three class 777 at LGW.
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:49 pm

Speaking of leisure destinations, I wonder why PHX was never changed to LGW after the HP codeshare ended. Perhaps there is precedent for similar reasons as LAS due to BA being the only European airline to fly to PHX.
 
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:28 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 6):


Speaking of leisure destinations, I wonder why PHX was never changed to LGW after the HP codeshare ended. Perhaps there is precedent for similar reasons as LAS due to BA being the only European airline to fly to PHX.

The BA Phoenix flight is the only European flight out of PHX which is surprising. Scottsdale is one of the most charming and wealthiest places in the USA, like Beverly Hills in the desert. There is a tremendous Insurance and financial services industry out there. In the winter it swells with Mid western Americans seeking sunshine like Florida does for New Yorkers. Hopefully the new AA will show its PHX some love and launch a flight west of Hawaii or east of Ireland.
 
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:29 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 6):
Speaking of leisure destinations, I wonder why PHX was never changed to LGW after the HP codeshare ended. Perhaps there is precedent for similar reasons as LAS due to BA being the only European airline to fly to PHX.

I do believe this was due to Bermuda II.
 
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:35 pm

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 3):
But, at the same time, everyone wants to go there from all over Europe so every airline wants to serve MCO as its essentially guaranteed revenue- everyone from the legacies to the LCC.

Orlando has minimal popularity with Europeans outside of the UK and Ireland. It only service on one legacy European carrier to a legacy mainland Europe hub, Lufthansa to Frankfurt.
a.
 
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:35 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 1):
LAS started at LHR, the LGW rotation came later.
BA still flies LHR-LAS along with LGW-LAS. I think LAS is the only destination they fly to from both LHR and LGW.

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 3):
But the LGW-LAS route is strictly O&D, make no question about that. The 3x a week LHR-LAS is for high yielding conx traffic from the continent.

Actually LHR-LAS operates daily with the 747, while LGW-LAS operates 3x/week with the 772.

[Edited 2015-08-10 16:42:32]
 
cornishsimon
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:53 pm

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 10):
BA still flies LHR-LAS along with LGW-LAS. I think LAS is the only destination they fly to from both LHR and LGW.

Longhaul yes
shorthaul no

It does make me chuckle when these threads about BA LGW/LHR come up

BA keep certain longhaul routes at LGW because they are profitable, otherwise they would of been moved to LHR or binned by now, no other reason.

Its suggested elsewhere that BA will be moving an extra 772 to LGW from summer16 onwards which will see the launch of at least one new longhaul route which has already been reported but also the possibility of more/extra rotations to current destinations.

Now that the IAG takeover of EI is going through I would expect to see more Irish punters routed via the LGW longhaul network, and equally from London via Dublin, it will be made much easier when BA relocate to south terminal.

cs
 
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:28 am

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 8):
I do believe this was due to Bermuda II.

Bermuda II was long gone by the time BA came to LAS from either gateway.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
N1120A
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:03 am

There is no reason to waste the slots. MCO and TPA traffic on BA is almost all UK-based O&D.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 6):

Speaking of leisure destinations, I wonder why PHX was never changed to LGW after the HP codeshare ended. Perhaps there is precedent for similar reasons as LAS due to BA being the only European airline to fly to PHX.

BA switched PHX to LHR after meeting the Bermuda II rules for traffic. PHX isn't a solely leisure destination, isn't solely a UK-originating destination, and sees 2 way traffic to Europe. It makes sense that PHX went to Heathrow.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
The BA Phoenix flight is the only European flight out of PHX which is surprising.

LH made a go of it, with a Star partner there, and it didn't work. LH had to dump a lot of low yield auction tickets on the market.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
Scottsdale is one of the most charming and wealthiest places in the USA, like Beverly Hills in the desert.

It is not Beverly Hills in the desert. It is more like a bigger Palm Springs. The per capita income in Scottsdale is $20,000 less than Beverly Hills. Also, the 200,000 people in Scottsdale aren't going to make a Euro service work alone.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
In the winter it swells with Mid western Americans seeking sunshine like Florida does for New Yorkers.

None of those people would be using BA's service.

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 8):
I do believe this was due to Bermuda II.

BA moved PHX to LHR under the previous Bermuda II rules, as they were able to run enough traffic through there to convert the market and no one else served the PHX-LON market. PHX isn't solely a UK-O&D market.
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:47 am

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 3):
These are highly seasonal and these airlines are serving people going to Disney- don't think anything otherwise.

Except that year round there is tons of capacity. Lets not forget about the beaches nearby, other theme parks outside of Disney, a ton of Brits own second homes in this area, year round golf, proximity to other popular destinations in Floirda, and the 2nd(or 3rd) largest convention industry in the US after Las Vegas.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 4):
BA, VS, LH, Norwegian, Aer Lingus and Thomas Cook, not that many really.

Not that many in number, but the capacity is most certainly there. BA 2x772 daily, LH 744 daily, VS up to 5x 744 daily, and then the rest.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-scSM8dRtJ4ze93MzAvzkDJFabDB4kfTcNeoJp86Vc-7=w1186-h667-no

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Orlando has minimal popularity with Europeans outside of the UK and Ireland. It only service on one legacy European carrier to a legacy mainland Europe hub, Lufthansa to Frankfurt.

I think that is changing though. You hear a surprising amount of Nordic language speakers around the tourist areas. Much more than you used to. Plus, lets not forget about the Russians. They took a major hit when their economy crashed, but there are still plenty of visitors. Not anywhere near as many as Hollywood/Hallandale/Sunny Isles/Miami, but still a decent amount.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
There is no reason to waste the slots. MCO and TPA traffic on BA is almost all UK-based O&D.

Almost. The travel agency at my university sold me MCO-LGW/LHR-PRG back in the day. Just recently a friend of a friend was getting married in Santorini and they all flew MCO-LGW/LHR-ATH.
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Gazdon121
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:11 am

How often is the second daily to MCO is that also a daily flight as that would be a possibility
 
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:03 pm

Quoting Gazdon121 (Reply 15):

How often is the second daily to MCO is that also a daily flight as that would be a possibility

I'm pretty sure BA is 14x week. Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong.
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:51 pm

Quoting mcogator (Reply 16):
I'm pretty sure BA is 14x week. Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong.

The 14x week is seasonal but I do not know for sure if it will be year round.
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jfk777
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:48 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
Scottsdale is one of the most charming and wealthiest places in the USA, like Beverly Hills in the desert.
It is not Beverly Hills in the desert. It is more like a bigger Palm Springs. The per capita income in Scottsdale is $20,000 less than Beverly Hills. Also, the 200,000 people in Scottsdale aren't going to make a Euro service work alone.

Its no only the Scottsdale people but the entire Phoenix area which is Huge and Tucson. Arizona is huge and Phoenix is too, PHX can also feed from San Diego. San Diego has a very physically challenged airport with only one flight to Europe which happens to be a BA 777. Skyharbor is a OW hub and AA/BA can do more to Europe.
 
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:47 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 18):
Skyharbor is a OW hub and AA/BA can do more to Europe.

Phoenix's yields aren't as good as those in San Diego. Also, why take low yield PHX O&D when they can instead connect it over east coast hubs?

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 18):

Its no only the Scottsdale people but the entire Phoenix area which is Huge and Tucson.

The Phoenix metro is only slightly larger than the San Diego metro, and that doesn't include the draw San Diego has from both sides of the border, which is much larger.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 18):
San Diego has a very physically challenged airport with only one flight to Europe which happens to be a BA 777

Yet, SAN also has a OW carrier to Japan.
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:50 pm

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 3):
These are highly seasonal and these airlines are serving people going to Disney- don't think anything otherwise.

Rather sweeping statement- that would be like saying that flights into MIA ex UK are only serving the cruise market. Central Florida offers a lot more than just Disney and its not the only reason Brits visit. Of course you may think that if you have visited Orlando and not ventured further than the five mile radius of Disney and Universal.

Florida is very popular, for example, with golfers. Brits are also moving over on B2 Visa's to be snowbirds. There are also lots of second home owners. Then there is the convention market. Add in the nearby beaches and it is about much more than the bottom half of I Drive. There is also a more luxurious side to Central Florida. Spend five minutes in Windermere, Dr. Phillips, Winter Park or even out on the Palm Coast (not to mention places on the golf coast) and you realise that actually there are lots of reasons to visit that don't involve the mouse.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 4):
BA, VS, LH, Norwegian, Aer Lingus and Thomas Cook, not that many really. Its a culture thing. Whilst Orlando appeals to many British families, it has little appeal to many other Europeans.

I don't agree with you. Having been in Central Florida last week I heard just as many French and German voices as I did English voices. To say its just Brits that visit Central Florida is very wide of the mark.
 
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:51 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
LH made a go of it, with a Star partner there, and it didn't work. LH had to dump a lot of low yield auction tickets on the market.

HP wasn't in Star at the time.
 
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:52 pm

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 21):

HP wasn't in Star at the time.

Didn't the LH service extend into the merger?
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:59 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 18):
PHX can also feed from San Diego. San Diego has a very physically challenged airport with only one flight to Europe which happens to be a BA 777. Skyharbor is a OW hub and AA/BA can do more to Europe.

But it's still an absolute pittance compared to LAX, which is 1/3rd of the travel distance.

Why would anyone drive from SAN to PHX solely to catch a flight, when LAX is comparatively right there?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:30 pm

Quoting willd (Reply 20):
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 4):
BA, VS, LH, Norwegian, Aer Lingus and Thomas Cook, not that many really. Its a culture thing. Whilst Orlando appeals to many British families, it has little appeal to many other Europeans.

I don't agree with you. Having been in Central Florida last week I heard just as many French and German voices as I did English voices. To say its just Brits that visit Central Florida is very wide of the mark

|I didn't say it was just the British who visit Orlando, its just that the truth is that there are far more British visitors than from the rest of Europe. Recently Brazilians have overtaken the British in the visiting Orlando stakes, amply illustrated by my last visit, their numbers are now about 760,000 with British on 750,000, that leaves around 2,500,000 for the rest of the World.
 
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:34 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
Didn't the LH service extend into the merger?

Pulled out in 2003 - http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2003/12/22/story4.html
 
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:51 pm

Quoting willd (Reply 20):
Florida is very popular, for example, with golfers. Brits are also moving over on B2 Visa's to be snowbirds. There are also lots of second home owners. Then there is the convention market. Add in the nearby beaches and it is about much more than the bottom half of I Drive. There is also a more luxurious side to Central Florida. Spend five minutes in Windermere, Dr. Phillips, Winter Park or even out on the Palm Coast (not to mention places on the golf coast) and you realise that actually there are lots of reasons to visit that don't involve the mouse.

Indeed. When I last visited Florida nearly 12 months ago we spent just over 2 weeks out there and only 5 of those nights involved staying in the Orlando area - the rest was spent on the Gulf Coast, Miami and the Keys. Next year's provisional itinerary for our proposed 2 week trip there only involve 3 nights in Orlando (however I'll be out in Orlando with friends for a week a few months prior specifically to do the parks).

It could be argued that if it wasn't for the theme parks in the Orlando area, the state of Florida probably wouldn't get anywhere near as many tourists as they do visiting areas other than Orlando, especially from Europe.

Other reasons why Florida is so popular with the British in particular include the fact that most people speak the same language, the culture is similar in many ways and, above all, warm and sunny weather guaranteed for most parts of the year.

In any case, it's fair to say that Mr Disney's decision to open a theme park in Orlando has made Florida an attractive destination for tourists and I'm sure those who have jobs that are reliant on tourism are grateful for the continuing popularity of the theme parks and the state of Florida in general with tourists from both the USA and the rest of the world.

Quoting willd (Reply 20):
I don't agree with you. Having been in Central Florida last week I heard just as many French and German voices as I did English voices. To say its just Brits that visit Central Florida is very wide of the mark.

Also add the Portuguese language being spoken. I heard quite a few Brazilians when I was in the Universal parks last year.

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 3):
Putting MCO to one side, TPA is, I personally must admit, a rather odd one. TPA would attract some cruise traffic and some winter holiday home traffic, but is essentially an O&D route. BA seem to make it work becuase they are the only fully-year scheduled airline into Europe- considering LON is TPA's number one EU destination, this also helps. The USA-UK connections are what is supporting this route, IMHO.

Forgive my lack of knowledge on the cruise market but I wouldn't have had TPA down as a cruise hotspot compared to FLL or MIA, but as well as being a gateway to the Gulf Coast it's also an alternative to those heading to the Orlando area being no more than 90mins up I-4.

I can see TPA becoming more popular in the future and it wouldn't surprise me if Thomas Cook start serving TPA.

Quoting mcogator (Reply 14):
Not that many in number, but the capacity is most certainly there. BA 2x772 daily, LH 744 daily, VS up to 5x 744 daily, and then the rest.

I thought LH sending the 744 was seasonal? Last September they were sending the A330-300 on the route and I'm sure A340s have been used in the past.
 
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:00 am

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 8):
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 6):
Speaking of leisure destinations, I wonder why PHX was never changed to LGW after the HP codeshare ended. Perhaps there is precedent for similar reasons as LAS due to BA being the only European airline to fly to PHX.

I do believe this was due to Bermuda II.

Even if Bermuda II had been applicable then, I don't think there were any restrictions on carriers moving from LHR to LGW. The problem was in the other direction.

I expect PHX staying at LHR was because PHX probably gets significantly more U.S.-originating passengers than MCO and TPA where the bulk of the traffic is UK-originating leisure traffic where connections aren't a factor. A high percentage of PHX-originating passengers would be connecting beyond LHR. They'd lose all that traffic if they moved the PHX service to LGW.
 
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:41 am

I was living in Sofia Bulgaria in the 90s and wanted to travel home for Christmas to St. Pete, FL so did a Gatwick transfer between Balkan and BA. I was shocked when my return was on a Caledonian DC 10 in package tour configuration. I also remember the gate agent (AA or USAir) had incorrect visa information. It was an all around disaster.
 
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:28 am

Quoting Boeing74741R (Reply 26):
Forgive my lack of knowledge on the cruise market but I wouldn't have had TPA down as a cruise hotspot compared to FLL or MIA, but as well as being a gateway to the Gulf Coast it's also an alternative to those heading to the Orlando area being no more than 90mins up I-4.

Port Canaveral is also a big cruise hub and MCO is the closest airport with service to Europe.

Quoting willd (Reply 20):

I don't agree with you. Having been in Central Florida last week I heard just as many French and German voices as I did English voices. To say its just Brits that visit Central Florida is very wide of the mark.

Funny I always observed that I heard the British accents at Disney but German being spoken everywhere at Kennedy Space Center...

Over 50% of our international visitors come from 3 countries - Canada, Brazil, and the UK (2.7 million out of 4.8 million total). Unfortunately I cannot find data for where the other 2 million or so come from.

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 3):
Let's also not forget how many airlines actually serve LON, the UK regions and wider Europe to MCO. These are highly seasonal and these airlines are serving people going to Disney- don't think anything otherwise.
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 3):
But, at the same time, everyone wants to go there from all over Europe so every airline wants to serve MCO as its essentially guaranteed revenue- everyone from the legacies to the LCC.

Orlando has minimal popularity with Europeans outside of the UK and Ireland. It only service on one legacy European carrier to a legacy mainland Europe hub, Lufthansa to Frankfurt.

AF has had a couple of aborted attempts at service here. Maybe they need the right airplane for the route. Do they have any 78J's on order? I would imagine a high density version of that plane would be a perfect TATL tourist bus. I think a reason for a lack of connecting traffic through LON is that there are already plenty of opportunities for one stop connections from mainland Europe to MCO thanks to MCO having dozens of flights per day to ever major US hub. If you can get a non stop to JFK, EWR, ORD, ATL, CLT, IAH, DFW, MIA, DTW, etc, AA, DL, and UA will get you to MCO. As far as I know, there isn't a single legacy carrier hub we don't have non stop service to.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:53 am

Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 29):
As far as I know, there isn't a single legacy carrier hub we don't have non stop service to.

AS is technically a Legacy, as they flew interstate prior to Dereg... and PDX is kind of an AS hub/focus.

So that might be one example, depending on how technical one wants to be.  
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
MAH4546
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:08 am

Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 29):
Maybe they need the right airplane for the route. Do they have any 78J's on order? I

AF used a super high density 777 with only 14 seats. Hard to find a better plane.
a.
 
gkirk
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:57 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
AF used a super high density 777 with only 14 seats.

Only 14 seats on a 777  Wow!
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:01 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 23):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 18):PHX can also feed from San Diego. San Diego has a very physically challenged airport with only one flight to Europe which happens to be a BA 777. Skyharbor is a OW hub and AA/BA can do more to Europe.
But it's still an absolute pittance compared to LAX, which is 1/3rd of the travel distance.

Why would anyone drive from SAN to PHX solely to catch a flight, when LAX is comparatively right there?



Where did I say "drive to Phoenix ? " Fly to PHX to connect.
 
mcogator
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:26 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
AF used a super high density 777 with only 14 seats. Hard to find a better plane.

Which was packed to the gills when I flew on it.
“Traveling – it leaves you speechless, then turns you into a storyteller.” – Ibn Battuta
 
MAH4546
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:21 pm

Quoting gkirk (Reply 32):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
AF used a super high density 777 with only 14 seats.

Only 14 seats on a 777  

Ha, sorry. Meant "only 14 J seats."
a.
 
aarbee
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:44 pm

Would EK starting their service into MCO persuade BA/VS to get connecting traffic to LHR instead of LGW?
Love the AIXes
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:35 pm

Quoting aarbee (Reply 36):

Would EK starting their service into MCO persuade BA/VS to get connecting traffic to LHR instead of LGW?

VS don't really do connecting traffic, if BA had seen any real prospect of profitable connecting traffic for MCO it would have been a LHR route long ago.
 
cornishsimon
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:28 pm

BA are bit by bit adding shorthaul routes back to LGW, so the potential transfer traffic could go up.

Needless to say, BA LGW serve mainly bucket and spare destinations both short and longhaul, however its entirely possible to transfer overland after arriving at LCY or LHR on one ticket by road etc onto a LGW departing service, and many many people per day do just this.

With EI coming into IAG, I suspect we might well see an effort by IAG to fill the ex LGW longhaul routes via feed from DUB, BHD etc. as well as I feel a BA/IB MAD-LGW

BA are adding capacity at LGW with the use of A320 aircraft replacing the 734s, so this will also help point to point and connecting traffic, its also not beyond the realms to think that BA might further increase the shorthaul fleet based at Crawley if the airbus investment is looking sound........


s
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:27 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 33):
Where did I say "drive to Phoenix ? " Fly to PHX to connect.

Weak pivot, as the point still remains: why would HVF do that in numbers sufficient to drive changes in int'l service, when LAX is right there?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
GSP psgr
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:35 pm

Quoting Cornishsimon (Reply 38):
With EI coming into IAG, I suspect we might well see an effort by IAG to fill the ex LGW longhaul routes via feed from DUB, BHD etc. as well as I feel a BA/IB MAD-LGW

Actually, with EI joining IAG, they can route a good amount of connecting flows through DUB onto MCO more seamlessly than LGW and less painfully than the LHR experience. I would also expect to see either AA or EI add service on the MIA-DUB route as well.
 
GSTBA
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:23 am

Quoting dabpit (Reply 17):

Quoting mcogator (Reply 16):
I'm pretty sure BA is 14x week. Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong.

The 14x week is seasonal but I do not know for sure if it will be year round.

The 14 x weekly (2 x daily) service is currently seasonal. BA's schedule is currently available through until the end of July 2016. BA plan to operate the following frequencies between the dates shown.

Through to 24OCT15 & From 27MAR16 - 2 x Daily

25OCT15 to 30NOV15 & 20MAR16 to 26MAR16 - 10 x Weekly

01DEC15 to 11MAR16 - Daily

12MAR16 to 19MAR16 - 9 x Weekly
 
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pu
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:31 am

Quoting mcogator (Reply 14):
I think that is changing though.

Definitely.

LH is starting TPA service this fall. Edelweiss already serve TPA. Central Florida and the west coast beaches are attracting everyone who doesn't enjoy the full blown sexuality-on-parade and 24/7 party of Miami/South Beach.

Quoting willd (Reply 20):
Having been in Central Florida last week I heard just as many French and German voices as I did English voices.

Correct!

Clearwater Beach and Sarasota are much better for families than Miami and South Florida, IMO, and there's a couple big new resorts in that area that are being built as we speak in large part to cater to European audiences. IF you want 24/7 party: take it to MIA. If you have kids: the beaches in the Tampa Bay Area + Disney + NASA + Port Canaveral = all in a compact area which has a lot of appeal, its very drive-able, more laid back and more affordable than South Florida. In Germany and Northern Europe the 16-29 crowd wants Miami abut over 30s are more often choosing central Florida, from what I see. It's becoming quite hot right now, with a lot of new package deals being advertised. One slogan I saw translates into something like, "Visit the friendlier Florida."





Pu.
 
mcogator
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:34 am

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 41):
The 14 x weekly (2 x daily) service is currently seasonal. BA's schedule is currently available through until the end of July 2016. BA plan to operate the following frequencies between the dates shown.

Through to 24OCT15 & From 27MAR16 - 2 x Daily

25OCT15 to 30NOV15 & 20MAR16 to 26MAR16 - 10 x Weekly

01DEC15 to 11MAR16 - Daily

12MAR16 to 19MAR16 - 9 x Weekly

Thanks for the info!

Quoting pu (Reply 42):
Definitely.

LH is starting TPA service this fall. Edelweiss already serve TPA. Central Florida and the west coast beaches are attracting everyone who doesn't enjoy the full blown sexuality-on-parade and 24/7 party of Miami/South Beach.

South Beach has taken a turn for the worse, imo. It's not what it used to be, and feels a little more dangerous walking around.

The problem with Cleawater is someties the water in the Gulf is too hot in the summer, but other than that it's a nice place. The Atlantic beaches are hit or miss, and those dang pesky sharks can be a nuisance.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 37):
if BA had seen any real prospect of profitable connecting traffic for MCO it would have been a LHR route long ago.

It could also be that BA doesn't want to fix what isn't broken. LH can fill their planes with what I assume to be a large percentage of connecting traffic, why can't BA? The Central Florida region now has a population of over 8 million, and Orlando alone had 60 million visitors in 2014.
“Traveling – it leaves you speechless, then turns you into a storyteller.” – Ibn Battuta
 
bobnwa
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:34 pm

Quoting pu (Reply 42):
Central Florida and the west coast beaches are attracting everyone who doesn't enjoy the full blown sexuality-on-parade and 24/7 party of Miami/South Beach.

You are forgetting the wonderful area served by RSW which includes Fort Myers, Naples,Marco Island Port Charlotte an Punta Gorda. The beaches in that area put the beaches at Ft Lauderdale and Miami to shame
 
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pu
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:28 am

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 44):
You are forgetting the wonderful area served by RSW which includes Fort Myers, Naples,Marco Island Port Charlotte an Punta Gorda. The beaches in that area put the beaches at Ft Lauderdale and Miami to shame

I have been there too! To me, Ft Myers Beach is a lot like Clearwater Beach. Times Square is probably better nightlife so I like that in particular. But both locations are very pedestrian-friendly and I'm talking more about the way the tourist amenities are arranged than sand or water quality. Sand or water quality is fine also. From what I can tell the areas served by RSW are maybe 20 years or so "behind" Clearwater in development, if "behind" is the right word. Some people, including myself, appreciate a place not dominated by big hotels. But families often do better in places with heavier development that tend to have more facilities in place and crowd attractions for the rugrats - like the pirate boat that prowls around Clearwater.

I think RSW area should market itself to Europeans something along the lines of "Spend a day in Miami and then the rest of the week in Ft Myers." Thats a good holiday. Get your party fix satiated and monitor the "colourful" scenery in South Beach...then drive across to RSW and relax in a laid back, affordable holiday.

Central Florida is very attractive to Europeans because it accomplishes a lot of to-do-list items in one handy zone about 2 hours across...NASA/DISNEY/BEACHES/CRUISES...all with a more family-friendly attitude than MIA, IMO.

To get back to the thread topic...the European legacy carriers are so retarded in their devotion to their home markets that BA will not likely ever need to switch service to Heathrow because they in some strange mindset aren't interested in attracting connecting traffic.



Pu.
 
Boeing74741R
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:19 am

Quoting pu (Reply 45):
I have been there too! To me, Ft Myers Beach is a lot like Clearwater Beach. Times Square is probably better nightlife so I like that in particular. But both locations are very pedestrian-friendly and I'm talking more about the way the tourist amenities are arranged than sand or water quality. Sand or water quality is fine also. From what I can tell the areas served by RSW are maybe 20 years or so "behind" Clearwater in development, if "behind" is the right word. Some people, including myself, appreciate a place not dominated by big hotels. But families often do better in places with heavier development that tend to have more facilities in place and crowd attractions for the rugrats - like the pirate boat that prowls around Clearwater.

I have to say, when I drove through Clearwater last year it had changed quite a lot since we stayed there 12 years prior. Different (and more) hotels have popped up and there's more amenities such as bars and restaurants. Even if you're not travelling as a family, it's no bad thing being in a location where there's a good selection of amenities locally, though I agree that overdeveloped areas aren't desirable.

Quoting pu (Reply 45):
Central Florida is very attractive to Europeans because it accomplishes a lot of to-do-list items in one handy zone about 2 hours across...NASA/DISNEY/BEACHES/CRUISES...all with a more family-friendly attitude than MIA

  

Got it in one. There are many aspects to Central Florida that appeal to people of all ages and all within a reasonable driving distance of each other, and MCO/SFB are centrally positioned to cater for those heading to either (or all) part of Central Florida.

Quoting pu (Reply 45):
To get back to the thread topic...the European legacy carriers are so retarded in their devotion to their home markets that BA will not likely ever need to switch service to Heathrow because they in some strange mindset aren't interested in attracting connecting traffic.

I disagree here. As someone mentioned above earlier, these routes are mainly O&D and make money from BA out of LGW, so for as long as LHR slots are at a premium and for as long as they continue to make money from LGW there's not much reason to change things.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:40 am

Quoting pu (Reply 45):
To get back to the thread topic...the European legacy carriers are so retarded in their devotion to their home markets that BA will not likely ever need to switch service to Heathrow because they in some strange mindset aren't interested in attracting connecting traffic.

You left out the part where point-to-point traffic is almost universally higher-yielding.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:01 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 47):

Quoting pu (Reply 45):
To get back to the thread topic...the European legacy carriers are so retarded in their devotion to their home markets that BA will not likely ever need to switch service to Heathrow because they in some strange mindset aren't interested in attracting connecting traffic.

You left out the part where point-to-point traffic is almost universally higher-yielding.

Connecting traffic is a great way of filling up planes, yield however across both sectors is often little if any better than that operating the main long haul sector only. On price sensitive routes such as these, there is little wonder that BA doesn't want to incur additional costs of operating them from LHR
 
tjh8402
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RE: Will BA Ever Move MCO And TPA To LHR?

Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:20 am

Quoting aarbee (Reply 36):

Would EK starting their service into MCO persuade BA/VS to get connecting traffic to LHR instead of LGW?

I don't see how it would. Connecting traffic already has the option of pretty much ever major US hub, AC, FRA on LH, MEX on AM, and now DXB on EK. I would think the increase in competition would, if anything, persuade BA and VS to avoid trying to join the fray. What new destinations could BA turn into one stoppers using LHR as a connection with MCO that are not already served?

The only way (and I don't see this happening) that I could see BA doing this is if they all of a sudden have unused A380s or 77Ws and that they need to fill (as I said, not likely) and/or the 77E's are retired or become uneconomical. The 77E's currently flying 2x day most days each seat 275 seats, so 550 total. Theoretically they could swap one LGW 77E for an LHR A380 and one for something smaller and cheaper to operate like a 788 and fly that into LGW. That's a total of 683 seats with a380+788. Adds 133 seats for connecting traffic, so while dunno if you'd have a lower total fuel burn, at least CASM would go down. If they went 77W+788, they lose a few seats and end up with 513. Still should have lower total fuel bill since the 77W burns about the same as the 77E and the 788 would burn significantly less. My impression, though, is that BA is having no trouble finding work for both the A380 and 77W and clearly the 77E's aren't going anywhere anytime soon. If they really wanted to get creative, they could do a high density A380 with like 600 seats. That would account for the 550 they currently fly to London, give an extra 50 seats for connecting traffic, and lower their CASM by flying one A380 instead of two 77E's.

[Edited 2015-08-15 19:31:27]

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