mattya9
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KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:44 pm

I have lived in Vegas for almost 4 years now and one thing I've wondered is why McCarran doesn't have/attract more international service? With Vegas being visited by tens of millions of people a year one would think the airport would be ripe with a number of different international carriers. Now don't get me wrong, right now there is a fair amount of international traffic but the busy days are Thursday's and Sunday's. What would it take to get daily service from existing and new markets? Korean recently upped their service from 3x to 4x weekly, all on 777-300's. Norwegian Air Shittle will also start service soon, the Latin American airlines are slightly increasing service, and Edelweiss is fairlynew as well. But again, service is limited to only a few/couple times a week.

Obviously Vegas lacks the business/major cultural markets of the likes of NYC, Miami, San Francisco, Dallas, Chicago, etc., but is leisure travel enough to attract the likes of other major international carriers (ie. Lufthansa, Singapore, Qantas, Emirates, etc)? Is the proximity to LAX a large factor in airlines deciding to serve LAS? I apologize for the vagueness of the question but I'm interested in what you all have to say on the subject. Lastly, with the economy doing better, and the number of visitors up here in Vegas, the timing seems good for new service.

OPS
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jetblue1965
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:51 pm

Quoting mattya9 (Thread starter):

Obviously Vegas lacks the business/major cultural markets of the likes of NYC, Miami, San Francisco, Dallas, Chicago, etc., but is leisure travel enough to attract the likes of other major international carriers (ie. Lufthansa, Singapore, Qantas, Emirates, etc)? Is the proximity to LAX a large factor in airlines deciding to serve LAS? I apologize for the vagueness of the question but I'm interested in what you all have to say on the subject. Lastly, with the economy doing better, and the number of visitors up here in Vegas, the timing seems good for new service.

SQ, no. They're barely surviving on their 5th-freedom tags to the US. LAS will certainly be a tag SIN-XXX-LAS, and I don't see that happening.

LH maybe, with the new JUMP platform.

QF can barely restart SFO. I don't see them at LAS anytime soon. YVR would be a higher priority.

EK has the best chance here. If anyone can make it work, it's EK. What's the target market, i have absolutely no idea.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:54 pm

SQ already flew to Vegas and failed. LAS-HKG-SIN, 772ER.

9/11 was a convenient excuse; but the flight had pitiful loads well before that, and wasn't generally any more expensive than the LAX/SFO departures to HKG.

[Edited 2015-08-11 10:56:36]
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:58 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 1):
What's the target market, i have absolutely no idea.

I have little doubt that we'll see EK in LAS eventually... in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we see them there before in MFM, as their hub structure doesn't lend itself to transporting the latter's primary draw (Asian pax within 4hrs)
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
drgmobile
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:02 pm

While there are pockets of folks around the world who travel to Las Vegas, it's largely a North American destination. Only around 20% of visitors are foreign and a very big number of these are Canadian (not finding the breakdown).*

Only 42% of travelers to Las Vegas even arrive by air. LAS also is very O&D, as it isn't a hub for any of the main network carriers on which overseas tourists would arrive into the U.S.

There is significant international service to LAS provided by Canadian carriers. In fact there have been significant increases in service by both AC and WestJet over the past 5-10 years..

(*Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority stats)

[Edited 2015-08-11 11:05:01]
 
threeifbyair
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:07 pm

Quoting mattya9 (Thread starter):
Obviously Vegas lacks the business/major cultural markets of the likes of NYC, Miami, San Francisco, Dallas, Chicago, etc., but is leisure travel enough to attract the likes of other major international carriers (ie. Lufthansa, Singapore, Qantas, Emirates, etc)? Is the proximity to LAX a large factor in airlines deciding to serve LAS?

LAS gets some major business conventions, but what it really needs are business customers based in the city to provide O&D.

BOS is loaded with businesses, so despite lacking a US3 hub, it gets a ton of international traffic.

Business customers tend to book later, which means higher fares, and are much more likely to purchase J/F on international legs.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:14 pm

My left-field guess is that some Chinese carrier is really looking hard at LAS. If anyone would launch LAS, it would be HU doing either PEK-LAS or PVG-LAS.
 
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Polot
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:18 pm

LAS also suffers from poor location for intercontinental service. It is pretty far from Europe and it is pretty far from Asia while not generating sufficiently high enough yields from those locations.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:30 pm

Quoting polot (Reply 7):


LAS also suffers from poor location for intercontinental service. It is pretty far from Europe and it is pretty far from Asia while not generating sufficiently high enough yields from those locations.

It also overflies all the big O&D towns - from Asia it overflies SFO/LAX, and from Europe, it overflies nearly the whole continent.

LAS has very good long haul service giving its leisure profile, including multiple London flights. Other mid-sized towns would be begging to have that level of service. There aren't really any major gaps that *needs* to be filled. At most one to China and one to ME.
 
B777LRF
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:46 pm

Las Vegas is the playground of the USA, but far from the rest of the worlds. Some tourists who have the Western US as their destination may pass by for a day or two, the majority leaving feeling rather non-plussed.

As a leisure destination it has little bordering on nothing to offer that is not associated with a big hotel-cum-casinos, all wrapped in extremely loud, tacky, fakeness. While some do like it, for very many outside the US it is the epitome of holiday hell.

Therefore, as a destination with limited appeal it will only command limited yields. On top of that you have an unattractive geographic position, and facilities that are not really geared towards receiving masses of foreign arrivals.

So why does Vegas not attract more international traffic? Because it's not a very attractive destination internationally, that's why.
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N1120A
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:51 pm

LAS already has tons of service, given its profile.

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 5):

BOS is loaded with businesses, so despite lacking a US3 hub, it gets a ton of international traffic.

BOS is also loaded with universities and is the closest major city to Europe, enabling very efficient use of aircraft and lower costs to operate, to go along with yields. BOS has got to be one of the most profitable cities in the US for EU carriers.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 6):
My left-field guess is that some Chinese carrier is really looking hard at LAS. If anyone would launch LAS, it would be HU doing either PEK-LAS or PVG-LAS.

No need when they have Macau.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 9):
Las Vegas is the playground of the USA, but far from the rest of the worlds.

Actually, most of the higher yielding traffic into LAS comes from outside the US and North America.
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Ytraveller
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:52 pm

Hello fellow LAS resident!

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 8):

LAS has very good long haul service giving its leisure profile, including multiple London flights. Other mid-sized towns would be begging to have that level of service. There aren't really any major gaps that *needs* to be filled. At most one to China and one to ME.

I agree. Daily 747s to both LHR and LGW, along with frequent year-round service to FRA and ICN.

Quoting mattya9 (Thread starter):
Lastly, with the economy doing better, and the number of visitors up here in Vegas, the timing seems good for new service.

We have been getting lots of new service lately: CM, TS, WK, more UK destinations with TCX & VS, and now DY.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 1):

EK has the best chance here. If anyone can make it work, it's EK. What's the target market, i have absolutely no idea.

Perhaps, what with EK starting MCO. But a Middle Eastern carrier and Sin City don't go hand in hand IMO.
 
N1120A
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:54 pm

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 11):
. But a Middle Eastern carrier and Sin City don't go hand in hand IMO.

LOL. You've got no clue as to the habits of those who would use such a service.
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gkirk
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:57 pm

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drgmobile
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:06 pm

I found some additional breakdown on that 18-19% of visitors to Las Vegas from outside the U.S.: According to the article linked below, 70% of those are from Canada, Mexico and the UK.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/busines...aims-benefit-surge-foreign-tourism

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 11):
But a Middle Eastern carrier and Sin City don't go hand in hand IMO.

Of the overseas visitor markets I'd expect the city to aim for, the Middle East and China would be the top two actually.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:33 pm

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 4):
There is significant international service to LAS provided by Canadian carriers

There's significant international service to LAS provided by carriers from all over.

This post glosses over the fact that LAS has scheduled international service from:
AeroMexico
Air Canada (Rouge)
British Airways
Condor
Copa
InterJet
Korean Air
Norweigian
Sunwing
Virgin
Viva Aerobus
Volaris
WestJet

.....and LAS has seasonal and/or scheduled-charter international service from:
Thomas Cook
Magnicharters
Edelweiss
Air Europa
Air Transat


There's really no other US market, that isn't a hub/focus for an interlining carrier, that has anywhere remotely approaching this amount of int'l service.... especially for a metro with such a comparatively small population.

I'm really not sure what the OP realistically expects.

[Edited 2015-08-11 12:34:14]
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:33 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 9):
As a leisure destination it has little bordering on nothing to offer that is not associated with a big hotel-cum-casinos, all wrapped in extremely loud, tacky, fakeness. While some do like it, for very many outside the US it is the epitome of holiday hell.

We do have Red Rock Canyon, Hoover Dam, and the Grand Canyon within reach. Also I would take a look at this link: http://vegasinc.com/business/real-es...l-travel-has-been-boon-las-vegas-/

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 9):
and facilities that are not really geared towards receiving masses of foreign arrivals.

Totally wrong. In 2012 Terminal 3 was opened with a focus on "mak[ing] Las Vegas more accessible to international travelers as foreign tourism continues to become a bigger part of the area’s economy." http://lasvegassun.com/news/2012/jun...ga=1.39766756.670020598.1439319053
 
blueflyer
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:39 pm

In the late 00s, the city was focusing its efforts on China. They were hoping that the rise of the middle class would lead to a massive increase in Chinese tourists, enough so to supplant Canada as the largest source of foreign visitors within a few years. City officials were obviously aware of the developments in Macau but were optimistic that the lure of international travel would help them compete.

Next, the focus was on Brazil. According to several studies, Las Vegas has very strong brand appeal in Brazil and Brazilians love the "what happens here stays here" slogan. Brazilians spending on average more on their vacations than North Americans or Europeans certainly motivated city officials as well. Sao Paulo is currently the 14th largest market for visitors to Las Vegas.

The Brazilian economy isn't doing all that well right now so I don't know whether Las Vegas is still pursuing that market, or another one.

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 11):
But a Middle Eastern carrier and Sin City don't go hand in hand IMO.

That might be true if we were talking about a flight from Saudi Arabia or Kuwait, but I don't think Emirates would worry. After all, Las Vegas can't be that bad if Dubai World owns half of City Center?

For once, geography is Emirates' biggest problem. Unless they can somehow convince Europeans and most Asians to backtrack on the way to Sin City, they'd need to capture 100% of the current market, or create massive new demand, just to fill a 772 three times a week.

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 4):
Only around 20% of visitors are foreign and a very big number of these are Canadian (not finding the breakdown).

Best I can do is 70% of foreign tourists come from Canada, Mexico or the UK. Toronto - Las Vegas is the US' 26th largest international route, according to Brookings.
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Yflyer
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:10 pm

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 4):
While there are pockets of folks around the world who travel to Las Vegas, it's largely a North American destination. Only around 20% of visitors are foreign and a very big number of these are Canadian (not finding the breakdown).*

I'm not disputing your statistics, but I'm a little surprised by that. Many of my foreign friends who I've met while traveling in other countries seem to consider Las Vegas a "must see" destination when traveling to the US. The part about not arriving by air does seem to hold, though; more often they stop in Vegas for a few days as part of a larger road trip around the Southwest rather than traveling there as their primary destination.
 
FlyBigDeltaJets
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:37 pm

Quoting mattya9 (Thread starter):
Norwegian Air Shittle...

Freudian slip? I keed, I keed.
 
747megatop
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:25 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 15):
There's significant international service to LAS provided by carriers from all over.

This post glosses over the fact that LAS has scheduled international service from:
AeroMexico
Air Canada (Rouge)
British Airways
Condor
Copa
InterJet
Korean Air
Norweigian
Sunwing
Virgin
Viva Aerobus
Volaris
WestJet

.....and LAS has seasonal and/or scheduled-charter international service from:
Thomas Cook
Magnicharters
Edelweiss
Air Europa
Air Transat


There's really no other US market, that isn't a hub/focus for an interlining carrier, that has anywhere remotely approaching this amount of int'l service.... especially for a metro with such a comparatively small population.

I'm really not sure what the OP realistically expects.

Actually impressive compared to let's say DEN or PHX both of which you would imagine would/should have more international service than LAS.
 
continental004
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:48 pm

Based on people I talked to when I visited Australia in the last couple weeks, many foreign tourists (Aussies, Europeans) combine LAS into a larger trip of the West Coast of the United States, if not a nationwide trip. They will land at LAX, and then head to LAS, SFO, and other well-known landmarks like the Grand Canyon, Big Sur, Yosemite, etc. So there may be many foreign tourists not counted in these totals here.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:02 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 9):
As a leisure destination it has little bordering on nothing to offer that is not associated with a big hotel-cum-casinos, all wrapped in extremely loud, tacky, fakeness. While some do like it, for very many outside the US it is the epitome of holiday hell.

While I agree that Las Vegas is fake and the last place in the world I'd spend any time, I strongly disagree with your comment that there is nothing to off other than casinos.

LAS is the closest major airport to some incredibly cool places: Death Valley, Zion, Bryce Canyon, North Rim of Grand Canyon.

I personally get the heck out of putrid Las Vegas as quickly as I can, but it's a jumping off point to some outstanding world class attractions (unless of course you prefer fakeness and tackiness).

Does DL have any plans to make LAS-NRT more than just a few times a year?
 
N1120A
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:22 pm

Quoting continental004 (Reply 21):
Based on people I talked to when I visited Australia in the last couple weeks, many foreign tourists (Aussies, Europeans) combine LAS into a larger trip of the West Coast of the United States, if not a nationwide trip. They will land at LAX, and then head to LAS, SFO, and other well-known landmarks like the Grand Canyon, Big Sur, Yosemite, etc. So there may be many foreign tourists not counted in these totals here.

1) Anecdotal, small sample size.

2) That people visit Vegas on a longer trip doesn't drive long haul traffic.
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Aaron747
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:36 pm

Quoting Yflyer (Reply 18):
Many of my foreign friends who I've met while traveling in other countries seem to consider Las Vegas a "must see" destination when traveling to the US.

Well that's interesting because a lot of Japanese I know would rather go to Macau to see the spectacle there and prefer visiting a major city with things to do if they're going all the way to the Western or Eastern USA.

And there's the problem with anecdotal information in a nutshell.
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LAX772LR
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:37 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 20):
Actually impressive compared to let's say DEN or PHX both of which you would imagine would/should have more international service than LAS.

Why? They're just reliever-hubs primarily focused at addressing the Mountain West, being large int'l gateways was never their mission.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
jetblue1965
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:10 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 25):

Why would you classify DEN as a reliever hub ? It isn't really that close to any other UA hub at all.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:58 am

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 26):
Why would you classify DEN as a reliever hub ? It isn't really that close to any other UA hub at all.

For the exact same reason I would say the same of PHX: it doesn't really serve any major traffic flows that the combination of the airline's Texas, Illinois, and California hubs could not.

Just creates an efficient alternative with a few Mt. region feeder routes.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
jetblue1965
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:08 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 27):

You're mis-using the term. "Reliever hub" implies a larger hub in very close proximity. Examples would be ATL-MEM or DTW-CVG or ORD-STL.

DEN may share some flows with ORD but its functionality is drastically different, and thus shouldn't be mislabeled as such. Additionally, it's not completely dwarfed by ORD the way PHX is by DFW.

PHX, on the other hand, is quite close to LAX today, but since AA PHX has something like 50% more departures than AA LAX, that's not "reliever hub" in the proper sense of the word.

ORD+DFW and ORD+IAH both serve east-west but no one would call those "reliever" of each other.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:13 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 27):

ps : "a few mountain region feeder routes" is a description for SLC, which pales compared to DEN, a 400+ departure hub that has nonstop service to NRT.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:31 am

I think LAS has alot of international service for its location
Alot of domestic legacy flights are packed with connections too remember. Las-ewr/JFK/ord are packed with Europe connections and las-sfo/lax/sea the same for asia
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:57 am

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 28):
You're mis-using the term. "Reliever hub" implies a larger hub in very close proximity.

That's your opinion, not a fact. There's no official definition nor qualification for the term.




Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 29):
ps : "a few mountain region feeder routes" is a description for SLC, which pales compared to DEN, a 400+ departure hub that has nonstop service to NRT.

Please pay attention to context: what does aggregate number of departures (or 1 random destination that SLC actually had before DEN did) have to do with what I just said?

[Edited 2015-08-11 19:01:47]
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
jetblue1965
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:02 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 31):

Again, no point to argue with people who mis-use terms and still barking like a Donald Trump. Feel free to call DEN anything you want.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:09 am

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 32):
Again, no point to argue with people who mis-use terms

You repeating that it's "mis-use" (sic) does not actually make that the case. I've stated my reasons for labeling it as I do.

If you disagree, that's fine, you're entitled to do so... but do realize that that's solely your opinion, and nothing more.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
jetblue1965
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:18 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 33):

Go to Wikipedia there's an entry for "reliever hub". Of course now you'll simply go on to dismiss the legitimacy of Wikipedia as a source.

if one loves being pedantic, there is no official definition for "hub" either, if that makes you feel more intellectually superior.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:30 am

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 34):
Go to Wikipedia

K, you can stop right there...

...then scroll up and review:
Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 31):
There's no official definition nor qualification for the term.

Why you seem to believe that posting a Wikipedia article somehow refutes that, is anyone's guess.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 34):
Of course now you'll simply go on to dismiss the legitimacy of Wikipedia as a source.

Why wouldn't I?
After all: you devalue your own claim, farrrrrrrr better than I ever could, if the depth of your argument is:
Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 34):
Go to Wikipedia


[Edited 2015-08-11 19:41:37]
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
jetblue1965
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:36 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 35):

There's no official definition for the term "hub" either. I think you should stop using that word in any of your posts then.

seriously, trying to prove Obama's Birth certificate to Trump is easier than talking logic and sense into you.

[Edited 2015-08-11 19:38:40]
 
747megatop
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:42 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 25):
Why? They're just reliever-hubs primarily focused at addressing the Mountain West, being large int'l gateways was never their mission

Regardless of what their (DEN/PHX) mission is/was and regardless of what terminology you use (hub/reliever hub/reliever focus city/focus city etc.) DEN/PHX has more businesses and more potential for business traffic than let's say sin city which is more of a gambling/touristy town where folks are trying to get the cheapest deal to fly to. Even for the international tourist the major attractions are first LA, SF Bay area, NY, DC, maybe Florida and then if time and money permit Sin City etc.; and probably Grand Canyon & Yellow Stone may trump Sin City too..who knows?.

I am yet to come accross an international tourist who paid a fortune to just go see Vegas and then happened to throw in a trip to LA/NY/DC/Florida if time & budget permitted. DEN/PHX strikes me as cities that no international tourist would want to go to but has enough businesses and major cosmopolitan metros to sustain some level of International traffic at least on par with LAS and that is the surprising part.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:45 am

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 36):
There's no official definition for the term "hub" either.

Correct, there isn't. Run a search on "Does WN have hubs," and you'll get the full effect of that debate.

What's your point?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
jetblue1965
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:48 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 38):

Good, then don't ever use the word hub, since it's "unofficial" you're not allowed to use it, mr Michael Moore.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:50 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 37):
Even for the international tourist the major attractions are first LA, SF Bay area, NY, DC, maybe Florida and then if time and money permit Sin City etc

Yeah, but that's QLA, QSF, NYC, and WAS.... what's that have to do with PHX/DEN, neither of which are significant international draws for business nor leisure.

So again, why do they deserve more service? As ACTUAL service patterns show, LAS is a far larger int'l market than both of them combined.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:52 am

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 39):
Good, then don't ever use the word hub

Grow up dude, seriously.  
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
N1120A
Posts: 26531
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:54 am

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 34):
Go to Wikipedia there's an entry for "reliever hub". Of course

Wikipedia? Really?

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 26):
Why would you classify DEN as a reliever hub ? It isn't really that close to any other UA hub at all.

Distance doesn't matter, efficiency does. DEN isn't really needed as a hub to serve any population centers more efficiently. Instead, it simply allows more people to connect and relieves traffic from ORD
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747megatop
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:55 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 25):
They're just reliever-hubs primarily focused at addressing the Mountain West,

And one thing; DEN is by no means a reliever hub focused at addressing the Mountain west. DEN is a UA fortress domestic hub. Please get your facts straight before starting an aimless shouting contest by looking at this - http://www.united.com/CMS/Documents/...ute-maps/UAL_NA_Map_2015_08_01.pdf

From the route map actually DEN covers a whole lot of cities domestically east, west, north and south that even so called hub LAX doesn't.

And pls make sure you read this too before you post - http://newsroom.united.com/index.php?s=20306&item=29973

"With more than 53 million
passengers traveling through the airport each year, Denver International Airport is one of the busiest airline hubs in the world’s largest aviation market."



And the best part? UA doesn't even call LAX as a hub LoL - http://newsroom.united.com/fact-sheet-lax


[Edited 2015-08-11 20:00:38]
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:59 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 43):
DEN is a UA fortress domestic hub

Which is another completely meaningless designation, as there's no definitive difference (qualitative or quantitative) between a "hub" or "fortress hub"

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 43):
From the route map actually DEN covers a whole lot of cities domestically east, west, north and south that even so called hub LAX doesn't.

No one claimed otherwise. Again, paying attention to what was ACTUALLY said:
Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 27):
it doesn't really serve any major traffic flows that the combination of the airline's Texas, Illinois, and California hubs could not.
Citing "but but but but, it serves 53million pax!!!!!" or "it serves destinations LAX alone doesn't!" does not refute what I just said.

If you're going to be outraged at a claim, at least try to comprehend the actual claim being made.  Silly

[Edited 2015-08-11 20:01:30]
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
jetblue1965
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Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:00 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 42):

Wikipedia is by no means a perfect source but it's far more informative than all the knowledge you and I know combined. The amount of mis-information perpetuated on this forum as "facts" is far more than the errors contained on wiki.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:04 am

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 45):
The amount of mis-information perpetuated on this forum as "facts" is far more than the errors contained on wiki.

I sincerely doubt that.

But you're welcome to show me that my suspicion is misplaced: numerically substantiate your claim.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
jetblue1965
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RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:05 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 43):

Basically DL has the smallest mountain time zone hub of all the legacies and he's projecting that onto all mountain hubs in an effort to delegitimize the importance of DEN, forgetting that DEN nearly has the same number of departures as DTW.
 
threeifbyair
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Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:44 pm

RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:09 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 20):
Actually impressive compared to let's say DEN or PHX both of which you would imagine would/should have more international service than LAS.

Both metro areas suffer the same problem that LAS does regarding business O&D from the area. Just not enough local business travelers to support lots of international flights. There are far fewer major corporate HQs in any of these cities vs the top 10 metros in the US.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 42):
Distance doesn't matter, efficiency does. DEN isn't really needed as a hub to serve any population centers more efficiently. Instead, it simply allows more people to connect and relieves traffic from ORD

Well, that's kind of spitting hairs. Efficiency is a function of distance. Without DEN, UA would lose a lot of West Coast - Middle America flows that IAH, SFO, and ORD are poorly located to serve. Individually these flows may be modest, but collectively they are some meaningful traffic.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: KLAS... Why Not More International Service?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:10 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 46):

Should I substantiate Obama's birth certificate and global warming to you it while I'm at it ?

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