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Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:56 pm

Welcome to the 127th edition of the Australian Aviation Threads.

Link to part 126 Australian Aviation Thread Part 126 (by EK413 Jul 31 2015 in Civil Aviation)
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Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:05 pm

Copied from the New Zealand thread

Anyone know the status updates on these Eastern and QF Link Q300s as these aircraft havn't been active the last week?

VH-SBB c/n 539 (Mar 2000) EAQ
VH-SBJ c/n 578 (Jun 2002) EAQ
VH-SBT c/n 580 (Feb 2002) QLK
VH-TQE c/n 596 (Jul 2003) EAQ
VH-TQD c/n 598 (Jan 2004) EAQ
VH-TQK c/n 600 (Feb 2004) EAQ
VH-TQL c/n 603 (Jul 2004) EAQ
VH-SBI c/n 605 (Nov 2004) QLK

One or two of these could be getting scheduled maintenance. Jetstar said they will start New Zealand services with five aircraft, so it looks like they will have a few more available.

VH-TQM is the first in the JQ colours. VH-TQE which departed BNE in the direction of TSV on Tuesday looks like being the second.
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Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:44 pm

On the topic of changes to the QF app and website - the website looked like qf002's screenshot for me for a few days but has now gone back to the old design.

No change to the iPhone app that I've noticed. However they did have a few shots in the investor briefing a few days ago showing an IRROPS booking management service within the app - could that be it? I've never had a rebooking-worthy disruption with QF so I can't say if it was there before or not...
 
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Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:47 pm

Summary of what was discussed in last thread

- Will EK eventually upgrade BKK-SYD after announcing a 4th daily A388 DXB-BKK
- VH-OEF operates first SYD-HND service
- SQ SIN-BNE to go from 21 to 24 weekly services between 1st December 2015 & 10 February 2016
- SQ SIN-MEL will go from 28 to 31 weekly services between 11 December to 20 December and 2 January to 17 January 2016 http://airlineroute.net/2015/07/31/sq-bnemel-nw15/
- VH-QPB operates first BNE-NRT service
- EK413 off to New York, discuss about flying on a MD80
- seat selection on QF International, Paying vs waiting 48hrs before
- new pictures of a recently configured QF A330
- CZ skyteam livery A333 makes first appearance in BNE
- Badgery's Creek airport won't have a rail link on initial opening http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviat...il-connection-20150803-giqff3.html
- QF 767 freighters, how many in the fleet and where they fly
- MH CEO claims Australians are some of the toughest customers to convince they are safe to fly on http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviat...ines-ceo-says-20150803-giq26a.html
- Possibility of Air Vanuatu of not returning to MEL
- QF freeing up a domestic A330 to fly international http://www.afr.com/business/transpor...ge-of-tourism-rise-20150803-giqtxl
- QF & VA expand regional fleet while its rivals struggle http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviat...vals-struggle-20150731-giowxu.html
- PER May 2015 passengers down 9.6%, movements down 18.2%
- Indonesia AirAsia X Starting DPS-SYD in October
- Questions on whether VA will exit DPS with increased competition and hand over to TT
- Will VA keep DPS for loyalty reasons
- Unknown A340 flying out of SYD, identified as Hifly A340-300 operating for Adagold
- Jetgo to add more ERJ-145's http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/ne...tgo-australia-to-add-more-erj-145s
- QF happy with forward booking for BNE-NRT http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-kicks...off-doubles-daily-flights-to-japan
- QF to expand its international lounge in BNE http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-kicks...off-doubles-daily-flights-to-japan
- QF51 being retimed due to congestion at BNE
- Gate congestion at international terminals in the mornings at SYD, MEL & BNE
- VH-EBV operates its first international service to CGK
- QF seatmaps at www.qantas.com reflect that 332s with fixed seatback PANASONIC AVOD will be operating INT services with crew rest seat(cabin/flightdeck) requirements
- Does QF need a first class lounge at BNE
- JQ drops tag flights between MEl & SYD for for DPS & HKT flights
- Scoot fares VS JQ fares
- Scoot will operate daily to MEL from 15th December 2015 to 6th January 2016. The extra flights operating on Tuesdays and Wednesday will see Scoot operate the 789 instead of the usual 788 http://airlineroute.net/2015/08/03/tz-mel-dec15/
- A320 range
- VA cuts PER-HKT
- VA to transfer PER-DPS, ADL-DPS, MEL-DPS to TT
- VA to transfer 3 737-800 to TT to operate to DPS
- VA has converted 17 737-800 into 737MAX8 orders. These 17 aircraft were due for delivery over the next 2 years. The will still take delivery of 4 737-800 in 2016 while 3 currently in the fleet will be returned to lessors. http://australianaviation.com.au/201...in-converts-737-800-orders-to-max/
- Borghetti says VA on track for profitable 2015/2016 ??? http://australianaviation.com.au/201...track-for-profitability-in-201516/
- Many of us scratching our heads with VA's strategy for DPS and in general
- BAC uploads document regarding lounge Expansion at international terminal http://www.bne.com.au/corporate/bne-...or-projects/terminal-international
- 9M-MTI operates last KUL-BNE service
- VA to debut new business class seats on A332 from 17th August, first flight SYD-PER http://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-austr...=flipper&utm_campaign=home-flipper
- QF51 (VH-QPF) diverts to BTM as SIN airspace is closed for flyover
- QPC positions from SIN to pick up passengers due to QPF crew times out
- QF36 diverts to DRW due to Crew timing out
- VA to provide flight crew for TT to operate to DPS
- QF 737-800 refurbs
- QF to operate 5th weekly to CGK between 7 December 2015 and 10 January 2016
- QF to go daily PER-SIN between 30 November 2015 to 21 February 2016 http://australianaviation.com.au/201...t-to-asia-new-zealand-over-summer/
- QF to operate BNE-CHC/WLG during December and January
- TT to possible transition into 737MAX8 when it arrives
- QF PER-SIN a matter of time before its daily, should A330's be used?
- VH-OQE returns from maintenance in MNL
- QF to fly A330 on BNE/AKL on 19 December http://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/med...tional-services-over-the-holidays/
- EK'S newest A388 A6-EOM suffers lightning strike on approach to PER
- Picture of JQ's first DH8C http://fnqskies.blogspot.com.au/2015...rs-first-new-zealand-regional.html
- Interesting article regarding QF as the 3rd biggest earner of ancillary airline revenue in the world. The top 2 are Spirit and Jet2.com http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...-game/story-e6frfq80-1227480707563
- Changes to QF mobile website
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Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:07 pm

I noticed on TT's facebook page that they advertising the fares to DPS

PER-DPS from $89 one way
MEL-DPS from $129 one way
ADL-DPS from $129 one way

Currently QZ is offering $119 one way PER-DPS in their sale at the moment

The new Indonesia AirAsia X flight to SYD is one way from $119
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Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:20 pm

My desk top version, both at work and at home, has looked like qf002s for a couple of weeks now. As it is, I actually preferred the old version. I don't find the new layout particularly intuitive.

Quoting XAM2175 (Reply 2):

There currently isn't rebooking capability so that will be a major upgrade. Admittedly it is much less of a deal for Qantas than it is for the US carriers, but QF is well behind the times in mobile technology. Their basic app hasn't changed since it was launched. The United app is phenomenal and one I actually use to manage my travel experience all the way through from booking to collecting my luggage. The Qantas one barely offers anything more than flight status.
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Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:41 pm

Quoting qf789 (Reply 3):
- QF to expand its international lounge in BNE http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-kicks...japan

Following the discussion about the BNE international lounge, QF have announced that the F & J lounges "will be redesigned to create a single lounge experience". It is suggested that the lounge will be larger "The new lounge will increase the amount of space for customers to dine, work and relax". Work is scheduled to start this year, with phased opening 2016-2017.
BNE will also get a domestic Chairman's Lounge, in addition to a new Qantas Club & J lounge.
Qantas to upgrade Brisbane lounge experience

The same release from QF has more info about the 737 refurbs.
* Around half of Qantas’ 67 Boeing 737 aircraft will undergo refurbishments at the Brisbane maintenance facility
* The rest will undergo works in Sydney to fast track the program
* The refurbishment will see wireless Q-Streaming entertainment installed on the 38 remaining aircraft (those without AVOD)
No details on whether the overhead storage will be updated.
 
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Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:16 pm

I have to say, my browsers (IE, Safari, Chrome depending on the machine) are all showing the old style.
 
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Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:45 pm

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 6):
The same release from QF has more info about the 737 refurbs.
* Around half of Qantas’ 67 Boeing 737 aircraft will undergo refurbishments at the Brisbane maintenance facility
* The rest will undergo works in Sydney to fast track the program
* The refurbishment will see wireless Q-Streaming entertainment installed on the 38 remaining aircraft (those without AVOD)
No details on whether the overhead storage will be updated.

In addition to that:

http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviat...sbane-airport-20150813-giyeex.html

As part of the refurbishment process QF will be adding the additional 6 seats they previously talked about. I gather this will happen to the entire 737 fleet and not just the one's that are getting the Q streaming technology?
 
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XAM2175
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Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:51 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 5):
The United app is phenomenal

I've heard that from several people now, actually.

The disruption rebooking facility in the QF app (whether new or well-hidden) is shown on Slide 53 of the investor day briefing here:
https://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/about/investors/investor-day-presentation-2015.pdf
 
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allrite
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Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:04 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 7):
I have to say, my browsers (IE, Safari, Chrome depending on the machine) are all showing the old style.
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 5):
My desk top version, both at work and at home, has looked like qf002s for a couple of weeks now. As it is, I actually preferred the old version. I don't find the new layout particularly intuitive.

Very interesting!

My computer at home last night showed the old Qantas website.
On my work computer I see the new style website if using Chrome, but the old site using IE10 and FF 40.0.2.
But on my phone, in desktop browsing mode, I see the old website.

All three using Chrome, except where specified.

The fact that I get served different views on the same system probably rules out some market segmentation methods, such as geolocation, that I suspected. Very interesting!
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 14, 2015 3:28 am

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 6):
* The refurbishment will see wireless Q-Streaming entertainment installed on the 38 remaining aircraft (those without AVOD)

And it will be BYOD -- I expect the 717s to follow when it comes time to replace the existing devices with QF eventually only offering iPads on the A332s.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 8):
As part of the refurbishment process QF will be adding the additional 6 seats they previously talked about. I gather this will happen to the entire 737 fleet and not just the one's that are getting the Q streaming technology?

The entire fleet will get the extra row of seats -- I presume they will be using ex-A330 (or 767) seats, of which there should be just about enough already fitted with PTVs to cover the 29 frames with AVOD.

Also of interest, this photo from QF which shows 717-style seat coverings in Y and red leather covered millennium J seat in the background (click for higher resolution):

http://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/150814_Qantas_B737_Refurbishment_03-1200x839.jpg
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 14, 2015 3:31 am

Quoting qf789 (Reply 4):
I noticed on TT's facebook page that they advertising the fares to DPS

PER-DPS from $89 one way
MEL-DPS from $129 one way
ADL-DPS from $129 one way

Currently QZ is offering $119 one way PER-DPS in their sale at the moment

The new Indonesia AirAsia X flight to SYD is one way from $119

Still doesn't beat JQ's past 787 to Bali sale which IIRC was:

SYD-DPS: $78 AUD
DPS-SYD: $33 AUD

On the 787!

Please do that sale again JQ LOL...  
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 14, 2015 3:48 am

The entire VH registered B737 fleet will be getting the 6 extra seats and refresh including new seat covers, carpets, curtains etc.

I understand that the 8 Jetconnect ZK registered aircraft will not be getting the 6 extra seats and refresh.

Anyone know more?
 
DeltaB717
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 14, 2015 3:58 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 11):
I presume they will be using ex-A330 (or 767) seats, of which there should be just about enough already fitted with PTVs to cover the 29 frames with AVOD.

How would that work? The A330s are 2-4-2 and the B767s were 2-3-2 so can't really see how those could go in a B737?
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 14, 2015 4:07 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 14):
How would that work?

My understanding was QANTAS were fitting new slimline seats.

....although the linked article does seem to suggest otherwise!
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 14, 2015 4:07 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 14):
How would that work? The A330s are 2-4-2 and the B767s were 2-3-2 so can't really see how those could go in a B737?

Use the centre section from a 767, or the rear Y section of an A330 where it narrows to 2-3-2. It may not work anyway, as 737 seats are usually narrower than 767/A330 seats. I'm not sure if that is the case for QF.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 12):
SYD-DPS: $78 AUD
DPS-SYD: $33 AUD

I think their current sale is pretty good - $218 SYD-DPS-SYD.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 14, 2015 4:11 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 14):
How would that work? The A330s are 2-4-2 and the B767s were 2-3-2 so can't really see how those could go in a B737?

Hmm, good point.

Would it be possible to remove the actual seat cushion/back from their existing frames and bundle them together to create new sets of three with just a new frame? Or even just use their existing seatbacks (with all the PTV stuff already fitted) with new frames/bases?

It would be an involved process, but surely still cheaper than buying brand new seats/PTVs and throwing out perfectly good equipment that is only a couple of years old. QF are definitely trying to do this refurb as cheaply as they can.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:12 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 17):

Sorry, I wasn't trying to say it couldn't be done... more curious than anything. Maybe they can just take the centre rows from the 767s as qfvhoqa suggested? I agree if there's a way to do it then so much the better for saving the $$$$!
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:25 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 18):
Sorry, I wasn't trying to say it couldn't be done... more curious than anything. Maybe they can just take the centre rows from the 767s as qfvhoqa suggested? I agree if there's a way to do it then so much the better for saving the $$$$!

I think the 767 seats were 18" wide whereas the 737 seats can be no more than 17.5". Overall the cost savings would be miniscule in the scheme of things so I think you'll see a new row of seats in each plane.

Love the photo of the QLD Premier and Alan Joyce. Probably the first time either of them has sat in an Economy Class seat for years!!!
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:46 am

Quoting allrite (Reply 10):

Nothing like a piloted rollout  
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:48 pm

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 19):
QLD Premier

Huh, you're right. I thought it was Gladys Berejiklian at first.

And who is the one on the left?
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Thai77w
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:05 pm

That's Jackie Trad, minister for transport and also minister for trade amongst other portfolios. She was parachuted into the seat of South Brisbane after Anna Bligh retired. Career Unionist and now politician.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:53 pm

Quoting thai77w (Reply 22):

Interesting, it would appear that she is the absolute worse kind of politician: spent her entire life in various party management positions (former ALP Assistant State Secretary etc), parachuted into a high profile safe seat, and made a minister (and Minister for Transport, a fairly important portfolio at the state level) within three days of being elected. Less than three years later she is Deputy Premier. Kudos to her for where she got to, but life experience outside the party machinery and some time on the back bench never did anyone any harm.
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81819
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:11 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 18):
I agree if there's a way to do it then so much the better for saving the $$$$!

On average to fly 1 tonne of aircraft structure on narrow body aircraft it costs around $14,000.00 per year in fuel.

As such a lighter slimline seat that allows more seats to be fitted (increase in capacity) into an aircraft could have a relatively short payback.

Numbers for a narrow body seat.

Original seat

Weight: 35 kgs
Seats: 166
Total weight: 5.88 tonne
Cost to fly: $82,320.00

New Slimline Seat

Weight: 32 kgs
Seats: 174
Total weight: 5.632 tonne
Cost to fly: $78,848.00

Fuel saving: $3,472.00
Additional revenues: $351,000.00 (6 seats x 0.75 load factor x 5 turns/day x 6 days x 52 weeks x $50.00 fare)

Cost of seat $2,300.00.

$2,300 x 176 = $404,800.00.

$404,800 / ($3472.00+$351,000.00) = 1.19

Payback = 1 year 2 months.

The additional 6 seats per aircraft equates to an effective 3% increase in capacity. Each additional seat costs $404,800 / 6 = $67,466.00

If we go through our business options and complete a study on adding new aircraft instead of adding new seats we come up with some interesting numbers.

Average price: 737-800 $38 million.
Operational Empty Weight: 36 tonne

CAPEX 38 million / 168 seats = $226,900 per seat.
Flight operations = 36 tonne x $14,000.00 = $504,000.00
Maintenance = +$$$

So a simple analysis of re-configuring existing aircraft with new seats and increased seating shows the following:

CAPEX 3.6 times lower with new seat in existing aircraft option
OPEX - Negligible for new seat in existing aircraft option
ROI - New seat in existing aircraft option - 1.2 years versus typical 12 years for new aircraft option.

In addition to lower CAPEX and OPEX the new seat in existing aircraft option allows for a better business case to refurbish other parts of the aircraft interiors.

As such where a 3% aircraft capacity increase would only result in the purchase of two new 737-800 aircraft (with new seats), a 3% increase in seating would allow 67 existing aircraft to have all of their seats replaced and help support a business case to upgrade other parts of the interiors.

As a customer I would rather fly in 67 existing aircraft with new interiors rather than 69 aircraft with 67 having old interiors and 2 having new.

If we assume an average 75% load factor using the old 166 seat configuration as the bench mark we have the following:

At a 75% load factor, the existing 166 seat configuration of 26 rows, will have 13 rows of seats with 4 passengers and 13 rows with 5 passengers.

For the new 174 seat configuration of 27 rows, 18 rows of seats will have 4 passengers and 9 rows will have 5 passengers.

As such, the newly reconfigured 174 seat aircraft will allow 20 passengers to seat in the more comfortable 4 passengers per row (of six seats) than the old 166 seat configuration.

This is good business for QANTAS. CAPEX is relatively low, it will probably have a positive effect on OPEX, result in higher revenues and the customer experience will be enhanced.

What more could you want?

[Edited 2015-08-14 17:15:28]
 
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777Jet
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:18 am

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 16):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 12):SYD-DPS: $78 AUD
DPS-SYD: $33 AUD

I think their current sale is pretty good - $218 SYD-DPS-SYD.

That is still a pretty good sale!

Even at almost double the previous $111 return  

Nonetheless, I'm glad AirAsiaX has entered this market - let the sale wars continue! May the strongest airlines with the deepest pockets survive! Maybe EK398 could continue on to Australia one day  
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PoleHillSid
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:58 am

How long have SQ been flying their entire fleet into Sydney in one day?

A380, B77W, B773, B772 and A333 (plus 744F) operating today's flights.
 
ZuluAlpha
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:13 am

Quoting PoleHillSid (Reply 26):
How long have SQ been flying their entire fleet into Sydney in one day?

A380, B77W, B773, B772 and A333 (plus 744F) operating today's flights.

Lol I was at the hill today myself and I got to see the 333, the 77W and the SQC 744. It was definitely good to see the variety t
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777Jet
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:49 am

Quoting PoleHillSid (Reply 26):
How long have SQ been flying their entire fleet into Sydney in one day?A380, B77W, B773, B772 and A333 (plus 744F) operating today's flights.

Good observation!  
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bunumuring
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:45 am

Hey guys,
Just driven past sydney airport...
Any ideas on the elaborate marquee being set up on the GA/VIP apron next to VH-XFH?
There are trucks unloading white leather lounges and tables, and screens with the VA logo. Looks elaborate. One side of the large white marquee has the VA logo on it.
Some kind of announcement?
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Bunumuring..
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:03 am

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 29):

VA's new A330 business class will have its first flight tomorrow. Sounds like they're going to have a big media event.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:08 am

Quoting PoleHillSid (Reply 26):
How long have SQ been flying their entire fleet into Sydney in one day?

A380, B77W, B773, B772 and A333 (plus 744F) operating today's flights.

The A333 has been flying to SYD since 30th July 2015, only 3 times a week though.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:58 pm

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 30):

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 29):
VA's new A330 business class will have its first flight tomorrow. Sounds like they're going to have a big media event.

Thanks for that. Makes sense. An elaborate ( and very 'white' and glamorous ) launch with the marquee on the tarmac. Security would be interesting, considering it's all airside!
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:09 am

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 29):
Hey guys,
Just driven past sydney airport...
Any ideas on the elaborate marquee being set up on the GA/VIP apron next to VH-XFH?
There are trucks unloading white leather lounges and tables, and screens with the VA logo. Looks elaborate. One side of the large white marquee has the VA logo on it.
Some kind of announcement?

They have an announcement today, according to some of their social media channels. No idea what.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:22 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 11):
Also of interest, this photo from QF which shows 717-style seat coverings in Y and red leather covered millennium J seat in the background (click for higher resolution):

And this photo from Australian Aviation shows the sidewalls & overheads are remaining as-is:

http://australianaviation.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Qantas_B737_Refurbishment_AlanJoyce_Annastacia-Palaszczuk_14Aug20151.jpg
 
QF175
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:15 am

AusBT has photos of the new Virgin Australia widebody Business Class below:

Photo gallery: Virgin Australia's new A330 business class seats

Woah the new seats look fantastic, love the colour scheme. Well done to the team at VA!

Interesting to see VA has installed a custom-designed Nespresso machine and has rolled out new menus.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:27 am

Quoting QF175 (Reply 35):
AusBT has photos of the new Virgin Australia widebody Business Class below:

Photo gallery: Virgin Australia's new A330 business class seats

Woah the new seats look fantastic, love the colour scheme. Well done to the team at VA!

Interesting to see VA has installed a custom-designed Nespresso machine and has rolled out new menus.

As great as it looks it All seems pretty ridiculous when you consider this is all for domestic flights. 1-2-1 J seats for an aircraft that will never see more than 4 hour flights. We are lucky we have airlines that value the customer experience so highly, but is it the way to go if they want to make money?

Also will the 777 fleet get the seat? And does it still have the original V Australia J seats? I haven't been keeping up with that.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:58 am

Quoting A320fan (Reply 36):
Also will the 777 fleet get the seat? And does it still have the original V Australia J seats? I haven't been keeping up with that.

Yes the 777 fleet is to be refitted with this new seat by the end of the year along with a revised Premium Economy offering.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:01 am

Quoting A320fan (Reply 36):
As great as it looks it All seems pretty ridiculous when you consider this is all for domestic flights. 1-2-1 J seats for an aircraft that will never see more than 4 hour flights.

I agree. Surely, there has to be some financial common sense - eventually?

mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:20 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 38):
As great as it looks it All seems pretty ridiculous when you consider this is all for domestic flights. 1-2-1 J seats for an aircraft that will never see more than 4 hour flights.

I agree. Surely, there has to be some financial common sense - eventually?

mariner

You could say the same thing for what has developed in the US with carriers such as UA, AA and JetBlue all massively ramping up their trans-continental domestic First Class offerings over the past few years.

I assume both QF and VA have done their sums and believe they can make this model work. I would also suspect that both are already looking at upping the quality of their J class products in their 737s in the medium term and would expect VA's first 737MAX's to arrive with a J product well in advance of the current 737 offering of either airline.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:53 am

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 39):
You could say the same thing for what has developed in the US with carriers such as UA, AA and JetBlue all massively ramping up their trans-continental domestic First Class offerings over the past few years.

On very select routes, and with a very much greater population - and arguably generally wealthier - on both coasts.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 39):
I assume both QF and VA have done their sums and believe they can make this model work.

I sure hope they've done those sums, but by reducing the seat count while maintaining roughly the same floor area, surely they have to put the price up? Or - would in a rational world.

I think it's lovely that Aussies get the pampering they some seem to need, but for an unprofitable airline it doesn't make sense to me.

mariner

[Edited 2015-08-16 20:56:19]
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:01 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 40):
I think it's lovely that Aussies get the pampering they some seem to need, but for an unprofitable airline it doesn't make sense to me.

Both QF and VA now have very profitable domestic operations.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:04 am

Quoting A320fan (Reply 36):
As great as it looks it All seems pretty ridiculous when you consider this is all for domestic flights. 1-2-1 J seats for an aircraft that will never see more than 4 hour flights. We are lucky we have airlines that value the customer experience so highly, but is it the way to go if they want to make money?

Also will the 777 fleet get the seat? And does it still have the original V Australia J seats? I haven't been keeping up with that.
Quoting mariner (Reply 38):
agree. Surely, there has to be some financial common sense - eventually?

Hold on a second.

The A330 has been largely replaced by the 738 on Brisbane-Perth services already. These aircraft are only going to be flying from Sydney and Melbourne on flights on which VA does not want to be outclassed for Business Class by Qantas. The whole repositioning exercise has been to try to increase yields, and a 738 with outclassed seats is hardly going to achieve that.

Then also look carefully at the configuration. Yes, it's 1-2-1. But if you compare it with the Virgin Upper Class Suite that became the NZ/AC/DL Business Class offering, the actual seating pitch between rows is vastly reduced because the passenger's legs essentially slot into a hole beneath the side of the seat in front.

So the actual amount of real estate consumed is not that large.

It is going to be installed on the 77W fleet, and I have more worries about that, to be honest. Passengers may well find the layout quite claustrophobic. They have plenty of legroom when lying down but seat pitch is not actually great when upright.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:04 am

We should be careful not to apply our own travel preferences as benchmarks for others. I never cease to be amazed how many tourists are travelling in EK business class in and out of Australia. Presumably, VA is trying to tap into this market.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:11 am

Quoting A320fan (Reply 36):
1-2-1 J seats for an aircraft that will never see more than 4 hour flights.
Quoting mariner (Reply 40):
On very select routes, and with a very much greater population - and arguably generally wealthier - on both coasts.

With the decline in the mining boom I'm not sure the transcontinental runs will be so lucrative. Qantas probably has more options to shift their A330s to international routes where the J product makes more sense. Hemmed in by their partners and a lack of aircraft, can Virgin do the same? It's hard to think of any low hanging fruit that Qantas or an established competitor isn't already flying.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:16 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 38):
I agree. Surely, there has to be some financial common sense - eventually?

At least QF hasa network to deploy these planes outside the domestic market should it not bring enough yield. Where will VA fly these A330s if domestic is not profitable enough?

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 39):
You could say the same thing for what has developed in the US with carriers such as UA, AA and JetBlue all massively ramping up their trans-continental domestic First Class offerings over the past few years.

Or in B6's case, introducing it for the first time.
However note that excepting DL, they are using narrowbodies to fly those routes. This helps to restrict Y capacity to higher yielding fare buckets, with lower yielding fares on the myriad one-stop options.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 39):
I assume both QF and VA have done their sums and believe they can make this model work.

Only because they can reliably bank on the lack of a competitor for the foreseeable future. Were there to be a possible operator not associated with VA/QF we may not see such a significant investment in domestic J.

Quoting mariner (Reply 40):
On very select routes, and with a very much greater population - and arguably generally wealthier - on both coasts.

LA's entertainment industry brings steady premium traffic, I believe SAG requires J travel (or F if no J present) on JFK-LAX for its members.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:24 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 40):
I sure hope they've done those sums, but by reducing the seat count while maintaining roughly the same floor area, surely they have to put the price up? Or - would in a rational world.

VA have a good slice of the WA market so they can leverage that to fill the A330's. I suspect the cost for these seats compared to the ones they replace will be negligible when we consider they only have six aircraft, seat count has only been reduced by seats and the connecting intrastate market is quite large.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:27 am

Quoting allrite (Reply 44):
It's hard to think of any low hanging fruit that Qantas or an established competitor isn't already flying.

It's probably a bit premature because there is no evidence that either airline is operating domestic services unprofitably currently but were VA needing to redeploy the A330s, you'd think Hong Kong would be the obvious candidate.

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 45):
Only because they can reliably bank on the lack of a competitor for the foreseeable future. Were there to be a possible operator not associated with VA/QF we may not see such a significant investment in domestic J.

The chance of another full-service operator entering the Australian domestic market is exactly ZERO. Apart from the fact that the potential candidates (SQ,NZ, EK) are already tightly aligned with one or the other of the existing operators, there are no terminal facilities available for another full-service domestic operator to use. The lack of peak slots at SYD also preclude a serious competitor even trying.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:44 am

Quoting allrite (Reply 44):
Qantas probably has more options to shift their A330s to international routes where the J product makes more sense. Hemmed in by their partners and a lack of aircraft, can Virgin do the same?

The obvious alternatives would be Singapore or Hong Kong.

On the one hand, you can fairly argue that VS did not make SYD-HKG-LHR work. But if, for example, VA ended up using their A330 fleet on SYD-HKG you could assume that they would get decent yields for their premium seating both point-to-point and on through itineraries.

I'm still not sold on virtual networks. They can fill a network gap, but they first hand the revenue over to another airline and then risk handing over the sales lock, stock and barrel.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:57 am

Quoting Nouflyer (Reply 48):
On the one hand, you can fairly argue that VS did not make SYD-HKG-LHR work.

All airlines will tell you it's hard to make money on such long routes with stops along the way that force you into competition with the hub operator at your stopover port.

Quoting Nouflyer (Reply 48):
I'm still not sold on virtual networks. They can fill a network gap, but they first hand the revenue over to another airline and then risk handing over the sales lock, stock and barrel.

End of the line operators with comparatively high operating costs with labour etc have no choice but to resort to virtual networks. They just can't get the scale to operate a profitable all-over network. Ideally VA would operate more significantly into Asia in its own right but with SQ as a foundation shareholder, this is unlikely to happen to any great extent but you are correct in saying the HKG is a prime candidate.
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