Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Sydscott
Posts: 3513
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:58 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 99):
"The ACCC has imposed conditions on the airlines that require them to boost capacity on routes between Australia and China by 21 per cent over the next five years, and report their monthly average fares."

I'm always surprised by the power that the ACCC has.

Well when you're entering into an arrangement with a competitor you want a regulator that has real power to both approve a deal and to enforce the provisions it has imposed. It will be really interesting to see how this goes and what effect it has on QF's current Hong Kong operations. I'd say that QF will now try to push all China connections through the joint venture on routes other than those that are covered by the China Southern codeshare which could reduce pax numbers connecting via HKG and increase them via PVG. That, plus the seasonal increases by MU and the promise of a new route, (BNE-PVG), bodes well for further growth in the China market. I'd also not be surprised to see MU try out OOL at some point down the track.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:25 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 100):
Well when you're entering into an arrangement with a competitor you want a regulator that has real power to both approve a deal and to enforce the provisions it has imposed.

Mayhap, although I think the fairly stringent conditions imposed are a moderately high price to get ACCC approval. It looks - to me - to be fairly grudging approval in the face of intense political pressure.

But what the hey -- it is approved, it's good news.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
777Jet
Posts: 6987
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:26 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 95):
Great news for BNE as it surely means TG will be staying around for some time yet (compared to rumours they would be leaving from earlier in the year)
Quoting thai77w (Reply 97):
The rumours that TG were leaving were just that. It's not going to happen.

Not until they cut more under-performing routes first.
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3513
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:44 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 101):
Mayhap, although I think the fairly stringent conditions imposed are a moderately high price to get ACCC approval. It looks - to me - to be fairly grudging approval in the face of intense political pressure.

The other way to look at it is that even with the conditions and the additional capacity QF & MU still thought they would make more money together out of it than they would under current arrangements. So either way it's good news for them.
 
User avatar
qfvhoqa
Posts: 867
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:50 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:21 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 98):
Another piece falls into place for QF in Asia!

The ACCC's opposition was trivial at best, given it only considered one route rather than the AU-China market as a whole.

Quoting mariner (Reply 99):
boost capacity on routes between Australia and China by 21 per cent over the next five years

I would hazard a guess that this boost will almost entirely come from MU. Though with the 5 year timeframe, we may eventually see MEL-PVG on QF metal too.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 100):
I'd say that QF will now try to push all China connections through the joint venture on routes other than those that are covered by the China Southern codeshare which could reduce pax numbers connecting via HKG and increase them via PVG.

MU actually has quite a few flights ex-HKG to cities other than PVG but the connection times don't mesh with QF's flights to HKG. QF could still codeshare on these flights in preference to interlining to CX/KA if MU were to re-time some departures.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2589
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:16 am

I'm curious to see how the deal with MU compared with the deal with CZ, wasn't the same intent there? Or have MU just shown more interest in developing this relationship than MU? It would be interesting to see QF and MU launch a JQ China, good first mover advantage from a franchise!
 
Thai77w
Posts: 371
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:56 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:37 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 102):

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 95):
Great news for BNE as it surely means TG will be staying around for some time yet (compared to rumours they would be leaving from earlier in the year)
Quoting thai77w (Reply 97):
The rumours that TG were leaving were just that. It's not going to happen.

Not until they cut more under-performing routes first.



Won't happen.
Aircraft types I've been on: PA31,Q300,AT75,AT76,717,733,738,739ER,763,772,77E,773,77W,788,789,744,319,320,332,333,346,359,380
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3513
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:36 am

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 106):
I'm curious to see how the deal with MU compared with the deal with CZ, wasn't the same intent there? Or have MU just shown more interest in developing this relationship than MU? It would be interesting to see QF and MU launch a JQ China, good first mover advantage from a franchise!

There was a great article about the very friendly relationship MU has with CZ. They don't have competing hubs and at the executive level have people that have worked at both airlines. So MU may have actually helped QF and CZ do the codeshare deal they have by facilitating the introductions and relationships.

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 104):
I would hazard a guess that this boost will almost entirely come from MU. Though with the 5 year timeframe, we may eventually see MEL-PVG on QF metal too.

I tend to agree with you.
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2897
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:46 am

Quoting thai77w (Reply 107):
Won't happen.

Don't be so quick to defend, but hope you're right. The 787 could be the "last chance" to improve the BNE scenario or else. I note the crew were recently moved from the costly Stamford Plaza (after about 20 years) to somewhere less chic so that suggests BNE was at some point under the microscope. And from what I've heard from some local TG BNE staff, the route has struggled since it was de-linked from SYD.

Remember BNE is no SYD or MEL and lacks a big enough business class/corporate market to make flights sustainable in the higher yield cabins.

[Edited 2015-08-20 21:57:50]
 
flyjetstar
Posts: 692
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:37 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:52 am

What are your thoughts re this from Geoffrey Thomas.
Has he been drinking the AJ Kool Aid?

Perth could be become the hub for Qantas’s long held ambition of offering non-stop flights from Australia to Europe and the UK which will be possible after the airline ordered the ultra-long range Boeing 787-9 yesterday.

Source.
 
DeltaB717
Posts: 1726
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:49 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:04 am

Quoting flyjetstar (Reply 110):

Not his most well-written piece, very hard to read.

I suppose, technically, he's right... PER 'could' be the hub for that kind of operation. In fairness, so could DRW, for the same reasons. In reality, I wonder if QF doesn't have a few hurdles to jump over besides just their fleet's capability (i.e. EK). I also wonder whether ego would prevent them from looking outside of SYD-LHR or MEL-LHR...
 
User avatar
qfvhoqa
Posts: 867
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:50 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:29 am

Quoting flyjetstar (Reply 110):
What are your thoughts re this from Geoffrey Thomas

It would be odd for Alan Joyce to tell The West Australian different information than he told the reporters at the media presentation.

Quote:
Mr Joyce told The West Australian that the airline would gradually acquire more 787s, the world’s quietest wide-body jet, and they would be used to replace all 747s and the airline’s fleet of 18 A330s and for expansion.

This goes against other reporting of QF's plans - Ben Sandilands claims Joyce would not confirm that the A330 replacements would be 787s:

Quote:
He said it remained the longer term Qantas goal to replace all of its 747s (there are 12 in total at present) and its 27 Airbus A330s (which are currently being refurbished). But he didn’t say, despite being encouraged to do so, that all of those replacements would be with 787s

Who is right?
 
Thai77w
Posts: 371
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:56 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:47 am

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 109):

Quoting thai77w (Reply 107):
Won't happen.

Don't be so quick to defend, but hope you're right. The 787 could be the "last chance" to improve the BNE scenario or else. I note the crew were recently moved from the costly Stamford Plaza (after about 20 years) to somewhere less chic so that suggests BNE was at some point under the microscope. And from what I've heard from some local TG BNE staff, the route has struggled since it was de-linked from SYD.

Remember BNE is no SYD or MEL and lacks a big enough business class/corporate market to make flights sustainable in the higher yield cabins.

[Edited 2015-08-20 21:57:50]

Funny. Premium demand is good, and Y loads healthy. My contacts have no idea how BNE got dragged into it as it was never officially mentioned by TG as a possible cut. As for Stamford Plaza move, the contract was up and you may notice world wide they are moving to cheaper hotels, it's not unique to BNE. There are other reasons why it won't get cut but I won't be going into that.
Aircraft types I've been on: PA31,Q300,AT75,AT76,717,733,738,739ER,763,772,77E,773,77W,788,789,744,319,320,332,333,346,359,380
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 8503
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:50 am

I guess that the article in the West Australian is theoretically correct in that PER could be a European hub, but I have serious doubts. Note the time frame mentioned (next decade) is after the current term (and probably even next term) of the EK alliance but I still have serious doubts. For people from anywhere other than PER it will still be one-stop and at the end of the day most people don't really care where that stop is so long as the connections are conveniently timed. My bigger question mark is why? QF would be giving up a low risk, low cost strategy of piggy backing off EK to assuming the entire risk of operating their own flights, with an inferior network, inferior frequencies, with higher costs, in direct competition with EK and EY (and QR who will presumably be more entrenched in the market by then). It sounds like sheer lunacy to me, and a sure way to put QFi back in the red.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:41 am

There would be airline CEO's around the World almost prepared to give up body parts, to have a QF-style deal with EK. I very much doubt QF has given any overt, or indeed undertaken covert planning, to undermine such a lucrative arrangement. Instead, there are more likely to be moves afoot to extend the term and expand the deal.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 11370
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:05 am

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 111):
Quoting flyjetstar (Reply 110):What are your thoughts re this from Geoffrey Thomas
It would be odd for Alan Joyce to tell The West Australian different information than he told the reporters at the media presentation.

Quote:Mr Joyce told The West Australian that the airline would gradually acquire more 787s, the world’s quietest wide-body jet, and they would be used to replace all 747s and the airline’s fleet of 18 A330s and for expansion.
This goes against other reporting of QF's plans - Ben Sandilands claims Joyce would not confirm that the A330 replacements would be 787s:

Quote:He said it remained the longer term Qantas goal to replace all of its 747s (there are 12 in total at present) and its 27 Airbus A330s (which are currently being refurbished). But he didn’t say, despite being encouraged to do so, that all of those replacements would be with 787s
Who is right?

In an Australian Aviation article yesterday it mentioned the following

Quote: Joyce said the rest of Qantas’s 747s and A330s would eventually be replaced, with the timing of the fleet renewal program dependent on the performance of the airline in the years ahead.


http://australianaviation.com.au/201...exciting-opportunities-for-qantas/

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 113):
I guess that the article in the West Australian is theoretically correct in that PER could be a European hub, but I have serious doubts. Note the time frame mentioned (next decade) is after the current term (and probably even next term) of the EK alliance but I still have serious doubts. For people from anywhere other than PER it will still be one-stop and at the end of the day most people don't really care where that stop is so long as the connections are conveniently timed. My bigger question mark is why? QF would be giving up a low risk, low cost strategy of piggy backing off EK to assuming the entire risk of operating their own flights, with an inferior network, inferior frequencies, with higher costs, in direct competition with EK and EY (and QR who will presumably be more entrenched in the market by then). It sounds like sheer lunacy to me, and a sure way to put QFi back in the red.

In theory PER could be a European hub but I have my doubts as well. Sure it would be nice to fly direct to LHR but I would think it would be not the highest priority for QF. If they did operate a nonstop from PER besides LHR, where would they fly, CDG & FRA, no other destinations jump out. After hearing AJ interview with Ross Greenwood yesterday, AJ was asked about east coast to New York flights. AJ said that while the 787-9 cant make it, its possible that they could fly it using the 777-8X and QF engineers where working with Boeing. If they were to operate the 777-8X I would think that SYD-JFK and SYD-LHR would be ULH flights they would want to operate, maybe even MEL-LHR.

On the EK/QF alliance I think that this should be long term like QF/AA have worked over the years.
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1994
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:50 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 110):
I also wonder whether ego would prevent them from looking outside of SYD-LHR or MEL-LHR...

Ego won't but the commercial reality will. Especially because of this:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 113):
For people from anywhere other than PER it will still be one-stop

If SYD or MEL to LHR worked they probably would do it and charge a fair premium. But it probably doesn't yet. EK probably would be ok with it given they would still get the pax who are not willing to pay that price plus the PER-BNE-ADL etc markets. But it doesn't make sense, yet.

Quoting qf789 (Reply 115):
Quote: Joyce said the rest of Qantas’s 747s and A330s would eventually be replaced, with the timing of the fleet renewal program dependent on the performance of the airline in the years ahead.

I love this. He is keeping the pressure on the group to perform with the carrot being more 789s. Brilliant.
 
User avatar
qfvhoqa
Posts: 867
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:50 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:46 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 113):
My bigger question mark is why?

Joyce just pandering to his audience? There was reportedly a large stink over QF abandoning regular international flying ex-PER. Maybe he's trying to woo back the PER market?

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 113):
It sounds like sheer lunacy to me, and a sure way to put QFi back in the red.

  

Quoting qf789 (Reply 115):
If they were to operate the 777-8X I would think that SYD-JFK and SYD-LHR would be ULH flights they would want to operate

SYD-LHR would be an weak proposition, but there's no way SYD-JFK is large enough to support a non-stop flight. Are there going to be enough pax who will pay a hefty premium to avoid a 1-2 hour stop in DXB/SIN on the way to LHR? Even if there are, QF then jeopardises the viability of one-stop options, as all your premium traffic has taken the non-stop.

On the topic of non-stop Australia-Europe, the longer range A350 that SQ is asking Airbus for could also suit TK. SIN-EWR is further than SYD-IST so anything that Airbus puts up for SQ could be an option for TK. also of note is that TK has no next-generation widebodies on order.
 
Flyingsottsman
Posts: 809
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:32 pm

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:37 am

Quoting flyjetstar (Reply 109):
What are your thoughts re this from Geoffrey Thomas.
Has he been drinking the AJ Kool Aid?

Perth could be become the hub for Qantas’s long held ambition of offering non-stop flights from Australia to Europe and the UK which will be possible after the airline ordered the ultra-long range Boeing 787-9 yesterday.

Source.

I am sure Perth people, would take that with a grain of salt with the way that QF international has treat Perth over the last couple of years. They will believe that when they see a couple of QF jets at the international gates.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:39 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 113):
Note the time frame mentioned (next decade) is after the current term (and probably even next term) of the EK alliance but I still have serious doubts.

Note also that the time frame mentioned (next decade) would likely see a different CEO at Qantas, one who might have very different ideas.

CEO's in Australia are not known for their longevity:

http://gillianfox.com.au/why-does-au...ve-the-worlds-shortest-ceo-tenure/

"Why does Australia have the world’s shortest CEO tenure? Average CEO tenure in Australia is only 4.2 years”

AJ has been CEO of Qantas for 7 years, about the same time as his predecessor. My guess is that AJ will stay for a couple more and then move on. It could even be sooner.

So yes, PER "could" be a European hub but I doubt it would happen under AJ, if it ever happens at all.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
747m8te
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:14 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:54 am

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 118):
I am sure Perth people, would take that with a grain of salt with the way that QF international has treat Perth over the last couple of years.

It is not just QF, VA will cease all international ops out of PER since they are dropping HKT and DPS (and will rely on codeshares through SQ or low cost with TT...much like what QF had done with PER through EK and JQ). Perth can be a tough market for an Aussie based airline. On the Australian side, serving Perth relies on pretty much just the population of Perth as it doesn't have as much local domestic feed that the east coast cities have to support their services up into Asia and beyond (and will continue to struggle with the down turn of the resource sector). Foreign carriers have the advantage here as when people fly through their hubs they can offer a vast selection of connections such as EKs network beyond DXB, CXs beyond HKG or SQs beyond SIN. For QF to fly to these places, HKG, SIN for example are their end points with limited connections through other carriers, and there is no way PER could fill an A330/787 daily just with the majority of pax terminating in HKG for example, CX can as the majority of their passengers are connecting beyond HKG into mainland China, Japan, USA. Sure some would be staying in HKG but in reality it is a fragmented market. Yes QF could probably fill them a few days a week, but on these markets, you really need to target the business market with daily services, so this is where a 737/A320 size aircraft would be right sized daily, but the range isn't there. Curious, would an A321neoLR make it PER-HKG?

However LHR is also a popular market for foreign carriers with connecting pax on the likes of SQ, CX, MH, EY, EK etc, while Asia in general is a tough market for QF from PER since its market is fragmented, whereas LHR is a big market in its own right, and seeing as there is zero competition flying nonstop, If QF could make it viable non stop with a 787 size aircraft, it is one market on QF from PER that could support itself daily, without the need for connections on either end. Because of this it is plausible that we could see QF flying on a route like PER-LHR, before returning to routes like PER-HKG or PER-NRT.

Ultimately out of PER, I see a few prime options for QF:

Either a daily PER-LHR or PER-DXB (at the very least) = 787-9
PER-JNB QF 787-9 = 3-4 x weekly
Year round services PER-AKL = 787-9 (would work well if AA started AKL-LAX/DFW and timed well to connect)
Along side 1-2 x daily PER-SIN = 737-800
Flown on:
DHC8Q200,DHC8Q300,DHC8Q400, EMB145,E170,E175,E190, A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A380, MD80, B712,B733,B734,B737,B738,B743,B744,B744ER,B762,B763,B77W
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 11370
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:43 pm

TT has just taken delivery of their 14th A320, VH-XUH which left Hamburg on Saturday 22/8/2015

VH-EBK has now been refurbished and was ferried from BNE to SIN for painting on Saturday 22/8/2015

http://www.theqantassource.com/forme...ositions-to-singapore-maintenance/

This takes the number of A330's that have been reconfigured to 11 (6 A332's and 5 A333's)

VH-EBS operated its first international flight operating QF81/82 on 22/8/2015
Forum Moderator
 
zkncj
Posts: 3972
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:13 am

Interesting to see MEL claiming that their new T4 was the first terminal in Asia Pacific to go fully self service check-in.

"Melbourne Airport’s new Terminal 4 is the first terminal in the Asia Pacific region to open as a completely
self-service check-in operation." - http://www.t4you.com.au/wp-content/u...7-MelAir-opens-NT4-doors-FINAL.pdf

Interesting claim since NZ introduced fully self-service at AKL domestic back in around 2008, and removed all the check-in counters. To this date they still don't have any check-in counters at AKL domestic, just a couple of service desks.
 
qf002
Posts: 3683
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:25 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 122):
Interesting claim since NZ introduced fully self-service at AKL domestic back in around 2008, and removed all the check-in counters. To this date they still don't have any check-in counters at AKL domestic, just a couple of service desks.

JQ and others still offer counter check-in within the same terminal though, don't they?
 
alatar144
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:46 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:46 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 122):

The key word, which perhaps you may have missed, is 'open'. The claim is indeed interesting, but not for your reason. Melbourne Airport's claim is indeed correct.
QF EK ZL NZ UA TG AF CZ IB BA VY LH DY VA QQ WX. ATR72 CRJ700 E175 F100 738 752 763 744 772 77W A319 A320 A332 A333 A388 SAAB340B DH200 DH300 Q400 RJ85
 
zkncj
Posts: 3972
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:47 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 123):
JQ and others still offer counter check-in within the same terminal though, don't they?

Back in 2008 when NZ introduced the self-check/bag drop, Jetstar was an separate terminal is now joined by an food-court.

Quoting alatar144 (Reply 124):
The key word, which perhaps you may have missed, is 'open'. The claim is indeed interesting, but not for your reason. Melbourne Airport's claim is indeed correct.

True that - but still not as ground breaking as they make it out to be.
 
777ER
Head Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 10124
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:24 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 122):

I wouldn't say back then NZ/JQ had separate terminals as they were still both joined under the same roof
Head Forum Moderator
[email protected]
Flown: 1900D,S340,Q300,AT72-5/6,DC3,CR2/7,E145,E70/75/90,A319/20/21,A332/3,A359,A380,F100,B717,B733/4/8/9,B742/4,B752/3,B763,B772/3, B789
With: NZ,SJ,QF,JQ,EK,VA,AA,UA,DL,FL,AC,FJ,SQ,TG,PR
 
zkncj
Posts: 3972
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:21 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 126):
I wouldn't say back then NZ/JQ had separate terminals as they were still both joined under the same roof

They we're more separated than they are now, e.g. you couldn't get between the two without going outside.

Where as at MEL T1,T2,T3,T4 are all Internally joined together aren't stand-alone
 
TruemanQLD
Posts: 1346
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:09 pm

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:01 am

So should we be expecting an MU BNE-PVG announcement any day now? Didn't they say they would launch it if the alliance was approved?
 
DeltaB717
Posts: 1726
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:49 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:09 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 128):

I'm assuming, based on press releases and media articles being silent on this, that China has approved the JBA???
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3513
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:45 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 129):
Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 128):

I'm assuming, based on press releases and media articles being silent on this, that China has approved the JBA???

The President of China was present at the signing ceremony. In a 1 party state where he has total power I think that's all the regulatory review MU needs from their end.   haha
 
bwwt
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:37 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:21 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 128):
So should we be expecting an MU BNE-PVG announcement any day now? Didn't they say they would launch it if the alliance was approved?

I suppose it depends on how much thought went into it before approval?
 
User avatar
allrite
Posts: 2615
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:28 pm

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:22 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 130):
The President of China was present at the signing ceremony. In a 1 party state where he has total power I think that's all the regulatory review MU needs from their end.   haha

I swear I read somewhere that the appropriate Chinese authority had already approved the deal. According to this older SMH article

Quote:
The Australian and Chinese governments have both asked the regulator to approve the deal to help promote trade and tourism links.
I like artificial banana essence!
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3513
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:25 am

Quoting allrite (Reply 132):
I swear I read somewhere that the appropriate Chinese authority had already approved the deal. According to this older SMH article

He did.  
 
DeltaB717
Posts: 1726
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:49 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:57 am

Thought as much, cheers guys!
 
TruemanQLD
Posts: 1346
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:09 pm

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:54 am

In ports overseas where QF and VA don't have their own handling departments, who do they contract to do it? I noticed a photo of a VA 77W in LAX with a Menzies wheel block, is it the same across most ports or airport-by-airport?
 
747m8te
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:14 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:19 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 135):
In ports overseas where QF and VA don't have their own handling departments, who do they contract to do it? I noticed a photo of a VA 77W in LAX with a Menzies wheel block, is it the same across most ports or airport-by-airport?

It varies, as you don't always have the same contracting company operating around in each port either. Competition between the number of ground handlers vary in each port too, as do the abilities and equipment to handle different aircraft types of the contractors, which can lead to a difference in the level of service they can provide to the airline and cost.

In some ports the airline will use a mix of contractors, one for the passenger handling side and another for ramp handling etc, depending on the capabilities and price offered by the different companies.
Flown on:
DHC8Q200,DHC8Q300,DHC8Q400, EMB145,E170,E175,E190, A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A380, MD80, B712,B733,B734,B737,B738,B743,B744,B744ER,B762,B763,B77W
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 11370
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:06 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 128):
So should we be expecting an MU BNE-PVG announcement any day now? Didn't they say they would launch it if the alliance was approved?

Here you go, PVG-BNE to start in January 2016 no definite date has been confirmed or schedule

http://www.ausbt.com.au/china-easter...=flipper&utm_campaign=home-flipper
Forum Moderator
 
Bluebird191
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:51 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:37 am

Quoting qf789 (Reply 137):
Here you go, PVG-BNE to start in January 2016 no definite date has been confirmed or schedule

It won't be surprising if the flights are redeye southbound to BNE and daylight back to PVG, but it would sure be a good selling point for MU if their flights are daylight southbound and redeye north - would give them a good differentiation to the likes of KE and CZ, particularly the latter. Would allow for some pretty nifty connections to other destinations within China while allowing for a trip/holiday to finish in Shanghai. BNE's international terminal is definitely rather crowded betwen 6.30 and 11 most mornings which makes me wonder if it is in MU's best interest to have an earlier arrival from a red eye or take the option of an evening arrival like EY's recently retimed flights?
 
747m8te
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:14 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:17 am

Quoting Bluebird191 (Reply 138):
It won't be surprising if the flights are redeye southbound to BNE and daylight back to PVG, but it would sure be a good selling point for MU if their flights are daylight southbound and redeye north - would give them a good differentiation to the likes of KE and CZ, particularly the latter.

I agree it would be a good selling point to have the red eye BNE-PVG and day flight PVG-BNE. This could compliment connections to PVG onto QFs flights to HKG which are day time BNE-HKG and red eye HKG-BNE.

If this was the case I wonder if they could start code sharing with QFs flights to HKG (or do they already?)? If they did could be a great selling point for passengers indeed:

From Brisbane:
Day flight BNE-HKG-PVG (QF/MU)
Red eye BNE-PVG (MU)

From Shanghai:
Evening/red eye PVG-HKG-BNE (MU/QF)
Day flight PVG-BNE (MU)

Having said that, if MU want to go in the AM from BNE, I'm curious will BNE let them? what room is there left? as the gates are packed in the AM. while they are starting the concourse expansion soon which will add 5-6 extra gates, that won't be completed for a few years.
Flown on:
DHC8Q200,DHC8Q300,DHC8Q400, EMB145,E170,E175,E190, A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A380, MD80, B712,B733,B734,B737,B738,B743,B744,B744ER,B762,B763,B77W
 
Bluebird191
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:51 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:37 am

Quoting 747m8te (Reply 139):
Having said that, if MU want to go in the AM from BNE, I'm curious will BNE let them? what room is there left? as the gates are packed in the AM. while they are starting the concourse expansion soon which will add 5-6 extra gates, that won't be completed for a few years.

It's chockers there most mornings - I'm a full time student at Brisbane Airport (no prizes for guessing where there lol), and when I get there at 6.45 every weekday morning the gates are already filling rather quickly. By the time classes have started at 7.30 it's amazing how little space is left, if any at all. EK's A380 is parked at one end, JQ's 787 at the other and always next to the QF 747 from the LAX rotation. Thankfully some of the early morning rush have turned around and left (KE, EK, VA, SQ, CX) to make way for the second wave of the morning (SQ, CZ, NZ, TG, CI, BR, etc). It's almost deserted most days when I'm on the bus just before 3, barring those days when BR have their long layover.
 
TruemanQLD
Posts: 1346
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:09 pm

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:47 am

Quoting qf789 (Reply 137):
Here you go, PVG-BNE to start in January 2016 no definite date has been confirmed or schedule

http://www.ausbt.com.au/china-easter...=flipper&utm_campaign=home-flipper

Great news! Do not think there are any gates left for them during peak morning unless they take a remote stand. Can be a similar flight time to CA's SYD-PEK (though not the same on PEK-SYD).
 
User avatar
zkokq
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:44 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:21 am

Quoting Bluebird191 (Reply 140):
It's chockers there most mornings - I'm a full time student at Brisbane Airport (no prizes for guessing where there lol), and when I get there at 6.45 every weekday morning the gates are already filling rather quickly. By the time classes have started at 7.30 it's amazing how little space is left, if any at all. EK's A380 is parked at one end, JQ's 787 at the other and always next to the QF 747 from the LAX rotation. Thankfully some of the early morning rush have turned around and left (KE, EK, VA, SQ, CX) to make way for the second wave of the morning (SQ, CZ, NZ, TG, CI, BR, etc). It's almost deserted most days when I'm on the bus just before 3, barring those days when BR have their long layover.
Quoting Bluebird191 (Reply 140):
Great news! Do not think there are any gates left for them during peak morning unless they take a remote stand. Can be a similar flight time to CA's SYD-PEK (though not the same on PEK-SYD).

We should be seeing aircraft removed from gates and pushed to Logistics, re catered and cleaned to allow more arrivals over the Northern Winter.
 
TN486
Posts: 556
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:08 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:16 pm

In a very relaxed mood tonight as I celebrate my 68th year on this planet, I was looking for a source to confirm my thoughts Kendall airlines (now REX) operated the Challenger jet airliner into DPO when I came across this magnificent site. Hours and hours (time I really don't have at the moment) could be spent reading and researching.

http://www.spiritsofansett.com/

Some very funny stories, as well as a lot of well researched info, and of course plenty of memories.

Still can't come up with a fool proof source though.

Enjoy, cheers.
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
User avatar
allrite
Posts: 2615
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:28 pm

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:48 pm

Quoting TN486 (Reply 143):
I came across this magnificent site. Hours and hours (time I really don't have at the moment) could be spent reading and researching.

http://www.spiritsofansett.com/

Happy birthday!   

When I saw the URL I thought to myself "A website devoted to the drinks cart on Ansett Airlines?"

Then I decided it was time for sleep.
I like artificial banana essence!
 
Gemuser
Posts: 5095
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:22 pm

Quoting allrite (Reply 144):
Then I decided it was time for sleep.

Over due, I'd say!  

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
User avatar
qfvhoqa
Posts: 867
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:50 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:37 pm

Quoting Bluebird191 (Reply 138):
It won't be surprising if the flights are redeye southbound to BNE and daylight back to PVG

That would mirror MU's year round flights for MEL & SYD. Only MU's seasonal SYD/MEL flights are overnight northbound.

Quoting 747m8te (Reply 139):
If this was the case I wonder if they could start code sharing with QFs flights to HKG

MU doesn't codeshare on QF flights to HKG, and QF doesn't codeshare on MU flights beyond HKG.
I'm thinking this may be restricted by the HK-AU & China-AU bilaterals. Australia/China based airlines cannot carry traffic between Australia & China via HKG. It appears that this means they also cannot codeshare via HKG.
 
User avatar
777Jet
Posts: 6987
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:49 pm

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 135):
In ports overseas where QF and VA don't have their own handling departments, who do they contract to do it?

Who ever amongst the capable companies provides the cheapest realistic quote  
Quoting 747m8te (Reply 136):
It varies, as you don't always have the same contracting company operating around in each port either. Competition between the number of ground handlers vary in each port too, as do the abilities and equipment to handle different aircraft types of the contractors, which can lead to a difference in the level of service they can provide to the airline and cost.In some ports the airline will use a mix of contractors, one for the passenger handling side and another for ramp handling etc, depending on the capabilities and price offered by the different companies.

Do you have any idea of how long such contracts typically last for? A few years? Yearly?

I'm curious if airlines typically lock in to such contracts for a longer term for stability, or, typically have shorter term contracts to keep the competition bidding at competitive rates.
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
User avatar
allrite
Posts: 2615
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:28 pm

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:09 am

Fighting words from Air Auckland with the article claiming that the government bailed out, but now profitable, carrier offers:

Quote:
For example, a passenger from Melbourne could fly to Vancouver or, soon, Houston or Buenos Aires via Auckland with Air NZ. With Qantas, those flights would require a Melbourne passenger to make one or two stops along the way.

Meanwhile an Auckland passenger needs to make one stop to get to DFW or SCL (if they fly NZ) and a Christchurch passenger two.  

More seriously:

Quote:
Mr Luxon said the number of Australian members of Air NZ's frequent flyer points program, Airpoints, had grown by 20 per cent over the past year and initial bookings from Australia on the Houston and Buenos Aires routes to be launched in December had exceeded expectations.

"Clearly we are selling very well out of Australia," he said. "We had quite a high mix in our business case there and we are selling above it."

It would be nice to see Qantas flying out of more ports, but it would also be interesting to see how NZ would perform if it faced the same level of international competition out of all their cities.
I like artificial banana essence!
 
DeltaB717
Posts: 1726
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:49 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 127

Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:44 am

Quoting allrite (Reply 148):
Meanwhile an Auckland passenger needs to make one stop to get to DFW or SCL (if they fly NZ) and a Christchurch passenger two.

Not to mention there are, once again, parts of the year during which a MEL pax need only make a single stop enroute to YVR even when not choosing Air NZ. A CHC, ZQN or WLG customer can reach LHR with the same number of stops on QF as on NZ, but via a shorter routing.

Thanks for the laugh, NZ!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos