Houston Aviation Thread - Part 2

FlyingSicilian · Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:03 am

Quoting IAHWorldflyer (Reply 49):
have to say I agree with you. Further, the MUC departure IIRC is around 9:20am, which makes it too early for many connections. I really dislike getting up at 3;30am in Europe to catch some 6:30am flight to MUC to connect back to IAH. For this reason, I love the late departure UA has out of FRA . I think if UA could push back the MUC departure to 10:30 or 11:00 they could pick up some additional connecting traffic for the route.

I fly MUC-IAH often and would also prefer a later departure as on the Westbound I often have to spend the night coming from CTA, but I think the flight does add some destinations and variety for IAH. I would like UA to BRU also but keeping MUC would be a nice touch instead of at its expense.

AVENSAB727 · Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:30 pm

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...s-new-key-long-haul-service-245295
pretty good article,
looks like IAH is still on the upside on 2016.

quote from article:

With much of the new service launching in mid-2015, Intercontinental’s steady growth trajectory should continue into 2016 as the recently launched flights mature. Its strong traffic growth shows the airport is withstanding any fallout from the disruption in the oil sector.

AVENSAB727 · Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:02 pm

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/busi...s-committed-to-Houston-6544440.php
Looks like this is great news for IAH and United, looks like IAH will really benefit as the largest Hub. Hopefully with Munoz, who is said to be following Bethune's example.

Quote:
Noting that Bush Intercontinental Airport is the airline's largest hub and gateway to the southern U.S. and Latin America, Johnson said United continues to invest locally in terminals and is seeking to add new routes, such as flights to Cuba.

KPDX · Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:08 pm

Stopped by IAH this AM.

Giant 100 heavy departing 15L to Luanda, Angola.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7Fg6t5aE_4

toxtethogrady · Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:40 pm

The July passenger numbers for IAH were impressive - traffic up 7% YOY, with international increasing 13.5%. The new flights helped.

LAXdude1023 · Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:01 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 51):
With much of the new service launching in mid-2015, Intercontinental’s steady growth trajectory should continue into 2016 as the recently launched flights mature. Its strong traffic growth shows the airport is withstanding any fallout from the disruption in the oil sector.

This may very well be true in terms of loads. However, fares have fallen off a cliff (especially with the Asian carriers). Singapore, EVA, Korean, and Turkish are all offering sub-$900 fares to anywhere in Southeast Asia.

In business class, many of those fares are lower than $5500.

In 2014, you wouldnt get any of that.

drerx7 · Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:04 pm

Thank God...I'm about to score round trip Houston to Hong Kong for like $680 per person for next month! Also Avensa - we can't see that Houston Chronicle link,

LAXdude1023 · Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:10 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 56):
Thank God...I'm about to score round trip Houston to Hong Kong for like $680 per person for next month! Also Avensa - we can't see that Houston Chronicle link,

Yep. My father in law paid $719 from Houston to Bangkok with only 10 days advance purchase on SQ.

AVENSAB727 · Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:45 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 56):

Oh darn it, I thought that that link could be accessed. Here are some quotes:

Quote 1: Noting that Bush Intercontinental Airport is the airline's largest hub and gateway to the southern U.S. and Latin America, Johnson said United continues to invest locally in terminals and is seeking to add new routes, such as flights to Cuba.

Quote 2: United has since partnered with the city to build a new international terminal at Bush Intercontinental.

The airline began construction in May on a new Terminal C North. Once completed in spring 2017, the old Terminal C North will house the airport's international flights as Terminal D is rebuilt. Diaz described Terminal D as being "in really bad shape" and praised United for its efforts to assist.

Terminal C North is a $244 million project, and Johnson said $179 million of that is invested by United.

thomasphoto60 · Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:51 pm

Just curious, how many flights is NK now running from IAH ? Heard from an airport source (not certain how reliable) that NK is looking at possibly making IAH into another hub or focus city.

AVENSAB727 · Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:52 pm

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 59):

Interesting, isn't IAH already a NK focus city?

hohd · Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:07 pm

Quoting IAHflyer97 (Reply 25):

It could stay for a long time. This may not be considered to be sufficient evidence, but flights IAH to GIG remain wide open as I was trying to book a ticket for this month end. Even for tomorrow there are plenty of seats. May be due to Brazil economy.
I am not even sure if it will remain daily.

drerx7 · Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:57 pm

Regarding Brazil - when I flew IAH-GRU and back from GIG in July...flights were not full but definitely not empty. I saw very few open seats.

Regarding NK - NK is now the #2 carrier at IAH, they have a pretty siginificant operation by NK standards. They really were able to exploit the United merger fiasco and subsequent fortress hub pricing.

toxtethogrady · Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:01 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 60):
Interesting, isn't IAH already a NK focus city?

They're operating 20 flights a day to almost as many destinations. That's pretty focused.

LAXdude1023 · Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:07 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 62):
Regarding Brazil - when I flew IAH-GRU and back from GIG in July...flights were not full but definitely not empty. I saw very few open seats.

I dont think anything UA has from IAH to Latin America is in any kind of danger for the simple reason that IAH is UA's gateway to Latin America. They dont have another hub with the combination of geography and O&D to Latin America. LAX and EWR, for example, have more O&D, but not the geography.

UA certainly isnt getting the fare premiums to GIG that they were two years ago, but the flight certainly isnt in danger of being reduced.

Thats more than can be said for some of the foreign carriers. Im not predicting a significant drawing down, but I do think we will some frequency decreases.

wilcal · Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:12 pm

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 63):

Current timetable has them at 24, but that includes a few seasonsals that are over and MCI which has been killed off :/

Based on fares, MSY is likely right behind it. They are getting great yields on Fridays though! Had a friend pay NK $300 for a Fri-Sun weekend.

I'm a big fan of NK though. This year I've done several roundtrips. LAX, MGA, MCIX2, DEN, and DTW. Adding BWI in a few weeks. Only ran into trouble with MGA-IAH, but it was the first weekend. Planes have been full basically every flight.

I really wish that they would move IAH-FLL super early and FLL-IAH super late for more connections to Caribbean/Central America/South America.

wilcal · Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:16 pm

And in case anyone is wondering where you can connect on Spirit without an overnight required that isn't serviced by a non-stop. Fares are usually not great though to be honest.

via ORD:
RSW
LBE
LGA
PHL
PDX

via ATL:
PHL

Via MCO:
ACY

via FLL:
ACY
BOS
BQN
IAG
LGA
MYR
PBG
PTY

AVENSAB727 · Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:34 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 64):

SQ has seen better days, this one is in most danger of seeing some reduction.

FlyingSicilian · Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:57 am

Quoting wilcal (Reply 66):

via ORD:

PHL

via ATL:
PHL

Also, one can do PHL on Frontier and the fares are pretty good. I have done Frontier r/ts twice in the last few weeks and was surprising pleased with it overall.
I am doing a lot of PHL IAH and UA is still my first choice, and then AA/US, but the price and schedules for Frontier are not bad.

LAXdude1023 · Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:01 pm

With all the talk of international carriers, lets look at the largest domestic markets currently unserved from IAH and HOU. There are a few surprises here. These are measured in passengers each direction (PDEW):

MSN: 58
SYR: 51
DAY: 50
ROC: 37
PVD: 36
MLI: 33
RNO: 32
DRO: 31
GEG: 30
FAT: 30
MDT: 30
LGB: 29
GSO: 29
PWM: 26
FNT: 24
ALB: 24
CAK: 23

Obviously, I dont think its realisitic to expect that UA add service to most of these. But there are a couple that could easily support a daily ERJ. MSN, DAY, GSO, and MLI would be great canidates for serivce.

toxtethogrady · Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:41 pm

MSN, DAY and GSO all had service from UA at one time. RNO, too - with 739's.

jetero · Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:43 pm

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 70):
MSN, DAY and GSO all had service from UA at one time. RNO, too - with 739's.

When was MSN ever served nonstop from IAH?

drerx7 · Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:17 am

RNO was served on and off by CO/UA - the most recent time was with 320; however, I remember at one point there was a 757 on the route in the early/mid 2000s.

PVD has been tried by WN and CO...73G and 735 respectively...it never sticks.
LGB was served by a couple of A300 operators in the early/mid 90s for a very short lived time. IIRC Presidential Airways and/or Grand Airways.
GEG seems like a long thin route and would tie up a couple of units to run it for a long period of time. Unless it was on a IAH-GEG-DEN-Elsewhere run.
DRO and FAT seem like something I could see with -145/170/CR7 equip

76794p · Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:28 am

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 70):

GSO was -145s for the last several years. Before that, it was 735s and MD80s.

IAHWorldflyer · Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:50 pm

RNO I could see happening again, and maybe seasonal service to DRO.

SYR, ROC, ALB, PVD, PWM would all be excellent ways to better utilize the IAD hub and take pressure off EWR. UA really needs to build up some more regional domestic destinations at IAD. Then Houstonians could have an efficient one stop option to those places that didn't involve EWR.
More on the IAH topic, I am hopeful we will see some further up gauge of equipment by UA to cities in the Southeast. BNA, CLT, RDU, RIC, and JAX will hopefully start seeing some mainline service. Those folks aren't as wedded to DL as you would think, but when DL flies them to ATL on an MD88 they can stand up in, versus a UAexpress ERJ, they sometimes chose the bigger plane.

LAXdude1023 · Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:06 pm

Quoting IAHWorldflyer (Reply 74):
BNA, CLT, RDU, RIC, and JAX will hopefully start seeing some mainline service. Those folks aren't as wedded to DL as you would think, but when DL flies them to ATL on an MD88 they can stand up in, versus a UAexpress ERJ, they sometimes chose the bigger plane.

We are getting bigger equipment to CLT, BNA, and RDU. The ERJ has been completely removed from RDU an CLT and replaced with the E170/175. That should have happened long ago.

IAH-BNA is 3x E175, 1x ERJ, and 1x 319. Not a bad mix.

IAH-RIC is 2x ERJ which is a painful ride for that distance.

IAH-JAX is 2x CR7 and 1x ERJ. Not bad for that market given UA's shotty loyalty in Florida.

stxbohn · Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:40 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 69):
GSO: 29

I would happily contribute to that 29/day at United's expense of losing me going to RDU or CLT. I remember 3x 735s on that route 1998ish, then 2x 735 and a midday IAH-GSO-RDU-IAH on a 735. Then 3x ERJ-145s, then 2x, pretty sure they skipped the 1x and went straight to 0. It's sad that I used to despise the loss of mainline to now just hope for a single direct a day to avoid the drive time from CLT or RDU. Think the market lost a lot of thru traffic to Mexico when the textile industry dried up.

Always kinda wonder what would happen if Southwest did a minimum service scenario at GSO a la GSP - 2x BWI, 2x MDW, 2x HOU, 1x LAS.

Did the IAH-RNO a few times. 735s if I remember right and one time on the way back, the trim was not functioning right and the plane flew back at a slower cruise speed and pitched up 5% - made it hell for the FAs to push the beverage carts up and down the aisle.

The new E-175s to/from RDU are very nice. One of my favorite planes now.

IAHWorldflyer · Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:06 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 75):
We are getting bigger equipment to CLT, BNA, and RDU. The ERJ has been completely removed from RDU an CLT and replaced with the E170/175. That should have happened long ago.

I'm aware that UA is removing ERJ's from IAH and replacing with E175's, and I'm happy about that. I didn't realize that CLT and RDU had gone completely ERJ-free. Like you said, it's overdue.

I also noticed the YYZ service has all been upgauged to E175 and CR7 mix. Do you think UA or AC will ever put a mainline plane on that run? Are the PDEW numbers just that small to YYZ?

IAHflyer97 · Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:44 pm

Since the new UA guy came in, he's gone pretty crazy adding routes. What could he do from IAH?

LAXdude1023 · Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:02 pm

Quoting IAHflyer97 (Reply 78):
Since the new UA guy came in, he's gone pretty crazy adding routes. What could he do from IAH?

The question to ask is what holes still exist at IAH. Were in a bit of a slump so we don't really have a rapidly growing market to specific destinations like we did from 2008-2014.

Any routes added in our current state would be to strengthen the hub, not really to accommodate the Houston local market. Because of that, you would need to look at one of two areas:

1) Domestic
2) Additional routes in Latin America (since IAH is the gateway to that region).

I think we can rule out Brazil because the economy is TERRIBLE there right now.

At one time, even if they could have, an additional destination in Venezuela might have made sense. But with oil being what it is and conditions in Venezuela deteriorating by the day, it makes no sense now.

Bolivia is a long shot because the local market is almost entirely made up of Florida, Washington DC, and NYC, but it would be nice since thats the only major country in South America United doesn't serve.

GYE and CLO are both former destinations from IAH. They are the largest in South America from IAH (by O&D) that are not currently served.

I would love to see IAH-CTG or IAH-MDE for my own selfish reasons, but those have a zero percent chance of happening.

One that isn't so off in left field would be IAH-PVG because the market is big, but fares between IAH and Asia are TERRIBLE right now (I never thought Id see the day when DFW-Asia fares were higher than IAH-Asia fares but we've gotten there). This isn't the time when UA will be looking to add anything from here to Asia.

Ive already discussed my theories about the domestic service out of IAH so I leave that for my past posts.

By the way, has anyone else notice the decrease in service to the smaller Mexican stations (DGO, HUX, OAX) and the cancellation to others (TUX, SLX) since UA and CO merged?

LAXdude1023 · Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:01 pm

Im starting to question the longevity of IAH-LOS if the oil industry continues to flounder. Im well aware that the Houston and Dallas areas are home to huge numbers of Nigerians, but VFR typically doesn't sustain a route. IAH-LOS was always about the oil industry.

What would you guys visualize the future of this route being? I hope it hangs around. Im flying it in January.

AVENSAB727 · Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:04 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 80):

I think it will, maybe oil will recover somewhat by then.

TWA772LR · Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:02 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 80):

Is LOS still a 788 or did they up it to a 789? How does cargo perform on the route?

Going to Africa, could ACC and CAI work? ACC is one of the largest cities on the continent and CAI has MS there and is an oil city as well.

And can we please have a permanent YUL route!?

IAHWorldflyer · Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:47 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 80):

What would you guys visualize the future of this route being?

I could see it being cut to 4x/week by next summer if oil stays in the sub $50/bbl region. I have no idea if they would be eligible to obtain 5th freedom rights, but extending the flight onwards to JNB would be interesting. That would probably require 3 frames to run though, lots of resources for maybe not much yield.
If the route exits all together, I'm not sure that UA would keep that frame in Houston. If they wanted to be creative, throw a 789 on EWR-BLR and leverage their experience with India. Possibly start up a summer seasonal IAH-CDG. If they can fill planes in the summer to FCO from 3 different gateways, I think they could sell tickets from May-August to Paris.

wilcal · Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:51 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 80):

Re: LOS

I volunteer at IAH and I've talked to a bunch of people that are connecting to that LOS flight. Mostly YYZ-IAH-LOS but I'm usually in A, and never talk to United connecting passengers really.

Was just looking at connection times and from YYZ it looks pretty good at 16 hours 50 mins. 15hr20min for YYZ-LHR-LOS or 15hr01min for YYZ-ATL-LOS on DL.

LAX about the same too at as little as 15:32 versus 16:55 for DL via ATL.

LAXdude1023 · Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:24 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 82):
And can we please have a permanent YUL route!?

Better yet, one that can go on a 319. The 175 is a bit tight for that distance.

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 81):
I think it will, maybe oil will recover somewhat by then

I must say I do admire your optimism.

Quoting IAHWorldFlyer (Reply 83):
I could see it being cut to 4x/week by next summer if oil stays in the sub $50/bbl region. I have no idea if they would be eligible to obtain 5th freedom rights, but extending the flight onwards to JNB would be interesting. That would probably require 3 frames to run though, lots of resources for maybe not much yield.

I love the idea of UA at JNB, but I dont think it would come from a 3rd party city in Africa. It would probably be nonstop from EWR or JNB if they ever decide to. Running IAH-LOS is to solely cater to the oil industry. I dont see UA trying to turn IAH into an Africa hub when they have NYC and DC in their back pockets. The two cities that, by far, have the largest O&D markets to Africa in the US.

IAHWorldflyer · Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:39 pm

Well, a 1 stop option to JNB from IAH doesn't make IAH an Africa hub in any sense. Honestly, I don't see any American carrier trying to establish a hub to multiple African destinations. Delta tried it to a limited extent a few years back and it went nowhere.
Because Star Alliance partner SAA already serves NYC and DC on their own metal, there's no reason to duplicate it. A 1 stop service through IAH would be a longshot too, but might be better than EWR. But connection wise, it would be 2 stops for anyone on the West coast or in other areas. Like I said, yields would not be that great.

LAXdude1023 · Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:30 pm

Quoting IAHWorldFlyer (Reply 86):
Well, a 1 stop option to JNB from IAH doesn't make IAH an Africa hub in any sense. Honestly, I don't see any American carrier trying to establish a hub to multiple African destinations. Delta tried it to a limited extent a few years back and it went nowhere.
Because Star Alliance partner SAA already serves NYC and DC on their own metal, there's no reason to duplicate it. A 1 stop service through IAH would be a longshot too, but might be better than EWR. But connection wise, it would be 2 stops for anyone on the West coast or in other areas. Like I said, yields would not be that great.

If UA were to try an Africa hub, it would be better out of IAD or EWR though. The only real African destination that makes sense from IAH (on a nonstop basis) is LOS.

UA did try running a few African flights from IAD with no success. As you mention, Africa isnt all its cracked up to be outside of JNB.

toxtethogrady · Fri Oct 23, 2015 4:41 pm

Questions about the viability of Korean Air in Houston appear to have been settled by an announcement in Routesonline that the service will be back to daily next summer, using B777-200s.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/10/23/ke-s16update1/

TWA772LR · Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:01 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 87):
Africa isnt all its cracked up to be outside of JNB.

DL is making it work, then again ATL and JFK are within 757 range of West Africa, and the capacity may be just right to keep out competitors or UA may also be doing that. Also, FWIW, CO/UA announced CAI right before the Arab Spring from EWR, and I'm convinced that it could be successful if they launched that service now.

It's clear that the US3 have their niches, UA in the Pacific, AA to LATAM, and DL to Africa, and all 3 having tons of service to Europe as overlap.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net