Icelandair Annouces KEF-ABZ

Someone83 · Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:35 am

Seems like the new Q400 opens up some new opportunities, with Icelandair today announcing a 4x weekly service between Reykjavik and Aberdeen with the Q400 starting early March next year

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/new-flights-to-iceland-from-aberdeen-announced/

TC957 · Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:39 am

Will this operate from KEF or the downtown Reykjavik airport ? Nothing shown on GDS systems yet.

seansasLCY · Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:41 am

The ABZ press release says KEF.

http://www.aberdeenairport.com/about...-introduces-flights-from-aberdeen/

centrex · Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:45 am

Rather long flight with Q400, 2:50 block. But interesting case. You hardly fly Q400 much further than this but other potential gateways could be in Ireland, Bergen Norway maybe, even Newcastle or Inverness. Aberdeen loosing little red to LHR at the same time. So going via KEF should be a pretty good opportunity for trans-atlantic connections

[email protected] · Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:45 am

KEF, and it'll feed its flights to/from USA/Canada. RKV is very much an airport for domestic flights and flights to Greenland.

TC957 · Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:45 am

Also - could this be a forerunner to FI starting an IAH or DFW route with ABZ connections ?

SCQ83 · Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:54 am

The amount of UK-Reykjavik flights is quite impressive. I count this in Wikipedia:

Aberdeen: FI
Belfast: U2
Birmingham: FI
Bristol: U2
Edinburgh: U2
Glasgow: FI
London-LGW: FI, U2, WW
London-LHR: BA, FI
London-LTN: U2
London-STN: U2
Manchester: FI, U2

DolphinAir747 · Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:57 am

Quoting TC957 (Reply 5):
Also - could this be a forerunner to FI starting an IAH or DFW route with ABZ connections ?

Meh, their recliner J product is a total joke.

Polot · Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:28 pm

Just to be clear, this is Air Iceland, not Icelandair, correct? (although Air Iceland is an Icelandair Group subsidary).

stlgph · Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:29 pm

On the Icelandair route map.

http://www.icelandair.us/information/travel-guide/routemap/

mjoelnir · Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:26 pm

Quoting polot (Reply 8):
Just to be clear, this is Air Iceland, not Icelandair, correct? (although Air Iceland is an Icelandair Group subsidary).

The flight is Icelandair and fits to their route system, but it is operated by Air Iceland. It is different from the flights under the name of Air Iceland as the domestic and Greenland flights are done.

Polot · Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:29 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 10):
The flight is Icelandair and fits to their route system, but it is operated by Air Iceland. It is different from the flights under the name of Air Iceland as the domestic and Greenland flights are done.

Interesting. Will the Q400s be painted in FI's livery versus the Air Iceland one found on the Dash 8-200s and Fokkers?

Tdan · Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:00 pm

Will this be the new Q400 combi? It had better be or else FI is missing out on TONS of fish!

nighthawk · Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:06 pm

Quoting Tdan (Reply 12):
Will this be the new Q400 combi? It had better be or else FI is missing out on TONS of fish!

From where to where? Both Aberdeenshire and Iceland are huge fish producers. I doubt there's any demand to fly fish between them. It'd be like selling sand to the Arabs!

sandyb123 · Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:12 pm

I must admit the idea of flying on a Q400 on an entirely over-water flight does not fill me with joy, as irrational as that is.

Sandyb123

RJNUT · Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:18 pm

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 13):
From where to where? Both Aberdeenshire and Iceland are huge fish producers. I doubt there's any demand to fly fish between them. It'd be like selling sand to the Arabs!

"
you must be new here...FIsh "jokes" are in EVERY Icelandair post!

ipodguy7 · Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:19 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 7):
Meh, their recliner J product is a total joke.

I 100% agree, Flew Saga class from BOS-KEF earlier this month, couldnt get comfortable whatsoever, ended up with a backache the next day. Flew Economy class back from KEF-BOS, and IMHO, FI economy is more comfortable than Saga class, Saga is a complete joke. Hell, even the Service was better in economy than in Saga. If Saga and Economy were the exact same price, I would pick Economy every time. But, I would love to see FI start DFW soon, however I think range would be the issue, also the 100º+ Summers in Dallas might affect performance somewhat.

IADCA · Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:33 pm

Quoting ipodguy7 (Reply 16):
But, I would love to see FI start DFW soon, however I think range would be the issue, also the 100º+ Summers in Dallas might affect performance somewhat.

DFW-KEF is almost exactly the same as PDX-KEF in terms of distance. The market is the issue.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 5):
Also - could this be a forerunner to FI starting an IAH or DFW route with ABZ connections ?

IAH is the one that would make sense in terms of premium demand. It's much more of an oil business center than DFW. I'm not sure why you'd want to connect at Keflavik as opposed to numerous other airports via which there is better frequency and better in-flight product, though.

[Edited 2015-08-17 08:34:14]

330lover · Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:54 pm

Quoting IADCA (Reply 17):
I'm not sure why you'd want to connect at Keflavik

Connecting at KEF as such is very easy. I'd connect there any time.

Quoting IADCA (Reply 17):
as opposed to numerous other airports via which there is better frequency and better in-flight product, though.

If it's daily, no problem for frequency.
Inflight product: I have to agree. long haul business could use a thorough upgrade. On the short European sectors, they are one of the few European airlines with a 'real' business class seat.
Econoomy on these long transatlantic sectors should include meals instead of buy on board menu.

But if you look for very good prices, you could find FI very attractive...

GCT64 · Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:02 pm

Quoting 330lover (Reply 18):
But if you look for very good prices, you could find FI very attractive...

Also attractive for overall trip time: Flying ABZ-KEF-BOS or ABZ-KEF-NYC (and v.v.) is going to be far quicker than any other routing.

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 13):
Quoting Tdan (Reply 12):
Will this be the new Q400 combi? It had better be or else FI is missing out on TONS of fish!
From where to where? Both Aberdeenshire and Iceland are huge fish producers.

= even better, FI could fly fish in both directions not just outbound from KEF

(yes, I am joking)

DolphinAir747 · Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:06 pm

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 19):
Also attractive for overall trip time: Flying ABZ-KEF-BOS or ABZ-KEF-NYC (and v.v.) is going to be far quicker than any other routing.

Not via LHR?

IADCA · Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:29 pm

Quoting 330lover (Reply 18):
Connecting at KEF as such is very easy. I'd connect there any time.

So would I, having done so. The problem is that you've got 1 ABZ frequency competing against 5x daily to AMS, 8x LHR, 3x FRA, 3x CDG, even 2x CPH. All of those airports (possibly except CPH) offer more useful connections to North America, and for many of them, more flights per destination in NA. Most of FI's North America routes are once per day, which is good enough for leisure and other non-time sensitive traffic, but is a niche product versus most everything else.

eaa3 · Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:01 pm

Quoting IADCA (Reply 21):
So would I, having done so. The problem is that you've got 1 ABZ frequency competing against 5x daily to AMS, 8x LHR, 3x FRA, 3x CDG, even 2x CPH. All of those airports (possibly except CPH) offer more useful connections to North America, and for many of them, more flights per destination in NA. Most of FI's North America routes are once per day, which is good enough for leisure and other non-time sensitive traffic, but is a niche product versus most everything else.

Yes, but what if you're going from Aberdeen to Portland. Then your choice is to fly with Icelandair and stop once or connect in a major European capital and then again in some place like Seattle or New York or something. Point is that you would have to connect twice. Icelandair have been offering more and more flights to destinations like these, undeserved destinations, where they become perhaps the best choice.

IADCA · Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:05 pm

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 22):
Yes, but what if you're going from Aberdeen to Portland. Then your choice is to fly with Icelandair and stop once or connect in a major European capital and then again in some place like Seattle or New York or something. Point is that you would have to connect twice. Icelandair have been offering more and more flights to destinations like these, undeserved destinations, where they become perhaps the best choice.

That's true, but how many ABZ-PDX passengers are there? I'm a big fan of the model they're building, which indeed does include some of the type of traffic you're discussing, but it can't really be a significant driver of business unless they get HUGE, meaning their niche would be to single-connect a whole slew of secondary cities in Europe and the US to each other. They're doing some of that already, but not enough to make a big business of yet.

EIDL · Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:10 pm

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 22):
Yes, but what if you're going from Aberdeen to Portland. Then your choice is to fly with Icelandair and stop once or connect in a major European capital and then again in some place like Seattle or New York or something. Point is that you would have to connect twice.

KL-DL offer ABZ-AMS-PDX one stop...

backtracking and the added flight time are problematic but its not a two-stop.

eaa3 · Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:12 pm

Quoting IADCA (Reply 23):
That's true, but how many ABZ-PDX passengers are there? I'm a big fan of the model they're building, which indeed does include some of the type of traffic you're discussing, but it can't really be a significant driver of business unless they get HUGE, meaning their niche would be to single-connect a whole slew of secondary cities in Europe and the US to each other. They're doing some of that already, but not enough to make a big business of yet.

That's true. The trick to a model like this is scale. Imagine if they had 40 destinations in North America and perhaps 50 in Europe. Then the amount of routes where they would be competing on would be 40*50= 2000 routes. This is what Emirates does and the reason why they can fill A380's to so many places. With 40-50 different destinations on either side of the Atlantic, each plane of 150-300 people would only need perhaps 5-10 people going on the exact same route to fill the planes.

They're building scale by growing at 20-30% per year. The trick, I think, to this hub is that you can use smaller aircraft, such as the B757 or A321LR, to destinations in the US. Therefore, you could fly into a place that would not support the traffic of a widebody aircraft but could support an A321LR with 50 connecting possibilities.

And with this kind of network you can also start filling wide-bodies on may routes.

Quoting EIDL (Reply 24):
KL-DL offer ABZ-AMS-PDX one stop...

Right. Didn't actually check Wink

However, my point is that there are few other choices.

[Edited 2015-08-17 10:13:17]

Someone83 · Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:14 pm

Quoting IADCA (Reply 21):

Quoting 330lover (Reply 18):
Connecting at KEF as such is very easy. I'd connect there any time.

So would I, having done so. The problem is that you've got 1 ABZ frequency competing against 5x daily to AMS, 8x LHR, 3x FRA, 3x CDG, even 2x CPH. All of those airports (possibly except CPH) offer more useful connections to North America, and for many of them, more flights per destination in NA. Most of FI's North America routes are once per day, which is good enough for leisure and other non-time sensitive traffic, but is a niche product versus most everything else.

While they probably loose some business traffic due to it, it seems to work from a lot of other destinations. While not my choice for a TATL option, FI seems to be doing great at the moment having found a niche. They are growing steady and are posting healthy finansial numbers

330lover · Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:44 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 26):
While not my choice for a TATL option, FI seems to be doing great at the moment having found a niche. They are growing steady and are posting healthy finansial numbers

Couldn't agree more!
Let me make myself clear: I really like the airline (and their livery

), and was always satisfied (though only flew European routes).
Just imagine how they could be doing when they would upgrade their hard product (esp. business).

Wish them all the best!

styles9002 · Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:27 pm

Nice to see additional expansion by FI.

Each additional destination on the route map creates extra value to existing destinations at the other end.

Is the next layer of strategy to deploy Q400s ex-KEF? If so, will we see FI add DUB?

skipness1E · Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:58 pm

Flugleidir used to fly GLA-???-REK on a Fokker 50, FI284/285 once a week on Saturdays. Where was the intermediate stop? Anyone recall?

edina · Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:02 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 29):
Flugleidir used to fly GLA-???-REK on a Fokker 50, FI284/285 once a week on Saturdays. Where was the intermediate stop? Anyone recall?

Vagar in the Faroes rings a bell......

AndyEastMids · Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:15 pm

Really strange...

1. There's no business class being offered on the ABZ sectors, so any business travellers will have to travel part economy, part business
2. The three Q400s were meant to be replacing five F50s, with network optimisation and in some cases capacity reductions covering for the smaller fleet. But it seems like it'll be a stretch to squeeze a six hour round trip to ABZ into the schedule too for the three Q400s too
3. What happens with the Q400 on the other three days
4. Air Iceland primarily operate out of RKV, not KEF. Are they going to hop the Q400 between the two four times a week to cover the ABZ sectors? If not, what is the KEF based Q400 going to do for the rest of the time - there is little do and for domestic flights out of KEF as its too far from the city and the airport isn't really set up for domestic flights

LH121GLA · Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:25 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 29):

Flugleidir used to fly GLA-???-REK on a Fokker 50, FI284/285 once a week on Saturdays. Where was the intermediate stop? Anyone recall?

Akureyri?

Armodeen · Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:36 pm

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 14):
I must admit the idea of flying on a Q400 on an entirely over-water flight does not fill me with joy, as irrational as that is

I think it's a comfort issue more than anything for me...almost 3 hours on a dash is not going to be amazing however you cut it.

CRJ900 · Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:48 pm

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 14):
I must admit the idea of flying on a Q400 on an entirely over-water flight does not fill me with joy, as irrational as that is.

Vagar airport (FAE) on Faroe Islands, Egilsstadir airport (HFN) and Hornafjordur airport (EGS) are all available enroute if anything should get hairy.

I think it's pretty cool that the Q400 finally gets to strut its stuff, that aircraft is more capable than most of us think. But I don't think they will have 78 passengers onboard for such a long flight with potentially strong winds, maybe 65-70.

mjoelnir · Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:48 pm

Quoting AndyEastMids (Reply 31):
2. The three Q400s were meant to be replacing five F50s, with network optimisation and in some cases capacity reductions covering for the smaller fleet. But it seems like it'll be a stretch to squeeze a six hour round trip to ABZ into the schedule too for the three Q400s too

Air Iceland also uses the Q200 on domestic flights to IFJ replacing the F50 there. On other routes we could see a frequency reduction as the Q400 carries 78 pax compared to the 50 on the F50.

Quoting AndyEastMids (Reply 31):
3. What happens with the Q400 on the other three days

There are some other destinations like FAE.

Quoting AndyEastMids (Reply 31):
4. Air Iceland primarily operate out of RKV, not KEF. Are they going to hop the Q400 between the two four times a week to cover the ABZ sectors? If not, what is the KEF based Q400 going to do for the rest of the time - there is little do and for domestic flights out of KEF as its too far from the city and the airport isn't really set up for domestic flights

Air Iceland did KEF to AEY and from Oct. the 26th they fly also to FAE from KEF.

If KEF-ABZ works well, we could see more destinations added both in Scotland and Norway. And there should be no problem to add a few more of the Q400.

rbavfan · Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:57 pm

Quoting centrex (Reply 3):
Rather long flight with Q400, 2:50 block. But interesting case. You hardly fly Q400 much further than this

You realize the Q400 is not an ATR. it has a range of 1362nm. How do you see this as hardy able to fly much farther than the 715nm route?

rbavfan · Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:03 pm

Quoting IADCA (Reply 17):
DFW-KEF is almost exactly the same as PDX-KEF in terms of distance. The market is the issue.

PDX does not have the 100 degree weather during the summer that will affect range/payload vs DFW.

DolphinAir747 · Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:09 pm

Quoting 330lover (Reply 27):
Just imagine how they could be doing when they would upgrade their hard product (esp. business).

Frankly it's possible that FI and CM, who has a nearly identical business model, would be better off in an all-Y configuration since they seem uninterested in carrying high-yield business pax.

frostyj · Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:18 pm

I'm not sure I would be willing to fly in a turboprop the whole from Iceland to Aberdeen.

mjoelnir · Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:06 pm

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 34):
I think it's pretty cool that the Q400 finally gets to strut its stuff, that aircraft is more capable than most of us think. But I don't think they will have 78 passengers onboard for such a long flight with potentially strong winds, maybe 65-70.

There should be not any problem taking a full load on that distance of 724 nm.
Range of a fully loaded Q400 is over 1300 nm.

Quoting frostyj (Reply 39):
I'm not sure I would be willing to fly in a turboprop the whole from Iceland to Aberdeen.

Why? The Q400 is a quiet frame, active noise suppression, and is quite a bit faster than a ATR, hardly less comfortable than a CRJ.

PlymSpotter · Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:07 am

To put things in perspective, BE operate INV-JER with the Q400 which is 581 miles and blocked at 2h 10m. This is 'only' 250 miles further, and still isn't longer than some of the flights operated by airBaltic - the likes of RIX-SIP.

Dan

Viscount724 · Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:20 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 20):
Quoting GCT64 (Reply 19):Also attractive for overall trip time: Flying ABZ-KEF-BOS or ABZ-KEF-NYC (and v.v.) is going to be far quicker than any other routing.
Not via LHR?

It's about 400 miles shorter via KEF than via LHR.

styles9002 · Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:29 am

This is an interesting move by FI with the Q400s. It certainly opens up some new northern European markets for them to link with KEF and onwards to North America.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 42):
It's about 400 miles shorter via KEF than via LHR.

ABZ-KEF-BOS is also about 50 miles shorter than ABZ-DUB-BOS.

GCT64 · Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:10 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 42):

It's about 400 miles shorter via KEF than via LHR.

and the connecting experience at KEF is quicker, more reliable with short connection times and easier.

Quoting Reply 43):
ABZ-KEF-BOS is also about 50 miles shorter than ABZ-DUB-BOS.

From the UK regions, I think DUB (EI) and KEF (FI) are going to be fighting it out as the best places to connect TATL (as well as increasing numbers of direct EU hub-bypassing flights using A321LR etc.). The days of backtracking to AMS, FRA or CDG to travel UK-US/Canada must be doomed.

LumpiLump · Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:08 am

If i remember correct air iceland did RKV-KUS in Greenland with a Swearingen Merlin in the late 2000s, thats 1,5 hours over northern sea, for sure thats more worse then 3,5 hours in the Q400 to ABZ.

And i agree with "ipodguy7" the saga class is really much overrated, i flew FRA-KEF-FRA it feels like a very very early LCC business class model, more like a premium economy nowadays or maybe leisure carrier premium class product. For the european legs of FI which are mostly less then 3 hours the business class seams to be ok, but in case you just stop over in KEF and continue to North America with another leg of approx. 5-7 hours (depending east or west coast) it seams little cramped to me.

Anyways has someone tried the economy comfort class of FI ? it looks similar to the business class which is used for intereurope flights with blocked middle seat for extra comfort.

330lover · Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:37 am

Quoting LumpiLump (Reply 45):
Anyways has someone tried the economy comfort class of FI ? it looks similar to the business class which is used for intereurope flights with blocked middle seat for extra comfort.

I did, but was lucky both ways: as business bookings were very low, comfort class was moved to rows 4 & 5, using business seats.
Otherwise, it's indeed like many airlines's Euro business class: empty middle seat. And you can choose snacks and alcoholic drinks from the onboard menu for free.
On the ground, among others, you can use the lounge in KEF and you have priority boarding.

RJNUT · Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:43 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 41):
To put things in perspective, BE operate INV-JER with

speaking of INV could they support a 2 or 3 x weekly flight to KEF with the Q400? maybe just seasonal?

styles9002 · Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:48 pm

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 47):
speaking of INV could they support a 2 or 3 x weekly flight to KEF with the Q400? maybe just seasonal?

I'm sure FI are looking at all possible routes for the Q400 ex-KEF to add to their network.

mjoelnir · Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:04 pm

Quoting LumpiLump (Reply 45):
If i remember correct air iceland did RKV-KUS in Greenland with a Swearingen Merlin in the late 2000s, thats 1,5 hours over northern sea, for sure thats more worse then 3,5 hours in the Q400 to ABZ.

Air Iceland has not operated any Swearing Merlin. Air Iceland has operated F50 and than added first the Q100 and changed to Q200 for Greenland flights.
Flugfelagæið Nordurlands and later Norlandair have been flying Twin Otters for Air Iceland on Greenland routes.
Flugfelagið Ernir used Swearing Metro in Iceland. They are using BAE Jetstream today.

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