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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:37 am

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 148):

And engine failure + fire on a Boeing 777 today, after we were told it was impossibility.

Are you really this dense or is this just an attempt at an epic troll job?

What ridiculousness. Makes absolutely zero sense to connect the BA incident today to MH370.

1. No one would ever have said an airplane can't catch on fire. It's one of the major dangers in aviation. But in no way does an engine failure or fire fit into the story of MH370. None.

2. Obviously fires behave differently in flight. The fire spread with BA today as it sat idly on the ground. It does not behave like that at 600 mph.

Please think before you troll
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:48 am

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 150):
But in no way does an engine failure or fire fit into the story of MH370.

Especially during takeoff  

We at least know MH370 probably had 40mins of routine flight after takeoff, then another 7 or so hours of non-routine flight  

Thanks to ACARS, Inmarsat, various radars and whatever else for that info  
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747megatop
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:28 am

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 150):
Are you really this dense or is this just an attempt at an epic troll job?

Unamimous vote for the latter without a doubt.
 
747megatop
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:32 am

Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 148):
after we were told it was impossibility.

Who told that engine failure + fire on any aircraft let alone a 777 was an impossbility? If it was impossible then aircraft engine fire protection systems wouldn't be there in the first place...unless you are telling me that engine & aircraft manufacturers are designing for an "impossible event"....an impossible event like engines having to perform under water  

Highly Unlikely? Yes (only 1 incident in 20 years of 777 service). Impossible? NO, very much possible.

[Edited 2015-09-09 19:35:14]
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:53 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 152):
Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 150):Are you really this dense or is this just an attempt at an epic troll job?

Unamimous vote for the latter without a doubt.

Sadly, it could also be a bit of the former  
Quoting 747megatop (Reply 153):
Quoting jcxroberts (Reply 148):after we were told it was impossibility.

Who told that engine failure + fire on any aircraft let alone a 777 was an impossbility?

I'd also like to know exactly who said that, but I'm not expecting an answer  
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Pohakuloa
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:20 pm

Said person is probably a subscriber to the "engine fire" theory of MH370. With all we have learned in the last 18 months (or sooner) it may have become quickly evident that an engine fire may have been a statistically impossible for the conditions surrounding MH370. This individual may have been shut down hard in discussions involving this possibility and then may have erroneously taken this to mean that it is impossible in all 777 aircraft engines as a general given. Now with the BA LAS incident, this person wants to prove their naysayers wrong through an erroneous conclusion held within them self as a means to justify that their own personal philosophy about MH370 could still be plausible.... in their own mind.

Respectfully,
Pohakuloa
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oxymorph
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:20 pm

Quoting Pohakuloa (Reply 155):
this person wants to prove their naysayers wrong through an erroneous conclusion held within them self as a means to justify that their own personal philosophy about MH370 could still be plausible.... in their own mind.

Perhaps. Or. said person has an agenda resembling many others here: inject anything that may work to divert attention from the obvious--A deliberate, purposeful, nefarious mass-murdering pilot.

Sorry folks, but there is no getting around this sobering fact. That said, there's not much to be done about it either.
 
abba
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:20 pm

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 156):
Perhaps. Or. said person has an agenda resembling many others here: inject anything that may work to divert attention from the obvious--A deliberate, purposeful, nefarious mass-murdering pilot.

This is NOT obvious. And it doesn't become more obvious by being repeated again and again and again.
 
UALWN
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:28 pm

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 156):
said person has an agenda resembling many others here: inject anything that may work to divert attention from the obvious--A deliberate, purposeful, nefarious mass-murdering pilot.

Says somebody without an agenda.  
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gzm
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:36 pm

MH 370 seems to me more mysterious than you think. The plane goes north for some reason. What I do not understand is its turning south. The way I see it, from my point of view, it should have continued north....
Let's say that the pilot has shut down one engine. Could that explain why some people believe that MH 370 did not end so far south as it was originally thought? It would have flown at a reduced speed and still have remained aloft for 7 hours, or not?

[Edited 2015-09-10 11:36:28]
 
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PW100
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:26 pm

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 156):
Perhaps. Or. said person has an agenda resembling many others here: inject anything that may work to divert attention from the obvious--A deliberate, purposeful, nefarious mass-murdering pilot

It's sad that people who don't want to be chained to certain conclusion and prefer to keep an open mind for all options, are labeled as having an agenda.

Thankfully, your choice of words here though leave nothing to the imagination of who here really has an agenda.
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lancelot07
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:21 am

Quoting abba (Reply 157):
This is NOT obvious. And it doesn't become more obvious by being repeated again and again and again.

On the contrary, with each repetition it becomes more and more obvious that a certain other member has an agenda of libel and slender against the unlucky crew of MH 370. And this makes deliberate murder by one of the 2 pilots more and more unlikely. 
Although i think an engine fire as root cause for MH370 is not very likely, there are a number of other possibilities of fire and smoke or fumes.
 
747megatop
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:06 am

Quoting gzm (Reply 159):
What I do not understand is its turning south.

You are not alone my friend. There are 7 billion of us fellow earthlings who don't understand it  . And...i highly doubt we will ever understand because IF (and that is a very big IF) we find the CVR ...it would 100% have no recording of what happened at the point where it went dark. From the Wreckage & FDR (again a big IF they are recovered and IF the FDR is readable) they can only rule out (or rule in) mechanical trouble and plot the course of the aircraft along with determine what flight control inputs were provided (if any) till the flight ended.

But of course, there are always surprises in life and the surprise (that everyone should hope for) is that one of the flight crew were alive till the very end and left a recording of the entire sequence of events when the flight was ending knowing that the CVR would have erased the initial part of the flght.
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:31 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 162):
From the Wreckage & FDR (again a big IF they are recovered and IF the FDR is readable) they can only rule out (or rule in) mechanical trouble and plot the course of the aircraft along with determine what flight control inputs were provided (if any) till the flight ended.

This is a common misconception amongst those who are not accident investigators or are unable to interpret FDR plots. The CVR only tells you what those on the flight deck were saying, aircraft generated warnings, and audible clicks (which are usually ambiguous until associated with the FDR plots). It tells you little or nothing about control inputs, what the aircraft was doing, and aircraft systems (e.g. whether these were cosistent or not with what the crew were saying).

For example, it was the FDR that led to the conclusion that MS990 was an FO suicide. The CVR contained an invocation to Allah, which could have been just as consistent with an impending accident. It was the FDR that recorded opposing forces on the control column by the FO and PIC, and the fact that the FO was pushing nose down.

Similarly, those who keep on repeating that the FO on AF447 held the stick fully back continuously do not understand that the FDR shows that this is absolutely untrue.

Ideally, investigators will have access to both the CVR and FDR but if given a choice, every investigator I know will opt for the FDR.
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airtechy
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:01 pm

I'm not sure we will get anything off the FDR .. even if found. Can't you turn it off from the flight deck? Seems like if someone was smart enough to turn off the transponder.....and other stuff....they would also kill the FDR. Or maybe the idea was only to "avoid immediate detection".
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:12 pm

Quoting airtechy (Reply 164):
Can't you turn it off from the flight deck?

The FDR can't be turned off from the cockpit in a 777.
 
airtechy
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:54 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 165):

The FDR can't be turned off from the cockpit in a 777.

OK. Scratch that. I do seem to recall a case where the CVR/DVR was turned off....once the plane was on the ground...to preserve the evidence of an flight event. That was probably the CVR which has a shorter record time and a different bird.
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:45 am

For the record, I think the "one of the pilots did it" theory is the (far) most likely scenario.

I also believe that the above scenario and all others are speculation and we won't find out the real situation until we find the plane. Which I believe we will eventually find. Now that the "aliens took it" theory has been disproved by the flaperon   (Unless, of course, the aliens had enough flaperons already.)

But. The Last Vegas incident caused me to think about an unlikely theory that I cannot recall has been discussed. Wanted to get your reaction if it is possible.

1. Uncontained engine malfunction takes out one engine
2. Shrapnel damages the airplane, taking out some power circuits or comms
3. Shrapnel also causes loss of pressurisation
4. For technical or human reasons, pressurisation issue is not properly dealt with, cabin/pilots loses useful consciousness
5. Pilots continue to make some efforts in reduced state of consciousness for a while, initiating or programming the various turns, attempting to re-power the comms
6. Finally, the pilots succumb, everybody is unconscious, and plane flies to where it did

Question 1: what is the timeline with respect to the pilot's "good night" response to the ATC vs. the loss of the transponder and other communications?

Question 2: if a 777 loses an engine, could it still fly the length of time and distance the satellite communications indicate it did?
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:40 pm

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 167):
Question 2: if a 777 loses an engine, could it still fly the length of time and distance the satellite communications indicate it did?

Loss of an engine would force it to a much lower altitude so it wouldn't be able to fly the same distance/time.
 
747megatop
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:05 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 163):
This is a common misconception

What is the misconception? I stated that FDR is the one that will tell us what pilot control inputs were provided and CVR is the one that can tell us what was told in the cockpit, aren't we on the same page here?
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:13 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 169):
aren't we on the same page here?

Re-read yor post and my response - carefully.
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solarflyer22
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:43 pm

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 167):
But. The Last Vegas incident caused me to think about an unlikely theory that I cannot recall has been discussed. Wanted to get your reaction if it is possible.

You know this is exactly the same thing I thought but I don't know if anyone has confirmed the engine type on the aircraft. It apparently does not apply to RR powered models.

I could certainly see an engine failure puncturing the cabin and leading to a decompression. The problem is that there is no ACARS data or radio call from the cockpit to support it. The other poster mentioned the fuel burn and flight profile but I consider the radar estimated altitude to be unreliable. I think there were reports of the plane having reached service ceiling (something like 41,000 ft) which is not possible on one engine but again I consider the radar data to be unreliable.

It's feasible IMO. Very sudden decompression at high altitude due to engine failure could explain alot of things. The shrapnel from the BA flight absolutely went everywhere and caused more extensive damage than I thought possible. Its caused by weld deep inside the engine that might fail. Its not a ordinary fan blade loss.
 
747megatop
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:02 am

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 170):
Re-read yor post and my response - carefully

Sorry, i am at a loss. Will need you to point out more clearly. I read your posts and my posts. Not sure what the misconception. I agree that CVR does not help determine control inputs and records only sounds and voice from the cockpit (which in MH 370's case would not have the recordings from the moment of radar disappearance) and FDR would have all the information about flight path, speed etc. etc. + control inputs. Obviously as mentioned by you (and not explicitly called out in my post since i assumed it is common sense) that the 2 need to be viewed in context together to paint the entire picture. What will be a disadvantage to the MH 370 investigators if CVR was recovered is that it would have only the final 2.5 hours of the flight. So, again, where (or what is) the misconception?
 
holzmann
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:06 pm

CNN reporting possible additional debris sighting...

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/15/africa/mh370-investigation/index.html
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washingtonflyer
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:35 am

Interesting to see what develops out of this most recent report.
 
namezero111111
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:42 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 163):
For example, it was the FDR that led to the conclusion that MS990 was an FO suicide.

To be fair here, the NTSB was never conclude suicide. They stated that the probable cause was the FO's control inputs for undetermined reasons.
 
WarrenPlatts
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:42 am

Fugro search to revisit some 30 sites....

Quote:
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau announced yesterday that the Fugro Discovery – one of two vessels currently involved in the official search – has been tasked with re-examining “classification two contacts.”

Classification two contacts are described as locations or objects of more interest than classification three contacts but still unlikely to be significant to the search.

Classification one contacts warrant immediate investigation.

“During this swing, Fugro Discovery will resurvey several Classification 2 contacts identified previously during the underwater search,” the statement said.



The West Australian


[Edited 2015-09-24 04:48:05]
 
motif1
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:26 pm

Quoting holzmann (Reply 173):
CNN reporting …

Has there been any news on the possible debris spotted?
Not only is this incomprehensible but the ink is ugly and the paper is from the wrong kind of tree
 
solarflyer22
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:25 pm

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 167):
Question 2: if a 777 loses an engine, could it still fly the length of time and distance the satellite communications indicate it did?

Seemed plausible to me but if you believe the existing flight data (potentially a big if) then it's not feasible on one engine. The plane is running in reduced mode so it cannot fly as far or as high on the one remaining engine. The one remaining engine running by itself doesn't necessarily have access to all the remaining fuel onboard without a human managing it.

Whether the radar altitude and satellite info is correct is a big if, if you ask me. They could easily be off by 20% which makes all the difference imo.
 
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777Jet
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Re: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 82

Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:16 am

Seems like the site upgrade has resulted in locked / archived threads becoming unlocked.

The greatest aviation mystery of all time remains...
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