SAS Announces ARN-LAX, CPH-MIA & OSL-MIA

Someone83 · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:14 pm

Just announced by SAS. More info to follow

ARN-LAX daily
CPH-MIA 3x weekly
OSL-MIA 4x weekly

chrisnh · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:18 pm

MIA MIA MIA!!!

That's all we ever hear!!!

Sheesh...how about some love for BOS?

runway23 · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:19 pm

Why is LAX operating from ARN rather than CPH, surely the market is larger from CPH ?

MAH4546 · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:23 pm

Quoting runway23 (Reply 2):

Why is LAX operating from ARN rather than CPH, surely the market is larger from CPH ?

Probably because CPH already is served from SFO. This gives two hubs a daily California flight.

Oddly MIACPH is about double the size of MIAOSL, but MIAOSL gets the fourth weekly.

Great to see SAS finally come to Miami. Hope MIAARN can follow if the flights are a success.

eal · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:26 pm

I think the real big congrats goes to OSL and ARN for SAS giving them some long haul routes instead of centralizing them all at CPH. I'm surprised to see that SAS decided to split MIA into two routes instead of one. I also would've preferred a nonstop to ARN from MIA instead but that's just personal preference.

TR · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:29 pm

Said before - nothing in SAS happens out of logic but stupid politics. It makes no sense at all to spread routes across all Nordics rather than having one hub and then a few direct daily flights from the other airports to EWR and ORD. You can always discuss where that one hub should be but given that CPH by far has the greatest uptake catchment area, the hub there makes sense. But sense is not for SAS, just dumping money down the drain. Anyway congrats to LAX and MIA. Shame about BOS.

jetblue1965 · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:31 pm

how much of this would be in response to expansion by DY ? Seems awfully overlapping with them (except that was to FLL)

Star is finally giving MIA some well-deserved love, esp over the Atlantic :

LH : FRA, MUC (seasonal)
LX : ZRH
OS : VIE
TP : LIS
TK : IST
SK : ARN, CPH

Unfortunately, missing the 2 crucial ones : MAD and LHR

Someone83 · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:32 pm

SK933
ARN-LAX
09:50 - 12:15
A330-300

SK934
LAX-ARN
14:15 - 10:00 (+1)
A330-300

gdg9 · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:35 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 1):
Sheesh...how about some love for BOS?

Norwegian has that, BOS-OSL and BOS-CPH just announced yesterday I think.

OA412 · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:40 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 7):
SK933
ARN-LAX
09:50 - 12:15
A330-300

SK934
LAX-ARN
14:15 - 10:00 (+1)
A330-300

It really is amazing to see how far the A333 has come. Who would have thought we'd be seeing TATL routes on the 333 from LAX when the type was first launched.

continental004 · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:43 pm

The O&D market from Stockholm to LAX must be larger, if the plane loads of Swedes who descend on LA every summer are any indication.

Nice to see SAS here at LAX, and with a nonstop year-round link to ARN (I have a soft spot for all things Swedish)!

chrisnh · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:45 pm

Quoting GDG9 (Reply 8):
Norwegian has that, BOS-OSL and BOS-CPH just announced yesterday I think.

Yes, I was just being funny (or trying to be). BOS has been on a well-documented roll and I think the bigger issue is the U.S. 'Land Rush' international carriers are making while the 'US3' seem intent on whining and sitting on the routes they've already got. These northern European cities are ones I've never visited and I am thrilled that Norwegian is coming to BOS and doing so in such a big way. They will be welcomed with open arms!

DolphinAir747 · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:46 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 6):
Unfortunately, missing the 2 crucial ones : MAD and LHR

Both of these routes are very well served by AA/BA/IB/VS so going into a hub-to-hub route with no hub feed on either end would be suicidal. MIA has coverage to pretty much every significant in Europe except for DUB as low-hanging fruit (though we already have a thread on that). Asia is the next frontier for MIA, as well as Cuba of course when scheduled commercial services are allowed and smaller Latin American markets.

JetBuddy · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:48 pm

Quoting TR (Reply 5):

Said before - nothing in SAS happens out of logic but stupid politics. It makes no sense at all to spread routes across all Nordics rather than having one hub and then a few direct daily flights from the other airports to EWR and ORD. You can always discuss where that one hub should be but given that CPH by far has the greatest uptake catchment area, the hub there makes sense. But sense is not for SAS, just dumping money down the drain. Anyway congrats to LAX and MIA. Shame about BOS.

Yes it's politics. But you're missing the point. You've got to see SAS from the different nationalities' point of view. If all long haul was made from CPH, SK would lose an incredible amount of long haul pax to other airlines. It's just as easy to fly via LHR, FRA, or AMS as it is flying via CPH for someone in Norway or Sweden. The lack of long haul from OSL and ARN is what has given DY/DU their foothold in the market. What you're suggesting doesn't make any more sense than SWISS giving up all long haul from Zürich, only to fly it out of Frankfurt instead.

And to demonstrate even further, Norwegians are the ones who fly most long haul in Scandinavia (per capita), as well as the most premium heavy pax. Norway's BNP is 30% larger than Denmark, and OSL is extremely well connected with the entire country. CPH is not. And in total, the Swedes are the largest long haul group simply because they're almost twice as many citizens as the Norwegians or Danes. Adding to that, all of SK's long haul routes are shorter from both OSL and ARN than from CPH. If SK moved 100% of the long haul to CPH, it would be the end of the airline. In fact, politics is what's keeping CPH as the SK long haul hub, not the other way around. Kastrup airport is Denmark's largest employer (including all businesses connected to the airport), and SK is still a 50% state owned company. There's tremendous political pressure to keep CPH as the long haul hub because Norway and Sweden has most of the domestic flying, Denmark has very little.

ZealandFlyer · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:49 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 12):

I guess that we have to wait some time till the smaller latinamerican markets are open for MIA. I think the A321neolr is needed for those markets

Miami · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:50 pm

Someone is happy:

vadheim · Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:50 pm

Quoting TR (Reply 5):
It makes no sense at all to spread routes across all Nordics rather than having one hub and then a few direct daily flights from the other airports to EWR and ORD. You can always discuss where that one hub should be but given that CPH by far has the greatest uptake catchment area, the hub there makes sense.

That is how it used to be...
Today the travel patterns in Scandinavia are quite different from 20 years ago.
If SAS neglect the Norwegian and Swedish markets in favour of CPH they will loose business to KLM, Lufthansa, Emirates, Qatar, Turkish, Thai and even Norwegian etc. which all operate direct routes from Oslo and Stockholm.
Some like KLM has an armada of flights out of secondary cities (Bergen, Stavanger, Trondheim, Kristiansand, Ålesund and Sandefjord/Oslo) in Norway today direct to AMS which offer far better connections than CPH ever can do.

In addition to this there has been a big change in the demographics of Scandinavia. Sweden having the largest population of 10 million of course, but Norway has a larger population growth than that of Denmark and will soon have the same number of inhabitants or even larger if the tendency continue. Because of the oil boom in Norway Oslo Metropolitan area has turned out to be one of the fastest growing cities in Europe with an annual population growth of 2% and with an ever growing travel demand making OSL the second largest airport in the Nordic region in number of passengers (and yes I am aware that domestic travel is large, but it indicates the traffic flow and potential....). Both ARN and OSL has been underserved, SAS finally realizes but maybe too late!!

TR · Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:00 pm

White it is correct that Sweden is the largest country, a larger part of population live closer to CPH than ARN. This is part of the historical reason to have CPH as a hub. Again looking to ARN is politics, not rational thinking.

AS for Norway I would say that the party is over so to say. Had SAS been out of the blocks 10-15 years ago, I am sure they could have cashed in. With the "crisis" in the Oil industry and what can be said to be a "resssion" in Norway, it's once again politics.

I will happily leave it to you Scandinavians to figure out. Sense is not part of it IMO.

adamh8297 · Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:04 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Thread starter):

Just announced by SAS. More info to follow

ARN-LAX daily
CPH-MIA 3x weekly
OSL-MIA 4x weekly

All three make sense - big markets and you stick it to your nemesis.

Quoting TR (Reply 5):
Shame about BOS.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 11):
These northern European cities are ones I've never visited and I am thrilled that Norwegian is coming to BOS and doing so in such a big way.

First - you can't win them all.

I think it would be bigger if plane availability was different. I'm still puzzled about the weekly DY BOS-CPH and SK weighting the MIA service towards OSL as well. The smallest market out of the three main Scandinavian cities (CPH/ARN/OSL) gets the most service outside of LGW.

They must have been trying to get SK to blink. I'm satisifed with having new service to Scandinavia regardless of airlines. We got WW too for our budget travelers as well.

The777Man · Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:13 pm

Very very happy to hear about the nonstop ARN-LAX as I get a nonstop flight back to my old city! Finally! First time ever for SK on ARN-LAX although they flew direct flights with a stop somewhere from BMA in the 1950s (before my time)

The schedule is perfect as well!

The777Man

Thunderboltdrgn · Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:18 pm

Quoting TR (Reply 17):
a larger part of population live closer to CPH than ARN

No, this is not correct. Basically Skåne, Småland, Halland and Bleking is closer to CPH then to ARN
but this is only 25-30% of the population (or about 2.5 - 3 million people).

So this means that the rest of Sweden have the same population as Denmark+those 4 provinces,

thomasphoto60 · Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:19 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 1):
Sheesh...how about some love for BOS?

You're getting friggin Norwegian, don't get greedy!

VAM8789 · Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:19 pm

Miami continues to cement itself as one of the premiere markets to Europe from North America. Apart from NYC, what other city in the United States has the level of service MIA supports to Europe from European carriers?

Congrats to Miami for their continued expansion of services to Europe. Wondering what will be next for them?

[Edited 2015-08-19 08:23:11]

Miami · Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:40 pm

Press release: http://www.sasgroup.net/en/sas-expands-with-new-direct-routes-to-usa/

Someone83 · Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:41 pm

Seems like both OSL and CPH to MIA is 3x weekly

SK955 OSL-MIA 09:35-13:50 257
SK956 MIA-OSL 15:50-07:05 146

SK953 CPH-MIA 09:30-13:50 146
SK954 MIA-CPH 15:50-07:10 357

Both starting fall 2016

http://www.sasgroup.net/en/sas-expands-with-new-direct-routes-to-usa/

Miami · Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:41 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 23):

Quote:
Timetable Stockholm Arlanda – Los Angeles
Daily departures from Arlanda (SK933) at 09.50 arriving in Los Angeles 12.15.
Daily departures from Los Angeles (SK934) at 14.15 arriving at Arlanda 10.00.

Timetable Copenhagen – Miami
Departures Mondays, Thursdays and Saturdays from Copenhagen (SK953) 09.30 arriving in Miami 13.50.
Departures Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays from Miami (SK954) 15.50 arriving in Copenhagen 07.10.

Timetable Oslo – Miami
Departures Tuesdays, Fridays and Sundays from Oslo(SK955) 09.35 arriving in Miami 13.50.
Departures Mondays, Thursdays and Saturdays from Miami (SK956) 15.50 arriving in Oslo 07.05.

Miami · Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:48 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 24):
Seems like both OSL and CPH to MIA is 3x weekly

Which is odd because in reply 15, you can see the poster say OSL is 4 weekly and CPH is 3 weekly.

Miami · Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:49 pm

From airlineroute:

Quote:
SAS in Spring 2016 is returning to Los Angeles market, as the Star Alliance member plans to introduce Stockholm – Los Angeles route, from 14MAR16. Initially this route will be served by Airbus A330-300 and A340-300 on alternating days until 06MAY16, and A330-300 will operate this route on daily basis from 07MAY16.

Reservation for this route will open on Thursday 20AUG15, mentioned in the airline’s press release.

eff 14MAR16 Stockholm – Los Angeles
SK933 ARN0950 – 1315LAX 333 D
SK934 LAX1415 – 1000+1ARN 333 D

http://airlineroute.net/2015/08/19/sk-lax-s16/

fiddlerkrt · Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:16 pm

Wow, congratulations to SK and all the airports involved. It will be nice to see a dark blue tail here in LAX.

Out of interest, I was looking on airport scorecard (a site I found thanks to this forum) to get an idea the relative size of SK at each hub. To my surprise, it seems that OSL has around 150 daily departures, ARN around 115, and CPH 85 or so. It should be noted that WF has a sizable presence at OSL with around 30 daily departures and QA has 40 at CPH.

Assuming of course that these numbers are accurate, would anyone be able to explain why OSL has a much larger share of mainline traffic in comparison to CPH where SK has the lion share of its long-haul flights? Also, does anyone know when SK pulled business class from its short-haul fleet? Perhaps it never had one in the first place?

Thank-you!

Someone83 · Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:32 pm

Quoting fiddlerkrt (Reply 28):

Assuming of course that these numbers are accurate, would anyone be able to explain why OSL has a much larger share of mainline traffic in comparison to CPH where SK has the lion share of its long-haul flights?

Thank-you!

This is mainly due to the Norwegian domestic market being much larhest than the others

FSDan · Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:44 pm

Are these all year round routes? Or will it be LAX in the summer and MIA in the winter?

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 22):
Apart from NYC, what other city in the United States has the level of service MIA supports to Europe from European carriers?

ORD is up there as well, although I think MIA does still have more European airlines. ORD has EI, BA, VS, IB, AF, KL, SK, AY, LH, AB, LX, AZ, LO, OS, and TK (and soon FI). MIA has most of those plus TP, the Russian airlines, and also more secondary/budget European airlines like Air Europa, Thomas Cook, and Arkefly. Some airlines have larger gauge and/or higher frequency to ORD, some have more to MIA.

dfwjim1 · Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:46 pm

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 22):

I read somewhere a few months ago that MIA has highest number of European carriers serving it after New York City. Of
course MIA is known as the gateway to the Americas but its service to and from Europe is very impressive.

arn777 · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:03 pm

Quoting TR (Reply 5):

Quoting TR (Reply 5):

Said before - nothing in SAS happens out of logic but stupid politics. It makes no sense at all to spread routes across all Nordics rather than having one hub and then a few direct daily flights from the other airports to EWR and ORD. You can always discuss where that one hub should be but given that CPH by far has the greatest uptake catchment area, the hub there makes sense. But sense is not for SAS, just dumping money down the drain. Anyway congrats to LAX and MIA. Shame about BOS.

But SAS have been focusing on CPH the last 25 years and where have that left them? Almost bankrupt. OSL and ARN has been taken over by other carries as UA, TG, EK, QR, CA, ET, DL and lately DY, this in addition that KLM, LH have a broad network via AMS, FRA and MUC. Transfer at CPH har plunged (decreased from over 50% to about 20%). Finally have SAS understood that they must stop the leak from Norway and Sweden an offer what the market wants - direct flights.

Mortyman · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:09 pm

"Cruise and fish

- Miami is the second largest destination in the US after New York, so it has been quite natural for us to look at Miami, and we have considere it for a long time, says Eivind Roald, commercial director of SAS, to E24.

In addition to the many who will vacation in Florida and the surrounding areas, there are two key drivers for a route to Miami, according to SAS Director:

- There are really two groups who really have been asking this route when we made our surveys. There are cargo (airfreight, journ.anm.), Especially fish, as well as tour operators that will carry cruise passengers. Miami is the world's largest cruise port, says Roald.

He says that seafood operators have indicated that they will be able to fill a lot of capacity over Miami. Marine Harvest has also a processing plant in South Florida, where fish are processed into finished products for the market.

On top of vacationers Norwegians, fishing and cruise is Miami also an important hub for travel on to South America. Thus, this and Norwegian's routes connect Norwegians even closer to Latin America and for example Cuba. "

http://e24.no/privat/reise/sas-ab/sa...-til-miami-og-los-angeles/23508520

RemoFlyer · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:29 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 30):
ORD is up there as well, although I think MIA does still have more European airlines. ORD has EI, BA, VS, IB, AF, KL, SK, AY, LH, AB, LX, AZ, LO, OS, and TK (and soon FI). MIA has most of those plus TP, the Russian airlines, and also more secondary/budget European airlines like Air Europa, Thomas Cook, and Arkefly. Some airlines have larger gauge and/or higher frequency to ORD, some have more to MIA.

MIA is missing EI KL LO and FI

LAX and IAD are pretty similar in number to ORD and MIA with respect to European flag carriers

N1120A · Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:35 pm

Cool add at LAX, and slightly unexpected. I think all of the SAS flights into LAX before were to CPH.

DolphinAir747 · Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:02 pm

Quoting ZealandFlyer (Reply 14):

I guess that we have to wait some time till the smaller latinamerican markets are open for MIA. I think the A321neolr is needed for those markets

Not really, Northern Brazil is easy 737 range and there's room to expand in the Caribbean, evidently Cuba pretty soon.

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 29):
This is mainly due to the Norwegian domestic market being much larhest than the others

Yes, Denmark is very compact so most domestic travel is done by road or train. This is not an option if going from OSL to TOS.

OA412 · Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:25 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 35):
Cool add at LAX, and slightly unexpected. I think all of the SAS flights into LAX before were to CPH.

Yes as far back as I can remember, it was always LAX-CPH.

L0VE2FLY · Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:38 pm

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 21):
Quoting chrisnh (Reply 1):
Sheesh...how about some love for BOS?

You're getting friggin Norwegian, don't get greedy!

Exactly, spare a thought for San Diego chrisnh!

Mortyman · Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:54 pm

As mentioned above, one of the reasons why OSL is getting route to Miami is because of Norwegians interest for cruise. Cruise is alot more populare with Norwegians than Danes or Swedes and SAS will no doubt be interested in getting these to and from their cruise. Some numbers:

There were 141 000 Norwegians who chose cruise in 2013.

85 000 Swedes in 2015 and 38 000 Danes in 2015.

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/ir...Cruiser-mest-i-Norden-7826499.html

jfk777 · Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:27 pm

Finally the Viking comes to Miami, 30 years late, but better late then never.

HELyes · Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:31 am

This is great news, especially the ARN-LAX route looks good from HEL also.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 40):
Finally the Viking comes to Miami

His cousins are already there, Finnair (A333) serve MIA again next winter season

CXfirst · Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:27 am

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 24):

Seems like both OSL and CPH to MIA is 3x weekly

SK955 OSL-MIA 09:35-13:50 257
SK956 MIA-OSL 15:50-07:05 146

SK953 CPH-MIA 09:30-13:50 146
SK954 MIA-CPH 15:50-07:10 357

Both starting fall 2016

Think there is a bit of an error here.

From that schedule, on day 2 the aircraft arrives in MIA from OSL, but there is no flight back on that day, with the next departure being to CPH on day 3. Now, had the extra day been at CPH or perhaps OSL, then that could be aircraft rotation, but I highly doubt the aircraft will stay in MIA for over 24 hours.

So, my guess is that the 4th OSL-MIA flight being on day 3 and MIA-OSL on day 2.

-CXfirst

N62NA · Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:37 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
MIAOSL

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
MIAARN

I know you're an airline A+ "insider," but for those of us mere mortals, could you please make use of the dash (-)? It just makes it easier to read and by not adding a dash, the a.net "hover to display the airport name" feature doesn't work.

Thank you.

Oykie · Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:30 am

Congratulations to SAS! This is very good news ☺️ SAS said they were looking at increasing the number of long haul airplanes. Have they said how. Do the A340 stay on for longer?

Someone83 · Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:49 am

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 44):
Do the A340 stay on for longer?

They said they are in negotiation for either extent the A340 leases or to lease newer aircraft (most likely more 330s)

SKAirbus · Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:15 am

Gosh... OSL desperately needs to expand its non-schengen gate area. I know they have plans but very little is known about them yet. I have departed on an LHR flight at the same time a Norwegian and United flight were boarding and it was hell.... Huge queues at passport control and barely any room to move in the gate area.

LN-KGL · Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:08 am

According to insiders at OSL the Pier East will be extended eastward and will get 15 thousand more sq. metres for passengers. At the northside of Pier East gates will be moved so that more A330/A340/A350/B777/B787 can be handled and even one A380 gate will be added. Timeline not known, but the architects are in the final stages of planning.

Someone83 · Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:16 am

The OSL-MIA flight is also scheduled just before the non-Schengen departure peak time

jeppelainen · Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:48 am

Will SK adjust their ARN-EWR timetable so they can use only 2 planes for ARN-LAX-ARN-EWR-ARN?

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