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26point2
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Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:54 pm

A French DA-50 crew have been sentenced to 20 years in a Dominican Republic prison for their part in an unsuccessful drug smuggling scheme. 20 years sounds pretty rough.

Amazes me how desperate some must be to take such risks, but it must be successful much more than we will ever know.

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-ne...ne-pilots-appeal-20-year-sentences
 
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csturdiv
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:32 pm

Their country, their laws. The old saying still applies here, you do the crime, you do the time. At least it is 20 years and not like in Indonesia where they take you to a prison island and execute you by firing squad.
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD
 
bennett123
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:20 pm

Hope that F-GXMC finds a good home.

As for those on board, all those heavy cases must belong to someone.

IMO, anyone smuggling drugs on that scale deserves everything they get.
 
DAL763ER
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:31 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 2):
IMO, anyone smuggling drugs on that scale deserves everything they get.

It's just drugs though, is it really that big of a deal? Sure, send people to prison for murder, theft etc. But feel free to sell drugs all you want as long as you don't interfere with my life.
 
bennett123
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:16 pm

1,500 LB of Cocaine is not "just drugs".

This poison would destroy numerous lives.

I am with csturdiv on this.
 
peterinlisbon
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:43 pm

Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 3):
But feel free to sell drugs all you want as long as you don't interfere with my life.

I agree that the focus should be on violence and not drugs. In Mexico, for example, the government and police should go after the most violent groups and prioritise reducing violence and murder rather than going after all of them with equal force. That would encourage them to be less violent, because they would know that violence attracts extra police attention and resources. Right now, as it stands, they have nothing to lose.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't also arrest the others but that is far less of a priority, because in the end it is a never ending game. It really acheives nothing to shut one group down, only to have another one the same or even worse take their place. The more difficult they make drug trafficking, the more lucrative it becomes for those that are willing to take the risk. So in a way the police and army are actually helping drug traffickers because they are restricting supply and keeping the prices high. The focus should be on dampening demand, which is mainly an issue of education.

Anyway, 20 years in prison? The price for the next consignment is going to be extra high, which benefits who exactly? Oh yes, the drug traffickers of course.
 
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Siren
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:46 pm

The stuff should be legal. This way, nobody would need to smuggle it. Nobody would be in prison anywhere for it. Drug use and addiction would be treated as a public health problem, and publicly stigmatized, and the treatment programs paid for by heavy taxes on the drugs in question. And the drugs themselves would be provided by pharmaceutical companies providing quality control and consistency. Overnight you'd see violent crime in many countries cut down dramatically. The cartels would be completely impotent. Instead, we handle things the way we do - the military industrial complex profits, violence ensues, lives are ruined, many profit, many get thrown in prison, and we all pay.
 
DAL763ER
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:51 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 4):

1,500 LB of Cocaine is not "just drugs".

This poison would destroy numerous lives.

Is anyone forcing those lives to do drugs? Unlikely. If those drugs weren't available, would the junkies find some other way to ruin their lives? Probably. So why should the drug trafficker be punished for it? It's a business, it pays the bills...I don't really see why it's worth sending someone to jail for 20 years. If I give you a gun and you commit suicide, does that mean I killed you? Heck no...
 
peterinlisbon
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:57 pm

Quoting Siren (Reply 6):
The stuff should be legal. This way, nobody would need to smuggle it. Nobody would be in prison anywhere for it. Drug use and addiction would be treated as a public health problem, and publicly stigmatized, and the treatment programs paid for by heavy taxes on the drugs in question. And the drugs themselves would be provided by pharmaceutical companies providing quality control and consistency. Overnight you'd see violent crime in many countries cut down dramatically. The cartels would be completely impotent. Instead, we handle things the way we do - the military industrial complex profits, violence ensues, lives are ruined, many profit, many get thrown in prison, and we all pay.

I agree with you man. I spent a lot of time in Colombia and Central America and I know how it works. The police and army are actually the trafficker's biggest allies, helping them to restrict supply and keep prices high. It's like OPEC. Some many billions spent, so many lives lost every year and absolutely nothing to show for it. Anything you might want is still availabe on the high street everywhere in the world.

For anyone that's interested, here is a documentary I saw about Pablo Escobar in Colombia (which starts with a scene that always makes me think every time I take plane or go through customs):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQaZX8baIjI
 
ikramerica
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:20 am

High taxes would lead to black market drugs and the crime that goes with that.
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peterinlisbon
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:49 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 9):
High taxes would lead to black market drugs and the crime that goes with that.

How much crime do you see related to cigarette smuggling? Compare that to drug trafficking.

[Edited 2015-08-19 17:50:26]
 
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777Jet
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:54 am

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 1):
Their country, their laws. The old saying still applies here, you do the crime, you do the time. At least it is 20 years and not like in Indonesia where they take you to a prison island and execute you by firing squad.

Could be worse than Indonesia.

People get beheaded in some countries just for being homosexuals.

I wouldn't be surprised if this crew buys their way out.
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lightsaber
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:49 am

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 1):
The old saying still applies here, you do the crime,

"If you can't do the time, don't do the crime" is how I've always heard it.  

Bummer for the pilots. But if they knowingly carried illegal drugs...

Lightsaber
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cabochris
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:10 am

Sounds like the Pilots didn't know that the guys who chartered the jet were moving drugs. They are free on bail pending an appeal.. and a good chance they will be deported back to France. Areojet will be in for a fight to get that jet back, but being the country its seized in, money will make things go ones way.
 
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Semaex
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:22 am

Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 7):
Is anyone forcing those lives to do drugs? Unlikely. If those drugs weren't available, would the junkies find some other way to ruin their lives? Probably. So why should the drug trafficker be punished for it? It's a business, it pays the bills...I don't really see why it's worth sending someone to jail for 20 years. If I give you a gun and you commit suicide, does that mean I killed you? Heck no...

If you give me a gun to shoot somebody and I do it, after which you pay me a hefty amount of money which I need desperately, it's not a crime is it? "It's a business, it pays the bills". Seriously...
Illegal is illegal is illegal. Fullstop.

Quoting Siren (Reply 6):
The stuff should be legal. This way, nobody would need to smuggle it. Nobody would be in prison anywhere for it. Drug use and addiction would be treated as a public health problem, and publicly stigmatized, and the treatment programs paid for by heavy taxes on the drugs in question.
Quoting ikramerica (Reply 9):
High taxes would lead to black market drugs and the crime that goes with that.
Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 10):
How much crime do you see related to cigarette smuggling? Compare that to drug trafficking.

The difference between cigarette and drug smuggling is the addictiveness of the the drug and the money you can thus make of them and the consequences of frequent consumption on not only the user but in effect the whole society around him.
Now don't tell me drug addiction only harms the user. As a taxpayer who pays for police forces in cases of domestic violence and urban vandalism, as somebody with a health insurance who pays for the treatment of a drug addict and as a fellow human being who hates seeing families break apart with all the social consequences because of the inability of a user to manage his/her own life, I call the "harms-only-the-user" argument complete BS.
So you really cannot compare drug trafficking with the smallscale criminality of smuggling cigarettes across the borders (which does in fact happen a lot in Europe to avoid taxation).

Quoting cabochris (Reply 13):
Sounds like the Pilots didn't know that the guys who chartered the jet were moving drugs.

1,500 pounds of something on the aircraft, packed in 26 suitcases and the pilots are not aware of it? That's just naive.
This was a high-risk gamble in which the pilots lost. But if they had won, I don't think they'd be too upset about their reward.


Somewhat related incident:
AIN: Video Shows Shootdown of Hawker 800
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cabochris
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:29 am

1,500 pounds the 2 pilots operating the flight knew about...not what it consisted of exactly.. From the info out there they just showed up for duty as assigned by the company, and that's why they are not in jail. The other two Frenchman, one a charter broker and the other who chartered the flight are the culprits, along with the Dominicans who supplied and delivered the drugs. Them are in jail. The Pilots may had been passive on their part, but this is the high trotting biz jet industry, weird stuff goes on in the high life. UPS, FedEx and DHL transport kilos of drugs every day in this world.

[Edited 2015-08-20 01:48:44]
 
b747400erf
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:11 am

Many charter pilots are forced at gunpoint after arriving at their unknown destination to fly a passenger and lots of drugs without question. Here is an interesting story where such a thing happened http://www.spiegel.de/international/...1-5-tons-of-cocaine-a-1007402.html
 
bennett123
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:10 pm

Where were these cases loaded onto the plane
 
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moo
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:27 pm

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 10):
How much crime do you see related to cigarette smuggling? Compare that to drug trafficking.

Here in the UK, a fair amount - smuggling cigarettes into the country (which have no duty paid) or counterfeiting cigarettes is a fairly big criminal thing here.
 
NW747-400
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:53 pm

Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 3):
It's just drugs though, is it really that big of a deal? Sure, send people to prison for murder, theft etc. But feel free to sell drugs all you want as long as you don't interfere with my life.

That's like a pilot reading an accident report and saying "that will never happen to me." Drugs can interfere with anyone's life at anytime. You never know if a loved one will become involved with drugs, either directly or indirectly, and end up in a jail cell or a body bag. Drugs are everyone's problem, not just the dealers and addicts.
 
airshows
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:44 pm

first off i would like to say that cigarettes are just as addictive as drugs (as a smoker and seeing what drugs can do) they are just as bad and just as much of a strain on the public health system. The push to legalize some narcotics is already happening just look at Colorado in the USA and their legalization of pot it works but you have to be careful. In my home town they have safe use sites where the needles are provided for intervenes users such as coke and heroin as well as medical personal on site to make sure that no harm (other than the drug use) comes to them like over dosing. As for the pilots getting 20 years i don't know any flight crew on biz jets that doesn't know sorta what the cargo is, plus don't you think 26 bags for 1 maybe 2 people is a little strange?
 
Rdh3e
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:29 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 4):

1,500 LB of Cocaine is not "just drugs".

This poison would destroy numerous lives.

I am with csturdiv on this.

Meh, people have responsibility for what they put in their bodies. Much better to treat addiction than to try to stamp out the supply side which just makes it more attractive to producers.

Quoting Semaex (Reply 14):
Illegal is illegal is illegal. Fullstop.

We're talking about whether or not it should be illegal, not whether it currently is. Just like with Marijuana legalization, it's biggest opponents were the two groups, those profiting from the illegal selling, and those with a misplaced moral objection.

Quoting NW747-400 (Reply 19):
You never know if a loved one will become involved with drugs, either directly or indirectly, and end up in a jail cell or a body bag. Drugs are everyone's problem, not just the dealers and addicts.

Your addiction is not my problem, you can get help for that. Now if you're saying "it can become my problem" by implying that maybe a junkie will rob me for money to get high, then yes that's plausible but that can happen whether legal or illegal. Legalization would eliminate people doing drive-by shootings over "turf" and eliminate the cash-flow of hundreds of terrorist organizations around the world that rely heavily on peoples prudish attitude and reliance on supply side disruption which keeps prices high.

ISIS, the Taliban, FARC, Al Qaeda etc etc, all funded by drugs because people can't see past their noses to realize if you legalize this stuff then world monetary flows to terrorist organizations dry up.

[Edited 2015-08-20 07:32:30]
 
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falstaff
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:58 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 18):
Here in the UK, a fair amount - smuggling cigarettes into the country (which have no duty paid) or counterfeiting cigarettes is a fairly big criminal thing here.

Around Detroit we occasionally read about cases of cigarette tax fraud. The case usually involves a tobacco store own who brings a truck load of legally purchased cigarettes , from Missouri, into Michigan and then sells them at Michigan prices, making his profit much higher. The only way the consumer would notice is if they saw the Missouri tax stamp on the bottom of the pack. I am sure other states have this problem with Missouri cigarettes too. Missouri only has a 17 cent tax on cigarettes, which is the lowest in the nation. Michigan has a $2 tax on a pack of cigarettes. Missouri is likely to raise the tax to 37 cents very soon, but that would still leave a lot of room for profit for tax avoiding cigarette salesmen.
Around Detroit there are occasional reports of big busts on non taxed cigarettes, but the consumer doesn't even know about it. The suppler, usually a tobacco shop owner

Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 3):
It's just drugs though, is it really that big of a deal? Sure, send people to prison for murder, theft etc. But feel free to sell drugs all you want as long as you don't interfere with my life.

The argument that drugs only affect the user are false. Hard drugs affect an entire community, because you can't use hard drugs recreationally for very long until you become a junkie. Most junkies eventually lose their source of income and resort to theft, that effects everyone. There was a 22 year old living next to me who was a heroin addict. He is now in prison for aggravated home invasion and a list of other charges related to robbery. He was so wasted he couldn't work, he became so lazy he didn't want to work so he resorted to robbing people in my neighborhood. He stayed away from my house because of my security cameras. When he started using heroin it was only his problem, then it became my entire neighborhood's problem.

[Edited 2015-08-20 08:00:24]
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copter808
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:46 am

Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 3):
It's just drugs though, is it really that big of a deal? Sure, send people to prison for murder, theft etc.

Wow, are you for real?? So it's OK for me to go to prison for killing someone with a gun, but not for killing (or contributing to it) them with drugs? Why the difference? And I should go to prison fro burglarizing your house, but not killing you with drugs?

Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 7):
So why should the drug trafficker be punished for it? It's a business, it pays the bills...I don't really see why it's worth sending someone to jail for 20 years. If I give you a gun and you commit suicide, does that mean I killed you? Heck no...

If you give me the gun, knowing that I am going to commit suicide, then you have committed a crime. It means you ASSISTED in the suicide.

Being a "hit man" ans killing people for hire is a "business" too. That's OK then?
 
N1120A
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:52 am

Quoting Siren (Reply 6):

Hear hear.
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Semaex
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RE: Bizjet Pilots Face 20 Years In DR Prison

Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:47 am

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 21):
ISIS, the Taliban, FARC, Al Qaeda etc etc, all funded by drugs because people can't see past their noses to realize if you legalize this stuff then world monetary flows to terrorist organizations dry up.

Wait hold on this is getting funny. So you actually suggest that if we make drugs legal and control the cash flow, we will save thousands of murican lives?  

As if the organisations you mention would simply be like "damn they (NSA/FBI/InterPol etc) will control our bank accounts once drugs become legal, we should really stop this terrorism stuff. Because all our business is based on drug trafficking. And if drugs get legalized the fundamentalism in our heads will simply fade away."

Tell me again, how much money did Boko Haram make off drugs? Or ETA or the RAF? What about the KKK and the PKK?

You, Sir, seem to have got the system all figured out.
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