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Tangowhisky
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What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:06 am

We are living in an era of cheap oil, airplanes full of passengers, and airlines making huge profits. Such conditions in the past were seized opportunities by entrepreneurs in starting new airlines. But we see no such calling here in the US. Are we running out of risk takers, or is it truly a dumb idea for a new start-up?
Only the paranoid survive
 
jetmatt777
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:24 am

The main US airlines now are so large and healthy, that they will immediately squash whatever brand new competition.

It would be a daunting task going head to head with profit machines such as DL, AA, UA, WN, or AS.

To answer your question, there is a little bit.

Seaport is a good one. They seem to be trying, but are having difficulty retaining captains as they are moving to bigger equipment as the pilot shortage is squeezing the small operators hard.
 
tomaheath
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:15 am

How about a smaller airline kinda like cape air?
 
PanHAM
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:44 am

The old joke still applies:

How can you make a smll fortune in the airline Business?




By investing a big fortune.....................


The days of Freddie Laker an Rudolfo Bay are gone. Niki Lauda has started at least three arlines and sold allof them at the right time. Stelios and others who started Airlines have made that with Investors Money and sold their stake when it was perfect.

.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
b747400erf
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:09 am

Startup costs are through the roof with insurance and cost of airplanes continuing to rise. You cannot buy a couple jets and start flying today without a billion dollars raised these days. The old frontier is long gone in most industries. People that made it back then had luck on their side.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:27 am

The market conditions just aren't right at present, in order to start up a new airline the first thing you need is a market that is being ignored by the present players. The last big opportunity was Open Skies across Europe, traditionally routes were negotiated via bilateral agreements with each nation ensuring they got 50% of the spoils, and the two flag carriers not really competing. Along came the likes of FR and U2 taking advantage of the opportunity to fly where they liked when they liked.
Now however on a typical European city pairing we have available everything from a seat and a small piece of hand baggage, to lounge access, full onboard service and checked in baggage. Where could a new operator slot in ?
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:41 pm

Southern Airways Express and OneJet are two airlines that strike me as entrepreneurial. Both are finding new niches and thinking outside the traditional "737-underutilized airport-Florida" formula that so many startups tried. Most recent debacle: PeoplExpress.

New Eastern is another carrier that merits watching. While charter only at the moment they've stated their intention to operate as a scheduled airline, though their actual network plans seem to be kept tightly under wraps at the moment, for good reason.
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
Tangowhisky
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:28 am

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 1):
The main US airlines now are so large and healthy, that they will immediately squash whatever brand new competition.
Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 4):
The old frontier is long gone in most industries.
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 5):
in order to start up a new airline the first thing you need is a market that is being ignored by the present players.

Sadly you are all right. It reminds me of the retail business trend as more and more the little guys can't compete with the big box stores.
Only the paranoid survive
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:45 am

I would love to start up something down the road, and I have a vision and business plan that I have been working on.

I do agree that a start up here in the U.S. is at great risk from other carriers, but I don't think it's impossible. B6 and NK started under heavier competition than now.
There's a solution to every problem, because regardless, competition keeps the price down and it keeps the service good.
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DeltaB717
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:54 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 8):
There's a solution to every problem, because regardless, competition keeps the price down and it keeps the service good.

This is a good point. To be successful you'd have to be the solution to a problem, ergo your new startup needs to find the right problems to solve. There's no point thinking you're going to conquer the world by starting out with a 737 or 2 taking on the usual routes against the multinationals, because they'll probably end up with your 737s. Unless you're doing something very differently to them on those routes. For me, good entrepreneurialism needs to come from innovation, ingenuity and someone with the balls to take the risk and see it through.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:48 am

Quoting Tangowhisky (Thread starter):
We are living in an era of cheap oil

We are?

Quoting Tangowhisky (Thread starter):
But we see no such calling here in the US

There's been tons of startups in just the last few years alone.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Tchocky
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:58 am

I hate to be that guy but the word you're looking for is "entrepreneurship"
 
incitatus
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:09 am

In the USA both Spirit and Frontier are in fact startup businesses. Entrepreneurialism in aviation is alive and well.
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Polot
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:31 am

Quoting incitatus (Reply 12):

Spirit and Frontier are both over 20 years old. It is just their ULCC focus that is relatively new.
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:59 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 9):
There's no point thinking you're going to conquer the world by starting out with a 737 or 2 taking on the usual routes against the multinationals, because they'll probably end up with your 737s. Unless you're doing something very differently to them on those routes. For me, good entrepreneurialism needs to come from innovation, ingenuity and someone with the balls to take the risk and see it through.

You need something that other carriers don't have; Something that'll make you stand out from the others. Perhaps a cabin service or layout, product or route, and usually, that does take brainstorming and innovation.

The things that sell are:
a. Low cost, obviously
b. Customer friendly environments
c. Amenities
d. Comfort
e. New technology

No, you won't conquer the world with your two 737s or A320s, or whatever they may be, but if you and your employees are driven and relentless and doing everything right, those two 737/A320s will be a fleet of 737/A320s, and those Int'l carriers are going to have to change because of you.

Look at WN. Look at B6. Companies that started as absolute zeros are now industry powerhouses. It can be done, and it should be done.

I've put a lot of thought into how I'd want my services to be. What a lot of airline CEO's fail to do is to put themselves in their customers shoes. How could I as the person running this company do to improve the experience for my customers? At the end of the day, your business is more than just your planes, or your capital or your employees, it's your customers.

[Edited 2015-08-20 20:04:43]
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Aither
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:16 am

What's missing the most is Entrepreneurialism inside the major companies, in particular the major western ones.

The main reason for the success of ME3 is not the support from governments, it's common ambitions to build something.
Never trust the obvious
 
PanHAM
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:42 am

Most of the ME countries have bought the best Managers from around the globe and gave them a carte blanche to build up Airlines. That takes entreprenourship. You cannot build up something ny asking for prmission on every step.

However, that is so much government support managers in western countries could never get. That applies BTW to TK as well. It's a Kind of entreprenourship with other people's Money which is even more successful. Simply by allowing greater risks to be taken.

.
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LAX772LR
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:49 am

Quoting Aither (Reply 15):
The main reason for the success of ME3 is not the support from governments, it's common ambitions to build something.

Which means absolutely nil, if you don't have the support behind it.

You can't realistically separate one from the other.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
flyguy89
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:50 am

Quoting Tangowhisky (Thread starter):
Such conditions in the past were seized opportunities by entrepreneurs in starting new airlines.

In the first 10-15 years since deregulation? Sure. However a lot of them (if not mostly all) failed. The industry and air travel market in the US have matured considerably over the last couple decades, so things nowadays are quite different compared to the heady years immediately following deregulation where the market was ripe for opportunity and investors were willing to sink cash into airlines to have their piece of the pie.

This doesn't mean entrepreneurship in aviation doesn't exist however. Look at the growth of Spirit and Allegiant, both Virgin America and jetBlue are fairly new companies as well. The main difference nowadays is that there's now a better general idea on what it takes to make an airline successful, and investors are consequently more prudent when it comes to investing in airlines.
 
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nighthawk
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:26 am

Quoting Tangowhisky (Thread starter):
We are living in an era of cheap oil, airplanes full of passengers, and airlines making huge profits. Such conditions in the past were seized opportunities by entrepreneurs in starting new airlines. But we see no such calling here in the US. Are we running out of risk takers, or is it truly a dumb idea for a new start-up?

These are some of the worst conditions to be launching a new airline in. If fuel is low, then everyones making money, which means they have the money to fight you in a fare war.

You want to be launching when the cost of fuel is high. This means all the other airlines will be struggling, and laying off staff. this means there is plenty of labour and cheap aircraft available. A new startup will always have lower costs than an existing airline, so this gives you the advantage.

It's not impossible, but it's certainly a lot harder right now.
 
jeb94
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:38 am

The regulatory requirements alone make it very, very expensive just to start a little one airplane charter outfit. Then there are aircraft, spare parts, employees to include FAA mandated directors, equipment, software, etc...The saying goes, make a small fortune by starting an airline with a large fortune.

[Edited 2015-08-21 03:41:47]
 
b747400erf
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:19 pm

Quoting jeb94 (Reply 20):


The regulatory requirements alone make it very, very expensive just to start a little one airplane charter outfit. Then there are aircraft, spare parts, employees to include FAA mandated directors, equipment, software, etc...The saying goes, make a small fortune by starting an airline with a large fortune.

Do you have a citation that blames "regulatory requirements" for the high costs of starting an airline? It seems like some of the recent failures such as People Express had issues not regulated to regulations
 
Mortyman
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:34 pm

Norwegian Long Haul  
 
WearyDrover
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:02 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 16):

Well in the past, airlines also had the possibility of employing the best. Oddly enough even then airlines depended on state subsidies and, along with the subsidies came restrictions. In the past, entrepreneurs were able to gain support not just through the hope of naking a profit but by convincing states that aviation was vital to their interests, both in terms of trade and defence.

Whether it was Lufthansa, Imperial Airways or Qantas, it was government support that guaranteed their future despite placing sometimes onerous conditions upon them. Examples of state support included airlines gaining mail contracts (a state monopoly) even on routes where airmail was not much quicker than regular mail. Even Freddy Laker was able to take advantage of Exim finance at a time when the British government was committed to the nationalised airlines. Other private airlines depended to a large extent on government contracts, like trooping charters, to survive.

There were many adventurous people and there were some brilliant aviation engineers but their success usually depended on state support rather than an ability to convince investors. Even where some airlines became successful, they might turn to the state to limit competition, arguing that a free for all competition would harm the industry as a whole. And all this oredated the current attemots by LH and the US3 to limit competition from elsewhere.
A man may learn wisdom even from a foe - Aristophanes
 
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lesfalls
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:31 pm

I think the EU has quite some Entrenurial airlines being started up but on the other hand I have seen very few (that have even got close to succeeding). Am I right about this?
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
Tangowhisky
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:27 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 14):
You need something that other carriers don't have

Aren't there a bunch of markets that are abandoned by the big players? I mean towns that are no longer served, or have poor service? There must be many such examples in US and Europe. The problem is that we just don't have those bold entrepreneurs like we used to. In Canada, I can only think of Robert Deluce who started up Porter airlines by going up against Air Canada by providing service through the city island airport (an airport that AC had abandoned). I just don't see personalities like this any more.
Only the paranoid survive
 
huxrules
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:47 am

I think it's because air travel has become a commodity product. You would need to come up with something mind blowing to beat this fact. In the end it's a bunch of companies with very similar products operating in the same regulatory conditions and in that case only the largest do well. To create a destructive technology and make a new huge airline would have to take a wild idea. Note that airlines that have offered an amazing product (such as all business class airframes) have gone out of business.
 
GatorClark
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:08 am

As someone who would also love to start my own airline one day, (don't see it coming to fruition, but hey, one can dream right?) I think the key lies with a long gone railroad company that I think had it right.. The Southern Railroad once said that they asked themselves at the formation of Amtrak, are they doing whats in THEIR best interest or the CUSTOMER'S best interest? These days if you stay mindful of keeping your employees and your customers happy, you can do anything. A lot of airlines (e.g. UA, NK ) have lost their focus on their customers and employees. As a result, customer service and employee moral in general is low, and so is customer expectations. (reference all the UA, NK bashing on here) Whereas WN, B6, AS, Virgin, etc, are continuing to focus on customers (and to a lesser extent from what I'm hearing, their employees) and they are posting profits quarter after quarter. I agree its a hard industry to get into at the moment. (think baby seal in shark infested waters) but its not impossible if you do as others say and be innovative and keep your focus on happy employees and happy customers.
 
flyDTW1992
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:22 am

Quoting GatorClark (Reply 27):
A lot of airlines (e.g. UA, NK ) have lost their focus on their customers and employees

Actually NK has some of the happiest employees around from what I've heard. Pilots in particular.
Now you're flying smart
 
rutankrd
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:45 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 4):
cost of airplanes

With your flag what's an airplane ?

English (Queens) - Aeroplane please
 
AST1Driver
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:16 am

I don't think the entrepreneurial spirit is gone, but it is very difficult to break into an established industry. As others have said, between high startup costs and government regulations, commercial aviation is probably one of the worst places you could try. I'm not saying it can't be done. JetBlue and Spirit are proof of that. But, there are dozens (if not hundreds) of failed attempts to start-up airlines since deregulation. The US and Europe are over-saturated with large airlines that will do everything in there power to keep out new competition. It will be interesting to see if the new Eastern can make the transition from charter to scheduled service.

I think one of the few areas where someone could actually succeed, is in the air-taxi/charter arena. Figuring out a way to profitably operate from FBOs at small close in airports, in my opinion, is the future of aviation, especially for the business traveler. The ability to avoid long lines, TSA hassles, and the overall frustration of mass transportation, makes these smaller airports very desirable. The trick of course is to be able to set convenient schedules and provide modern comfortable aircraft that can lure these high paying customers away from the major airlines. I like the attempt that the new Southern Airways is trying, but they will need more than just Cessna Caravans to grow and survive. Large airlines like Delta are even starting to test this market by offering upgrades to private jets to their most valued customers.
 
BHXLOVER
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:18 am

Like any other business, if you can find a niche and fulfill the demand you can be a big fish in a small pond.

Titan and Cello are examples in the UK.
 
rickabone
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:51 pm

Though it flies in the face of conservative ideology, entrepreneurialism isn't being stifled by government. Most governments are actually trying to encourage it. The stifling forces are coming from the big players in an industry that has become oligarchical, where the barriers to entry are enormous, and large corporations quickly undercut, attack and absorb new players before they can get off the ground in most cases. This is a case where the 'free market' is actually hurting entrepreneurialism.
 
BA0197
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:27 pm

"If you want to become a millionaire , become a billionaire first, then open an airline."

Sir Richard Branson
 
OB1504
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:29 pm

Quoting flyDTW1992 (Reply 28):
Actually NK has some of the happiest employees around from what I've heard. Pilots in particular.

With the caveat that they have very few of their own employees left on the ground anymore. That being said, I wouldn't say NK has labor issues to anywhere near the extent of UA.

Quoting AST1Driver (Reply 30):
I'm not saying it can't be done. JetBlue and Spirit are proof of that.

Spirit has been around since 1992. They are by no means a new entrant.
 
sf260
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:30 pm

I think it is very hard to compete with the established airlines, practically impossible unless you have unlimited cash for a couple of years. Unless you have to find yourself a decent niche, or take utmost advantage of a sudden law change.
It is also very difficult to start your own (efficient, without too much outsourcing is it kills your margin) operation due to all bureaucracy involved. It takes a lot of paperwork to run a small airline business.
 
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airzim
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:59 pm

Stage 2.

The reason why start ups have faltered are there are no cheap aircraft to operate to start an airline. Once Stage 2 requirements started, the market for cheap, high cycle, used aircraft evaporated in the US and EU. The legacy operators aren't retiring older frames and in the process of sucking up whatever is left give the mass retirements of RJs. Nearly impossible to start an airline with brand new airplanes (VX and B6 did it with massive capital expense and huge underwriters who believe that SFO and JFK were unexploited markets)

Couple that with the high capital startup costs, airport congestion in the major cities, and the fact that there are really no unexploited markets left in the US (possible Europe), the market for innovation has passed.

As has also been pointed out, startups are all universally doomed for failure.
 
AST1Driver
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:12 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 34):
Spirit has been around since 1992. They are by no means a new entrant.

In the airline world 1992 is new. You can probably count on one hand the number of US airlines that have started and survived in the last 20 years.
 
incitatus
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:03 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 34):
Spirit has been around since 1992. They are by no means a new entrant.

A company does not need to be a startup to innovate or disrupt the marketplace. Look at Apple's comeback. Spirit and Frontier are going in as ULCCs, and at least in the USA that has not worked yet. Maybe Americans have higher expectations for amenities than Europeans that are quite fond of Ryanair.

Also, the expectation of the opening poster that cheap oil should have spawned more airlines is a bit premature. Cheap oil is a relatively recent deal. Nobody can be sure it is here to stay long-term, even 6 months down the road is a question mark. How long does it take to get a well-funded airline startup off the ground? I'd give it at least three years.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
Tangowhisky
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:14 am

Quoting rickabone (Reply 32):
Though it flies in the face of conservative ideology, entrepreneurialism isn't being stifled by government. Most governments are actually trying to encourage it.

In what sense? Many governments worldwide can't even fend off rioting taxi drivers against new taxi technology like UBER-X and quickly side with the taxi monopolies. I think there is that type of cozy relationships between airlines and governments every where. If a 800 pound gorilla airline would decide to dump their fares, they get away with it.
Only the paranoid survive
 
Planeflyer
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:29 am

Tangowhiskey, in the words of a great conservative, if it moves tax it, if it keeps moving regulate it and when it starts to fail subsidize it.

Most of the economic ills in the west are captured by Reagan's observation.
 
C010T3
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:45 am

I would guess the problems in the US right now are barriers being imposed in the airports themselves. Surely you could have a company starting up as hub-and-spoke airline taking advantage of the infrastructure of the old hubs in the Midwest, but a big issue is finding space at the airports on both coasts. US airports should to go CUTE in order to promote competition.
 
AirlineBrat
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:58 am

The bean counters are more concerned about profit than customer service
I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
 
CitrusCritter
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:44 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 9):

There's a lot of risk in aggressive ingenuity....just ask Skybus.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 18):

AmericaWest is now the largest airline in the world by one measure.
- CitrusCritter
Long Live the 717!
XNA
 
incitatus
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:50 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 43):
AmericaWest is now the largest airline in the world by one measure.

Followed closely by Northwest and Continental.......
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
solarflyer22
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:47 am

I am not so concerned about innovation in aviation but I think it planes its unfortunate more manufacturers arent competing with Boeing and Airbus. The barrier to entry is high but there is plenty of room for innovation. Even if you look at new players like the C Series and Sukhoi SJ100, they are still using GE engines, honeywell avionics etc. etc. I would love to see someone come up with 12-15 person super sonic jet that runs on a jet fuel blend or something but its a long shot.
 
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JBo
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RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:17 am

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 25):

Aren't there a bunch of markets that are abandoned by the big players? I mean towns that are no longer served, or have poor service? There must be many such examples in US and Europe. The problem is that we just don't have those bold entrepreneurs like we used to.

The only markets where you're really seeing this are in the smaller, regional markets where frequencies are being reduced as the major airlines get rid of their smaller regional aircraft. There are very few regional operators flying aircraft with less than 50 seats compared to 10 years ago, and the major airlines want to get rid of as many 50 seat jets as they possible can.

The result is that many cities have seen their frequencies reduced, and some cities have either lost all service entirely or have fallen under the auspices of the Essential Air Service program and are hanging onto their scheduled service by way of federal subsidies.

If there's any possible opportunity for an upstart carrier in the United States, it's at the regional level, filling the void left by the majors as they shift their regional operators towards 50+ and 70+ seat aircraft.

Unfortunately, there are two really huge barriers to entering this segment of the industry: [A} a lack of both new-build and second-hand aircraft suitable for the role, and [B] the shortage of pilots at the regional level due to the recent changes in federal regulations and requirements.

Addressing item [A} -- The only new-build turboprop airliners available on the market right now are the Q400 and the ATR-42 and -72. Venerable workhorses like the Beech 1900, Saab 340, Embraer Brasilia, Dornier 328, and the older Dash-8 families (-100/200 and -300) are long out of production and existing airframes are only so serviceable for so long.

The only way many of these markets would be economically viable again is if there were modern aircraft available to suit the mission role. Until such aircraft are developed and made available, these markets will likely remain underserved or unserved.

Addressing item [B] -- Recent changes to the FAA regulations concerning pilots flying under Part 121 rules now require all pilots to be ATP certified (correct me if I'm mistaken), which had a huge impact on the regionals. Previously, the regionals were a great place for new pilots to gain experience while working on their ATP so they could advance on to the bigger players. Now that you need an ATP to even get into the door means that are are significantly fewer qualified pilots available to fly at the regional level.

You can have all the entrepreneurial and business sense in the world, but it isn't going to help you overcome those two huge hurdles toward building a successful independent regional in the U.S.

(That being said, it's something I could see happening in the future when industrial conditions are more favorable. As the majors shift their branded regionals towards larger aircraft, I could see a new model for the U.S. industry emerge where we have some new, independent regionals come in to fill the void in the smaller cities that were left behind, with interline agreements with all major carriers, possibly even codeshares, but the relationships stop short of shared branding/ticketing. Kind of like in the early 80s before the regionals became branded).
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
Planesmart
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Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

RE: What Happened To Entrepreneurialism In Aviation?

Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:44 am

Another factor is that for the first 2-3 decades of AB's existence, they aggressively pursued market share, with the result they got alongside many start ups, and attracted financiers with an appetite for excitement.

As they started winning substantial orders, especially with the A320, even Boeing became a little less conservative.

Now market share is more comparable, it really is in neither party's interest to create a Microsoft / Apple environment of the late 80's / early 90's

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