Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
NoTime
Posts: 626
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:40 pm

That's great news.

One thing I don't quite understand, though, is the need for building a completely new terminal at CMH by 2030. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it happen, but is it really necessary? Especially considering the fact that they're finishing up an $80 million renovation on the existing building?

Apologies for the crude drawing, but why wouldn't they just do something like this?



First and foremost, it seems they could expand concourse B without too much trouble (they might have to extend the ramp eastward a bit). In fact, it looks like they could nearly double the existing number of gates in B.

If additional space is still needed, they could easily double the number of gates in concourse A by relocating Lane Aviation and demolishing their current hangars to make room for expansion.

The result would be an additional 15-18 gates (10-12 in B, 5-6 in A... at a minimum) without having to start from scratch with the terminal. Then, add a new rental car facility, add some extra lanes for security, and it would seem that you're all set. Or, am I missing something?
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2390
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:41 pm

Quoting NoTime (Reply 150):
One thing I don't quite understand, though, is the need for building a completely new terminal at CMH by 2030. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it happen, but is it really necessary? Especially considering the fact that they're finishing up an $80 million renovation on the existing building?

Airports are required by the FAA to update their master plan every 10 years. The CRAA has had a completely new "unit" terminal in their master plan for at least the last two decades. It's important to note that the $80 million renovation is exactly that: a renovation. The improvements are mostly cosmetic and HVAC-related. It's by no means intended to extend the facility's useful life by more than 20 years or so.

Quoting NoTime (Reply 150):

First and foremost, it seems they could expand concourse B without too much trouble (they might have to extend the ramp eastward a bit). In fact, it looks like they could nearly double the existing number of gates in B.

If I'm not mistaken, extension of the B Concourse to add another "T" was in the original master plan. However, the apron area has become the official de-ice facility and is heavily used by Republic Airways and American Eagle for aircraft staging. Extending the apron further east would require relocation of Sawyer Rd, movement of the fuel facility, and the rerouting of drainage lines: an expensive proposal to be sure. In addition, adding another "T" would limit the amount of additional gates. The multiple 90° angles make it hard to place functioning gate areas; the current dog-leg gates of B25 and B28 are cumbersome as it is to bring aircraft in and out.

Quoting NoTime (Reply 150):
If additional space is still needed, they could easily double the number of gates in concourse A by relocating Lane Aviation and demolishing their current hangars to make room for expansion.

Since the CRAA does not own Lane Aviation, their relocation and demolition could be a touchy subject as I don't think Lane has any intention to leave their current facility. This could prove to be problematic if/when the airport decides to start on the unit terminal. Since Lane will have to move regardless to accommodate any future terminal enhancements, it makes more sense to relocate them as part of a new terminal project.

In the grand scheme of things, the current terminal is already reaching its shelf life. The current facility is a hodgepodge of building additions. The 3 separate checkpoint layout is inefficient. Airline and airport administration offices, particularly in the B Concourse and headhouse, are antiquated. The costs to remediate the existing terminal to the point where it truly would be facility adequate for the current realities of the aviation industry as well as poise it for the future are more than justified in building a new terminal.
 
brooklynchris13
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:11 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:29 pm

Quoting NoTime (Reply 150):
Apologies for the crude drawing, but why wouldn't they just do something like this?

You brought some pleasant memories back with your drawing. You are not far off the original plans at all. I tried to find the original plan for CMH expansion on the internet, but was unable. Basically, I as I recall, the plan was to add two fingers off the end of what is now "B", extending due east from where gates B30 and B35 are presently, as well as westward extensions of B and C. That was one of the reasons the ramp was expanded in the area between the terminal and the Fire Station. However, as FLYCMH said, the truth of the matter is that the terminal is getting very long in the tooth and that added space would not work well for passengers or aircraft. In regards to age, the ticket counter area of the terminal goes back to the original 1958 terminal. The end of what is now B was added in the 1980s renovation. As you walk from the B security checkpoint to the end of B you will notice you start walking down. That area, near the B25, marks the end of the Old Terminal and where the additional space started.

It is truly time to start towards a new terminal complex. Especially if you visit IND, which (IMO) is the gold standard of a airport terminal for a city the size of CMH. Im excited about the possibilities of a new terminal and even more excited to see the airports growth spurt. Exciting times.. and hopefully we can all move beyond the Skybus hangover...
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
Posts: 5430
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:34 pm

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 152):
As you walk from the B security checkpoint to the end of B you will notice you start walking down. That area, near the B25, marks the end of the Old Terminal and where the additional space started.

Interesting that CMH add-ons can be marked by downward slopes. The original end of C (just past the elevator) is also marked by a downhill ramp.

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 152):
Basically, I as I recall, the plan was to add two fingers off the end of what is now "B", extending due east from where gates B30 and B35 are presently

That sounds terribly clunky. "Walk to the end, then turn left, then right to get to B39."
 
User avatar
AirportRival
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:24 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:55 pm

I'm not sure if it was mentioned on here but three gates have been reopened at the end of Concourse A at CVG. They are currently in the process of installing the jetways. Today also marks the end of the old airline user agreement that gave majority control over airport decision to Delta. The new one makes it a little more even. According to an article from the Enquirer landing fees for next year will be 40% lower than in 2010 so the average airfare should continue to drop.

Starting in January Allegiant will be using CVG as a base for 3 of its A319's and PSA will open its base as well. The hangar that PSA purchased will be jointly used by them and Envoy. At least that's what I gathered by looking at the signs on the building.
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
Posts: 5430
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:12 am

DL 8951, 737-800 RDU-CMH, is about to land at CMH. What's the deal there? I figure it's too late to be positioning for a Fiesta Bowl charter.
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2390
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:49 pm

Now that it's 2016, what's on everyone's wish list for new/improved service at Ohio airports this year?

PKB:

Maintain existing United Express service to IAD.

YNG:

New Allegiant Air service to FLL
New service by one of the US3 - DL to DTW, UA to IAD or ORD, AA to ORD or CLT.

TOL:

New Allegiant Air service to MYR, FLL, and/or LAS.
Increased AA service to ORD via additional frequencies and/or upgauged aircraft.
New service by either United or Delta - UA to EWR or IAD, DL to ATL

DAY:

New Allegiant Air service to PGD and LAS
Resumption of United service to IAH - 2x ER4
Regain WN service to BWI and seasonal service to MCO

LCK:

New Allegiant Air service to LAS, seasonal service to PBI

CMH:

AA - upgauge MIA to E75

AC - upgauge YYZ to DH3 or CR2

DL - upgauge BOS to anything larger than an ER4
- resume service to BDL, 2x ER4
- resume service to SLC, seasonal 1x 319
- resume daily MCO, any aircraft type
- new service to MKE, 2x ER4

UA - new service to SFO, 1x 319 or 73G

WN - new service to MCI, 1x daily 73G
- new service to HOU, 1x daily 73G

AS - new service to SEA, 1x daily 73G

Any new international service
 
NoTime
Posts: 626
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:05 pm

Quoting flyCMH (Reply 156):
Now that it's 2016, what's on everyone's wish list for new/improved service at Ohio airports this year?

Interesting that you included PKB. Honestly, I think it's time to close up the shop at PKB and let folks drive to CRW, HTS, CAK or CMH for their flights.

I agree with everything else you've got listed. Bringing in an AS flight from CMH to SEA would be great. Along those same lines, I'd like to see ANY new carriers at CMH - whether it's bringing back B6 (preferred), getting F9 to enter the market, or, I guess, even getting NK.

And, of course, ANY new international service would be a huge deal.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1465
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:44 am

Blue jackets? Or should I say Capitals?
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3455
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:34 am

Quoting flyCMH (Reply 156):
Now that it's 2016, what's on everyone's wish list for new/improved service at Ohio airports this year?

I'll bite-

TOL:

- New legacy service from either DL to ATL or DTW, or UA to ORD or EWR

CAK:

- G4 service to SFB to round out their Florida portfolio

CLE:

- DL mainline service to MSP

CMH:

- F9 service to DEN
- NK service to...anywhere really

CVG:

- WN to BWI and/or MDW
- B6 to BOS
- AA mainline service to DFW
- UA mainline to IAH, DEN or ORD
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
Posts: 5430
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:43 pm

CMH- Basically what FlyCMH said, with the addition of:

-B6- BOS/JFK/MCO/FLL (or some combination. BOS/FLL seem like their Middle America startup/restart go-tos. FLL has low competition and could provide southbound connection opportunities. I selfishly want JFK for CMH-JFK-DAB. Put them back at C49 for ol' times sake  ).

-F9- Surprise me. Strange little airline that they are having pulled out of CMH twice. Maybe third time will be the charm. Go hog wild and throw some competition on all the legacy routes like they did at CLE or just go to DEN. UST could be interesting. Whatever they want.

-NK- FLL. Again, given it's seasonal on WN and less-than-daily on G4 from LCK, it seems like they've got FLL written all over them for the same reasons as B6 might.

-OneJet- MKE/MEM/PIT/IND. All are unserved, OneJet is looking at CMH. I don't know if they touch BNA given WN being on the route.

-AA/BA- LHR

-Vacation Express- MBJ or KIN. An article I read said Jamaica is typically the fourth destination they add. Let's see it.

LCK:

-G4- IWA, LAS, and JAX. Given how things have gone for G4 there, I could see the first two happening. JAX already has PIT and CVG and, given their trends with SAV and MSY (Midwest service), LCK makes sense.

DAY:

-G4- More Florida, plus LAS

-F9- DEN. Would like to see them come back, especially with WN giving it up. They made it work for years until they blew it up and started over.

-UA- I agree IAH needs to come back. Not many westbound destinations out of DAY.

PKB:

-UA- Maintain service.

TOL, YNG:

-Legacy service

CAK:

-Don't lose anything else to CLE.

Quoting flyCMH (Reply 156):
AA - upgauge MIA to E75

I think that already happened.
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2390
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:11 pm

Sorry all, I meant to include CAK and CVG in my initial wish list:

CAK:

New Allegiant Air service to SFB
New Delta service to MSP (1-2x daily CRJ)
Regain WN service to BWI and seasonal service to MCO

CVG:

AA - upgauge DFW to 319/M80

F9 - New/resumed service to STL, IAH, TPA, and PHX

G4 - New service to PBI, 2x weekly
- continue to expand into new markets

UA - upgauge either ORD or DEN or both to mainline

New jetBlue service to BOS and FLL
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2390
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:16 pm

Quoting NoTime (Reply 157):
Interesting that you included PKB. Honestly, I think it's time to close up the shop at PKB and let folks drive to CRW, HTS, CAK or CMH for their flights.

I'll be honest that I've thought the same as well. Though it really is a convenient service that I've used before. I can only hope it sticks around, but can completely understand if it goes away.

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 160):
Quoting flyCMH (Reply 156):AA - upgauge MIA to E75
I think that already happened.

Unfortunately it appears to have been merely a holiday upgauge. Flights return to ER4s later this week.
 
User avatar
atypical
Posts: 801
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:28 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:09 pm

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 137):
it may just be that the time is rapidly approaching for CMH (and IND) to obtain LHR service.

The wild card when comparing IND - LHR/LGW to CMH - LHR/LGW is the huge Rolls Royce operations in Indy. I can't imagine starting that route without locking up RR travel and if it isn't the route would be a no go.
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1529
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:58 am

Quoting flyCMH (Reply 156):
TOL:

New Allegiant Air service to MYR, FLL, and/or LAS.
Increased AA service to ORD via additional frequencies and/or upgauged aircraft.
New service by either United or Delta - UA to EWR or IAD, DL to ATL

Here's what I got for you all. Supposedly Allegiant is going to make a decision very soon about the summer about MYR. It should be in the next few weeks if they are going to fly TOL-MYR for the summer. So far, Spring capacity appears to be flat to slightly up for them.

As for AA, they (as in AA) had talked about writing a letter to the DOT to extend the 2011 SCASD grant for one more year for them to make CLT more attractive to start this year. Have till the 15th of this month to get it extended, can't locate it. Traffic on AA has dropped 10+% on the loads due to increased fares. When they were competitive, flights were over 80% full...now running low 70s and upper 60s.

UA is a target, but UA says they only want to run ORD if they want to enter the market. Could happen as UA and AA have been kind of going back and forth lately out of ORD. We shall see.

Other than that, nothing new or exciting from up here in terms of any real news.
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
Posts: 5430
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:54 am

Quoting ncflyer (Reply 158):
Blue jackets? Or should I say Capitals?

I bet CBJ wouldn't complain if Ultimate Air Shuttle started CMH-BKL. Might make a nice (faster) shuttle from the Monsters.
 
brooklynchris13
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:11 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:41 pm

As everyone else has covered the wishlist items very effectively, I would only add to the items for CMH, at least one mainline flight on AA to CLT (more likely) and to PHL. (less likely). That would be a great indication of growth/demand and a logical next step in the market, putting them on par with IND.

Otherwise, I think the more interesting things to follow in Ohio in 2016 will be at CLE and CVG as they continue their efforts to overcome the total loss and partial loss of their hubs, along with how that impacts CAK and DAY respectively.
In addition, the (Amazon?) operation at ILN will bare watching, especially with significant amazon construction underway in metro Columbus on data and distribution centers.
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:47 pm

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 152):
specially if you visit IND, which (IMO) is the gold standard of a airport terminal for a city the size of CMH. I

I agree 100% - And consider what the IND airport was before the current structure!!! It was horrible before, now is my favorite airport for cities of the size.

Quoting flyCMH (Reply 156):
- resume service to SLC, seasonal 1x 319

I can't see it coming back as mainline with the LAX and MSP service. Maybe with an E170/E175 however.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5678
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:00 pm

Quoting NoTime (Reply 157):
Interesting that you included PKB. Honestly, I think it's time to close up the shop at PKB and let folks drive to CRW, HTS, CAK or CMH for their flights.

At the peak of the shale oil boom, PKB was pushing above 18K pax annually; that's close to graduation from the EAS program. If somebody actually builds one or more of the proposed crackers, I think PKB (both sides of the river) will see more growth.
 
brooklynchris13
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:11 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:34 pm

Speaking of DL and SEA (and AS) does anyone see the possibility of DL starting SEA from CMH, perhaps instead of SLC, to preempt AS? With the CMH market growing I have to think its on the radar of a a few airlines, especially with reductions in the cost of fuel and, thereby, reduced costs of making an effort at a new market?
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:31 pm

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 169):
Speaking of DL and SEA (and AS) does anyone see the possibility of DL starting SEA from CMH, perhaps instead of SLC, to preempt AS?

I would really like it, but really doubt it to happen. If you consider the connection opportunities, SEA with DL is really a good option. There are connections to Asia, the US West and Canada. It's not far off the options that LAX has honestly, and on top of that, I'd say that SEA is a much better facility/operation than LAX T5/T6 with DL. LAX is just too crowded now with all of DL's flights.

Maybe if LAX and SEA were alternated on DL to CMH, that may be something to chew.
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
Posts: 5430
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:46 pm

CMH-SEA is intriguing because I bet there's a subsidy check for an eager taker, with the question being who they make it out to.

Would that be in E175 range?

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 166):
at least one mainline flight on AA to CLT (more likely) and to PHL. (less likely).

I've wondered what CMH-CLT/PHL would look like without the Republic maintenance hangar factoring in. Would there be mainline or would it just be CR9/CR7 city?
 
brooklynchris13
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:11 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:30 pm

Well a quick internet search says the range of an E175 is 2,000 miles. The following search gave CMH-SEA as exactly 2,000 miles. I am guessing with reserves that means its just a little too far for a 175 but maybe someone else knows the capabilities of that aircraft a little better. I would think a 319 (DL) or 738 (AS) would be a more suitable candidate.

As for the YX base in CMH, that is a great point. I think the load factors would demand the CR9 to CLT, but maybe the mx base gets some lift to PHL that would not otherwise be there. I am somewhat amazed that the CRJ is still used for PHL-CMH but given that PHL-DCA is on a CRJ, I guess CMH doesn't have much room to complain.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3455
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:31 pm

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 166):
I would only add to the items for CMH, at least one mainline flight on AA to CLT (more likely) and to PHL. (less likely).

I hope for the same actually. I'm surprised there's no mainline from CLT to either CMH or CVG especially considering the high frequency and that they're all operated with large RJ's. Seems like natural upgauge potential.
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
Posts: 5430
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:58 am

DL and US dumped almost all their mainline at about the same time around 2006-2007. It was weird. At one point, DL only had one 738 to ATL, CVG, and LAX each (and, if not for LAX, they might not have had ATL because LAX required that plane), while US' only mainline was an inbound 733 from PHL which went to DCA in the morning.

The difference is DL eventually brought it back in earnest, in part thanks to being jarred to life by FL (went from 738, CR7, E70, CRJ, ERJ to 757 & 5 M88 overnight).
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3455
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:03 am

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 171):
CMH-SEA is intriguing because I bet there's a subsidy check for an eager taker, with the question being who they make it out to.

Would that be in E175 range?


If AS isn't interested, I think this would be a good market for F9 if they ever decide to come back to CMH.

Quoting AirportRival (Reply 154):
I'm not sure if it was mentioned on here but three gates have been reopened at the end of Concourse A at CVG. They are currently in the process of installing the jetways. Today also marks the end of the old airline user agreement that gave majority control over airport decision to Delta. The new one makes it a little more even. According to an article from the Enquirer landing fees for next year will be 40% lower than in 2010 so the average airfare should continue to drop.

Starting in January Allegiant will be using CVG as a base for 3 of its A319's and PSA will open its base as well. The hangar that PSA purchased will be jointly used by them and Envoy. At least that's what I gathered by looking at the signs on the building.



A couple more updates as well:

CVG just posted their November numbers which were up 7.96% YOY, so it looks like for 2015 CVG will crack the 6 million passenger for the first time since 2012.

I knew F9 had discontinued PHX, but wasn't aware they were also dropping CVG-DFW:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/mone...ights-phoenix-dallas-cvg/78266360/

DAY has also posted their November numbers. Traffic for them was up 2.5%, YTD traffic is still down 6.2% however, with all carriers posting decline thus far for 2015. Perhaps G4 will help change that but I can't imagine WN's service suspensions will help in passenger figures.

[Edited 2016-01-04 20:26:03]
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2390
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:46 am

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 164):
Here's what I got for you all.

Thanks for the updates. Definitely hoping TOL-MYR on G4 comes to fruition. I'm certain they can be successful on the route.

In regards to AA, it seems as though they're preferring the higher yields as opposed to higher LF. I wonder how that can be used to convince AA to begin nonstop service to CLT. TOL has in its favor that several regional cities have received new service to CLT and that they can probably pull some decent O&D yields. The kicker is whether connections would be trash (especially when having to match fares available from DTW) or would they be able to pull enough high-yield connections to make the route work.

I wish I knew why UA remains in the mindset that any reintroduction to the local market has to be from ORD. I understand the regional economics of it all, but it seems as though EWR can play just as significant as a role in connecting TOL to the airline's route network, especially considering ORD is already served via AA. Plus I would imagine UA could expect some healthy O&D by serving TOL-EWR. One can only hope and dream, I guess.
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2390
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:15 am

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 171):
Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 166):at least one mainline flight on AA to CLT (more likely) and to PHL. (less likely).
I've wondered what CMH-CLT/PHL would look like without the Republic maintenance hangar factoring in. Would there be mainline or would it just be CR9/CR7 city?
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 173):
Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 166): I would only add to the items for CMH, at least one mainline flight on AA to CLT (more likely) and to PHL. (less likely).
I hope for the same actually. I'm surprised there's no mainline from CLT to either CMH or CVG especially considering the high frequency and that they're all operated with large RJ's. Seems like natural upgauge potential.

I was VERY tempted to mention the return of mainline on the CMH-CLT route. However my thinking was, with the merger, that some CLT connections might be redundant with MIA. And if I had to choose a mainline upgrade to CLT or bringing MIA up to 2x E75, I'd rather have the latter.

Even without the Republic maintenance base, CMH-CLT would probably retain its current all-large RJ setup. IND has a large Republic mx base as well, not to mention the airline's HQs, and AA flies several mainline frequencies to CLT. If AA really saw the demand for it, they'd have already put a 319 or 2 on CMH-CLT. Not sure if the same can be said about CVG. Hopefully a mainline frequency or two can be added along with the inevitable continuation of CR9/CR7 service courtesy of the huge new PSA MRO being established at CVG.

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 169):
Speaking of DL and SEA (and AS) does anyone see the possibility of DL starting SEA from CMH, perhaps instead of SLC, to preempt AS?

Definitely another good possibility. My personal hope would be for AS, but I could see DL taking on the service for reasons already mentioned. In addition, with Seattle-based Amazon building 3 data centers and 2 distribution centers in metro Columbus, one has to imagine O&D between the two cities will perk up a bit. Will it be enough to AS or DL to bite? That remains to be seen. Plus, on the negative side for DL, serving CMH-SEA could cannibalize existing MSP, DTW, LAX, and even ATL hub traffic.

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 166):
Otherwise, I think the more interesting things to follow in Ohio in 2016 will be at CLE and CVG as they continue their efforts to overcome the total loss and partial loss of their hubs, along with how that impacts CAK and DAY respectively.

Definitely agreed. I was hesitant to include CLE since the service changes have been so fast and furious it's been hard to keep tabs on all of them despite the dedicated thread. But the dynamics that have been changing in Northeast Ohio air service will certainly be the subject of much conversation in 2016. Of course, we're seeing a similar paradigm shift in Southeast Ohio as CVG sees it's own ULCC boom and the effect on DAY. My gut feeling is DAY will continue to thrive as it has a metro population of its own to feed from and continues to draw regionally despite changes in air service. CVG will likely see a banner year in 2016 with service from B6 being not a matter of if but when, in my opinion.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3455
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:13 am

Quoting flyCMH (Reply 176):
I wish I knew why UA remains in the mindset that any reintroduction to the local market has to be from ORD. I understand the regional economics of it all, but it seems as though EWR can play just as significant as a role in connecting TOL to the airline's route network, especially considering ORD is already served via AA. Plus I would imagine UA could expect some healthy O&D by serving TOL-EWR. One can only hope and dream, I guess.

I don't think, for UA, it's a question of whether EWR could do the job. I'm sure a TOL-EWR flight would work just as well if not better than TOL-ORD. I think it's more an issue of limited resources with EWR being much more capacity-strained than ORD and whether or not it's worth subtracting from somewhere else to accommodate TOL-EWR.

Quoting flyCMH (Reply 177):
I was VERY tempted to mention the return of mainline on the CMH-CLT route. However my thinking was, with the merger, that some CLT connections might be redundant with MIA. And if I had to choose a mainline upgrade to CLT or bringing MIA up to 2x E75, I'd rather have the latter.

Who all is currently doing CMH-South Florida? In addition to the Caribbean/LatAm connections, I would think that O&D on both ends could fill 2x E75. Then again, I'm not sure that AA really prices CMH-MIA to capture any appreciable passenger volume beyond price-skimming with the highest fares.

Quoting flyCMH (Reply 177):
Definitely another good possibility. My personal hope would be for AS, but I could see DL taking on the service for reasons already mentioned. In addition, with Seattle-based Amazon building 3 data centers and 2 distribution centers in metro Columbus, one has to imagine O&D between the two cities will perk up a bit. Will it be enough to AS or DL to bite? That remains to be seen. Plus, on the negative side for DL, serving CMH-SEA could cannibalize existing MSP, DTW, LAX, and even ATL hub traffic.


I may have mentioned this before, but I think CVG-SEA makes a good bellwether for these types of longer spoke flights from SEA for DL. IMO with SEA feed growing, we should at least look to see if DL's capacity/frequency starts to perk up on CVG-SEA (where DL has feed on both ends) before looking at them to start routes like SEA-CMH/IND/PIT/CLE (where they'd have feed from just one end). Just a theory.

Quoting flyCMH (Reply 177):
My gut feeling is DAY will continue to thrive as it has a metro population of its own to feed from and continues to draw regionally despite changes in air service.


I think DAY will be fine in the end, it's just undergoing its own version of right-sizing with the drive traffic drying up. I'm not sure WN at DAY is long for this world, but as you said they do have their own metro catchment area and I think G4 is perfect to fill that "in-between" void that WN doesn't appear interested in serving.
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
Posts: 5430
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:05 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 178):
Who all is currently doing CMH-South Florida? In addition to the Caribbean/LatAm connections, I would think that O&D on both ends could fill 2x E75. Then again, I'm not sure that AA really prices CMH-MIA to capture any appreciable passenger volume beyond price-skimming with the highest fares.

AA- MIA 2x/daily, ERJ
DL- MIA Saturdays, E75
G4- FLL, 2x/week
WN- FLL daily, 737

...which is why I could see NK or B6 jumping in if they REALLY wanted it. CMH-MIA nonstop in April (I have to go and looked last month) was surprisingly more expensive than connecting flights. DCA was the cheapest stop almost every time.
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1529
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:22 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 178):

Quoting flyCMH (Reply 176):
I wish I knew why UA remains in the mindset that any reintroduction to the local market has to be from ORD. I understand the regional economics of it all, but it seems as though EWR can play just as significant as a role in connecting TOL to the airline's route network, especially considering ORD is already served via AA. Plus I would imagine UA could expect some healthy O&D by serving TOL-EWR. One can only hope and dream, I guess.

I don't think, for UA, it's a question of whether EWR could do the job. I'm sure a TOL-EWR flight would work just as well if not better than TOL-ORD. I think it's more an issue of limited resources with EWR being much more capacity-strained than ORD and whether or not it's worth subtracting from somewhere else to accommodate TOL-EWR.

I have no doubts yield would suffice for the flights to EWR. I think flyguy hit the nail on the head though. Lack of crews and meaningful slots at EWR is what really kills any chance of TOL-EWR. I would think 2x E145 or 3x E145 would really be needed to compete and keep people from driving to DTW.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 178):

Quoting flyCMH (Reply 177):
Definitely another good possibility. My personal hope would be for AS, but I could see DL taking on the service for reasons already mentioned. In addition, with Seattle-based Amazon building 3 data centers and 2 distribution centers in metro Columbus, one has to imagine O&D between the two cities will perk up a bit. Will it be enough to AS or DL to bite? That remains to be seen. Plus, on the negative side for DL, serving CMH-SEA could cannibalize existing MSP, DTW, LAX, and even ATL hub traffic.


I may have mentioned this before, but I think CVG-SEA makes a good bellwether for these types of longer spoke flights from SEA for DL. IMO with SEA feed growing, we should at least look to see if DL's capacity/frequency starts to perk up on CVG-SEA (where DL has feed on both ends) before looking at them to start routes like SEA-CMH/IND/PIT/CLE (where they'd have feed from just one end). Just a theory.

I just read in today's Toledo rag that Amazon is also opening up a new wind farm in Paulding County...only about an hour to 90 minute drive from CMH.
 
NoTime
Posts: 626
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:19 pm

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 166):
In addition, the (Amazon?) operation at ILN will bare watching, especially with significant amazon construction underway in metro Columbus on data and distribution centers.
Quoting flyCMH (Reply 177):
In addition, with Seattle-based Amazon building 3 data centers and 2 distribution centers in metro Columbus,
Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 180):
I just read in today's Toledo rag that Amazon is also opening up a new wind farm in Paulding County...only about an hour to 90 minute drive from CMH.


With all of this Amazon work cropping up in and around CMH, any ideas why they are (supposedly) working out of ILN instead of LCK?

I can't say that I'm overly familiar with ILN, and I realize that they were a logistics hub for a while. But, with all of the logistics/distribution improvements that have been made at LCK over the last 10 years (the intermodal facility, the shipping-specific road improvements, the FTZ, the army of freight forwarders, etc) I can't imagine that KILN is a better option.
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
Posts: 5430
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:07 pm

ILN's sort facility, as far as I know, vacant and it's reasonable to assume that area is still in dire need of an economic shot in the arm. There might be some sort of incentive for them to go there beyond a ready-made sort waiting for a tenant. I'd add Amazon to ILN to my wish list, as they need it the most.

I actually wondered about DAY this morning. The Emery facility is still there, even though it's probably not as big as ABX's. Immediate access to 70 and 75.

[Edited 2016-01-07 07:09:43]
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:07 pm

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 182):
ILN's sort facility, as far as I know, vacant and it's reasonable to assume that area is still in dire need of an economic shot in the arm.

ILN also had a recent investment in supporting infrastructure. State Route 73 is now a "highway" all the way from the ILN airport to the Interstate.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3455
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:46 pm

Some nice adds for Ohio from the big F9 announcement today:

CVG gets:
- LAX 4x weekly
- SFO 3x weekly
- IAH 4x weekly
- PHL 4x weekly

They're also re-instating the ATL, DFW and PHX flights previously reported as canceled.

This is on top the CLE routes announced as well.

These are pretty solid adds all in all. DL is down 5-ish weekly flights to SFO with their fares, so it'll be nice having F9 on the route to perk things up. DL still has LAX at 2x daily for most of the year, but this is a route that could greatly benefit from some LCC stimulation.
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
Posts: 5430
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:20 am

I find interesting that F9 and NK's business plans involve going head-to-head with established carriers on flights to their hubs or established hub routes. Their CLE flights overlap sometimes with three other airlines. They're tangoing with all of the legacy carriers on the seven flights flyguy89 mentions.
 
brooklynchris13
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:11 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:12 pm

Good Morning everyone. Reading the CRAA report on increased aircraft size at CMH being the main driver for increases in passenger traffic, I took the time to look up aircraft types for a random date in April (Monday April 4) just to gauge if there was any noticeable or remarkable increase. I have to say, the only one that really sticks out to me is Air Canada Jazz, with two of the YYZ flights now on DH3s. Otherwise, it seems pretty standard to me, but I would welcome other thoughts..

AA
PHX (2x) 319
LAX (1x) 319
DFW (4x) MD80
ORD (7x) CR7; (2x) ER4
CLT (5x) E175; (3x) CR9
PHL (4x) E175; (3x) CRJ
DCA (1x) E175; (2X) E170; (2x) CRJ
LGA (4x) E170; (1x) ER4; (1x) CRJ
JFK (1x) ER4

UA
EWR (4x) E170; (3x) E145
ORD (2x) 73G; (1x) CR7; (1x) E170; (1x) E145; (1x) CRJ
IAD (4x) CR7
IAH (1x) E170; (1x) CR7; (2x) E145
DEN (1x) E170; (1x) E145

AC
YYZ (2x) DH3, (2x) DH1

DL
ATL (1x) 739; (2x) 738; (1x) MD90; (4x) MD88
DET (1x) E175; (1x) CR7; (2x) CRJ; (4x) E135
LGA (4x) E175; (1x) E170; (1x) CR9
BOS (3x) E135 (I did not know about a 3rd BOS flight?)
LAX (1x) 738
MSP (1x) 717; (1x) CR9; (1x) CRJ; (1x) E135
JFK (3x) E145
RDU (1x) E135, (1) CRJ

WN
OAK (1x) 73G
ATL (2x) 73G; (1x) 733
BWI (3x) 73G; (1x) 733
BOS (2x) 733
MDW (6x) 73G
DAL (1x) 733
DEN (1x) 73G
FLL (1x) 73G
RSW (3x) 733
LAS (2x) 738
BNA (1x) 733; (1x) 73G
MCO (1x) 738; (1x) 73G; (2x) 733
PHX (1x) 73G
STL (1x) 73G; (1x) 733
TPA (3x) 73G
DCA (2x) 73G

Total Flights: 146
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3455
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:44 am

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 185):
They're tangoing with all of the legacy carriers on the seven flights flyguy89 mentions.

True, however with 3-4x weekly frequencies, they're positioning themselves much better to generate and sap up incremental passenger demand and thus be less pesky to the legacies they're up against.

In other news, the DOT released the latest airfare data on Friday, and CVG saw a pretty steep decline from the top 5 most expensive in airfare to number 20 with an average fare of $436, down from $523. As airfare at CVG continues to drop I expect passenger traffic to continue growing, so good news all around.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/mone...8/ticket-prices-drop-cvg/78519196/

Average fares reported elsewhere in Ohio:

CMH: $409
DAY: $433

Not Ohio, but IND and SDF clocked in at $387 and $441 respectively.
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2390
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:39 am

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 184):
CVG gets:
- LAX 4x weekly
- SFO 3x weekly
- IAH 4x weekly
- PHL 4x weekly

They're also re-instating the ATL, DFW and PHX flights previously reported as canceled.

Very nice additions; great to see F9 resume ATL, DFW and PHX. Would not be surprised to see some of these routes go daily during peak seasons.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 187):
Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 185):They're tangoing with all of the legacy carriers on the seven flights flyguy89 mentions.
True, however with 3-4x weekly frequencies, they're positioning themselves much better to generate and sap up incremental passenger demand and thus be less pesky to the legacies they're up against.

Absolutely, couldn't have said it better. F9, NK, and to a lesser extent, G4 have done an excellent job targeting high volume routes where their product can succeed.

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 186):
Reading the CRAA report on increased aircraft size at CMH being the main driver for increases in passenger traffic, I took the time to look up aircraft types for a random date in April (Monday April 4) just to gauge if there was any noticeable or remarkable increase. I have to say, the only one that really sticks out to me is Air Canada Jazz, with two of the YYZ flights now on DH3s.

Throughout much of 2015, UA upgauged multiple frequencies to ORD and DEN to mainline. IAH, IAD, and EWR saw multiple large RJ upgauges as well. The aircraft types found in the April schedule likely have not been finalized (DEN now shows 1x 320 and 1x E70), so it's a bit too early to tell whether the trend will continue.

Delta has run 3x daily to BOS for several years. The route goes down to 2-1x daily towards the end of December, through January and to the beginning of February during the offseason. An interesting thing to note is the continuation of at least 1 mainline frequency to MSP with the 712. Previous years mainline does not return to CMH-MSP until June.

The upgauge of 2 of the 4 AC flights to DH3s is certainly welcomed. The last time DH3s were regularly scheduled into CMH was several summers ago.

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 186):
AA

Don't forget AA's 2x ER4 to MIA! Makes for 148 peak daily nonstops in April assuming all stays the same.
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
Posts: 5430
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:06 pm

Big Allegiant announcement scheduled to take place tomorrow. JAX is supposedly getting three new destinations, which makes me wonder if:

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 160):
LCK:

-G4- IWA, LAS, and JAX. Given how things have gone for G4 there, I could see the first two happening. JAX already has PIT and CVG and, given their trends with SAV and MSY (Midwest service), LCK makes sense.

...is part of it.

e- Also, after going into the OAG thread on a whim myself, I see FlyCMH picked up on F9 supposedly returning to CMH in June with nonstops to DEN and LAS. Veeeeeeeeeeeeeery interesting...

[Edited 2016-01-11 12:10:36]
 
lakeeffect
Posts: 502
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:41 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:16 pm

If G4 is expanding, you'd think CAK-SFB would be high on their list. I'm actually surprised it hasn't been announced yet.
 
brooklynchris13
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:11 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:34 pm

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 189):
e- Also, after going into the OAG thread on a whim myself, I see FlyCMH picked up on F9 supposedly returning to CMH in June with nonstops to DEN and LAS. Veeeeeeeeeeeeeery interesting...

Well you beat me to it. If F9 is making a return, I have to wonder about what would be on their long term goal list if CMH starts to work out. I don't know if MCI would be a candidate again, but MSY, JAX, AUS, MKE, MEM, FLL would seem like possibilities given minimal competition and the growth in CMH coupled with low fuel prices. Who knows, maybe you could see thoughts of SAN, SFO, and SEA.
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
Posts: 5430
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:37 pm

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 191):
I don't know if MCI would be a candidate again, but MSY, JAX, AUS, MKE, MEM, FLL would seem like possibilities given minimal competition and the growth in CMH coupled with low fuel prices. Who knows, maybe you could see thoughts of SAN, SFO, and SEA.

I wonder if we might have found our airline that's game for CMH-SEA if this is true.
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
Posts: 5430
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:12 pm

Apparently G4 LCK-JAX isn't happening, but CMH is about to be overrun by wild animals.  

F9 CMH-DEN, LAS, MCO, PHL start June 1. DEN & LAS are daily, MCO and PHL 3 times a week.
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2390
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:15 pm

G4 continues to roll in the new service from CVG (all 2x weekly for now):

CVG-VPS
CVG-BWI

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/allegi...kicks-off-19-routes-110000939.html

What's neat to see is the continued addition of non-beach destinations from CVG, as well as other cities on the route map. Any large city pair from CVG is potential fair game for G4 now, it seems. Florida panhandle access via Destin/Fort Walton is fantastic as well. I'd like to see VPS turn into yet another focus operation for G4.


F9 continues expanding by re-introducing service to CMH for a third time. Service starts June 1:

CMH-DEN 1x daily
CMH-LAS 1x daily
CMH-MCO 3x weekly
CMH-PHL 3x weekly

It looks like F9 did some homework on these routes; I for one am pretty hopeful for their success. Current service to DEN is 2x daily on UA with an Airbus/E70 mix and 1 daily on WN, bumping up to 2x daily during the summer. The niche F9 will fill is currently there is no ULCC service from Central Ohio to anywhere on the West Coast. F9 will be able to fill that niche not only with ULCC fares to DEN but major connection points on the West Coast. Will CMH-DEN be able to support 4-5x daily service? We'll have to wait and see.

Additional LAS service is a long time coming. CMH-LAS has always been a strong top-10 market from CMH. With 2x daily WN service, the market has been lacking. I personally thought it'd be G4 that brought increased service to LAS, but am more than happy to see F9 fill the need. In addition, the flight will be a late evening departure from CMH and a red-eye back - a perfect schedule for LAS which HP filled nicely back in the hub days of both CMH and LAS.

Much the same can be said about MCO as LAS. Since the WN/FL buyout, Southwest has had a stranglehold on the market. G4 via SFB and DL 1x weekly service has brought a paltry amount of capacity back, but the market was in need of another player. My thought was that DL might bump their service to daily ala IND but, again, it's great to see F9 take a whack at it.

It seems like F9 wants to be serving the Central Ohio - Southwestern PA/Central Jersey market no matter what! CMH-TTN was one of the original market attempts by F9 to make Trenton work as a focus city. The route was served 2-3x weekly and was a flop. WN served CMH-PHL 2x daily up until late 2009. Neither service elicited any response from US. The odds seem against them, but there has to be some semblance of opportunity on the route for so many goes at it!

Overall, it's definitely great to have the animal tails back in CMH. Welcome back Frontier.
 
CMHMarc787
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:09 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:25 pm

Am I missing something? I can't find any news outlet saying F9 is returning to CMH; nothing on F9 website, nothing on flycolumbus.com

I'm quite happy to have the animals back to CMH...just would love to read about it.

Thanks...
 
CMHMarc787
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:09 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:28 pm

NEVER MIND...just caught it in the Columbus Dispatch.

dispatch.com/content/stories/business/2016/01/12/Frontier-Port-Columbus.html

[Edited 2016-01-12 07:29:26]
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
Posts: 5430
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:59 pm

F9's not fooling around on CMH-MCO, either. It's an A321 right out of the gate.

Their flights will run the gamut of F9 metal, too. DEN and LAS are an A319, while PHL is an A320, to go along with the 321.

e- PHL is $19 each way. I wish that plane touched CMH and had to return before going somewhere else so it could be a day trip, because I'd be on that like white on rice to go for a plane ride and try out the F9 experience.

[Edited 2016-01-12 08:03:48]

[Edited 2016-01-12 08:04:11]
 
brooklynchris13
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:11 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:17 pm

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 197):
F9's not fooling around on CMH-MCO, either. It's an A321 right out of the gate.

Their flights will run the gamut of F9 metal, too. DEN and LAS are an A319, while PHL is an A320, to go along with the 321.

This could be a very interesting development. As you said, there are some pretty big opportunities in the CMH market, Southwest couldn't expect to hold onto such a giant chunk forever (MCO, LAS, etc). This also makes sense from a growth standpoint for F9... start with the big markets out of CMH, gain awareness and presence, then start adding frequency (DEN) and other destinations. Quite a different approach from starting with MCI and maybe an indication that they will be much more successful this time around.

I would assume they are going to the end of B, opposite end from UA & AC (in the old land of Eastern, Northwest, and American) but does anyone know for certain yet?
 
DeltaRules
Topic Author
Posts: 5430
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:28 pm

I had a draft saved of a post talking more about LCK's terminal, including interior pics from an old trip report. It was intended for a slow point in the thread which, fortunately, isn't happening right now. If there's interest, I'll re-write it and post it later...I lost it in copy/pasting stuff to update CMH's Wikipedia page.

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 198):
This could be a very interesting development. As you said, there are some pretty big opportunities in the CMH market, Southwest couldn't expect to hold onto such a giant chunk forever (MCO, LAS, etc). This also makes sense from a growth standpoint for F9... start with the big markets out of CMH, gain awareness and presence, then start adding frequency (DEN) and other destinations. Quite a different approach from starting with MCI and maybe an indication that they will be much more successful this time around.

I would assume they are going to the end of B, opposite end from UA & AC (in the old land of Eastern, Northwest, and American) but does anyone know for certain yet?

This definitely seems like they're taking a swing at WN as opposed to the legacies for the most part, with DEN, LAS, and MCO all served by them. It also, in theory, goes after G4 (who might not be bothered by it and eventually start LCK-LAS anyway). Do you see UA throwing more mainline metal on DEN to even things out size-wise, FlyCMH? As I discussed upthread, FL coming to town snapped DL right out of RJ crap to ATL.

Somebody said they pulled B36's jetway, which is where they were before. I'd imagine it may not be a big deal to put it back in place. (Is anyone "officially" using B35 at this point? I got lost with what UA ended up with following the UA/AA shuffle).

C46, 47, and 49 are also open.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos