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DeltaRules
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The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:09 am

Been a few months since we've had one of these threads, so I figured I'd start one up to see what's new in the Buckeye State. As with before, use this thread for CMH, LCK, CAK, YNG, TOL, DAY, CVG, and PKB. CLE has (and has long had) its own threads.

Recent highlights (I'm aware of):
-CAK is gaining EWR (UA), LGA (US/AA), LAS (WN), and PGD & FLL (G4) service over the next couple months, while WN pulls down BOS, LGA, DEN, and DCA nonstops.
-CMH has had fairly consistent daily 757 service to ATL on DL, continuing into the Fall, has 2x daily mainline to DEN on UA, and had BOS and OAK service on WN start earlier this month. The South ticket lobby re-do recently debuted and looks amazing. There's also a gate shuffle going on, with AA taking everything on the vertical part of the "T" on Concourse B.
-There hasn't been much about CMH's push for TATL service lately, but I'd imagine it's still going.
-LCK's Emirates SkyCargo service is off and running. G4 hasn't added anything in a bit, but it wouldn't surprise me to see more at some point.

Anything else which sticks out, feel free to add.
 
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AirportRival
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:22 pm

DHL is in the middle of a $108 million expansion at CVG which should add 16 more widebody gates I believe. When I was working there the rumor was that they were being added primarily for more B777 and B747 parking spots. As a CVG spotter I really hope that is true.

[Edited 2015-08-24 14:25:14]

[Edited 2015-08-24 14:25:43]
 
N415XJ
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:00 pm

Quoting DeltaRules (Thread starter):

-There hasn't been much about CMH's push for TATL service lately, but I'd imagine it's still going.

I'd love to hear more about potential TATL service. Last I heard BA might happen sometime in 2016, but wasn't there also something about AA service to LHR with 757s? Also, if CLE can't support TATL flights, and CVG only has DLs CDG service because of their hub there, what's the business case for CMH-LHR service?
 
flyDTW1992
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:11 pm

Quoting AirportRival (Reply 1):
DHL is in the middle of a $108 million expansion at CVG which should add 16 more widebody gates I believe. When I was working there the rumor was that they were being added primarily for more B777 and B747 parking spots. As a CVG spotter I really hope that is true.

That's what we've heard at K4 ops. More and more 747 and 777 ops has put a strain on parking, it'll be a worthwhile expansion.
 
bluejackets
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:16 pm

Well first of all, it's good to be back on the forums. Been quite a long layoff (layover?) for me.

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 2):
I'd love to hear more about potential TATL service. Last I heard BA might happen sometime in 2016, but wasn't there also something about AA service to LHR with 757s? Also, if CLE can't support TATL flights, and CVG only has DLs CDG service because of their hub there, what's the business case for CMH-LHR service?

I'm not sure why, but I've been getting a better feeling lately about this actually happening. AA to LHR on 757s seems to make the most sense. There would have to be a fair amount of connecting traffic, however. I could see a 757 helping to serve secondary routings to PHX, LAX, MIA, LGA, DCA and even ORD. AA has been growing steadily in CMH and this could really be a strong show of commitment.

After recently flying myself and having friends fly from from the East Coast to LHR, the 757 just makes perfect sense from a market like CMH. I think AA's newer 757s could definitely be a hit on the route. A shorter, more streamlined boarding and deplaning process for international travel, comfortable interior and it's the right kind of capacity for a route like this.

The business market is strong in CMH right now and I can see it just dying for the link to Europe to expand a lot of business models and potential growth.

The timing finally seems right for an established CMH carrier to jump on the potential with the right fuel-efficient aircraft.
 
flyguy89
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:55 am

Quoting AirportRival (Reply 1):
DHL is in the middle of a $108 million expansion at CVG which should add 16 more widebody gates I believe. When I was working there the rumor was that they were being added primarily for more B777 and B747 parking spots. As a CVG spotter I really hope that is true.

Indeed, very glad to see DHL doing so well at CVG. This, coupled with continued passenger growth (a whopping 10% increase in July), the announcement of G4 establishing a base of operations and PSA bringing a maintenance base to the airport, CVG has been on a real roll lately!

Quoting bluejackets (Reply 4):
AA to LHR on 757s seems to make the most sense.

The 757 would be perfect for CMH-LHR, CMH's clear advantage over cities farther west is its geography bringing it within 757 range of Western Europe. However, the idea of AA launching LHR- Secondary US markets with 757's has been tossed around for quite a few years now with plenty of prime candidates in CMH, IND, CLE, DTW, PIT...etc. I would think if this was an operation they were interested in, they would have jumped on it already. They just don't seem willing to commit coveted LHR slots to it unfortunately.
 
flyCMH
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:02 pm

Some other news from CMH:


Lane Aviation has opened a CBP facility for general aviation aircraft. This will allow international corporate travelers to pass through immigration and customs without having to visit the passenger terminal:

http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/...ustoms-facility-boosts-city-s.html

The original 1920s-era terminal is being saved and converted into the headquarters of a local bank:

http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/...l-terminal-to-see-new-life-as.html

A new retail concept inspired by the Short North arts district will be built in the retail hall before the B Concourse TSA checkpoint. It joins other recent local additions to the retail and concessions concept as CMH including Eddie George's Grill 27 and Bob Evans:

http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/...tailers-getting-space-at-port.html

Southwest recently started new service to OAK, bringing CMH up to 30 nonstop destinations. Here's how CMH compares to other airports across Ohio:

http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/...-columbus-30-nonstops-see-how.html
 
flyDTW1992
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:14 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 5):
with plenty of prime candidates in CMH, IND, CLE, DTW, PIT...etc.

I think you're right about all but DTW there. With 2x daily DTW-LHR between DL and VS, and any number of 1-stop options like JFK, BOS, ATL, etc. I don't think there's any reason AA would want to throw resources into that losing battle. Not that it wouldn't be nice to see something like that.
 
ContnlEliteCMH
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:57 pm

Quoting flyCMH (Reply 6):
The original 1920s-era terminal is being saved and converted into the headquarters of a local bank:

http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/....html

This is exciting! I was hoping the old terminal wouldn't be razed.
 
DeltaRules
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:22 pm

I believe AA will be the largest airline in terms of frequencies at CMH once October 17th rolls around, leapfrogging longtime back-and-forth leaders WN and DL.

I think the AA 757 discussion came from the thread which discussed the original Dispatch story. Some people suggested a BA 787 might be too much, but a 757 might fit the bill. I saw an archived FlyerTalk thread not long ago which said CRAA and NW were in talks for CMH-AMS in 2007 on a 757, with the former location of Mulligan's Restaurant on C being turned into a WorldClub. It would've made sense with some of the TATL flights run by NW (BDL-AMS comes to mind).

Casual observation seems to show that CRAA is willing to throw incentives toward airlines willing to try service to check items off their service wish list. They wanted the Bay Area and got it, although I always though it'd be UA to SFO; IIRC, I think OAK is subsidized, though WN later came out and said they think it'll be able to stand on its own in time.
 
flyguy89
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:19 am

Quoting flyDTW1992 (Reply 7):
I think you're right about all but DTW there. With 2x daily DTW-LHR between DL and VS, and any number of 1-stop options like JFK, BOS, ATL, etc. I don't think there's any reason AA would want to throw resources into that losing battle.

Well BA flew the route until fairly recently, so there certainly isn't an insignificant amount of OW traffic to be had there. I've seen it tossed about that with their JV, AA entering the market with a 757 would be a more viable return to that market than a BA wide-body.
 
ncflyer
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:59 pm

Hate to say it Ohioans but I'm afraid that the BA announcement on SJC kills any hope I had for a new BA flight in the region any time in the real near future--- be it to CMH, CLE, CVG, PIT, STL (OK not exactly the region but I consider STL a soul mate with the rust belt). I think SJC was a very clever choice on BA's part. You just know there has to be boatloads of $$ to buy first class seats compared to many other destinations in the USA, including any in OH or nearby.
 
flyDTW1992
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:13 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 10):
Well BA flew the route until fairly recently, so there certainly isn't an insignificant amount of OW traffic to be had there. I've seen it tossed about that with their JV, AA entering the market with a 757 would be a more viable return to that market than a BA wide-body.

Good point. I would have to wonder if we'd first see something like a DTW-LAX from AA, which has been brought up from time to time. There's certainly some opportunity for growth with the merger and available space at DTW.
 
B4REAL
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:29 am

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 9):
but a 757 might fit the bill. I saw an archived FlyerTalk thread not long ago which said CRAA and NW were in talks for CMH-AMS in 2007 on a 757, with the former location of Mulligan's Restaurant on C being turned into a WorldClub. It would've made sense with some of the TATL flights run by NW (BDL-AMS comes to mind).

I still wonder what will happen up there. I go to the 2nd level of C often, nothing up there. The Mulligan's space is gone, boarded up and it is the perfect spot for a small SkyClub - like what IND/MKE/BNA/MSY have.

There is a Turner construction office up there, but I don't think it is active construction.

DL sent email recently about the SFO and LAX SkyClubs being remodeled (and now open I think by now) and mentioned that 2016 will see "new" SkyClubs. And I hope new means new cities, not just more in ATL/JFK/SEA LOL.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:35 am

Quoting ncflyer (Reply 11):



Hate to say it Ohioans but I'm afraid that the BA announcement on SJC kills any hope I had for a new BA flight in the region any time in the real near future--- be it to CMH, CLE, CVG, PIT, STL (OK not exactly the region but I consider STL a soul mate with the rust belt).

Is STL now the largest MSA in the US without a scheduled TATL route? I'm thinking it is though I could be wrong. I wonder if FI should be looking at markets like STL, CMH, IND etc....
 
flyinryan99
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:22 pm

Toledo July 2015 passenger statististics were essentially flat over July 2014.

Allegiant - 8,525 1.4%
American Airlines operated by Envoy Airlines - 6,900 (5.1%)
Total Airport - 15,661 (1.6%)

Year to date - 115,611 1.8%

August and September will show increases as Allegiant will be flying Orlando year round. Rest of the year should be fairly flat with 2014.

So no news is good news, I guess....
 
DeltaRules
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:21 am

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 13):
DL sent email recently about the SFO and LAX SkyClubs being remodeled (and now open I think by now) and mentioned that 2016 will see "new" SkyClubs. And I hope new means new cities, not just more in ATL/JFK/SEA LOL.

With C being DL's house (seven of ten gates now that they use C50), with all the service DL has at CMH, and with cities with less service having one, you'd think a SkyClub might make sense.

CMH could use GIDS at their gates, too. It's amazing how much you'd like the screens to be there when they're not.

Speaking of the two, Delta announced a sponsorship "alliance" with Ohio State (as well as several other schools).

http://news.delta.com/delta-alliances-9-colleges-reach-campus-life
 
B4REAL
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:24 am

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 16):
CMH could use GIDS at their gates, too. It's amazing how much you'd like the screens to be there when they're not.

Agree, because I'm surprised how many gate changes we have (or DTW delays!) that get people confused.

But I really want a SkyClub in CMH.
 
DeltaRules
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:43 pm

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 14):

Is STL now the largest MSA in the US without a scheduled TATL route? I'm thinking it is though I could be wrong. I wonder if FI should be looking at markets like STL, CMH, IND etc....

Wikipedia says it's CLE, STL, SAC, MCI, CMH. If you go by metro population, it's SAT, JAX, IND, CMH, ELP.

One argument in favor of smaller cities and AA/BA was the possibility of onward connections. FI taking advantage through that with KEF as the hub instead of LHR would be intriguing as all hell. "You may not have heard of us, but you want to go to Europe, we come to your town, and can take you there!"
 
joeman
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:21 pm

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 18):
Wikipedia says it's CLE, STL, SAC, MCI, CMH

I think that may be based on CSA just for clarification since so many a.netters like to argue over nothing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_areas_of_the_United_States
 
DeltaRules
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:50 pm

I'm really curious to see how Ohio might factor into OneJet's plans, mainly because I'm intrigued by their business model. They recently said they were adding 12 new destinations, of which BNA was the first. It would probably be down to the 3 C's unless they see opportunity in unserved flights to their current destinations from DAY and CAK.

Looking at the 3 C's and OneJet's current route map (IND, MEM, BNA, PIT, MKE):
-CMH had service to IND years ago and to MEM, PIT, and MKE, but lost those in mergermania. Only WN on BNA currently exists.
-CLE has MKE on UA and BNA on WN, no PIT, IND, or MEM.
-CVG has all but IND on DL.
 
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AirportRival
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:37 am

CVG released the numbers for the month of July. Due to the MLB All-Star Game and the Nascar race there was a YOY increase in enplaned passengers of 10.5%. Local O&D traffic increased by 24.2% which is a record.
 
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AirportRival
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:19 am

Uber and Lyft are both now allowed to operate out of CVG. According to them, it is the only airport in Ohio and Kentucky that has an official operating agreement with Uber.
 
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AirportRival
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:41 pm

Ultimate Air Shuttle is adding service to BKL from LUK. Set to begin 10-26-15 it will be twice daily Monday - Friday. It cost $379 roundtrip.
 
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AirportRival
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Sun Sep 06, 2015 2:20 pm

Ohio changes in Enrilia's newest weekly OAG update. Not much for Ohio.

AC CVG-YYZ NOV 1.7>3 DEC 1.7>3 JAN 1.7>3 FEB 1.8>3 MAR 1.7>3
G4 LCK-PIE MAR 0.4>0.3 APR 0.4>0.3 MAY 0.4>0.3
G4 LCK-SFB MAR 0.4>0.3 APR 0.4>0.3 MAY 0.4>0.3
 
flyguy89
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:04 pm

Quoting AirportRival (Reply 24):
Ohio changes in Enrilia's newest weekly OAG update. Not much for Ohio.

AC CVG-YYZ NOV 1.7>3 DEC 1.7>3 JAN 1.7>3 FEB 1.8>3 MAR 1.7>3
G4 LCK-PIE MAR 0.4>0.3 APR 0.4>0.3 MAY 0.4>0.3
G4 LCK-SFB MAR 0.4>0.3 APR 0.4>0.3 MAY 0.4>0.3

Well, Allegiant just released their schedule extension as well. A few notable highlights:

- SAV must have done gang-busters for G4, CVG-SAV returns in February after just a two month suspension. CAK and LCK to SAV both return very early as well when they restart in April.

- CVG and LCK to MSY are also making a return this year, running from February to at least the end of their current schedule in May.

- CVG-AUS makes a very early return in February as well, I could see this going year-round. With their apparent success on these AUS routes, it wouldn't surprise me to see them try LCK-AUS.

- CAK-MYR must not have performed stellar enough however to join in the early April start of some MYR routes, doesn't look slated to return until June. G4 seems keen on building up CAK however, so I suspect CAK-SFB is only a matter of when.

- CVG-LAS kicks up to 5x weekly in January, nearly a three fold increase from their current 2x schedule.

Quoting AirportRival (Reply 23):
Ultimate Air Shuttle is adding service to BKL from LUK. Set to begin 10-26-15 it will be twice daily Monday - Friday. It cost $379 roundtrip.

I think this is a great route for them, I don't believe there have been flights between Cleveland and Cincinnati priced to market in at least a couple decades. The drive between the two cities is just long enough to make taking a nonstop flight an attractive option, and at $379 r/t, very reasonably priced.
 
miaami
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:05 pm

Noticed AA is up gauging CMH-MIA. Effective December 1 2015 both non-stops will be operated by Rebublic with 175s
 
bluejackets
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:56 pm

Quoting miaami (Reply 26):
Noticed AA is up gauging CMH-MIA.

This helps to further fuel potential for a future AA CMH-LHR flight.
 
flyCMH
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:09 am

Quoting miaami (Reply 26):
Noticed AA is up gauging CMH-MIA. Effective December 1 2015 both non-stops will be operated by Rebublic with 175s

FINALLY! I've been waiting for this for a while.

Quoting bluejackets (Reply 27):
This helps to further fuel potential for a future AA CMH-LHR flight.

If that were the case, PIT, IND, SDF, GSO, etc would have nonstop to LHR already (all have had their MIA service upgauged to E75s for several months now)!
 
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AirportRival
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:45 pm

Quoting bluejackets (Reply 27):
This helps to further fuel potential for a future AA CMH-LHR flight.

Calm down. This is happening everywhere.
 
bluejackets
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:49 pm

Quoting flyCMH (Reply 28):
If that were the case, PIT, IND, SDF, GSO, etc would have nonstop to LHR already (all have had their MIA service upgauged to E75s for several months now)!

Point taken, but what I'm seeing from AA in CMH looks more and more like a focus city everyday. 5x daily to DFW, 2x PHX, LAX and upgauging MIA.

I'm just saying it looks more possible now than ever before.
 
B4REAL
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:32 pm

Quoting bluejackets (Reply 30):
Point taken, but what I'm seeing from AA in CMH looks more and more like a focus city everyday. 5x daily to DFW, 2x PHX, LAX and upgauging MIA.

I'm just saying it looks more possible now than ever before.

It is a substantial investment in the market. If the remodels weren't mostly done in CMH's B concourse, I'd not be surprised to see an AAdmiral's club. DL needs to take the second level now for a SkyClub in C concourse or it won't happen. I know that the Turner construction office is in that space now, but we'll see what happens when the main remodel is finished.
 
flyguy89
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:11 am

Quoting bluejackets (Reply 30):
Quoting flyCMH (Reply 28):
If that were the case, PIT, IND, SDF, GSO, etc would have nonstop to LHR already (all have had their MIA service upgauged to E75s for several months now)!

Point taken, but what I'm seeing from AA in CMH looks more and more like a focus city everyday. 5x daily to DFW, 2x PHX, LAX and upgauging MIA.

I'm just saying it looks more possible now than ever before.

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but it's a bit of stretch to call AA flying to all of its hubs (and nothing additional) looking like a focus city. I think you'd have a better case to make with DL, who flies to nearly all of its hubs from CMH in addition to a handful of non-hub routes.

As for CMH-LHR on AA? It would be great if they started putting their 757's to work like that, however I'm not holding my breath. The idea has been tossed around for ages, but nothing has come of it unfortunately.
 
HNL
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:34 am

deleted - that was the AA762 not the 763.

[Edited 2015-09-07 20:37:14]
 
miaami
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:22 am

AA is also moving their nonstop CMH-LAX from early evening to a morning departure starting in December.

CMH LAX 845A 1055A

return is a little later too

LAX CMH 1200N 722P
 
bluejackets
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:45 am

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 32):
As for CMH-LHR on AA? It would be great if they started putting their 757's to work like that, however I'm not holding my breath.

I tend to agree there. It would take a serious "outside of the box" mentality to make it happen. I've shrugged off the suggestion since 2008 or so, but I feel like it's at least a good time to bring this discussion to those who are the most opinionated.

I think with the diverse business market of Columbus, which includes many Fortune 500 companies as has been discussed here before, someone could be pleasantly surprised with a customer base that would gravitate toward the service and the airline that would provide it. CMH has long been a competitive market but DL and WN seem to be breaking away from the pack at the moment.

Whether airline economics say it's a good move or not is ultimately what matters, but that can be unpredictable.
 
DeltaRules
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:17 pm

Quoting AirportRival (Reply 23):
Ultimate Air Shuttle is adding service to BKL from LUK. Set to begin 10-26-15 it will be twice daily Monday - Friday. It cost $379 roundtrip.

I was amazed that there isn't service between Cincinnati and Cleveland from anyone other than Greyhound. Ohio's a bigger state than people think.

Quoting miaami (Reply 26):
Noticed AA is up gauging CMH-MIA. Effective December 1 2015 both non-stops will be operated by Rebublic with 175s

I figured this was a matter of time given the Republic maintenance base at CMH. Good to see. I like the 145, but not for that long a flight.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 25):
CVG-AUS makes a very early return in February as well, I could see this going year-round. With their apparent success on these AUS routes, it wouldn't surprise me to see them try LCK-AUS.

I'm waiting for LCK-LAS/IWA. I figure they'll take a run at WN at some point.
 
masseybrown
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:31 pm

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 36):
I was amazed that there isn't service between Cincinnati and Cleveland from anyone other than Greyhound. Ohio's a bigger state than people think.

Potential traffic exists for CLE-CVG (or BKL-LUK); but 9/11 and the TSA effectively killed short haul O&D flying all over the country.

When you have to arrive at the airport an hour or more before your 45-minute flight, the time saving of flying goes away. If Ultimate, by avoiding the TSA cordon, can make downtown-to-downtown a two-hour trip again, their business will flourish.
 
brooklynchris13
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:13 pm

Hello everyone. In the face of all of the recent developments at CMH, I was curious what the differences are between now and "the good old days" (which for me were the mid 1980s...) So here is a comparison between CMH 1985 and CMH April 4, 2016. This is my first attempt at posting something like this in a forum, so please be kind. If you have any questions or additions, please feel free to add.

CMH Departures 1985
Destinations: 30
Peak Daily Flights: 126
(81 Mainline; 45 Non-Mainline)

Flights by Airline:
Air Virginia: 3X
Allegheny Commuter: 11X
American: 6X
Christman Air: 2X
Comair: 2X
Delta: 9X
Delta Connection: 12X
Eastern: 6X
People Express: 11X
Republic: 11X
Soundair: 3X
TransMidwest: 12(?)
TWA: 16X
United: 5X
UsAir: 17X

Flights by Destination:
ATL Eastern 3X
Delta 5X
BWI UsAir 1X
BOS TWA 1X
CRW TransMidwest 1X
ORD United 5X
American 3X
TWA 2X
CVG Republic 5X
Delta Connection 5X
Delta 1X
CLE Allegheny Commuter 5X
Delta Connection 3X
American 1X
DFW American 2X
DAY TransMidwest 8X
UsAir 2X
TWA 1X
Comair 1X
Delta 1X
DTW Republic 3X
Allegheny Commuter 6X
Delta Connection 1X
Eastern 1X
IND Delta 2X
UsAir 1X
JFK TWA 1X
MCI TWA 1X
SDF Delta Connection 2X
MKE Republic 1X
MSP Republic 2X
LGA TWA 3X
UsAir 2X
EWR People Express 10X
UsAir 3X
MCO Florida Express 2X
Eastern 1X
PHL UsAir 2X
PIT UsAir 4X
Christman Air 2X
ROA Air Virginia 3X
Delta Connection 1X
STL TWA 5X
SRQ People Express 1X
TPA Eastern 1X
YYZ Soundair 3X
Comair 1X
DCA TWA 2X
UsAir 2X
Lima, Ohio TransMidwest (x?)
Mansfield, Ohio TransMidwest (X?)
Parkersburg, WV TransMidwest (X?)

CMH Departures April 2016
Destinations: 30
Peak Daily Flights: 147
(57 mainline; 90 regional)

Total by Airline:
Air Canada…..4X (all regional)
American…….46X (8 mainline; 38 regional)
Delta…………..35X (9 mainline; 26 regional)
Southwest…..37X (37 mainline)
United………..25X (3 mainline; 22 regional)

ATL Delta 8X
Southwest 3X
BNA Southwest 2X
BOS Delta 3X
Southwest 2X
BWI Southwest 4X
CLT American 8X
DAL Southwest 1X
DCA American 6X
Southwest 2X
DEN United 2X
Southwest 1X
DTW Delta 8X
DFW American 5X
EWR United 7X
HOU United 5X
IAD United 4X
JFK Delta 3X
American 2X
LAS Southwest 2X
LAX American 1X
Delta 1X
LGA American 6X
Delta 6X
MIA American 2X
MCO Southwest 4X
MDW Southwest 6X
MSP Delta 4X
OAK Southwest 1X
ORD American 8X
United 7X
PHL American 7X
PHX American 2X
Southwest 1X
RDU Delta 2X
RSW Southwest 3X
STL Southwest 2X
TPA Southwest 3X
YYZ Air Canada Jazz 4X

The most interesting element, from my prospective, is how CMH illustrates the trends of the Airline Industry (consolidation, hub & spoke, etc.) and the reduction in mainline flying. I was unable to find the passenger figures for 1985, but I have a feeling that many of those larger aircraft were not exactly bursting at the seams with flyers when they arrived or departed, so the issue of "capacity discipline" is also reflected here.

Hope my fellow Buckeyes and A-netters enjoy the data.
 
N415XJ
Posts: 911
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:04 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:13 pm

Just a quick question regarding a potential future CMH-LHR flight. Is there any way to find out how many passengers fly on OneWorld-affiliated carriers from CMH-Europe? I always see others posting stats about how many passengers fly between certain cities daily/monthly/yearly but I have no idea where to get them.
 
bluejackets
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:50 pm

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 39):
Is there any way to find out how many passengers fly on OneWorld-affiliated carriers from CMH-Europe?

Good question. I'm sure there are quite a few on BA flights from LHR, though I'm not sure on specifics.
 
PITrules
Posts: 2109
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2000 11:27 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:04 pm

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 38):
. I was unable to find the passenger figures for 1985, but I have a feeling that many of those larger aircraft were not exactly bursting at the seams with flyers when they arrived or departed, so the issue of "capacity discipline" is also reflected here.

In 1985 CMH had roughly 3 million total passengers.
http://www.nonoise.org/library/air/airports.htm

In 2014 CMH had 6.36 million total passengers.

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 38):
CMH Departures 1985
Destinations: 30
Peak Daily Flights: 126
(81 Mainline; 45 Non-Mainline)
Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 38):
CMH Departures April 2016
Destinations: 30
Peak Daily Flights: 147
(57 mainline; 90 regional)

So same number of destinations, double the regional flights*, and slightly more than double the passengers. Interesting comparison.

* On average today's regional aircraft have at least double the capacity of those in 1985
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3442
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:43 pm

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 38):

Very interesting, thanks for putting all of that together! It's incredible how things have changed - nonstop flights to DAY, IND...and even Lima!

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 39):
Just a quick question regarding a potential future CMH-LHR flight. Is there any way to find out how many passengers fly on OneWorld-affiliated carriers from CMH-Europe? I always see others posting stats about how many passengers fly between certain cities daily/monthly/yearly but I have no idea where to get them.

On OW-affiliated carriers? I'm not sure, it would probably take a lot of digging through DOT data. For international PDEW's I, and I know others on this forum, use figures from a 2012 Brookings Institution study (linked below).

For fun, below are the LHR PDEW's for CMH, CVG and CLE...keeping in mind the numbers are from 2011:

CMH: 24
CVG: 36
CLE: 34

http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/aviation
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:21 am

Wow those are some really paltry numbers flyguy88. By my math, you couldn't even come close to filling a 757 to serve all of Ohio, let alone Columbus. OK they are old and maybe they've grown a couple percent a year since then, but a couple percent of tiny is still tiny.

I will grant you there is leakage in PDEW international numbers, sometimes from my home it's far cheaper to buy two separate tickets to get overseas, or to drive to DTW to avoid the connection.

I know BA would carry plenty of LHR connecting travelers but O&D is where the biggest money is made.
 
N415XJ
Posts: 911
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:04 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:06 am

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 42):

CMH: 24
CVG: 36
CLE: 34
Quoting ncflyer (Reply 43):

Wow those are some really paltry numbers flyguy88

Yeah, they're not as big as I thought they'd be. But if we do Western Europe instead of just LHR, that's 114,816 from CMH-Western Europe in 2011, or 2198 per day. Make the flight 4 times a week instead of 7, divide it by 3 (3 major alliances), and that's 183 passengers per 4x weekly 757. Allow for some growth since 2011 (as we were just barely out of the recession by then), and add some passengers driving from CLE and other places around OH, and I'm sure AA could make a flight work. My figuring is extraordinarily rough, of course, but at least it shows that the concept isn't completely outlandish. A BA 787 flight, on the other hand, may be difficult to pull off.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3442
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:30 am

Quoting ncflyer (Reply 43):
Wow those are some really paltry numbers flyguy88. By my math, you couldn't even come close to filling a 757 to serve all of Ohio, let alone Columbus. OK they are old and maybe they've grown a couple percent a year since then, but a couple percent of tiny is still tiny.

You have to keep in mind the market stimulation that would occur with just the existence of a nonstop flight in a market (I believe I've heard at least 30% stimulation is the norm) and the fact that the flight would carry connecting traffic to Europe/Africa/Middle East and the numbers quickly balloon. The question is, to what number and at what fares?

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 44):
But if we do Western Europe instead of just LHR, that's 114,816 from CMH-Western Europe in 2011, or 2198 per day.

Exactly, LHR is a huge hub and most traffic would be connecting.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:52 am

I'm not holding my breath on any of this math, it's not like BA would lock up anywhere close to 100% of stimulated traffic to Western Europe with a nonstop to London. Many would prefer to connect in the U.S. rather than LHR to get to their final destination in WesternEurope, LHR is no picnic. Why LHR over DTW, EWR, IAD, ATL, YYZ etc to get to a place like CDG?
 
brooklynchris13
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:11 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:23 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 42):
Very interesting, thanks for putting all of that together! It's incredible how things have changed - nonstop flights to DAY, IND...and even Lima!

My pleasure. Any opportunity to satisfy my inner avgeek is welcomed.

I would be very happy to see an AA flt to LHR, but I still believe that is five years or so out (but I would love to be proven wrong). More likely, I think, will be new Southwest service and, potentially, a new carrier or two at CMH. It wouldn't shock me to see Virgin America and/or Alaska in the next couple of years, but I doubt the scars have fully healed for jetblue.
As for destinations, what does anyone think about new destinations for Southwest from CMH or the possibility of DL starting SEA?

For Southwest, I would nominate MSY, JAX, AUS, MKE, and MCI as potentials...
I could see SEA on DL as a move to discourage AS from entering the market.

Thoughts?
 
krod031
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:49 am

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:30 pm

Something i noticed with CAK... I believe WN will put its first scheduled daily 738 service in there starting 3/10. LAS-CAK-MCO will be operated with the 737-800.
 
bluejackets
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: The Rest Of Ohio, Part 3

Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:37 pm

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 47):
I could see SEA on DL as a move to discourage AS from entering the market.

I personally could see AS jumping in first. With their expansion further eastward and a ramp-up in SEA in the last year or two, I would think CMH would be one of their prime new city candidates.

I just don't know that DL would be willing to commit an aircraft for SEA-CMH, especially still having far less domestic connection opportunities than AS.

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 47):
For Southwest, I would nominate MSY, JAX, AUS, MKE, and MCI as potentials...

I could certainly see MCI as a gateway further west. AUS and JAX possibly, but I see MSY and MKE as least likely fits.

All are good proposals as we look forward to the future at CMH!

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