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AviationAddict
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Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:48 am

I know this is a morbid subject so let me apologize straight away but, accident reports/investigations have always intrigued me and the Smithsonian Channel's Air Disasters is one of my favorite TV shows. I just watched the most recent episode about JAL 123 which led me to do a quick search for lists of the deadliest air accidents. Three aircraft types stood out during my search as consistent repeat offenders in serious accidents: the 747 (particularly the early -100 & -200 series), the 727 and the A300. The DC-10 and DC-8 also appeared often.

All this leads me to my question which is actually three parts:

1. What aircraft type has the most accidents associated with it?

2. What aircraft type has the most fatalities associated with it? (I'm pretty sure this one will be the 747).

3. What aircraft type has directly led to the most accidents? Take weather, pilot/human/MX issues out of the mix and focus solely on the aircraft itself.
 
bluejuice
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:56 am

No facts to backup my guess but I would say the civil aircraft involved in the most accidents is the 737 family. Of course the 737 is one the most produced aircraft ever. Per capita for miles flown, it is probably one of the safest.

[Edited 2015-08-30 19:56:52]
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Viscount724
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:59 am

Some research on this site will answer your questions.
http://aviation-safety.net/

Total fatalities (all reasons including terrorism etc.):

737 - 4,860
727 - 4,205
747 - 3,742

I expect those are the top 3. You can easily find that data by clicking the aircaft type and then click the "Loses and fatalities" link.

[Edited 2015-08-30 20:18:03]

[Edited 2015-08-30 20:19:46]
 
JAAlbert
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:48 am

I can see the 747 being up there since it carries so many people, but the 737 - that's a lot of folks. It would be interesting to see the break down of causes for all those lost souls.

The 727 was a great aircraft, but it had a rocky start - several crashes within a year or so of entry into service.

Interesting topic, but in all, I think looking at data going back prior to 2000 isn't all that helpful in determining aircraft safety. Airlines are so much more safer today than 20 even years ago and certainly since the 60s.
 
32andBelow
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:21 am

Also, a lot of 747 deaths are attributed to just ONE accident, which was no fault of the aircraft.

[Edited 2015-08-30 21:21:29]
 
peanuts
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:09 am

Quoting AviationAddict (Thread starter):
repeat offenders

It would be interesting to know which cars(Make and Model) are the biggest repeat offenders of all death and destruction...



Anyway:

1. maybe a Soviet era airplane (we'll never know). Or Cessna 150/152/172's.

2. the plane that flew the most (number of flights and passengers) in its era. So likely 737

3. if we take most factors out of the mix like you asked, including war/terror/pilot error/maintenance/weather, there's not much left. Maybe the planes that were part of the progression of learning and development: de Havilland Comet maybe?
 
mmo
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:10 am

For a very interesting read, check out the Boeing Statistical Summary. It is published every year and the next one should be out shortly. Airbus produces a similar document.

http://www.boeing.com/resources/boei.../company/about_bca/pdf/statsum.pdf

The nice thing is the data available in accident rate/departures and total fatalities.
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rwessel
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:14 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 3):

I can see the 747 being up there since it carries so many people, but the 737 - that's a lot of folks. It would be interesting to see the break down of causes for all those lost souls.

Through the end of July, there have been 8636 737s delivered, and a 1510 747s, some 5.7 times as many 737s. Add to that the relative average flight lengths for the two airframes, 737s have probably flown 15-20 times as many flights as 747s.
 
peanuts
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:29 am

Quoting mmo (Reply 6):

The three key things I picked up from there:

B707 accident rate. Airlines were pioneering around the globe with this type. Many lessons were learned.

F-28 high accident rate. This plane was popular in Third World countries. (maybe the dutch government made special deals through development aid, practically giving these planes away, who knows). Infrastructure and training issues has dogged this plane in those high risk (mountains, deserts) areas.

The fatality rate in cruise phase is high. Conventional wisdom says it's the safest phase. No more. (we've had a few deranged pilots lately, rockets and mid-air's).

(although a deranged pilot issue would be considered Final Approach? Landing? Not sure...)

[Edited 2015-08-30 22:33:35]
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:35 am

I saw on the Smithsonian Channels Concorde special that Concorde had a ton of maintenance problems in its day and a few close-calls before the AF crash. One incident they mention is shortly after TO from IAD, a pax noticed a hole that appeared in the wing and got the attention of the crew and they eventually landed safely. The show mentioned that Concorde was so high maintenance that it had a really low safety record because of that, and then the AF crash happened which sealed its fate.

If you want to compare number of flight hours to crashes and use that as a ratio to base "Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)", then Concorde would almost certainly be on there, if we exclude it to commercial airliners.
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Max Q
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:43 am

The L1011 never had a design caused accident, pretty impressive and it says a lot about the design.


The DC10 and MD11 safety record was not so good, out of proportion to other widebodies.
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LAX772LR
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:04 am

Statistically, Concorde has got to be up there among the worst.

While I know someone's going to jump in with "....but but but, it only had one crash in 27yrs service!!!!", with so few frames, so few cycles, so few ASKs/RSKs, etc-- it NEVER should've had one.

If the world 737 fleet had an equivalent amount of W/Os as the world Concorde fleet, we would've lost nearly 400 of them by now.

Sucks to say, but that 1 crash statistically took it from being one of the safest, to one of (if not THE) least safe thing flying in a long time.  
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b747400erf
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:12 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 11):
it NEVER should've had one.

The risk is higher with state of the art pushing the envelope airplanes.
 
David L
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:43 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 11):
Sucks to say, but that 1 crash statistically took it from being one of the safest, to one of (if not THE) least safe thing flying in a long time

Which just goes to show how easily statistics can be misused. The most significant conclusion to be drawn is that there's insufficient data to draw any other conclusions from that one data point.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 11):
it NEVER should've had one.

The chances of rolling a dice and getting a six is one in 6. If you only roll it five times you should never get a six. Does that sound right to you? Now roll the dice six thousand times and compare.
 
AR385
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:44 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 10):
The L1011 never had a design caused accident, pretty impressive and it says a lot about the design.

I would argue the autopilot (ALT/HOLD) design was faulty in that it disengaged with minimal yoke pressure and allowed the plane to drift down in that infamous Everglades crash.
 
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:44 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 11):

I suppose that's a problem with trying to do a statistical analysis on a small sample size. One can draw all kinds of extreme (and inaccurate) conclusions when you're looking at a small population. A single event could easily be an outlier, but with only 16 planes and relatively few hours, of course that one is going to look worse than some other type.

Had the Concorde been built and flown in the same numbers as the 737, it's not reasonable to expect the same rate. It's entirely possible that a similar event could have occurred, and possibly even sooner, but then such flaws as led the plane to be vulnerable probably would have been identified sooner and fixed sooner.

On the other hand, suppose only 16 737s had been built, and they managed to fly until the early 1990s when suddenly the flaw in the rudder design caused one or two to crash. Then you'd be saying the same thing about the 737's record.
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ZaphodHarkonnen
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:03 am

There's also the issue that safety regulations have drastically improved over the years. Such that older designs that have been grandfathered in would never get from scratch approval today.

So while earlier aircraft may have crashed more they were inherently less safe designs.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:11 am

I've heard the Mitsubishi MU2 is up there.

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Bongodog1964
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:30 am

There can only be one winner in the deadliest commercial aircraft category - The Comet 1/1A. 22 built, 5 hull losses, 4 with 100% casualties.
Entirely due to pushing the boundaries of flight into the unknown, Development started in 1943 when the UK had not even flown any production standard jet fighters, and German jet fighters had an engine life of 25 hours.

However to put the losses in context, De Havilands previous commercial plane the Albatros suffered 5 losses out of 7 !!
 
cedarjet
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:30 am

Concorde is the least safe, because it had a fatal design related crash after only a very low number of departures. The global 737 fleet operates the same number of flights in a couple of days — c. 60,000 — as Concorde operated in her entire career. Even if the 737 has been the type where the most number of people have died, it's still the safest plane ever built, because the fatalities per departure is so low. That's the only statistic that counts.
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stratocruiser
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:38 am

If you were really going to look at this topic objectively, you should exclude all accidents with human or weather related causes, then you might get a more accurate idea of the deadliest types. Before labelling a type as deadly, the accidents associated with it should be directly related to an intrinsic problem in the structure of the aircraft/engines. Having lived near Shannon Airport as a kid, during the era when transatlantic piston airliners used it as a refuelling stop, there appeared to me to be major accidents occurring to inbound or outbound airliners every few months. Many of these were due to technical problems with the aircraft, although a significant proportion were human/weather factor related. Engine failures were particularly common, with it seemed a few aircraft coming into Shannon every week with engine problems. Worldwide, the technical accident rate seemed to remain high in the 60s and 70s particularly with the earlier generations of jetliners, with the 727 and DC-10 particularly coming to mind. There is no doubt that from the 80s onwards, 'technical' safety has improved dramatically to the point that pilots can go through an entire career without experiencing an engine failure and most accidents now appear to have human or weather related causes.
 
Max Q
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:39 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):
I would argue the autopilot (ALT/HOLD) design was faulty in that it disengaged with minimal yoke pressure and allowed the plane to drift down in that infamous Everglades crash.

That's just ridiculous, there were three Pilots in the cockpit that night and not one of them paid attention to flying the aircraft.



That was the cause of the accident.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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mmo
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:28 am

Worldwide, the technical accident rate seemed to remain high in the 60s and 70s particularly with the earlier generations of jetliners, with the 727 and DC-10 particularly coming to mind.

Actually, the data tends to point in a different direction. From 1962 onwards there was a dramatic decrease in the accident rate. And that was with the introduction of the first generation jet aircraft. Again, take a look at the Boeing Statistical Summary.

Most posters on this thread are really talking without any data to back up their statements. The Stat Sum tends to say quite a different story.
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konrad
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:49 am

Quoting peanuts (Reply 5):
1. maybe a Soviet era airplane (we'll never know). Or Cessna 150/152/172's.

There is enough information available to include Soviet airplanes into the analysis.

My hunch is that Ilyushin 62 would be hard to beat. With a total of 287 produced there are 22 documented hull losses.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/types/Ilyushin-62/index
 
AngMoh
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:05 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 19):

Concorde is the least safe, because it had a fatal design related crash after only a very low number of departures. The global 737 fleet operates the same number of flights in a couple of days — c. 60,000 — as Concorde operated in her entire career. Even if the 737 has been the type where the most number of people have died, it's still the safest plane ever built, because the fatalities per departure is so low. That's the only statistic that counts.

Again - abuse of statistics. Every aircraft has design issues especially considering when it was designed and what the reliability was of the same generation. It is just a matter if you run into them or not. If the oil price had gone up just a little bit earlier, the concorde would have been retired as uneconomical with a perfect safety record.

The fact that the 737-700/800/900 are so safe is significantly a factor of lessons learned from the crashes of earlier generations. The safety record of the 737-100/200 is quite different from that from later generations.

The biggest improvement in safety is the outstanding work of crash investigators. Just compare the Comet-1 with the Comet-4.

And what would the track record have been of the DC-10 if no lessons learned from early crashes? It probably would have been a lot worse than the Concorde.
727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739/ER 742 743 744/M 752 753 762 772 77E 773 77W 788 A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A359 A35K A388 DC-9 DC-10 MD11 MD81 MD82 MD87 F70 ERJ145 E170 E175 E190 E195 ATR72 Q400 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 BAE146 RJ85
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:33 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 19):

Concorde is the least safe, because it had a fatal design related crash after only a very low number of departures.

The Concorde design fault took over 20 years to manifest itself, even then it was one hull loss from a fleet of 14. As mentioned earlier the Comet suffered 5 losses in 2 years

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 24):
The biggest improvement in safety is the outstanding work of crash investigators. Just compare the Comet-1 with the Comet-4.

Some very hard lessons were learnt between Comet 1 and Comet 4, the results of which keep us safe to this day.
 
PlaneInsomniac
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:01 pm

OP:

Quoting AviationAddict (Thread starter):
1. What aircraft type has the most accidents associated with it?
Quoting AviationAddict (Thread starter):
2. What aircraft type has the most fatalities associated with it?
Quoting AviationAddict (Thread starter):
3. What aircraft type has directly led to the most accidents?

Replies:

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 9):
Concorde had a ton of maintenance problems
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 9):
Statistically, Concorde has got to be up there among the worst.
Quoting hOmSAr (Reply 15):

Had the Concorde been built and flown in the same numbers as the 737, it's not reasonable to expect the same rate.
Quoting cedarjet (Reply 19):
Concorde is the least safe

"Welcome to a.net, where reading comprehension is optional."
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Redd
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:06 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 9):
If you want to compare number of flight hours to crashes and use that as a ratio to base "Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)", then Concorde would almost certainly be on there, if we exclude it to commercial airliners.
Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 11):
it NEVER should've had one.
Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 11):
Sucks to say, but that 1 crash statistically took it from being one of the safest, to one of (if not THE) least safe thing flying in a long time.  

I think some Americans are just bitter they did not build an SST at the time on par and on time with the Russians and the Europeans. Of course they could have but Kennedy wanted 'bigger & faster' than the Russians and Europeans which led to the absurd decision of picking the B2707 over the L-2000, which led to redesign after redesign, cost over run after cost over run.

Concorde was a very safe plane that just happened to be a victim of cost savings. The flaw which had caused the downing of 4590 was known well before the accident and if the modifications which had been carried out after the crash had been done before (which they should have and were recommended), the debate of Continental 'bad maintenance' or Concorde 'design flaw' would have never come up leaving a perfect safety record.

As for high maintenance, no kidding. Anything that travels at exceptional speeds requires higher maintenance.

Quoting David L (Reply 13):
Which just goes to show how easily statistics can be misused.

  

Quoting mcoflyer (Reply 17):
I've heard the Mitsubishi MU2 is up there

I've heard that many times before. It's supposed to be a complicated airplane to fly.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 25):
As mentioned earlier the Comet suffered 5 losses in 2 years


  
 
bigb
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:20 pm

Something to keep in mind, we have to factor out accidents that were not caused by error. 737 comes to mind with its rudder problems. I don't think the concorde was unsafe because of debry striking a fuel tank.
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:43 pm

I always felt that some of the worst crashes that we had to deal with were always DC-10 incidents. Totally subjective, but there were some bad, bad crashes in what was basically a 35 to 37 year run in passenger operations (first commercial service in 1971 and winding down by about 2008).
 
rbavfan
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:45 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 10):

Actually the first L1011 crash Eastern airlines was found that the systems did not sync correctly allowing the plane to go into a slow decent while the pilots were trying to solve a landing gear problem. One pilots leg hit the yoke and due to the computers not matching correctly it put it into a slow decent. This system was corrected after the flight & was part of the cause. As such you cannot say the L1011 never had a design caused accident.

Before you jump on me not liking the plane or such. The TriStar & the 146 are my 2 favorite planes to ever fly on.
 
hz747300
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:58 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 5):
1. maybe a Soviet era airplane (we'll never know).

This topic came up before, when the TU154 crash was caught on tape. I think the 737 still had more overall deaths, but in terms of deaths per estimated miles flown the TU154 was worse. I remember someone did the math in the previous thread which was at least a few years ago.
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nikeherc
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:12 pm

The DC-10 was a victim of rush to market and poor human performance. It was fundamentally a great airplane, that was built better than it should have been, then screwed up. A Delta captain who was one of the few pilots to have flown the 747, DC-10 and L1011 in airline service described the three in the following manner: The 747 was a classic, the DC-10 had the best performance and the L1011 was the technological marvel.

Had the DC-10 not been rushed to market, there might have been better, more resilient design of the hydraulic system, the leading edge slats, and the cargo doors. I'm not sure that anybody foresaw the difficulties with the pressure equalization system between the passenger and cargo compartments and the potential for collapse of the floor beams that cause the Turkish accident.

The Chicago accident might have been survivable had the slats not retracted on the left side and cause asymmetric lift at low altitude. Sioux city might have been survivable had all three hydraulic systems not passed through the same plane in the aft fuselage, with out check valves.

Of course, had the cargo door in the Turkish plane been properly closed that crash would not have occurred. Had the engines been changed in the prescribed manner, the Chicago crash might not have occurred. Had GE detected the flaw in the turbine disk, Sioux City would not have happened.

If Douglas had started earlier on the DC-8, they might have captured a larger market share and not lost money. The DC-9 was a winner, but Douglas was still in the hole when they started the DC-10 and felt compelled to beat the L1011 to market, which they did. Of course the L1011 was killed by Rolls Royce being unable to get the RB.211 to market in a timely manner. Thus, nobody made an money on the tri-jets and two companies were badly damaged.

[Edited 2015-08-31 07:14:58]
DC6 to 777 and most things in between
 
747megatop
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:18 pm

Quoting AviationAddict (Thread starter):
I know this is a morbid subject so let me apologize straight away but, accident reports/investigations have always intrigued me and the Smithsonian Channel's Air Disasters is one of my favorite TV shows. I just watched the most recent episode about JAL 123 which led me to do a quick search for lists of the deadliest air accidents. Three aircraft types stood out during my search as consistent repeat offenders in serious accidents: the 747 (particularly the early -100 & -200 series), the 727 and the A300. The DC-10 and DC-8 also appeared often.

All this leads me to my question which is actually three parts:

1. What aircraft type has the most accidents associated with it?

2. What aircraft type has the most fatalities associated with it? (I'm pretty sure this one will be the 747).

3. What aircraft type has directly led to the most accidents? Take weather, pilot/human/MX issues out of the mix and focus solely on the aircraft itself.

MD-11 is surprisingly missing in your list.
 
D L X
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:22 pm

Quoting hOmSAr (Reply 15):


Had the Concorde been built and flown in the same numbers as the 737, it's not reasonable to expect the same rate. It's entirely possible that a similar event could have occurred, and possibly even sooner, but then such flaws as led the plane to be vulnerable probably would have been identified sooner and fixed sooner.

On the other hand, suppose only 16 737s had been built, and they managed to fly until the early 1990s when suddenly the flaw in the rudder design caused one or two to crash. Then you'd be saying the same thing about the 737's record.

I mostly agree, especially that if Concorde had been utilized in numbers like other airliners, there would be lower tolerance for the wing tank vulnerability. But the probability that the 737 would suffer similarly as the Concorde had they similar utilization is something I'm not so sure about. The tank vulnerability was a bad design and an accident waiting to happen.

Someone earlier had a die example where if you only roll the die five times, how many sixes are expected? The answer might be more easily understood as asking what are the chances of NOT rolling a six: not good. Only 16%. Now what if it were two dice, and you want to avoid snake eyes? Well each time it's a 1/36 chance of rolling snake eyes, so you have a 31/36 or 86% chance that you won't roll snake eyes if you roll the dice five times. That's a big jump from 16% to 86%, and it's all because snake eyes are less likely than rolling a six in this example.

So here's how that relates to concordes and 737s. As we now know, Concorde was susceptible to wing tank puncture. Flight 4590 was not the first time it happened, just the first time it led to fatalities. The failure rate there was more akin to missing the six when rolling one die. The 737 rudder hardover though happened extremely rarely--millions of flights occurred before it was even noticed. It is more akin to missing snake eyes.

If there were only 16 737s flying twice a day, we would very likely never ever see the rudder hardover.

You have to consider the probability of the causes not the frequency of the fatalities.
 
777X
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:38 pm

Everyone, don't forget that 65.4321% of statistics are completely made up.
 
bmacleod
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:39 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 33):
MD-11 is surprisingly missing in your list.

Because of one crash SR111?

229 fatalities is a big number but this was due to IFE wiring not the aircraft itself. The other 2 MD-11 crashes were Cargo aircraft 1 of which was fatal.

The DC-10 is another story.....

AA 191- 271 fatalities.
TK 981 - 346 fatalities.
NZ 901 - 257 fatalities.
Western 2605 - 73 fatalities.

And don't forget CO 603... 4 fatalities.

[Edited 2015-08-31 07:46:37]
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peachair
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:53 pm

Of the late model aircraft, I would think it would be worth looking into the Raytheon 390 Premiere 1. We had two crashes in Georgia in a 12 month period I beleive. I know Jack Rousch crashed his in Oshkosh and also several abroad. For a relatively new aircraft there seems to be a lot of loss of hulls for this type.


http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/...s--nLgukObf--/18n8qlhzwggb8jpg.jpg
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:57 pm

Quoting konrad (Reply 23):
My hunch is that Ilyushin 62 would be hard to beat. With a total of 287 produced there are 22 documented hull losses.

And those are just the documented ones. Who knows how many skeletons the Soviets have inside that closet ?
 
AviationAddict
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:59 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 33):

MD-11 is surprisingly missing in your list.

My list was based on a quick skimming of Wikipedia and a few other less than reliable sources which is why I posed the question to the far more knowledgeable folks here on A.net.
 
D L X
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:04 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 36):

Because of one crash SR111?

229 fatalities is a big number but this was due to IFE wiring not the aircraft itself. The other 2 MD-11 crashes were Cargo aircraft 1 of which was fatal.

The DC-10 is another story.....

You also forgot the China Airlines accident at old HKG where the plane broke and rolled over on its back when landing. Amazingly, only a couple passengers died in an inverted crash. But if you ask me, that the MD11 was seemingly susceptible to inverting in landing mishaps was a pretty scary problem. I can think of three such accidents off the top of my head. (HKG EWR and NRT.)
 
incitatus
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:05 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 8):
B707 accident rate. Airlines were pioneering around the globe with this type. Many lessons were learned.

Reading the history of Brazilian airlines, I find amazing how many aircraft were destroyed on accidents in the first couple of years in service - between the mid-50s to the early 70s - including jets and props. It was a combination of factors: Poor pilot training, poor infrastructure, rapidly evolving technology, relatively low aircraft reliability.

Even Varig lost several jets, including the 707 PP-VJB in 1962.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:06 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 8):
F-28 high accident rate. This plane was popular in Third World countries. (maybe the dutch government made special deals through development aid, practically giving these planes away, who knows). Infrastructure and training issues has dogged this plane in those high risk (mountains, deserts) areas.

The Czech L-410 is a thoroughly rugged aircraft, but it has a high rate of accidents, mainly because ofthe conditions it is being flown in third world countries. See here for an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6iLHhq_V5c

Jan
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747megatop
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:13 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 36):
Because of one crash SR111?

229 fatalities is a big number but this was due to IFE wiring not the aircraft itself. The other 2 MD-11 crashes were Cargo aircraft 1 of which was fatal.

No, not because of one crash. If the MD-11 had been used in larger numbers as a passenger aircraft like DC10 or 747classics we would have seen more number of fatalities due to it's tendency to rollover like an SUV   after a hard landing.... a distinction unique to this arcraft type and unbeaten by any other type. Luckily, MD-11 was a failure and never gained popularity.
 
747megatop
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:20 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 36):
AA 191- 271 fatalities.
TK 981 - 346 fatalities.
NZ 901 - 257 fatalities.
Western 2605 - 73 fatalities.

Of these 4 only TK 981 was aircraft fault (design fault to be specific). AA 191 was improper mx procedures.NZ 901 and Western 2605 were flight crew screw ups. Compare that to MD-11's track record of rollover due to hard landing at EWR, NRT and HKG; luckily 2 of them were cargo flights!
 
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exFWAOONW
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:24 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 12):
The risk is higher with state of the art pushing the envelope airplanes.

That is why there were a lot of 707/737/727 DC8 crashes while pilots were transitioning from prop to jet. The new jets didn't accerate out of trouble like the older props could. Because people understood risk better back then, it wasn't seen as a big a problem as it is today.
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brilondon
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:26 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 5):
. maybe a Soviet era airplane (we'll never know). Or Cessna 150/152/172's.
Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 11):
Statistically, Concorde has got to be up there among the worst.

While I know someone's going to jump in with "....but but but, it only had one crash in 27yrs service!!!!", with so few frames, so few cycles, so few ASKs/RSKs, etc-- it NEVER should've had one.

If the world 737 fleet had an equivalent amount of W/Os as the world Concorde fleet, we would've lost nearly 400 of them by now.

Sucks to say, but that 1 crash statistically took it from being one of the safest, to one of (if not THE) least safe thing flying in a long time.  

Was the Concorde crash not due to debris on the runway and not directly due to a mechanical or structural fault?

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 25):
he Concorde design fault took over 20 years to manifest itself, even then it was one hull loss from a fleet of 14. As mentioned earlier the Comet suffered 5 losses in 2 years

The Comet did not see widespread service and did not carry a large number of persons. After the redesign of the window, it flew safely from that point on. If the Comet had not had the design flaw, I would surmise that the aviation world would look much different. In my mind which is not always clear the comet would have given DH the lead in commercial aviation that Boeing, Douglas and Lockheed ended up having.
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AviationAddict
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:27 pm

So to recap my original questions:

Quoting AviationAddict (Thread starter):

1. What aircraft type has the most accidents associated with it?

2. What aircraft type has the most fatalities associated with it? (I'm pretty sure this one will be the 747).

3. What aircraft type has directly led to the most accidents? Take weather, pilot/human/MX issues out of the mix and focus solely on the aircraft itself.

1. The 737 seems to be the undisputed winner.

2. Again, the 737 appears to be the winner (loser). Of course those are unweighted numbers; if you take production totals, hours/segments flown, years in service, etc. into account a few other types seem to rise to the top; Comet, Concorde, DC-10?

3. A few leading contenders seem to be DC-10, Comet, Concorde, 727, MD-11 and IL-62
 
747megatop
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:42 pm

Quoting AviationAddict (Reply 47):
1. The 737 seems to be the undisputed winner.

Which probably can be attributed to the fact that it is the most popular aircraft type perhaps?... & of course combined with the fact that it is in service since 1968? I wonder how the 737 and 320 would compare 1 to 1 right after the 320 entered service in 1988.
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Deadliest Aircraft Type(s)

Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:43 pm

Among all these mentions of the Concorde, did anyone think of the TU-144?

While it didn't kill any passengers, it did, in two crashes, kill a few pilots, engineers and bystanders. Considering it only ever flew a little over 3000 pax and did slightly over 100 commercial flights only, that's a pretty statistically deadly toll as far as airplanes are concerned.

A deeper read into the history of the TU-144 shows how the politically rushed design lead to an inherently unsafe and failure-prone airplane which was a headache to operate for all involved and was only allowed to fly because of political pressure.
Even the soviet-era Aeroflot didn't want to touch the thing with a 10 ft pole until it was forced to, which says a lot...

Shame. Tupolev could have done so much better if they had been given the time and the means.
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