321neoLR
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LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:39 pm

So here we are again......

Is there a future in trans Atlantic narrow body flights, or 6-8 hour flights?

Norwegian has just been quoted that they will send the max tatl.
Aer Lingus operate the 757 tatl, to be replaced by the 321neoLR.
North American Airlines use 757 tatl.

I am no expert, so I ask the question...

Will we see an increase in this type of flying?

If so, will we see ryr, or U2 launch this type of service in the future?

I know a NB could never match the profit per flight of a WB, but is there a market?

And finally, will passengers vote with their feet, and try to book WB?

Thanking you in advance, some great topics and discussions on here.
 
visualapproach
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:48 pm

WestJet have a seasonal B737 service from Dublin to Toronto via St Johns. French airline Europe Airpost also do or did do a 737 service to Halifax.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:55 pm

Quoting 321neoLR (Thread starter):
Will we see an increase in this type of flying?

Yes - more WW (limited by its fleet to east coast), DY with 737 Max, EI as you mentioned, and possibly B6 someday.

Quoting 321neoLR (Thread starter):
If so, will we see ryr, or U2 launch this type of service in the future?

Jet2 (LS) did some charters to JFK and BOS once - I truly was hoping that would have caught on. I wouldn't hold my breath on any of them.

One of the big differences of those carriers versus WW, DY, and FI is that they do not offer connections.

[quote=321neoLR,reply=0]And finally, will passengers vote with their feet, and try to book WB?[/quote

Definitely not - average joe/jane doesn't care
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2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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MrHMSH
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:05 pm

Quoting 321neoLR (Thread starter):
Is there a future in trans Atlantic narrow body flights, or 6-8 hour flights?

There likely is, and if it does happen your namesake will be leading the charge!  
Quoting 321neoLR (Thread starter):
Norwegian has just been quoted that they will send the max tatl.

I read that, but I can't remember the source. Do we know the profile of the routes the MAX will fly?

Quoting 321neoLR (Thread starter):
Aer Lingus operate the 757 tatl, to be replaced by the 321neoLR.

Sounds plausible, but I didn't think EI had placed any recent A321 orders. Maybe once IAG's purchase is confirmed? Eire's position lends itself to the A321neo very nicely.

Quoting 321neoLR (Thread starter):
North American Airlines use 757 tatl.

One imagines that in 500 years when they retire their last 757s something of a similar size will replace them: a lot of the routes are just perfect for the 752, even if they push the range limits. The A321neoLR seems the most likely replacement at the moment, we'll have to see what Boeing's response to the A321neo is (MoM?), nothing in their catalogue really touches it, but the MAX8 may compete indirectly.

Quoting 321neoLR (Thread starter):
If so, will we see ryr, or U2 launch this type of service in the future?

I'd love to see FR and U2 try their hand at TATL. That said, I think the A330/787 would be a more likely option, because while some destinations are in range of the MAX8/A321neo, the A330 and 787 allow not just US East Coast (one imagines is the primary target for a narrowbody TATL frame) and Middle East, but the Far East and US West Coast, and S. America.
 
frostyj
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:14 pm

Quoting visualapproach (Reply 1):

That's not really a proper Long haul flight, it's barely 2,000 miles so I think it would be best to exclude that.

Airlines that could possibly use 737-Max may be United or Southwest from Boston or NYC. Alternatives would be the a321-neo which has been ordered by Jetblue and American.

I would think there is certainly a future for narrowbody transatlantic flights, I can't see United dropping all of their regional routes after so many years, it would be a significant loss of revenue.

Ryanair will also have the aircraft to operate transatlantic.

[Edited 2015-09-06 14:15:24]
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afcjets
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:24 pm

Quoting 321neoLR (Thread starter):
I know a NB could never match the profit per flight of a WB, but is there a market

Let's see if Doug Parker orders and replaces the A330 with two A321 NEO wingtips on TATL flights within range, since he claims it is cheaper to operate two narrowbodies than one widebody, which I don't buy for a minute.
 
32andBelow
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:50 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 5):
Let's see if Doug Parker orders and replaces the A330 with two A321 NEO wingtips on TATL flights within range, since he claims it is cheaper to operate two narrowbodies than one widebody, which I don't buy for a minute.

It's a hell of a lot cheaper when you can cancel 1 of the wingtip departures due to low loads.
 
Burkhard
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:05 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 5):
since he claims it is cheaper to operate two narrowbodies than one widebody, which I don't buy for a minute.

2 A321 have a weight of 150 tons
1 A333 has a weight of 220-240 tons.

So it obvious that the NB have a cost advantage, and 2 fly cheaper than 1 WB.
 
ORDTLV2414
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:12 pm

yes but JFK/EWR is probably the furthest south and west a narrow jet could make it. Also LHR being the furthest east.
 
2travel2know2
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:14 pm

Something in lines of U2 GLA/BFS-YHZ/BOS/PVD or FR DUB-MHT/ISP/SWF perhaps?
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
afcjets
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:24 pm

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 6):
It's a hell of a lot cheaper when you can cancel 1 of the wingtip departures due to low loads.

Unless things have changed, airlines are reluctant to do economic cancellations because of how it affects their DOT statistics and completion factor.
 
frostyj
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:26 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 9):

I can't see Easyjet doing transatlantic. Even if they did i'd go no further than St Johns, their seats are terrible.

Ryanair, Halifax and no further.

[Edited 2015-09-06 15:30:30]
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afcjets
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:29 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 7):
2 A321 have a weight of 150 tons
1 A333 has a weight of 220-240 tons.

So it obvious that the NB have a cost advantage, and 2 fly cheaper than 1 WB.

Thanks for providing the weights, I have been curious for the longest time. Would you also by chance happen to know the difference in pilot pay rates between NB and WB aircraft? I would imagine it is cheaper to dispatch 2 WB pilots as opposed to 4 NB ones. Even though the WB are more senior, if airlines used more WBs domestically (where I feel they would be appropriate in some markets where they are currently lacking), it would close in on the seniority gap.
 
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ADent
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:15 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 7):
2 A321 have a weight of 150 tons
1 A333 has a weight of 220-240 tons

AirAsiaX runs 377 in an A333 and Spirit runs 218 in an A321. So .63 tons/passenger on A333 vs .68 on A321

BTW AirAsia runs 180 in an A320 whereas Sprint only runs 178.


Comparing USAir
291 vs 187 - that gives .79 ton/passenger vs .80.

Seems like the weight per passenger is pretty close, though one would hope for longhaul the A321 seats would be spaced out a bit to create some room. According to SeatGuru the USAir A333 is 31" pitch in the back and the A321 is 32".
 
Viscount724
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:21 pm

Quoting visualapproach (Reply 1):
WestJet have a seasonal B737 service from Dublin to Toronto via St Johns.

Also Glasgow-Toronto via Halifax.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:25 pm

i think UA was super profitable operating 757s until these new LCCs are starting to eat into their fares they could get. Airlines like WOW, Icelandair, Rogue, and airtransit are making the LCC model work across the atlantic. It does limit the fares the others can get, ie making it smarter for them to shift to lower per seat costs on some routes.
 
afcjets
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:31 pm

I think it is only a matter time before WN launches TATL once they get the right 737 for it.
 
S75752
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:29 am

Quoting afcjets (Reply 16):


I think it is only a matter time before WN launches TATL once they get the right 737 for it.

Which would probably be the NSA.

Overall, I'm certain that narrowbody TATL will see more interest, though not higher ranges. We'll see more competition within 3700 Statute miles, which I would say has generally been a reasonable range to expect a 752 to do reliably, with anything above that being at risk for westbound diversions, with the 321LR roughly mirroring that range.

I'm also quite positive that the 321NeoLR will be a much greater success with wider appeal than the 757 was, given that unlike the 757, it won't be so much of an odd-one-out in 320-family operators fleets.

Regarding how interest appears to have been lost more and more for widebody domestic operations, I am particularly curious of when we start seeing higher range narrowbodies (think 767-range 757-sized narrowbody) like the NSA may be, replacing widebodies on more and more long haul operations. Yes, domestic ops are different from international ops... But I still can't help but wonder if given aircraft developments, that trend could spread to allow for more frequencies at more flexible times. (in addition to much longer thin routes to smaller destinations)
 
Abeam79
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:54 am

http://market-robots.com/blog/2015/0...g-haul-airbus-for-growth-overseas/
I think you'll see B6 with the A321LR hoping the pond way before WN even considers it. They just started hoping over the gulf on short haul international which has been struggling with their old res system. And they need to invest in a lot of other things before considering that ala B6 mint for starters. B6 has premium class, offers fine dining, has codeshares in place, upper end econony seating. WN cant hold a candle competing over the pond with peanutes and canned water.

Quoting afcjets (Reply 16):
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:01 am

UA offers many transatlantic flights from EWR heading to Europe every day with the Boeing 757 aircraft.
However, it doesn't fit into the low-cost model.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
tommy1808
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:34 am

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 7):
2 A321 have a weight of 150 tons
1 A333 has a weight of 220-240 tons.

2x A321 are 187 tons, 2x A321neoLR are 194 tons. And to fly TATL they would go out close to or at MTOW.
An A333 would be nowhere near it's MTOW for a 4000nm mission.
The 2x A321neo will have the edge on empty weight though, with just 100 tons. The A333 would have to make up for that with its cargo carrying capacity.
So I guess for some airlines that may be a chance to grow in seats without exploding the belly space.

Best regards
Thomas
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frostyj
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:48 am

I agree with 3,700 miles meaning only the British Isles.
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hibtastic
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:23 am

DY have talked about the 738max opening up routes from the likes of BHX-JFK and EDI-BOS.

http://m.travelweekly.co.uk/Article.aspx?cat=news&id=56471
 
rbavfan
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:52 pm

Quoting ADent (Reply 13):

He was talking fuel burn vs weights of aircraft not passengers. You can't just take the weight of passengers to figure less money to run the flights. The A330's are substantially heavier and as such burn more fuel and have higher maintenance cost associated with them. You have to figure overall weights including passengers & aircraft, fuel burn of each airframe, Also you can factor in can the A330 carry extra cargo thats lost or if cargo is not an viable business option where the flight goes.
 
N1120A
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:04 pm

Quoting visualapproach (Reply 1):

WestJet have a seasonal B737 service from Dublin to Toronto via St Johns. French airline Europe Airpost also do or did do a 737 service to Halifax.

They also do year-round YHZ-EDI and season YHZ-GLA. Europe Airpost's route is a subsidized route that is primarily there to connect up to Air Saint Pierre.

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 7):
2 A321 have a weight of 150 tons
1 A333 has a weight of 220-240 tons.

So it obvious that the NB have a cost advantage, and 2 fly cheaper than 1 WB.

Why would it be obvious that the NB has a cost advantage? Only 2 engines to feed on the A333, compared to 4 on 2 A321s. Further, the A321s couldn't come close the A333 for cargo.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
flyby519
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:58 pm

Quoting 'frostyj':

I agree with 3,700 miles meaning only the British Isles.



BOS-FRA is 3670sm straight line, or 3721sm on the flight plan route. Wouldn't that make much of Western Europe accessible instead of just the British isles?
 
richierich
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:02 pm

This topic comes up every now and again - and I think it is fair to guess that there will be an increase in narrowbody TATL routes, and it will likely become the domain of LCCs as well as the full-service legacy and flag carriers.

On the one hand, it is very easy to lament flying NYC-LON, for example, in a six-abreast narrowbody with limited legroom, and I'm sure there will be some carriers that will cram as many seats in as possible. It may be U2, or even Spirit, or perhaps somebody else, but it is likely as aircraft come on that are designed for this. I'm not saying it will be pretty, but economics and finances will dictate what happens.

On the other hand, narrowbodies across the Atlantic is already being done by lots of airlines today (UA has been doing it for years!) but none of them are a true LCC. While there may not be any majesty in flying a B757 or A321 across the pond, it is not that much further from New York to London that it is from, say, New York to LAX or SFO, and that is the sort of route that is routinely flown by LCCs.
None shall pass!!!!
 
frostyj
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:20 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):

There isn't a route to Edinburgh.
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frostyj
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:24 pm

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 25):

Yes but we have to think about Chicago, PHL, IAD and NYC aswell.

IAD/PHL/CLT are only feasible to LHR
ORD is feasible to DUB and EDI

So really it's only Boston that can reach mainland Europe. I don't think we have any concern on that anyway, United has already put widebodies onto mainland Europe.

In the future I can see them retiring Oslo and Stockholm and replacing British Isles with 737-max9. Actually probably not that far away.
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815Oceanic
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:06 pm

I am very excited to see the MAX 8 go across the Atlantic. At first, Boeing's proposal to send them on long journeys seemed ridiculous but people must have thought that way back when the 757 was introduced across the Atlantic. Imagine the small destinations that could justify a daily MAX 8 across the pond!
 
afcjets
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:17 pm

Quoting Abeam79 (Reply 18):
And they need to invest in a lot of other things before considering that ala B6 mint for starters. B6 has premium class, offers fine dining, has codeshares in place, upper end econony seating. WN cant hold a candle competing over the pond with peanutes and canned water.

I agree B6 would likely enter TATL first, because I doubt WN would do it without a 737, however I don't envision WN adding a premium cabin or even hot meals for that matter, just more elaborate snacks. WN has had consistent growth since their founding and they would double every 5 years. The focus now is the new opportunities at DAL, and there is a lot more domestically they could do too but with 15 hubs and only so many zttractive Caribbean and Latin routes, I think they will eventually go TATL.
 
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AirCbp
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:59 pm

Besides B6 expanding using narrowbodies, David Neeleman has told Brazilan and Portuguese press he plans to add transatlantic destinations to TP network using the A321neoLR, flying from LIS to both the USA and (northeast) Brazil.
 
Viscount724
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:06 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
Quoting visualapproach (Reply 1):

WestJet have a seasonal B737 service from Dublin to Toronto via St Johns. French airline Europe Airpost also do or did do a 737 service to Halifax.


They also do year-round YHZ-EDI and season YHZ-GLA. Europe Airpost's route is a subsidized route that is primarily there to connect up to Air Saint Pierre.

Are you referring to WestJet to EDI? They don't serve EDI. Their existing seasonal routes are YYZ-YYT-DUB and YYZ-YHZ-GLA. DUB started a couple of years ago and GLA this year.
 
2travel2know2
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:26 am

Quoting afcjets (Reply 16):
I think it is only a matter time before WN launches TATL once they get the right 737 for it.

WN only needs to make one, two of its B737-700 ETOPS compliant.
MHT-DUB could be a possible route, even if MHT doesn't have F.I.S. as such, U.S. bound passengers would go thru U.S. Port-of-entry @ DUB.
If WN wants BFS, PIK/GLA and EDI out of New England, then PVD might be the option.
But WN starting service to BGR (underused F.I.S.) just because WN wants U.S.A.-LON/PAR w/B737-700ETOPS is highly unlikely.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:35 am

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 7):
2 A321 have a weight of 150 tons
1 A333 has a weight of 220-240 tons.

So it obvious that the NB have a cost advantage, and 2 fly cheaper than 1 WB.

That's a meaningless comparison. It does not follow that 2 narrowbodies are cheaper to operate than 1 widebody because of the weight difference.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:09 am

Quoting frostyj (Reply 21):
I agree with 3,700 miles meaning only the British Isles.

Not necessarily...
This analysis is based on nautical miles and following strictly a straight line:

EWR-LHR: 3011nm
EWR-LIS: 2941 nm





These routes are flown daily by UA and deploying the 752 narrow-body, among other equipments into the EWR-LHR segment.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
frostyj
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:05 am

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 33):

Certainly, they already have the aircraft to operate Bos-Ireland, however, they will wait to the 737 max before launching tatl.
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321neoLR
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:01 pm

Very interesting comments.

My understanding is that EI have or are in talks with Airbus, (prob through IAG now), about the 321LR. The runway in dub is too short, but if they put in a new one, then it might work.

I know a lot of American carriers fly 757 TATL, but my question is more aimed at the low cost carriers like U2 and FR.

U2 not doing connections may be their downfall, but FR's latest news about feeding with other carriers, might help them get more pax.

I'm sure the low fuel price will slow things down, but it's an interesting topic.

Many thanks for the discussion.
 
airbazar
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:16 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 4):
Airlines that could possibly use 737-Max may be United or Southwest from Boston or NYC.

Southwest?!?!?   
They don't even serve Canada and you expect them to serve Europe? If it wasn't for the AirTran acquisition they wouldn't be serving any international destinations at all. WN is the last airline I would expect to see flying TATL routes.

Quoting afcjets (Reply 16):
I think it is only a matter time before WN launches TATL once they get the right 737 for it.

There is no such thing as a "right 737" for TATL routes.
 
afcjets
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:11 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 38):
There is no such thing as a "right 737" for TATL routes.

The 737 has evolved over last the fifty years and likely will continue to do so, and IMO especially since one of Boeing's largest, stable, loyal, and most successful customers has made it abundantly clear they will only fly one aircraft type. As pointed out above, there is already a 737 with range capabilities from New England to Northern Europe and it's range continues to increase.
 
airbazar
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:04 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 39):
As pointed out above, there is already a 737 with range capabilities from New England to Northern Europe and it's range continues to increase.

Having the range doesn't mean it will be economically feasible to do it. The 737-700ER has the range today and how many TATL flights from New England to Northern Europe do you see on it? Zero. And that's to say nothing about the reduced range a LCC all-Y config'd 738max.
Yes the 738max will be about 15% cheaper to operate compared with a 752 so you would expect it to replace some 752 routes but again we're back the same question: how many 752 routes do you have today from New England to Europe? Not many. KEF and Ireland. FI has ordered the MAX and EI is expected to order the A321.
 
barney captain
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:20 pm

Mr. Kelly has stated that all Intl expansion will be South. I don't expect to see TATL service anytime soon. Likely, HI will happen long before Europe.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
frostyj
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:29 pm

TATL doesn't always mean mainland Europe.

Range from Boston (in winter):
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w3/Magazinemedia/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsbjedloce.jpg

737 MAX is clearly a viable solution.

Quoting afcjets (Reply 39):

Yes the 737-800 can be operated from Boston already. Don't know what he's yarning on about, UK/Ireland must not exsist.

[Edited 2015-09-09 12:38:51]

[Edited 2015-09-09 12:40:50]

[Edited 2015-09-09 12:41:26]
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flyby519
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:51 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 42):
TATL doesn't always mean mainland Europe.

Range from Boston (in winter):

How many miles are you using for range? That looks pretty darn short
 
frostyj
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:57 pm

It's the range required for no fuel stops.
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barney captain
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:28 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 42):
Range from Boston (in winter):

The problem is the range to Boston in the winter.

The MAX8 will have roughly 300nm less range than the 757 - an a/c that already has occasional issues.
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Airnerd
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:38 pm

Icelandair is pretty low cost. Isn't this what they do with all their flights? Many of those to the USA are 7-8 hrs or so. And all on 757s with no real first class, and no comp food or drinks.
 
frostyj
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:47 pm

Quoting barney captain (Reply 45):

? Yes?? The chart shows 75% of the range meaning the range where NO fuel stops will ever happen.

Areas within 75% of the range of the 757 have never had a fuel stop so my theory is accurate. The 737 MAX will be able to operate to and from the British isles, Iceland and Portugal to New York, Toronto and Boston without any issues what so ever.

Anyway, it's laughable that people are questioning this anyway. Boston is 2,900 miles away, it's obvious not going to require a fuel stop on an aircraft with a 4,200 mile range.

[Edited 2015-09-09 15:49:07]
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shamrock350
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:29 pm

Quoting 321neoLR (Reply 37):
My understanding is that EI have or are in talks with Airbus, (prob through IAG now), about the 321LR. The runway in dub is too short, but if they put in a new one, then it might work.

Is it too short?! If that's the case this might be a big stumbling block for Aer Lingus, talk of a new runway at DUB has only just started up again and it's a very long way off happening.

It would limit any A321LR fleet to SNN and would completely rule out the possibility of ORK ever getting a transatlantic service from Aer Lingus. Not sure they or IAG would be interested in ordering such an aircraft if it were to be stuck in a secondary base.
 
barney captain
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RE: LCC Trans Atlantic Narrow Body?

Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:38 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 47):
it's obvious not going to require a fuel stop on an aircraft with a 4,200 mile range.

It's obvious you are mistaken - if you're referring to the MAX8.

While LHR-BOS is indeed 2900nm, the MAX 8 has a "range" of 3500nm, hardly making it a no-brainier, especially in the winter. JFK adds another 100nm. By the time you factor in reserves and alternates, there isn't much left. For comparison, the 757 had a listed "range" of 4000nm, 500nm more than the MAX.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ot-performance-assumptions-415293/

[Edited 2015-09-09 16:43:36]
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