AWACSooner
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:19 pm

Quoting FRAEDDF (Reply 46):

German pilots union "VC" has extended their industrial action at Lufthansa until Wednesday, September 9. All short- and medium haul traffic originating from Germany will be affected from 00:01am until midnight on Wednesday. In addition, all Germanwings flights with the purpose to undermine the strike at LH-mainline will be affected as well.

If this proves to be a nail in the coffin of LH, I sure hope the rest of the LH employees gang up and sue the pants off the pilots for costing them their jobs!
 
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eisenbach
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:35 pm

Quoting Marvinhsv (Reply 10):
An absolute joke - they're already way overpaid...they're aren't investment bankers. Lufthansa can't make money with such costs.

I am also critical about the strike - but to say that just the pilots are the reason that LH is making no money is a little bit too much. The complete crew costs (incl. cabin crew) of a flight are typically about 10% ... so this cannot be the the main reason.
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Marvinhsv
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:35 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 11):
Who with their track record, do not deserve their packages either.

But they aren't blocking daily life....pilots have the same responsiblity as a train driver. Everybody relies on them and they think they can crash into everybody's schedules.

Quoting seahawk (Reply 17):
That is your opinion, the pilots seem to see it differently.

Wow - what a suprise. Ask 10 people and all of them will tell you they'd take more money for the same work.

Quoting rabenschlag (Reply 25):
Do LH pilots earn well compared to pilots working at the competition?

Hell ya - there's not a single company like that. At least the ones with the good old contracts.

Quoting rabenschlag (Reply 25):
Germany is a low-wage environment

No really. Not as expensive as Switzerland but still not cheap - those poorly paid jobs are often done by foreigners.

Quoting AA94 (Reply 36):
You'd think that after 13 strikes in 18 months, it'd become clear that maybe the tactic of relentless striking isn't working ...

Fortunately it isn't. Same with Deutsche Bahn when their strike/work balance was close to 50/50 a few months back.
 
bmacleod
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:00 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 50):
If this proves to be a nail in the coffin of LH, I sure hope the rest of the LH employees gang up and sue the pants off the pilots for costing them their jobs!

I imagine the folks at Boeing are on the edge of their seats biting their nails....   
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
N867DA
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:22 pm

Wow I booked travel on LH for a family member on these days because they were a profit-making airline and assumed strikes would be very unlikely. Boy, was a I wrong! I hope the pilots figure out what they want, but I'm definitely less likely to pick LH again.
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glideslope
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:26 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 53):
I imagine the folks at Boeing are on the edge of their seats biting their nails....   

Very unlikely.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
FRAEDDF
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:43 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 53):
I imagine the folks at Boeing are on the edge of their seats biting their nails....   


Why Boeing? LH only has a bunch of 777-9X on order at Boeing, nothing to get too excited about. But I would imagine that the 100.000+ LH-staff that are not pilots are starting to get a little nervous.
 
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glideslope
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:13 pm

Quoting FRAEDDF (Reply 56):
Why Boeing? LH only has a bunch of 777-9X on order at Boeing, nothing to get too excited about. But I would imagine that the 100.000+ LH-staff that are not pilots are starting to get a little nervous.

Correct. Boeing would have no trouble filling those slots.   
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
Planeflyer
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:23 am

For those in the know how much of LH issues are related to the following:

LH costs are not competitive?

ME3?

The rise of LCC in Europe?

Poor business conditions in Europe? Is this impacting business travel?
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:09 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 9):
I'd love to hear a LH pilot's perspective on this...especially considering how LH is spinning more and more of their ops towards Germanwings and Eurowings.

This may be part of the reason behind the labor action. If this is happening, it means LH has learned the wrong lesson from UA's misadventures in outsourcing. Great way to create a third world airline.
 
FRAEDDF
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:59 am

Quoting Planeflyer (Reply 58):
For those in the know how much of LH issues are related to the following:

LH costs are not competitive?

  

Quoting Planeflyer (Reply 58):
ME3?

  

Quoting Planeflyer (Reply 58):
The rise of LCC in Europe?

  

Quoting Planeflyer (Reply 58):
Poor business conditions in Europe? Is this impacting business travel?

Partly. The situation in the Ukraine and the sanctions on Russia are certainly hurting business in Germany and all over Europe, but I don’t think it has such a huge impact on LH at this point.

What this whole labor dispute comes down to, is control. All the monetary issues could be solved, I think. The pilots can add and they know that LH has to cut costs in order to survive against the LCC and the ME3. But they insist on doing so within the existing labor agreement and they want to hire junior pilots at mainline LH under the „old rules“, just adjusting the old labor contract and cutting some costs here and there. In this scenario, the pilots union would still maintain their powerful position within LH.

LH-management on the other hand wants to take the big step. They want the Eurowings-brand to become the third largest LCC in Europe. In this scenario (which is already becoming reality), junior pilots will be hired by the new EW only, for about 40% less money than they would make starting at mainline LH. Also, because Eurowings Europe is based in Austria, they want to limit the influence of German unions on management decisions and labor issues in the future. Naturally, the pilots union wants to prevent this scenario at any cost.

I don't see much middle ground in this conflict where both parties could meet. That’s why I think they are heading for a showdown and it is hard to predict who will blink first. Personally, I don't think the pilots can win this, but they sure can do an enormous amount of damage to LH in the meantime. Just my two cents..
 
Planeflyer
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:23 am

FRAEDDF, thanks for the input.

Are LH costs out of line with IAG, KL, AF or just LCC?

How do LH labor costs stack up aginst ME3.
 
Freshside3
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:30 am

The fact that LH has a surcharge of 16EUR for every ticket bought from OUTSIDE the "LH Group"(LH/OS/SN/LX)hasn't helped matters, either.
 
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seahawk
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:03 am

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 47):
I take it you are not booked on LH for these particular dates, am I warm?

I avoid booking LH since the first strike and until there is no solution found.

Quoting Marvinhsv (Reply 52):
Wow - what a suprise. Ask 10 people and all of them will tell you they'd take more money for the same work.

It is the right of the pilots to strike, if they think they deserve better conditions. They can do so even if it kills the company or their own future.
 
douglasyxz
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:32 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 63):
It is the right of the pilots to strike, if they think they deserve better conditions. They can do so even if it kills the company or their own future.

That is one of the most stupid comments I have ever seen. It is a shame that a small group of people (union) has so much power. Same goes for the train drivers. Way too much power to satisfy the ego of a few.
 
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seahawk
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:04 am

Quoting douglasyxz (Reply 64):
That is one of the most stupid comments I have ever seen. It is a shame that a small group of people (union) has so much power. Same goes for the train drivers. Way too much power to satisfy the ego of a few.

That is not a stupid comment that is the legal reality in Germany.
 
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LTU330
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:04 am

It's a fact of life that for many people it is hard to accept a change in your working conditions. Of course you should be able to question this and act if you want to. I work for the "other" German Airline (obviously outside the LH Group), and every single day at the moment we fear for our future, and I cannot even comprehend the idea of going on strike for any reason. It would kill our Airline instantly. I don't care how much our pilots get paid. They have their contract and I have mine. However, if they went on strike at the moment because of the fact our Airline has stated we have too many pilots and need to offload some, the anger in the rest of the Airline would be immense.

I imagine this is how the other LH employees are feeling now. They must be so tired of all this as it risks their future aswell. In most Airlines the pilot unions are very strong. I was at B.A and they always got what they wanted back then. If the pilots win, then LH will look to out source everything else. A virtual Airline. This is what B.A wanted. Every employee just contracted to them so that you can offload people easily when you don't need them. It's hard for people to understand this problem when LH shows massive profits. It's not about now, it's about the predicted future earnings and how to maintain them. Privatisation has been the thing that has killed the industry as its all about maximum profit, and always making a bigger profit to keep the main shareholders happy. Everyone who complains about the ME3 being funded by the Governments should remember it was like this in Europe before and Airlines were not interested in profits, just providing a service. Unfortunately, in this day and age Airlines will always sacrifice their own people in the interest of keeping the profit margins high.

Good luck to all LH Group people. I would never wish anyone in this industry the stress we feel at the moment. I hope it gets sorted in an agreeable manner to all, but I doubt it will.
 
speedbird128
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:34 am

Quoting LTU330 (Reply 66):
It's not about now, it's about the predicted future earnings and how to maintain them

Ding ding - we have a winner. Greed is instantaneous, and without foresight.

I really have enjoyed my recent flights on QR (10 hours longer, but service and lounges waaaay above LH). These short notice LH strikes being the very reason I refuse to book any travel with them.
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aeroflop
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:35 am

Oh maybe instead of complaining that the LH pilot earn too much you should muster up the courage and fight for what you deserve.

You all have what we call the "Toll Poppy Syndrome" look it up. Jealousy is a curse people.
 
speedbird128
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:39 am

Quoting aeroflop (Reply 68):
Jealousy is a curse people.

So is greed.
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CARST
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:43 am

Quoting LTU330 (Reply 66):
I imagine this is how the other LH employees are feeling now. They must be so tired of all this as it risks their future aswell.

I know a few people working for LH in at Technik and Systems and they are more then upset with the pilots. Angered might be the better wording here...

Also a few people in Sales (selling LH services to other airlines) who are on a bonus system (where part of the bonus comes from the companies overall profit) are very angered, too. We have a very small group of people here who bring damage to the whole company and the majority of employees.

The pilots had the chance for new contracts within Germany, lets call it EW episode 1, but declined and went on strike. Now they are facing the inevitable, EW episode 2, based in Austria, but they still not want to face reality. Like I seaid earlier in the thread, many people will be out of their job soon...

Quoting seahawk (Reply 63):
It is the right of the pilots to strike, if they think they deserve better conditions. They can do so even if it kills the company or their own future.
Quoting douglasyxz (Reply 64):
That is not a stupid comment that is the legal reality in Germany.

Any chance you are from East Germany? These are exactly the phrases I hear from people who lived in the GDR. "We just do what we have to do." "If it is legal, we can do it." "We work exactly the amount of hours as the contract says, but not a minute longer." This attitude is what brought our economy down in the last two decades and what keeps undermining all efforts from companies to stay profitable. Just because the laws allows specific stupid things, you don't have to do them...
 
aeroflop
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:48 am

Quoting speedbird128 (Reply 69):
So is greed.

Do you even know what they are striking about? Keeping jobs at LH?
Hardly greedy.
 
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seahawk
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:52 am

Quoting CARST (Reply 70):
Any chance you are from East Germany? These are exactly the phrases I hear from people who lived in the GDR. "We just do what we have to do." "If it is legal, we can do it." "We work exactly the amount of hours as the contract says, but not a minute longer." This attitude is what brought our economy down in the last two decades and what keeps undermining all efforts from companies to stay profitable. Just because the laws allows specific stupid things, you don't have to do them...

No, I am from the West, I just have given up to expect people to be reasonable. If you give somebody the right to jump down a cliff, I expect that you will always find people who insist on doing so. Apart from that the strike might have a positive influence on the supreme court and their decision on the new laws limiting the power of small unions.
 
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CARST
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:54 am

Quoting aeroflop (Reply 71):
Do you even know what they are striking about? Keeping jobs at LH?
Hardly greedy.

It is greedy, when they had a chance to get new contracts within LH Group in Germany. They would have lost some money, but all would have kept their jobs. They declined. That was two years back now...

Then management offered jobs in EW (still in Germany) and told everyone no new jobs would be created at LH mainline. The pilots went on strike again, in solidarity with the new pilots at EW.

Plan C now is forming EW as an Austrian carrier without German unions. The pilots had a lot of options before, but they declined both major offers by LH and are now facing worse conditions than before. Their fault, they had their chance...
 
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CARST
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:00 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 72):
No, I am from the West, I just have given up to expect people to be reasonable.

But people acted reasonable in the decades before reunification. It just seems we lost our mojo, things like that aren't teached anymore. And they were never important for people from the GDR as anyone had a job anyway, even if it meant that 5 people had the same job.

Quoting seahawk (Reply 72):
Apart from that the strike might have a positive influence on the supreme court and their decision on the new laws limiting the power of small unions.

That would be the only positive outcome of all the strikes at LH and DB.
 
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seahawk
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:08 am

Quoting CARST (Reply 74):
But people acted reasonable in the decades before reunification. It just seems we lost our mojo, things like that aren't teached anymore. And they were never important for people from the GDR as anyone had a job anyway, even if it meant that 5 people had the same job.

Imho it has nothing to do with East or West, it is a problem that everybody feels entitled to get the best deal for himself and to get a better deal than all others, even if it means that the others pay the price for it. The old German solidarity, where all made a combined effort to reach a goal is gone, because now everybody´s personal goal is more important.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:34 am

This entire thing is sad...
Sad that I'd rather throw my $$ towards an airline that bleeds money like AB rather than LH when I need to do intra-German flying (or short hauls to places like ZRH when LX is too expensive).
Sad that the non-pilot LH employees are being brought down by a few folks who now appear to look out for their own personal gains rather than the group.
Sad that an airline that was once the gold standard of European airline service is now becoming a shell of itself due to these random strikes.
 
speedbird128
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:35 am

Quoting aeroflop (Reply 71):
Do you even know what they are striking about? Keeping jobs at LH?
Hardly greedy.

Do You?

Do you even know how they ended up where they are now?
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PlaneInsomniac
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:48 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 65):
That is not a stupid comment that is the legal reality in Germany.

Yes, it is a legal reality that you may strike your employer out of business.

Whether it is the smart thing to do, is a different question.
Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:01 am

Quoting aeroflop (Reply 71):
Do you even know what they are striking about? Keeping jobs at LH?
Hardly greedy

Officially they strike to keep their pension scheme. That is unsustainable for the Company in Zero interest rate times. Most if not all German DAX companies have adjusted their schemes to the present Situation. Except a small gallic Union whoch thoinks they have a Magic drink.

They have not and they wiull find that out the hard way.

Unofficially, because they cannot strike about that subject, they walk out in protest to the farming out of Jobs, i.,e. creating EUW and others. These are Management decisions which have to be approved by the supervisory board on whoch the capital isde has 10 seats and the employees side has 10 seats. The chairman has 2 bvotes.

The board has approved the decisions, that's it. The point is not "strikeable". They would have found a solution about pensions Long time ago. They Keep that cooking for the simple reason to prohibit what has Long been decided.

They lost and the longer they strike the more they will lose.

The Intention is so obvious that LH is thinking about taking legal Action against VC since These strikes are totally unreasonable.
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readytotaxi
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:01 am

From the website.
http://www.lufthansa.com/de/en/Travel-information

The airline plan to operate more than half of long haul services.
There is also another strike on wednesday of med/short haul routes.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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Gipsy
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:56 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 4):

Or they can continue their reality detached strike behaviour until LH is bankrupt.

And then start their careers again at surely much more favourable conditions somewhere else.


This is simply idiotic. I'm sorry. Not accepting the new realities and continuing to put additional strain on the company from

within to their own luxurious advantage. A la: for me it will suffice anyway no matter what comes afterwards.


There is a nice German word for it: Besitzstandswahrer
 
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ThrottleHold
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:39 pm

Quoting douglasyxz (Reply 64):

Unions only grow strong because of incompetent and arrogant management.

[Edited 2015-09-08 05:40:42]
 
diverted
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:25 pm

Quoting CARST (Reply 73):
Plan C now is forming EW as an Austrian carrier without German unions. The pilots had a lot of options before, but they declined both major offers by LH and are now facing worse conditions than before. Their fault, they had their chance...

So backing them into a corner is supposed to make them capitulate? If I were them, I'd do the same at this point. I've worked in union and non union jobs. My current job is non union. My employer is on very good terms with my colleagues and myself, and as such, we have a great working relationship. However, if my employer basically told me "take less money or we're outsourcing you" well then I'd do the same as the Lufty guys and gals. I don't claim to know what LH pilot compensation is like, but I doubt it's as crazy as some here make it seem.

I get it, a business exists to make money. Well, rather than trying to nickel and dime your employees, why not try something innovative? Get the employees on board; give them a reason to strive to make the company as successfull as possible.

Treat them like they're a burden, and they will be.

If it's all about the lowest cost everything, why not just go full Norwegian and outsource everything. The only Germans they'll need to employ would be some contract ground staff, and even then they could probably bring in foreigners on temp contracts.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:28 pm

It's a bitter pill for pro-management A-Net but pilots are a valuable commodity; its not like they can snap up a bunch of folks of the street outside FRA and put them in a pilot uniform. The trending pilot shortage that will be major issue in the U.S. isn't as acute in Europe but will also factor into the equation.

The pilots have leverage most other work groups don't have. What we are missing is the German government taking a more active role in mediating the situation.
 
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ThrottleHold
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:31 pm

Quoting diverted (Reply 84):

An excellent analysis, with which I agree fully.

Unfortunately these days, the bean counting managers are only interested in cutting costs in order to jystify their own big bonuses Then they skip on to their next job and destroy that place too. Leaving the long-term employees, those who actually care for the business, to pick up the pieces.

Management: Those who know the cost of everything, yet the value of nothing.
Most of them have so much disdain for the genuine employee that I sometimes wonder if their Mama didn't love them enough when they were younger. Obviously some kind of issues with them.

[Edited 2015-09-08 06:33:59]
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:41 pm

[quot

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 85):
The pilots have leverage most other work groups don't have. What we are missing is the German government taking a more active role in mediating the situation.

The German government gets not involved, we have tarrif autonomy, it is between the unions and the Company.

As to the Pilot shortage, FR and other LCC pilots working for hour contrcts without any minimum guaranteed will gladly accept EUW offers. That would raise their income dramatically and lower average costs for the LH Family of Airlines at the same time
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
speedbird128
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:43 pm

I will write it again. You continue to strike, and I and others continue to fly QR/EY/EK. Then you whine to the government about protection and restricting the ME3 because you are not making money. Which bit of this don't you lot get?

[Edited 2015-09-08 06:45:52]
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speedbird128
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:44 pm

Quoting ThrottleHold (Reply 83):
Unions only grow strong because of incompetent and arrogant management.

And companies fail because of incompetent and arrogant empoyees.
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LSZH34
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:47 pm

Quoting speedbird128 (Reply 88):

Happy days for the ME3...
 
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ThrottleHold
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:48 pm

Quoting speedbird128 (Reply 89):

Managers have the responsibility to effectively manage the operation. If it fails, then its managements fault, not the employees.
If managers weren't so arrogantly pigheaded, then maybe the employees would be more open to helping.
 
diverted
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:48 pm

Quoting speedbird128 (Reply 88):
I will write it again. You continue to strike, and I and others continue to fly QR/EY/EK. Then you whine to the government about protection and restricting the ME3 because you are not making money. Which bit of this don't you lot get?

It's a shame management is willing to continue putting up with these strikes (Which are faaarrrr more costly and damaging to the brand than to give the pilots what they're asking)

Even better, why doesn't management set a precedent? Let the pay cuts start at the top and work their way down. Alternatively, if they wanna play hardball let them. It seems to me the pilots are willing to lay it on the line and take a risk for what they want. Let them destroy the company...then everyone can s tart over in Austria....or somewhere else with no work rules.
 
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ThrottleHold
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:51 pm

Quoting speedbird128 (Reply 89):

Some suggested reading to educate you...

http://www.freeenterprise.com/manage...eo-who-saved-continental-airlines/

"We lost something like $600 million in 1994. In 1995, we made $225 million—with the same people and the same airplanes. So, it wasn’t anything wrong with the employees. It was the management—and it always is.”

-Gordon Bethune, ex-CEO Continental Airlines.

[Edited 2015-09-08 06:52:13]
 
speedbird128
Posts: 1562
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:53 pm

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 90):
Happy days for the ME3...

I agree. I hope they benefit hugely at the decisions made by the flight deck crews.

I have been burnt by a strike before, and I will vote with my feet. I hope others do too. Then the pigheaded management (according to throttle hold) would have been right all along.
A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
 
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chrisnh
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:54 pm

I think a 748, a 744, and an A346 are all lined up somewhere at BOS, which would make for a nice photo.
 
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ThrottleHold
Posts: 565
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:00 pm

RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:02 pm

Quoting diverted (Reply 92):
Even better, why doesn't management set a precedent? Let the pay cuts start at the top and work their way down.

Which would be a great idea. You want your employees to take a 10% pay cut?.. Then take one yourself.

However, management would never do this. They just look down their noses at the employees that they regard as nothing more than a payroll number and scum that costs them money from their bonuses.
 
FRAEDDF
Posts: 107
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:20 pm

Quoting diverted (Reply 84):
However, if my employer basically told me "take less money or we're outsourcing you" well then I'd do the same as the Lufty guys and gals

No one is asking already employed LH-pilots to take a pay cut. This labor dispute (among other issues) is mainly about where newly hired pilots will be employed in the Lufthansa Group, under which contract they will work and how well they will be payed. The union wants LH-mainline to hire them under the existing collective labor agreement, but for a little less money. LH-management claims that the conditions of the old agreement are not competitive any more and refuses to hire any new junior pilots for LH-mainline. LH made it clear again today in a press release, that the existing labor contract for LH-pilots will be slowly phased out with old pilots retiring and new pilots only be hired for Eurowings.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 85):
What we are missing is the German government taking a more active role in mediating the situation.

Why would they do that? LH is a 100% privately owned company, the German government has no business there.

Quoting diverted (Reply 92):
Even better, why doesn't management set a precedent? Let the pay cuts start at the top and work their way down.

Lufthansa-CEO´s are already the lowest paid executives among all 30 companies listed in the German stock market index DAX. As a symbolic gesture? Sure, why not. But that would solve none of the real problems LH is facing right now.

[Edited 2015-09-08 07:49:07]
 
speedbird128
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Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:30 am

RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:49 pm

Quoting FRAEDDF (Reply 98):
No one is asking already hired LH-pilots to take a pay cut. This labor dispute (among other issues) is mainly about where newly hired pilots will be employed in the Lufthansa Group, under which contract they will work and how well they will be payed.

Exactly. This it. The company cannot sustain the inverted pyramid. It will topple eventually and all cries will be against the ME3 for eating the profits. Mark my words.

In this case, the ME3 actually deserve the business.

Quoting FRAEDDF (Reply 98):
Lufthansa-CEO´s are already the lowest paid executives among all 30 companies listed in the German stock market index DAX

Some things won't settle the greed.
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ThrottleHold
Posts: 565
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:53 pm

Quoting speedbird128 (Reply 101):

Some things won't settle the greed.

The greed of the arrogant bean counters.
 
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seahawk
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RE: LH Pilots To Strike On Tue 8 Sept.

Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:00 pm

It is a two sided sword. On the one hand the pilots claim that they are protecting their interests and those of young pilots on the other hand this has lead to pilots fresh out of LH training not being hired. And imho the pilots are missing the realities. LH won´t be able to compete with a pilot corps completely based on the mainline standard contract, when the competition is hiring all over the globe. I am amused when the VC talks about Condor or Tuifly as if those were the only competition to LH.

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