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winterlight
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Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:07 pm

Apparently the planned 787 for this evening's LGW-JFK has gone tech and is being subbed by the 737. Will route via KEF.

LN-DYV just positioning in from OSL now.

[Edited 2015-09-07 11:13:32]
Question everything. Trust no-one.
 
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spinkid
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:17 pm

oh wow!

I believe this is a first.

It must have been very undersold to allow for this swap.

I feel bad for the folks who paid for Premium Economy  
 
frostyj
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:17 pm

No big deal. They would be better stopping in Halifax instead of wasting time and making a detour.
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JAmie2k9
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:21 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 2):

Could be completely off the mark but I believe they have no choice but to fly close to KEF anyway.
 
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winterlight
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:24 pm

Quoting spinkid (Reply 1):
I feel bad for the folks who paid for Premium Economy

Probably would have been some people's first go on a 787 as well.
Question everything. Trust no-one.
 
Eagleboy
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:25 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 2):

No big deal. They would be better stopping in Halifax instead of wasting time and making a detour.

Well it is a bit of a deal....B738 vs B787. NO mainline vs NO Longhaul.

Oh and KEF isn't much a a detour...depends on the tracks today. KEF would be an alternate anyway.
 
frostyj
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:27 pm

Kef is a detour. I've never went up there when flying to NYC, i've never tracked a flight from NYC go up there either.

If I was on that flight i'd rather stop off in Canada, get the ocean portion done and then worry about stopovers.

[Edited 2015-09-07 11:29:27]
[url=http://m.maploco.com/details/5f34zxvq][img]http://www.maploco.com/vmap/s/8395334.png[/img][/url]
 
skipness1E
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:36 pm

One assumes this is a non ETOPS equipped aircraft? Is that a good idea?
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:42 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 6):
Kef is a detour. I've never went up there when flying to NYC, i've never tracked a flight from NYC go up there either.

If I was on that flight i'd rather stop off in Canada, get the ocean portion done and then worry about stopovers.

I really doubt Norwegian's 737-800s are equipped with the ETOPS rating that would allow such a routing. Remember that AC has only two special A319s that handle YYT-LHR - none of the rest of the fleet would be able to. If AC had both A319s unavailable it's likely they'd have to substitute with a 767-300ER, or more likely, send the pax to YHZ or YUL.

[Edited 2015-09-07 11:44:29]
 
frostyj
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:47 pm

I didn't think about that. It still means though that the flight is going to get in extremely late.
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zkncj
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:47 pm

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 5):
Well it is a bit of a deal....B738 vs B787. NO mainline vs NO Longhaul.

At the end of the day the passengers still got there, it would of been more of an 'big deal' if they had left them stuck at LGW.
 
steex
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:55 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 2):

No big deal. They would be better stopping in Halifax instead of wasting time and making a detour.

That might be a slightly more direct route, but let's keep in mind that Norwegian doesn't serve the likes of YHZ or YYT, and does fly to KEF. Logistically, that's a much better stopping point.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:26 pm

Will they have wi-fi being the B738? Or does it work only in Europe?
 
Mortyman
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:31 pm

From Norwegian.no:


"We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience caused by the technical issues on DY7015. Your flight has been reinstated and will be operated by a boeing 737-800 via Keflavik."
 
skipness1E
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:36 pm

You couldn't fly to Canada with bi ETOPS fit ?
 
cedarjet
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:53 pm

I would love to be on that flight. How many jets have done LON to NYC since the Comet 4 started on October 4, 1958? By my calculation it's at least 200,000. It might be over half a million. This must be the first time it's been done using a 737 for revenue. Fantastic.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
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eurowings
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:55 pm

At least they are making every effort to get their passengers to JFK. I can think of other non-legacy carriers that would cancel the flight instead.
"Freddie Laker may be at peace with his Maker, but he is persona non grata with IATA."- HRH Duke of Edinburgh
 
usflyguy
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:57 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 10):
At the end of the day the passengers still got there, it would of been more of an 'big deal' if they had left them stuck at LGW.

and DY 7016 JFK-LGW is cancelled. Guess they'll let the aircraft sit overnight for crew rest and then ferry it back the next day.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:06 pm

LGW-YHZ is 2875NM with direct routing. Unfavortable winds will make it very tough for a 738 flying that route with a full load. KEF makes more sense. Also, as someone pointed out, KEF is a destination for Norwegian so it makes sense stopping there.

Let's hope for the Premium pax' sake that they were booked into another airline since their 738 only has cattle class. Oh wait, it's Norwegian..
 
opticalilyushin
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:15 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 17):
This must be the first time it's been done using a 737 for revenue. Fantastic.

Indeed an unusual flight, but not that long ago Globespan operated on a 737 after getting their wrists slapped by the authorities, and Primera operated Dublin to the Caribbean on a 738, via somewhere in NE North America for a season.
 
silentbob
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:19 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 19):

and DY 7016 JFK-LGW is cancelled. Guess they'll let the aircraft sit overnight for crew rest and then ferry it back the next day.

No way to get a 737 crew in position and rested in time for DY 7016
 
willyknut
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:31 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 17):
This must be the first time it's been done using a 737 for revenue.

Might well be the first LGW-JFK B737 revenue flight, but certainly not the first 737 across the Atlantic. SAS operates Stavanger - Houston daily with 737 (OK, BBJ but still...) and several other operators have used 737s across the pond.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:34 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 6):
If I was on that flight i'd rather stop off in Canada, get the ocean portion done and then worry about stopovers.
Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 20):
LGW-YHZ is 2875NM with direct routing. Unfavortable winds will make it very tough for a 738 flying that route with a full load. KEF makes more sense. Also, as someone pointed out, KEF is a destination for Norwegian so it makes sense stopping there.

LGW-YHZ is 2498 NM. 2875 is statute miles. Even so, LGW-YHZ is about 350 NM further than JFK-LAX and also further than West Coast-HNL. Even without the ETOPS issue it's best to stop at KEF to reduce risk of a fuel stop on JFK-YHZ if winds were adverse. And stopping at a point you normally serve probably reduces handling costs.
 
cedarjet
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:47 pm

Quoting opticalilyushin (Reply 21):
Primera operated Dublin to the Caribbean on a 738, via somewhere in NE North America for a season
Quoting willyknut (Reply 23):
certainly not the first 737 across the Atlantic

No I know, it's that specific city pair that is a first (AFAIK).
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
bendewire
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:01 pm

Someone mentioned load factor! Well to accommodate a two class 787 into one class 737 (291 on 787 verses 189 on 737) it would mean the flight was under 60% full, which surely any LCC would suffer if loads were this low regularly. I'm sure DY does not do cargo so could they be flying at a loss? A colleague (dispatcher) told me that quite a few long haul DY flights are well below 50% full so are they making any money on these services, it would be interesting if DY would publicize some figures
 
SwissCanuck
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:07 pm

Quoting skipness1e (Reply 16):

Should gas up in YQX like the good ol days  
 
bennett123
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:25 pm

A think a TATL by BBJ is a whole different ball game, ditto the BA A318.

Going that distance ina LCC B737 sounds horrendous.
 
Mortyman
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:25 pm

Quoting bendewire (Reply 26):
Someone mentioned load factor! Well to accommodate a two class 787 into one class 737 (291 on 787 verses 189 on 737) it would mean the flight was under 60% full, which surely any LCC would suffer if loads were this low regularly. I'm sure DY does not do cargo so could they be flying at a loss? A colleague (dispatcher) told me that quite a few long haul DY flights are well below 50% full so are they making any money on these services, it would be interesting if DY would publicize some figures

From Norwegian's august statement:


"Norwegian carried 2,566,179 passengers in August, an increase of 9 percent compared to the same month previous year. The total passenger traffic (RPK) increased by 9 percent while the capacity (ASK) increased by 1 percent this month. The load factor was 89.7 percent, up a solid 6.1 percentage points from the same month last year. 97 percent of the long-haul seats were filled in August. "



http://media.norwegian.com/en/#/pres...traffic-figures-for-august-1212521
 
NDiesel
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:28 pm

Just about to touch down in KEF. Looking at these images from FR24, it really makes you admire the little bird for what it can do!


http://www.flightradar24.com/NAX7015/75b1c97
Delta MD-11 JFK-CDG - Upon sunrise I fell in love with aviation
 
frostyj
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:28 pm

Really? It depends what the legroom is. If it's 31 inches like United and Aer Lingus 757 then it should be fine.

I don't see the issue, especially when they'll be getting off for a break.
[url=http://m.maploco.com/details/5f34zxvq][img]http://www.maploco.com/vmap/s/8395334.png[/img][/url]
 
opticalilyushin
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:46 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 28):
Going that distance ina LCC B737 sounds horrendous.

I flew 6hrs45 in one of their 738s last year, and quite comfortably so..the free WiFi onboard being a nice bonus, when it works anyway  
 
bendewire
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:51 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 29):

The figures are for the whole of Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA (Short and Long haul world wide). On looking at the whole document it does seem to confirm the long haul has not been as popular as Norwegian probably hoped.

Load Factor 89.7% August 2015 83.6% August 2014
Load factor + 1% For August 2015 over August 2014
Load factor year on year +.6%
Passengers + 9% for August
Passengers +1% year on year

So if you consider the expansion in long haul and the European SH operation the figures are not very impressive and indicates the long haul expansion has not been as lucrative as they probably hoped
 
Viscount724
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:58 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 31):
Really? It depends what the legroom is. If it's 31 inches like United and Aer Lingus 757 then it should be fine.

Believe DY 737-800s are 29-inch pitch except in the emergency exit rows.
 
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spinkid
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:10 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 31):
I don't see the issue, especially when they'll be getting off for a break.

I don't think anyone gets off for a stretch. I believe it is just a gas and go.
 
Mortyman
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:14 pm



Quoting bendewire (Reply 33):
The figures are for the whole of Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA (Short and Long haul world wide).
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 29):
97 percent of the long-haul seats were filled in August. "


[Edited 2015-09-07 16:16:13]
 
LN-KGL
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:38 pm

Since you have such a good statistics in UK, why don't you use it?
According to UK CAA 14,932 scheduled passengers flew between LGW and JFK in July 2015 (we have to wait one more week for the release of provisional August numbers). The only carrier that fly scheduled flights between LGW and JFK is Norwegian. Norwegian had six weekly flights in July (Dx7) and that gives 27 return flights.

Now we can start calculating:

Seats to fill in July = 27 x 2 x 291 = 15,714
Seats filled in July = 14,932
Average cabin load in July = 14,932 / 15,714 = 95.0%

This was one example. I have monitored these monthly statistics for the last five months, and the average cabin loads has been north of 90% for the long haul destinations Norwegian is the single operator from LGW.
 
32andBelow
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:43 pm

Quoting bendewire (Reply 26):

Someone mentioned load factor! Well to accommodate a two class 787 into one class 737 (291 on 787 verses 189 on 737) it would mean the flight was under 60% full, which surely any LCC would suffer if loads were this low regularly. I'm sure DY does not do cargo so could they be flying at a loss?

Not every single plane flies every single flight full, not every single flight makes money. It is possible that no everyone will be accommodated. Better to bump 20-40 people than 200.
 
DLD9S
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:47 pm

Quoting willyknut (Reply 23):
Might well be the first LGW-JFK B737 revenue flight, but certainly not the first 737 across the Atlantic. SAS operates Stavanger - Houston daily with 737 (OK, BBJ but still...) and several other operators have used 737s across the pond.

I believe SY also operated MSP-STN a few summers ago - it required a fuel stop in YQX.
717 727 737 747 757 767 777 DC9 DC10 M80 M90 M11 L10 AB6 333 340 319 320 321 ARJ CRJ EM2 EMJ SF3 146 100 BE1...
 
bendewire
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:16 am

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 37):
Since you have such a good statistics in UK, why don't you use it?
According to UK CAA 14,932 scheduled passengers flew between LGW and JFK in July 2015 (we have to wait one more week for the release of provisional August numbers). The only carrier that fly scheduled flights between LGW and JFK is Norwegian. Norwegian had six weekly flights in July (Dx7) and that gives 27 return flights.

The figures are From Norwegian, so they only fly long haul from Gatwick to JFK? anyone can cherry pick individual flights but Norwegians own figures from 2014 when Compared to 2015 show a vastly different story for the whole operation not just one route. Perhaps I'm missing something but 6 x Weekly flights = 12 return flights

Going by your figures 14932 / 27 equals a load of 553 people per flight, are they using all economy A380?
 
Sukhoi
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:31 am

I think the passengers are ok with this. ARN-DXB is 6 hr 45 min DXB-ARN is 7 hrs 30 min. Flown with the B738. Better to come to New York than a cancelled flight. Norwegians planes are nice.
 
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lesfalls
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:49 am

Wonder if the flight was operated by U.S crew or the DY short-haul crew?
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
32andBelow
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:42 am

Quoting Lesfalls (Reply 42):
Wonder if the flight was operated by U.S crew or the DY short-haul crew?


The flight will need to be operated by a flight crew that is currently certified to fly the type.
 
yyztpa
Posts: 194
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:57 am

Also looks like an A343 (CS-TQZ) was subbed in the previous day on the 8th.

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/DY7015/#75b1c97
 
aviatorcraig
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:05 am

Anyone know what the tech problem with the 787 was?
707 727 Caravelle Comet Concorde Dash-7 DC-9 DC-10 One-Eleven Trident Tristar Tu-134 VC-10 Viscount plus boring stuff!
 
LN-KGL
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:08 am

Quoting bendewire (Reply 38):
The figures are From Norwegian, so they only fly long haul from Gatwick to JFK? anyone can cherry pick individual flights but Norwegians own figures from 2014 when Compared to 2015 show a vastly different story for the whole operation not just one route. Perhaps I'm missing something but 6 x Weekly flights = 12 return flights

Going by your figures 14932 / 27 equals a load of 553 people per flight, are they using all economy A380?

Last I looked, this thread was about LGW-JFK hence I showed you the passenger numbers for latest month published at this webpage:
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...id=80&pagetype=88&pageid=3&sglid=3
As you can see from the description on linked page, the passenger numbers are collected from the airports. The passenger number count contains both outbound and inbound passengers. If you looked closer on the calculation bendwire; why do you think I calculated it like this?
Capacity = 27 (flights) x 2 (outbound + inbound) x 291 (passenger seats on board the DY B788) = 15,714 seats to fill

Most countries have a public traffic statistics, but most authorities don't publish such a high resultion statistics as UK CAA do except for the statistics database Trafikstyrelsen in Denmark publish where you can get passenger numbers down to one single flight.
 
Someone83
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:15 am

Quoting bendewire (Reply 24):
. I'm sure DY does not do cargo so could they be flying at a loss?

They do cargo, so don't know where you get you're facts from.

No idea about cargo loads out of LGW, but from OSL they carry quite a lot of salmon
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:09 am

Quoting yyztpa (Reply 42):
Also looks like an A343 (CS-TQZ) was subbed in the previous day on the 8th.

It was indeed, I watched it disappear over the sunset horizon from the South West.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
debonair
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RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:48 am

Quoting Sukhoi (Reply 39):

I think the passengers are ok with this. ARN-DXB is 6 hr 45 min DXB-ARN is 7 hrs 30 min. Flown with the B738.

Yes, these flights are very luxurious - and I can't understand how DY is making any money on this route, because the seating capacity is lowered to 150 seats (or so). The middle seats in the first rows are blocked to save weight, leaving only the window and aisle seat...

The B738 will be a common sight in JFK when flights to Guadeloupe and Martinique will start in December...
 
JRadier
Posts: 3966
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:51 am

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 26):
Going that distance ina LCC B737 sounds horrendous.

Could be worse, Travel Service operates PRG-TER-HOG-CUN with a 189Y 738....
 
Mortyman
Posts: 5939
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

RE: Norwegian Using B738 LGW-JFK Tonight!

Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:34 am

Quoting bendewire (Reply 24):
I'm sure DY does not do cargo so could they be flying at a loss?

Norwegian fly alot of cargo, as mentioned in this Justplanes clip on their flight from Oslo to Bangkok:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrLUzeyxhkc


They were just under maximum weight on this flight: 221 tonnes


Norwegian actually has has it's own cargo handling company:

Norwegian Cargo AS

http://www.norwegiancargo.com/uk/about-norwegian-cargo/

http://norsk-cargo.com/norwegian-air/

" Norwegian Cargo was established in April 2013. This company is expanding and offers airfreight to many destinations. We currently ship to all destinations in the Nordic countries and several destinations in Europe in addition to Bangkok, New York and Florida. From 2014 we will also offer shipment to Los Angeles, San Francisco and Orlando.

In 2013 Norwegian Air appointed Forward Air as it’s sole trucking partner within North America to handle all its imports and exports and has since seen rapid growth in this region. In 2015 Norwegian renewed it's contract with Forward Air and is now expanding its air operations through key gateway cities to meet with demand.
"

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