'CX To Launch HKG-MAD'

KarelXWB · Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:51 am

Word is on the street that CX will announce HKG-MAD service on Thursday.

More details to follow.

http://twitter.com/flynewsmagazine/status/641199142698643457

--------

Last month CAPA suggested that the upcoming A350-900 aircraft could open new routes to Gatwick, Copenhagen and Madrid.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...et-is-not-returning-loyalty-240554

pierrelav · Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:21 am

Good news. If the scheduling is right, we could have a good IB-CX interface , specifically between S.America and HKG

NZ107 · Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:30 am

It'll become the longest flight purely over land, replacing CDG-HKG.

migair54 · Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:40 am

That's great news and long overdue in my opinion. As the ME3 have proved the MAD-Asia is quite big and IB-CX should have started before.

I hope this works well and we could see some IB flights to the East also.

I hope cargo wil be great the links between Spain and China are big now and even cargo trains circulate between both countries.
http://elpais.com/elpais/2014/12/09/inenglish/1418144500_911070.html

hz747300 · Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:54 am

Quoting pierrelav (Reply 1):
specifically between S.America and HKG

With that, it could probably be daily from the get go. I think this will be a smashing route for them.

jetblue1965 · Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:28 pm

This will help HKG pax access South America a lot easier. HKSAR passports are visa free transit through Schengen but must have a valid US visa to use the traditional gateways such as LAX/DFW/JFK.

B8887 · Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:45 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
CX To Launch HKG-MAD

Three things.

1) Great news.

2) Connections with Oneworld partner IB to Latin America.

3) Connections to North and West Africa with IB, plus domestic Spanish destinations.

This will be a winner from day one.

Regards.

B8887

LSZH34 · Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:48 pm

AFAIK ZRH will see A359 service as well next year

CXoneworld · Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:49 pm

Good stuff, I think there was previously some suggestion that BCN will likely come online first as CX's first Spanish destination because of what perceived to be the bigger O&D traffic. It would be interesting to know if anybody has insights into the airline's rationalisation for setting up MAD first. Obviously, as it has pointed out in the posts above, the S America transit seems a key factor in play. Does BCN provide any decent onward connections?

VAM8789 · Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:50 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 2):
It'll become the longest flight purely over land, replacing CDG-HKG.

Aren't both HKG-MAN and HKG-LHR both slightly longer than HKG-CDG?

DolphinAir747 · Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:56 pm

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 9):
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 2):
It'll become the longest flight purely over land, replacing CDG-HKG.

Aren't both HKG-MAN and HKG-LHR both slightly longer than HKG-CDG?

Britain is an island (though I feel someone will counter me with a super snarky response).

B8887 · Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:13 pm

Doesn't CDG-HKG fly many times over the North Sea and the Baltic Sea, or both, away from the great circle?

Regards.

B8887

[Edited 2015-09-08 07:16:04]

Eirules · Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:14 pm

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 9):

Both of those routes involve crossing water, namely the North Sea or English Channel

jetblue1965 · Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:24 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 10):
Britain is an island (though I feel someone will counter me with a super snarky response).

And technically, HKG airport is also located on an island

Miami · Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:26 pm

Won't believe it 'till I see some confirmation from CX.

I hope it does come true but just look at 'TK to PTY'.

Miami · Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:30 pm

Rumor has it MAD, TLV, and LGW will be announced soon for Q2 2016.

SCQ83 · Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:39 pm

In any case, MAD is the largest airport and Spain the largest market currently not served by CX in Europe. So not that surprising if this comes true.

ZKOJH · Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:43 pm

good to see CX on the expand again.

the shortest time I can find from HKG to EZE is 28 hrs and 28 min via AMS. with KLM (westbound travel)

However in Dec NZ will start AKL - EZE with a block time of 11 hrs and 40 mins, and with the HKG to AKL sector being only 11 Hrs put the 2 together its only 22 hrs you just need to add the transfer time in AKL into the mix.

PAX's who want a shorter trip will opt to go south then across.

KarelXWB · Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:46 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 3):
That's great news and long overdue in my opinion.

Problem is that you need an aircraft like the A350 or 787 to open such routes.

Miami · Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:02 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 18):
Problem is that you need an aircraft like the A350 or 787 to open such routes.

Then I guess they'll wait for the A350.

KarelXWB · Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:05 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 19):
Then I guess they'll wait for the A350.

Probably:

Quoting Miami (Reply 15):
Rumor has it MAD, TLV, and LGW will be announced soon for Q2 2016.

CX will receive their first A350s in Q1 2016, just in time to open these new routes.

aeroflop · Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:09 pm

Will be good to see the airbus fleet return to Europe!

Miami · Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:15 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 20):
CX will receive their first A350s in Q1 2016, just in time to open these new routes.

Seems about right.

airbazar · Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:24 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 2):
It'll become the longest flight purely over land, replacing CDG-HKG.

Not necessarily. CX often takes a southerly route for various reasons: better winds, avoid Chinese air space, etc.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/C...3/history/20150907/1640Z/VHHH/LIRF
And if they take the northern route it will likely cross the Baltic sea, such as HKG-CDG.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/C...1/history/20150907/1605Z/VHHH/LFPG

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 10):
Britain is an island (though I feel someone will counter me with a super snarky response).

And HKG is exactly what type of land form?

The English Channel is no more a body of water than the Baltic Sea or the Pearl River Estuary.

thekorean · Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:07 pm

Ugh, more competition for KE. Not that that's necessarily bad but I don't want the MAD-ICN route to fold like cheap rent.

777way · Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:55 pm

Where else do they fly to Madrid from?

DolphinAir747 · Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:22 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 23):
And HKG is exactly what type of land form?

Well I guess CZ upriver at CAN wins then...

jetblue1965 · Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:41 pm

come to think of it ... there are quite a few major airports that reside on islands : LHR, JFK, HKG, NRT, KIX, ICN, SIN, YVR ....

jumpjets · Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:58 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 27):
there are quite a few major airports that reside on islands : LHR

If we are going to classify LHR as an island airport then I guess SYD, MEL, AKL, NRT, HND etc better be listed too.... Big grin

[Edited 2015-09-08 13:58:37]

jetblue1965 · Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:02 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 28):

If we are going to classify LHR as an island airport then I guess SYD, MEL, AKL, NRT, HND etc better be listed too....

I said LHR is on an island, not that itself is an island airport .... very subtle distinction there

SYD/MEL is the marginal case because many consider Australia a continent ... (or is it just a really big island?)

IADCA · Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:15 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 24):
Ugh, more competition for KE. Not that that's necessarily bad but I don't want the MAD-ICN route to fold like cheap rent.

I would think you'd be looking at a different market there: SkyTeam elites filling the front via UX feed and connections to NE Asia via KE. The CX service will likely pull some traffic that was already connecting to CX at LHR, although it will of course compete for that feed that was coming in through UX (via IB). Realistically, I would have thought the KE flight was already competing with other Skyteam flights through CDG and AMS for that connecting business. The connections on the Asia end should be different, of course.

Good luck to everyone involved.

PlymSpotter · Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:09 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 2):

It'll become the longest flight purely over land, replacing CDG-HKG.

Actually it will replace CDG-SGN (6,285 miles), not CDG-HKG (5,970 miles).

If you were to count HKG, then historically you could also count LIS-MFM (6,843 miles) as the longest commercial sector ever flown over land - I believe among the many one/two stop routings it was operated directly for a while.

Dan

RWA380 · Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:32 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 29):
SYD/MEL is the marginal case because many consider Australia a continent ... (or is it just a really big island?)

Well every Atlas I've ever seen refers to Australia as a Continent, I'm going to say big Island status goes to one island in the Hawaiian Islands.

HKG212 · Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:39 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
CX will announce HKG-MAD service

A no-brainer, as I have been saying for a long time in these forums... the rumor that BCN would come first never made sense to me.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 5):
This will help HKG pax access South America a lot easier. HKSAR passports are visa free transit through Schengen but must have a valid US visa to use the traditional gateways such as LAX/DFW/JFK.

Exactly. HKG-DFW on AA will be the biggest loser on this in my opinion.

TC957 · Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:27 am

A HKG - MAD service is long overdue IMO. I'm surprised IB haven't operated it before now.
Really hope LGW comes back on CX's route map too.

peterinlisbon · Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:30 pm

I've been suggesting this route for a long time. When I lived in Madrid about 10 years ago there were hardly any routes to Asia at all and I always thought that Hong Kong would be the perfect connection point for Southeast Asia and Australia from Madrid. Going the other way, this connects HK to almost every major city in South America.

atal17 · Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:01 am

Aaaand, it's official!

Cathay launches Madrid effective 02JUN16, using a 3-class Boeing B777-300ER

CX315 HKG0045 - 0845MAD 77W x135

CX320 MAD1225 - 0705+1HKG 77W x135

http://airlineroute.net/2015/09/10/cx-mad-jun16/

migair54 · Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:06 am

So its a 3 class B77W!!!!! No A350.Then why the delay to launch this route?? Maybe because the Spanish economic condition during the last few years.

It has a decent connecting to many SA flight in IB network, but it's around 3-4 hours. EZE, GRU, GIG, BOG, LIM, SCL, BOG, CCS.

I hope this route will do good and get a daily flight soon. It's great to see MAD going up in the pax and movements number, such a nice airport to transit, specially T-4.

By the way another great information from KarelXWB.

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
Word is on the street that CX will announce HKG-MAD service on Thursday.

scottpilgrim · Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:35 am

Now bookable on CX website, fares from HK$4690+tax

SCQ83 · Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:45 am

Quoting migair54 (Reply 37):
I hope this route will do good and get a daily flight soon. It's great to see MAD going up in the pax and movements number, such a nice airport to transit, specially T-4.

Too bad CX does not depart MAD 1 hour later... EK A380 arrives to MAD at 12.40 PM and QR B787 at 1.35 PM (Etihad is an early morning flight), otherwise they would meet at T4

.

Rafabozzolla · Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:12 am

I checked CX website, it´s a three class meaning C, Y+ and Y.

jfk777 · Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:07 pm

Cathay should continue the flight to GRU.

a380787 · Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:15 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 41):

CX is not SQ - they don't particularly like long tags. YVR-JFK is only kept because they have managed to built up such a loyal base of O&D. Their other tags are mostly really short ones. MAD-GRU tag would be a significant divergence from that strategy, plus stepping on both JJ and IB bread and butter route, two partners CX needs to keep their LatAm traffic flowing.

CX may not be super friendly to IAG but they certainly are with LAN-TAM.

airbazar · Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:09 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 31):

If you were to count HKG, then historically you could also count LIS-MFM

LIS-MFM was never non-stop. Initially it was LIS-BRU-MFM. Then changed to LIS-BKK-MFM. And finally it operated as LIS-IST-BKK-MFM.

jfk777 · Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:41 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 42):
CX is not SQ - they don't particularly like long tags. YVR-JFK is only kept because they have managed to built up such a loyal base of O&D. Their other tags are mostly really short ones. MAD-GRU tag would be a significant divergence from that strategy, plus stepping on both JJ and IB bread and butter route, two partners CX needs to keep their LatAm traffic flowing.

CX may not be super friendly to IAG but they certainly are with LAN-TAM.

GRU to Madrid is not the traditional IB route of Spanish speaking to Spanish speaking cities, TAM has many more important routes to Europe then Madrid like LHR, CDG and FRA from GRU. Cathay should touch Sao Paulo some how, Madrid may not be the best place to do it from. CX flying to GRU three times weekly should not upset Iberia, it should encourage IB to fly to Hong Kong.

a380787 · Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:53 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 44):

GRU to Madrid is not the traditional IB route of Spanish speaking to Spanish speaking cities, TAM has many more important routes to Europe then Madrid like LHR, CDG and FRA from GRU. Cathay should touch Sao Paulo some how, Madrid may not be the best place to do it from. CX flying to GRU three times weekly should not upset Iberia, it should encourage IB to fly to Hong Kong.

Just because it's not Spanish speaking doesn't make it non-core. Not counting the oddball CA tag flight, there's 4x daily GRU-MAD versus only 2x daily GRU-LIS (TAM doesn't even bother serving GRU-LIS, so that tells you the Portuguese linkage is not the biggest determining factor)

If CX were to touch GRU via a previous unserved / underserved destination, say ZRH, that's somewhat acceptable. CX entering MAD-GRU will most likely lead to bad blood.

But my question for you is - what does CX entering MAD-GRU achieve that their existing partners can't already ?

airbazar · Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:00 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 44):
GRU to Madrid is not the traditional IB route of Spanish speaking to Spanish speaking cities

And yet, not only is GRU, IB's largest destination in Latin America but IB is also the largest European carrier at GRU.

Edit:
I stand corrected. That was back in the days of BCN-GRU.
Nevertheless I think that twice daily to GRU is more than just about any other LA destination.

[Edited 2015-09-10 07:11:32]

behramjee · Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:07 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 45):
If CX were to touch GRU via a previous unserved / underserved destination, say ZRH, that's somewhat acceptable. CX entering MAD-GRU will most likely lead to bad blood.

CX will not launch Brazil for a while especially now that the country's economy has been rated as junk officially by S&P Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34205558

Also no need to fly to Brazil because it will offer an inconvenient 2 stop option to all of Asia via EU-HKG versus everyone else offering one stop hence more pax friendly. I dont know the mix of SQ pax on their GRU flights but I assume a lot must be consisting of 5th freedom BCN-GRU !

It is expected that CX would be code sharing with IB on their many LATAM routes via MAD + does CX code share with BA on their LHR-South America services? Btw CX can easily sustain a 4 weekly BCN service with an A359 along side MAD as the demand from both cities to SE Asia is very big !

jfk777 · Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:11 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 42):
CX is not SQ - they don't particularly like long tags.

Singapore Airlines is not on love with Tags, they just have to do them since flying from Singapore to he USA without them is not possible. We all know about the A340-500 nonstop and why they had to atop. SIN to JFK, SFO and LAX are not practical nonstop with A380 and 77W's. SQ wishes it could do what Cathay does with their 77W nonstop to Canada & the USA but geography in this case puts Singapore at a tremendous disadvantage.

aerokiwi · Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:18 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 5):
This will help HKG pax access South America a lot easier. HKSAR passports are visa free transit through Schengen but must have a valid US visa to use the traditional gateways such as LAX/DFW/JFK.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 37):
It has a decent connecting to many SA flight in IB network, but it's around 3-4 hours. EZE, GRU, GIG, BOG, LIM, SCL, BOG, CCS.

I'm pretty sure the AKL connection with LA to SCL and NZ to EZE (from December), alongside via SYD, is the shorter and easier route, requiring no visas for HKG residents. Faster would equal better, I'd imagine and no expensive tag ons, relying instead on partner airlines.

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