BA 777 On Fire At Las Vegas - Part 1

SpaceshipDC10 · Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:55 am

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 95):
Does anyone know if LAS is closed or is accepting flights?

There are flights departing and arriving on the north/south runways.

FlyCaledonian · Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:56 am

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 91):
Quoting panamair (Reply 80):
How the heck did they get their rollaboards down the slides??

Wheels first I imagine. While everyone else will be sleeping in their clothes tonight those smart few will be refreshed and maybe even able to get some work done seeing they have their laptops and chargers.

Those smart few? I realy hope you were being sarcastic. Given it's thirty years since the British Airtours Manchester disaster, when an uncontained engine failure and subsequent fire that penetrated the fuselage killed so many I can't believe the first thing people were thinking of was to get their carry-ons off.

BMcD · Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:56 am

With the people bringing their roll away suitcases down on the evac, it made me think. I travel with a service dog/wheelchair, how would an evac work for that? Does the dog go down with me and the FA help me to the nearest door or are there different protocols in place for that? I've (thankfully) never had to evac when I was able bodied much less in the state that I am in now. (if this should be moved to Tech/Ops I'd be happy to ask over there)

[Edited 2015-09-08 17:59:19]

n901wa · Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:56 am

Wow, The Bottom of the Nbr 1 Cowl is Torn Up. Glad it happen on the GND. Gearbox come apart? Wow, glad it ended well for everyone.

747megatop · Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:04 am

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 97):
the one runway was closed down for the time being.

I won't be surprised till they keep the runway close till the NTSB goes over every inch of that runway and collects anything that remotely resembles from having come from that port engine or anything remotely resembling a FOD that may have been ingested by the engine to have cause this. They should definitely plan on doing that before reopening the runway.

DesertFlyer · Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:06 am

Here is the mayday and evacuation recordings from LAS tower: http://soundcloud.com/parkerday/brit...76-mayday-and-evacuation-recording

The interesting parts are at 30 seconds and 1:40.

[Edited 2015-09-08 18:16:41]

Sooner787 · Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:08 am

Quoting peanuts (Reply 93):
Not only is the 59% LF a headache for BA this early Wednesday morning

I wonder how many of those pax will hop a ride on the BA 744 flight to LHR later tonight?

osiris30 · Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:10 am

Gotta wonder if that was FOD that made that engine blowup like that. Don't think I've ever seen a ge90 even close to that torn up.

RickNRoll · Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:17 am

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 106):

Gotta wonder if that was FOD that made that engine blowup like that. Don't think I've ever seen a ge90 even close to that torn up.

If you have enough engines running for enough hours sooner or later something like this has to happen. It's impossible to prevent every accident.

Airplanepics · Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:23 am

I flew on G-VIIO last week, such a shame as it was a lovely flight - here's hoping they can get her back in the air as soon as possible.

http://flic.kr/p/yph6gr

[Edited 2015-09-08 18:25:33]

Chaostheory · Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:24 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 99):
How much fuel is on board?

About 60t.

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 99):
Why are passengers so close to it afterwards?

Good job by the aircraft and firefighting crew. As you correctly note however, there doesn't seem to be anyone there to shepherd the passengers, at least not for those evacuating from the rear. I would have thought airport operators would have learnt the lessons after the 777 crash at SFO.

airtechy · Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:27 am

.....and now the thread will morph into a discussion of people taking their carry on bags with them. A discussion which we have after every plane evacuation.

7BOEING7 · Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:28 am

With all the engine monitoring going on these days the engine manufacturer can spot trends before the airline ever has a clue. In this case I'm guessing one part became two and the engine suddenly became a grenade. Severed fuel and hydraulic lines provided most of the pyrotechnics.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 87):
Really lucky that this didn't happen after takeoff.

Sometimes an uncontained engine failure in flight isn't such a bad thing. In most cases all you've lost is an engine and you're not stopped in the middle of a camp fire.

usxguy · Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:30 am

Delta 2235 going around just as this happened... I guess they saw the fire/smoke..

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/D...5/history/20150908/2210Z/KLAX/KLAS

76794p · Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:33 am

Quoting usxguy (Reply 113):

The tower controller instructed them to go around. A NK flight also went around.

ArmitageShanks · Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:36 am

Quoting airtechy (Reply 111):

.....and now the thread will morph into a discussion of people taking their carry on bags with them. A discussion which we have after every plane evacuation.

Exactly. A bunch of typical do-gooders trying to tell me what I can and cannot do after I deem the situation safe. If I am willing to put myself in harms way after you get your butt out what do you care!

wstakl · Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:38 am

Quoting airtechy (Reply 111):

.....and now the thread will morph into a discussion of people taking their carry on bags with them. A discussion which we have after every plane evacuation.

I think we should wait for the usual a.net armchair pilots and engineers to give their expert summary before getting on to that topic.

Whiteguy · Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:39 am

Quoting usxguy (Reply 113):

Delta 2235 going around just as this happened... I guess they saw the fire/smoke..

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/D...5/history/20150908/2210Z/KLAX/KLAS

xx

They were instructed to go around by ATC....

DesertFlyer · Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:46 am

This is a better quality recording of ATC: http://soundcloud.com/parkerday/british-airways-777-fire-klas

Very professionally handled by all.

B8887 · Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:51 am

I suppose a group of GE engineers is boarding a flight to LAS as we speak.

Regards.

B8887

richierich · Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:52 am

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 26):
Lol really? It's like happening right now and you are asking people sitting on their computers if it's a write off?

It's a logical question given the interest in airliners and the knowledge that everybody made it safely off the aircraft.
If it is a w/o, it will be the 6th B777 hull loss by my count - with two each coming from MH and BA. Who would have guessed that?

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 89):
Awesome job to the flight and cabin crew and to the firefighters! This could have been SO much worse. Almost reminds me of the TWA L1011 at JFK long ago that was completely destroyed by a fire during takeoff and everyone got out safely thanks to the crew. This BA 777 was a little more lucky than the TWA 1011.

I saw that plane, it was awful. It was also going a whole lot faster than this BA jet was when the fire occurred, as far as I know, and it went off the runway as it came to rest.

flightsimer · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:00 am

Quoting panamair (Reply 90):

If you listen carefully, you can hear the controller telling Speed Bird that Fire services are already on their way as they begin to request them.

It looks like in the bottom photo of this link posted earlier that the fuselage may have been penetrated by the fire as well.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...es-fire-at-las-vegas-airport#img-2

northwestEWR · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:06 am

Quoting panamair (Reply 90):
LAS ATC recording during Speedbird 2276 takeoff:

https://clyp.it/jrvdzhrw

Incredible professionalism by the crew. They don't sound the least bit concerned. My hats off to you gentlemen.

Quoting litz (Reply 92):
That thing's shredded ...

Pure speculation, but un-contained turbine failure?

Those high speed, high pressure discs are pretty much unstoppable if they fail; we've seen several cases in the past where such a failure has led to a runaway fire (AA lost a 767 this way).

That's my thinking at this point. SCARY.

Quoting brewfangrb (Reply 96):
If someone in front of me tries grabbing a bag during an emergency evacuation, that person's going to end up with some serious non-crash injuries.

You can buy more junk. You can't buy another life. Fuel + Ignition source = BAD, I'm getting the hell away from that airplane.

Okie · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:08 am

Does BA own the GE engines outright or do they lease the turbines? (Power by the Hour)

Okie

northstardc4m · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:08 am

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 121):

Quoting panamair (Reply 90):

It looks like in the bottom photo of this link posted earlier that the fuselage may have been penetrated by the fire as well.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...es-fire-at-las-vegas-airport#img-2

I fear that this is indeed a "damaged beyond economic repair"... I just don't see the value of a nearly 17 year old 777 being high enough to offset that much frame damage

MrBuzzcut · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:10 am

I assume since this happened at a US airport the NTSB will conduct the investigation, does the British equivalent agency conduct a parallel investigation, are they invited to help the NTSB, or is it at their option?

Moose135 · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:13 am

The NTSB will conduct the investigation. The British will be part of it, probably as an observer to the investigation.

A332DTW · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:14 am

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 115):

Exactly. A bunch of typical do-gooders trying to tell me what I can and cannot do after I deem the situation safe. If I am willing to put myself in harms way after you get your butt out what do you care!

Because you are putting other peoples' lives at risk when you delay an evacuation by grabbing your luggage, and then creating a mess at the door when you're supposed to jump.

richierich · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:14 am

Quoting MrBuzzcut (Reply 125):
I assume since this happened at a US airport the NTSB will conduct the investigation, does the British equivalent agency conduct a parallel investigation, are they invited to help the NTSB, or is it at their option?

I would imagine the AAIB will be involved, as might the engine manufacturer, but the NTSB will have final responsibility for determining what happened.

Viscount724 · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:15 am

Quoting richierich (Reply 120):
Quoting trnswrld (Reply 89):
Awesome job to the flight and cabin crew and to the firefighters! This could have been SO much worse. Almost reminds me of the TWA L1011 at JFK long ago that was completely destroyed by a fire during takeoff and everyone got out safely thanks to the crew. This BA 777 was a little more lucky than the TWA 1011.

I saw that plane, it was awful. It was also going a whole lot faster than this BA jet was when the fire occurred, as far as I know, and it went off the runway as it came to rest.

Also reminds me of the Overseas National Airways DC-10-30 at JFK in 1975. Ingested birds into No. 3 engine during takeoff for FRA, en route to Saudi Arabia. That could also have been much worse. Fortunately all 139 aboard escaped with only 2 serious injuries and 30 minor injuries. Probably helped the evacuation that all aboard were ONA employees, mostly crews, heading to Saudi Arabia to operate Hajj charters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kiifVK92NA
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19751112-1

Okie · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:19 am

Quoting MrBuzzcut (Reply 125):
I assume since this happened at a US airport the NTSB will conduct the investigation, does the British equivalent agency conduct a parallel investigation, are they invited to help the NTSB, or is it at their option?

NTSB will conduct the investigation since on US soil but most likely invite the AAIB to have a representative along with airframe and engine manufacturers.

I would guess the NTSB will give the investigation extended scrutiny since this is an ETOPS rated aircraft off the assembly line.

Okie

railker · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:19 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 129):
Quoting richierich (Reply 120):
Quoting trnswrld (Reply 89):
Awesome job to the flight and cabin crew and to the firefighters! This could have been SO much worse. Almost reminds me of the TWA L1011 at JFK long ago that was completely destroyed by a fire during takeoff and everyone got out safely thanks to the crew. This BA 777 was a little more lucky than the TWA 1011.

I saw that plane, it was awful. It was also going a whole lot faster than this BA jet was when the fire occurred, as far as I know, and it went off the runway as it came to rest.

Also reminds me of the Overseas National Airways DC-10-30 at JFK in 1975. Ingested birds into No. 3 engine during takeoff for FRA, en route to Saudi Arabia. That could also have been much worse. Fortunately all 139 aboard escaped with only 2 serious injuries and 30 minor injuries. Probably helped the evacuation that all aboard were ONA employees, mostly crews, heading to Saudi Arabia to operate Hajj charters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kiifVK92NA
http://aviation-safety.net/database/...112-1

What comes to my mind is Air Canada 797, was just looking this article up for Reddit. Everyone wasn't quite so lucky in this case, aircraft flashed over partway through evacuation. 46 on board, 23 fatalities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canada_Flight_797

And if it hasn't been mentioned yet, someone correct CNN in their assumption that 'aborted takeoff' means the plane just spontaneously combusted on the taxiway and the Captain decided not to take off.

[Edited 2015-09-08 19:21:12]

Chaostheory · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:22 am

Quoting Okie (Reply 123):
Does BA own the GE engines outright or do they lease the turbines? (Power by the Hour)

Maintenance (power by hour) and the ownership in majority of instances are separate. A new GE90-90B will set you back $35m.

Quoting MrBuzzcut (Reply 125):
does the British equivalent agency conduct a parallel investigation

No. The aaib will however send over an investigator and the airline will probably appoint a representative too. Just a few extra hands to chase the paper trail in the UK.

TheRedBaron · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:25 am

Glad everyone got out safe.

It looks real bad from the video and one of the pictures shows the fuselage pretty burned up, I hope they can fix it but if it got bent, it will be a write off, such a shame ! Guess the guys at GE are going to investigate how such a engine failure can be so sudden and catastrophic....

TRB

washingtonflyer · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:28 am

Reporting now 14 hospitalized.

IMissPiedmont · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:32 am

Quoting peanuts (Reply 50):

Good one!

holzmann · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:33 am

I saw the headline on CNN and could make out the company from the livery...and of course my gut reaction was, "The 787 is really done for now!"

So thankful that everyone is alive and well. Congrats to crew, ATC and ground safety services for being so professional.

But in no way should BA use this as an opportunity to throw mud at GE. Could have been BA38. Could have been RR.

Brewfangrb · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:35 am

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 115):
Exactly. A bunch of typical do-gooders trying to tell me what I can and cannot do after I deem the situation safe. If I am willing to put myself in harms way after you get your butt out what do you care!

Hey, if you're in a window seat and you want to stay seated until EVERY SINGLE PERSON is off the aircraft and then you want to get your bag, go nuts. But if you try to do this even 1 second before everyone is off, you are putting people at risk. Period.

EA CO AS · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:38 am

From one article:

One of the passengers evacuating was Jacob Steinberg, a sports writer with the Guardian newspaper in the United Kingdom. He tweeted that a few people had cuts or bruises from the emergency slide.

He also said people shouldn’t criticize passengers who took their carry-on luggage with them during the evacuation.

Why on earth not? They deserve to be criticized! What if someone's carry-on ruptured a slide? Or the act of retrieving belongings delayed evacuation, resulting in injury or death?

Sorry, but these people who take their things in an evacuation need to be criticized, loudly and publicly, if possible.

A35J · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:46 am

Quoting brewfangrb (Reply 137):
Hey, if you're in a window seat and you want to stay seated until EVERY SINGLE PERSON is off the aircraft and then you want to get your bag, go nuts. But if you try to do this even 1 second before everyone is off, you are putting people at risk. Period.

He would also be putting people's lives at risk if he waited until everyone was gone before collecting his bag. Think of the potential rescuers who might come onto the plane knowing someone was still on board who could be injured or worse.

That said, I completely understand how someone in the confusion of an evacuation would unthinkingly try and collect their bag - people do things they otherwise wouldn't dream of when they're in a state of shock.

However, knowingly collecting your bag, especially as an aviation enthusiast who understands the potential consequences, is one of the most extraordinarily selfish and unforgivable things to do. It is ...

Quoting brewfangrb (Reply 137):
putting people at risk. Period.

Edited to correct grammar

[Edited 2015-09-08 20:01:33]

ArmitageShanks · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:46 am

Quoting A332DTW (Reply 127):
Because you are putting other peoples' lives at risk when you delay an evacuation by grabbing your luggage, and then creating a mess at the door when you're supposed to jump.

What about the morbidly obese passenger that takes way more time to move about or the handicapped guy in 22C who can barely walk but chose to endanger the public by flying? What about the idiot who automatically runs forward blocking passengers going rearward to the nearest exit? Just raising fair arguments here. Time = money and my work has to be done so I need my laptop. All I'm saying.

spacecadet · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:46 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 138):
They deserve to be criticized!

They deserve to be arrested, is what they deserve. Or at least banned from ever flying again. This is clearly against airline rules at the very least.

aeroflop · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:50 am

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 115):
Exactly. A bunch of typical do-gooders trying to tell me what I can and cannot do after I deem the situation safe. If I am willing to put myself in harms way after you get your butt out what do you care!

What makes you the expert in the situation? The order is to evacuate and it's not up for discussion and you deciding to block the alley while you mess around with the overhead locker trying to get your worthless belongings out.

litz · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:52 am

I think the guy's point is ... passengers are not trained professionals.

If they were, and they STILL grabbed their bags, that's one thing ... but in an emergency panic, how the heck are you gonna expect people to think rationally?

I rather suspect that the certification requirement for a 90 second evacuation is taking into account the "grab your bags" idiots as well.

TW870 · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:59 am

From a watch of the Youtube video above, it looks like very good situational awareness and crew coordination. It is especially impressive that the flight attendants opted not to open 3L. It would be a tough call, as you could get people out more quickly, and the fire looks to have been centered forward of the wing. But I bet they were getting some blow-back under the wing, and it looks like a smart move to have kept 3L closed to avoid a situation like the CO DC-10 at LAX in '79. It even sounds like they were taking in a lot of smoke through 4L eventually - so keeping 3L closed likely kept visibility and breathing much better in the cabin for the duration of the evacuation.

Oroka · Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:03 am

Quoting wstakl (Reply 116):
I think we should wait for the usual a.net armchair pilots and engineers to give their expert summary before getting on to that topic.

- Go on aviation forum
- Dont discuss aviation related topic like evacuation safety
- ???
- Profit!

rbavfan · Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:03 am

So it was a GE powered 777-200 not a roller. I remember BA did not like the engine due to issues they had with it. Be interesting to see after all this time if it was one of those issues that caused it or just a broken fuel line.

AR385 · Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:09 am

Quoting airtechy (Reply 111):
A discussion which we have after every plane evacuation.

And I always contribute this:

I participated so far in two emergency evacs. I´ll talk about one:

1) A full 727-200 which engine no.2 blew at V1. Total chaos. Everyone for themselves. People climbing over the seats. I could not get over to the aisles until I started punching, kicking and elbowing my way into the aisle. I exited via R1. The slide? I was wearing jeans and chaffed my buttocks and thighs. People wearing shorts and flip flops? Must have left their skin smeared in the slide. It´s not like in the neat videos on YouTube on evac tests made for certification. Nothing like that.

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 140):
Time = money and my work has to be done so I need my laptop. All I'm saying.

I

You don´t get it. For example. If there is smoke in the cabin and the Captain has said "Evacuate, Evacuate" over the PA and you stop in the aisle for your stupid laptop. You will:

1) Be moved along by the mass and probably fall, whereas you will trampled.

2) Someone will remove you from the way BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE, in order to pass.

Both are not pretty, and will definitely lower your chance of survival. For a laptop.

flyingclrs727 · Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:11 am

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 140):
Time = money and my work has to be done so I need my laptop. All I'm saying.

Back up your data online before boarding the plane. Also, data could be backed up onto a flash drive or memory card that could be carried in a pocket.

Miami · Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:15 am

A tweet from Boeing

Quote:
Boeing is prepared to provide technical assistance to the NTSB following today's incident at McCarran Airport in Las Vegas.

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