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qf789
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EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:57 am

Planned introduction of 2-class A380 on Dubai – London Gatwick EK009/010 from 01JAN16, will be re-assigned to Dubai – Manchester EK019/020.

LGW will still remained unchanged with being all A380 but will now be all operated by 3 class A380.

Schedules are as follows:

EK011 DXB0250 – 0640LGW 388 D
EK015 DXB0800 – 1150LGW 388 D
EK009 DXB1440 – 1825LGW 388 D

EK012 LGW0940 – 2035DXB 388 D
EK016 LGW1335 – 0035+1DXB 388 D
EK010 LGW2010 – 0655+1DXB 388 D


EK021 DXB0300 – 0700MAN 77W D
EK017 DXB0720 – 1120MAN 388 D
EK019 DXB1440 – 1835MAN 388 D

EK022 MAN0845 – 1945DXB 77W D
EK018 MAN1310 – 0025+1DXB 388 D
EK020 MAN2025 – 0740+1DXB 388 D

http://airlineroute.net/2015/09/14/qr-manlgw-jan16/

Interesting to see MAN get the 2 class A380 over LGW
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BlueShamu330s
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:44 am

MAN require the extra seats whilst maintaining the freight capacity of a B77W rotation during the day and also offering F on 2 of the the 3 daily services.

It's the most natural progression before introducing the 4th daily.

Rgds.
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SCQ83
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:20 am

The UK is all about London... that is where the money is. BA and IAG know that very well.  
 
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nighthawk
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:52 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 2):
The UK is all about London... that is where the money is. BA and IAG know that very well.  

So why has Emirates being operating 3 class A380's successfully into MAN for 5 years now? So successfully, that they recently added a second A380...
 
SKAirbus
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:12 am

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 3):
So why has Emirates being operating 3 class A380's successfully into MAN for 5 years now? So successfully, that they recently added a second A380...

Of course there is a market up North. Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool etc are becoming increasingly affluent and this is reflected in the increase in premium flights from MAN.

However, LGW appears to be able to support three class aircraft more than MAN, hence why the 2 class A380 is being relocated there. It does mean, however, that MAN will have more seats per day than LGW, but LGW will have more premium seats.
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:19 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 2):
The UK is all about London...

Some people from other regions within the UK might disagree.... oh, wait a moment....

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 3):
So why....

  
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:37 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 2):
The UK is all about London... that is where the money is.

I guess that's why MAN got the A380 before LGW...

But parochial willy waving aside, let's crunch some figures.

3 daily 3-class A380s to LGW provide 42F, 228 C and 1197 Y, total 1197 daily seats to the sandpit.

MAN's new rotations provide 22F, 176 C and 1260 Y, total 1458 daily seats to the sand pit. This enables to premium passengers to still connect to any point in the Emirates network.

Freight-wise, three A380s at LGW allow for an absolute maximum uplift of 24 tonnes daily.

Two A380s and one B77W through MAN, however, allow for an uplift of 39 tonnes daily each way.

The freight capacity is an important factor in determining the allocation of hardware to the MAN route. As previously stated, the upguage in capacity to a 2-class A380 is the next progression before introducing a fourth daily service which, to return to the parochial will waving you seem to want to encourage, will come before LGW gets theirs.  

Rgds
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migair54
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:36 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 2):
The UK is all about London... that is where the money is. BA and IAG know that very well.  

I think He's just being sarcastic. We have discussed long about this London/UK single hub vs multiple and and we always only agree that we disagree.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 6):
3 daily 3-class A380s to LGW provide 42F, 228 C and 1197 Y, total 1197 daily seats to the sandpit.

MAN's new rotations provide 22F, 176 C and 1260 Y, total 1458 daily seats to the sand pit. This enables to premium passengers to still connect to any point in the Emirates network.

MAN=1458
LGW=1467

So LGW and MAN are very close by, however looks like yields are better in LGW and cargo is bigger in MAN, I think EK cargo operates LON freight only plane also.

The difference of 20F and 42C is not a joke in terms of money, it's a lot of revenue if they can fill that seats.

Maybe if cargo keep growing in MAN we could see a cargo flight or a stop added to some current routes and then a third daily A380, the 4th daily flight could be an option also but maybe we are talking about too much capacity and a possible situation where they have to adjust fares down to fill so many seats.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:48 am

Oops, sorry; pre coffee functioning is never good. I'll remember to do the addition next time...  
Quoting migair54 (Reply 7):
Maybe if cargo keep growing in MAN we could see a cargo flight

You're looking at a jump up to a 100+ tonne capacity aircraft and SkyCargo has a limited dedicated freight only fleet. The vast majority flows through the passenger fleet bellies, so I can't ever see MAN having a regular SkyCargo freight service TBH.

When the fourth daily service launches though, the premium balance ought to be returned, as I would imagine it would initially be a 3 class B77W. Premium demand is there; however, there is a pressing demand to shift ever more Y currently before a fourth service can be launched; and all this is despite Etihad upguaging to double daily with the B77W.

Rgds
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qf002
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:05 am

I'll be on EK19 in mid-December, don't suppose EK might decide to start the service a couple of weeks early?

Coming back on EK22 so no chance of an improvement there, but guaranteed new seats/IFE and an upper deck seat on the flight up would have been nice.
 
col
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:36 am

Was hoping for 3 x 380 into MAN. The 77W maybe carry more freight, but the noise and cramped seating make the PAX feel like freight too.
 
David_itl
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:39 am

Is it pertinent to say that when LGW was 3 daily 3 class aircraft and MAN was 2 daily 77W, EK said MAN was more profitable - this was from around the time when they announced the A380 was goimg to MAN.
 
jfk777
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:20 pm

The 2-class A380 has the strangest J class layout I have ever seen. Its in the rear half of the upper deck with economy on the front half of the upper deck. Why isn't j class where it should be in the forward parts of the upper deck.
 
sq_ek_freak
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:04 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):

The 2-class A380 has the strangest J class layout I have ever seen. Its in the rear half of the upper deck with economy on the front half of the upper deck. Why isn't j class where it should be in the forward parts of the upper deck.

The Business Class lounge at the rear of the upper deck.

Though it is indeed an odd layout.
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migair54
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:28 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 8):
You're looking at a jump up to a 100+ tonne capacity aircraft and SkyCargo has a limited dedicated freight only fleet. The vast majority flows through the passenger fleet bellies, so I can't ever see MAN having a regular SkyCargo freight service TBH.

The full plane can uplift 100 tonnes or more, but i´m not talking about a dedicated DXB-MAN cargo route but a stop in some of the rotation, maybe 1-2 week, so they can uplift all the cargo they can´t do in the A380. For example EK currently flies routes like:
-Dubai – Zaragoza – Mexico City – Los Angeles – Copenhagen – Dubai 1 weekly
-Dubai – Zaragoza – Mexico City – Houston – Copenhagen – Dubai 1 weekly
-2 weekly 74Y Dubai – Amsterdam – Gothenburg – Dubai
-Dubai DWC – Kano – Dakar – Lyon – Dubai DWC
-Dubai DWC – Kano – Dakar – Frankfurt – Dubai DWC

And many more, so they could get some business from different points, i´m not sure where is the cargo coming or going in MAN case but i´m sure EK work out something.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):
The 2-class A380 has the strangest J class layout I have ever seen. Its in the rear half of the upper deck with economy on the front half of the upper deck. Why isn't j class where it should be in the forward parts of the upper deck.

It is very strange indeed, specially for priority pax to disembark after landing, maybe it has something to be with seat numbers and systems for check in, i´m not sure. And by the way it looks much better the business in the 3 class EK A380 (1-2-1) than in the 2 class (2-4-2).
 
qf002
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:29 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 14):
And by the way it looks much better the business in the 3 class EK A380 (1-2-1) than in the 2 class (2-4-2).

The seats are exactly the same.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:33 pm

Quoting col (Reply 10):
Was hoping for 3 x 380 into MAN. The 77W maybe carry more freight, but the noise and cramped seating make the PAX feel like freight too.

The B77W is a beast, but I agree from a passenger POV. To clarify, the 4 daily breakdown, I was led to believe, would be 2 x 3 class A380, 1 x 2 class A380 and 1 x B77W ultimately.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):
The 2-class A380 has the strangest J class layout I have ever seen. Its in the rear half of the upper deck with economy on the front half of the upper deck. Why isn't j class where it should be in the forward parts of the upper deck.
Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 13):
The Business Class lounge at the rear of the upper deck.

  

Really awkward at stations with only 2 airbridges like, err, MAN....

Rgds
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Danfearn77
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:46 pm

MAN performs really well for EK and the premium cabins are healthy. As others have stated they are in urgent need of more seats as their load factors are very high. I also expect a 4th daily 77W to be announced in the near term which will reinstate the premium cabin count from MAN. Until then they need the extra capacity.
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TC957
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:07 pm

I just checked some early June ' 16 dates in Galileo and the evening flights EK9 / 10 to/from LGW is showing a 2-class 380.
 
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:42 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):

The 2-class A380 has the strangest J class layout I have ever seen. Its in the rear half of the upper deck with economy on the front half of the upper deck. Why isn't j class where it should be in the forward parts of the upper deck.

People just cannot get over that EK chose to keep the bar.  
Apparently it sells J.

I speculate at Airports with 3 air bridges, Y will go down the stairs.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 16):
Really awkward at stations with only 2 airbridges like, err, MAN....

That it will be. If MAN ever goes 2X/day A380, they should build a 3 airbridge gate. Assuming EK is willing to sign a lease.

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gkirk
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:47 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 19):
That it will be. If MAN ever goes 2X/day A380, they should build a 3 airbridge gate. Assuming EK is willing to sign a lease.

Already is 2 x daily A380, 1 x B77W  
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:49 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 6):
Freight-wise, three A380s at LGW allow for an absolute maximum uplift of 24 tonnes daily.

Two A380s and one B77W through MAN, however, allow for an uplift of 39 tonnes daily each way.

A question for you Blue, do you know how much of the 39 tonnes DXB-MAN-DXB available daily is used on a daily/weekly basis? Or anyone know how much freight EK carry to/from the UK on a daily/weekly basis? IIRC there is over 200 tonnes available daily, I'm very intrested in the load factor at the various airports.
 
boysteve
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:20 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 19):
That it will be. If MAN ever goes 2X/day A380, they should build a 3 airbridge gate. Assuming EK is willing to sign a lease.

Well MAN will not be building anything inless it is part of their 2025 Master Plan, which incidentally I have not heard of any progress on the design lately.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:28 pm

Quoting ncfc99 (Reply 21):
A question for you Blue, do you know how much of the 39 tonnes DXB-MAN-DXB available daily is used on a daily/weekly basis? Or anyone know how much freight EK carry to/from the UK on a daily/weekly basis? IIRC there is over 200 tonnes available daily, I'm very intrested in the load factor at the various airports.

I don't know hard figures.

I do know their SkyCargo office is constantly rammed at MAN and that, along with the economic downturn, they took a fair proportion of business away from the Cathay 038 multi-stop which itself used to route through DXB before ceasing.

Some days, freight still finds its way down the M6 to back fill the BHX.

Rgds
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RyanairGuru
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:09 pm

I'm not sure why people are so sure that "yields are higher at LGW". Maybe it is me, but a straight swap between two previously announced capacity allocations suggests that the routes are very comparable. After all, LGW clearly isn't such a yield goldmine that they wouldn't send a 2 class frame there. I think some people are reading far too much into simple tweaks around the edges.
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ManchesterMAN
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:28 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 16):
Really awkward at stations with only 2 airbridges like, err, MAN....

Why would this be any more awkward with 2 airbridges compared with 3? You still only have one to the upper deck and they simply hold back the folks in the front Y cabin to allow J class to exit (or use the stairs). Having an extra airbridge wouldn't change this scenario??
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TKA380
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:32 pm

Is the configuration C58/Y557?
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:54 am

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 25):
Why would this be any more awkward with 2 airbridges compared with 3? You still only have one to the upper deck and they simply hold back the folks in the front Y cabin to allow J class to exit (or use the stairs). Having an extra airbridge wouldn't change this scenario??

J can't use the front stairs to exit via LDL1 because the J cabin is at the rear of the upper deck. To exit via the lower deck, they'd have to walk through the upper Y cabin, with people already upstanding and retrieving their carryons. They will have to leave via UDL1. I was really referring to the logistics of then getting 557Y out of a two bridge gate after waiting for J to leave; it remains to be seen what impact it has on turnaround times; 417 lower deck Y passengers through one exit is going to be "interesting".   

It will also be interesting to see how the end of pier B copes with a full 2-class load outbound.   

Ultimately though, it's good news for MAN; it's a capacity hike and EK have no trouble filling them.

Rgds
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qf789
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:59 am

Quoting TKA380 (Reply 26):
Is the configuration C58/Y557?

Yes, here's a seat map

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Emi...Airlines_Airbus_A380_Two_Class.php
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Ncfc99
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:40 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 23):
Some days, freight still finds its way down the M6 to back fill the BHX.

Thanks, sounds like a 4th daily 77W would be ideal next step.

If the 4th daily does materialise, what will the likely timings be?
 
David_itl
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RE: EK 2 Class A380 To MAN, LGW To Go All 3 Class A380

Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:02 pm

Quoting ncfc99 (Reply 29):

If the 4th daily does materialise, what will the likely timings be?

Meant to be shadowiing EK17/18. - think it's 1 to 2 hours behind (flight numbers EK23/24) The way MAN operation is runs is like how they did LHR.


With over 76,000 passengers carried is August, you can see why they will "sacrifice" F class on EK19/20 to allow some wiggle space for growth pending further deliveries of 77W & A380.

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