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777X
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757/767 Scimitar Winglet

Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:35 pm

We're now seeing many airlines adopt the new APB split scimitar winglet, which I think makes the 737 look even better.

I know that it was announced that the scimitar winglet would be developed for the 757 and 767. Does anyone know the timeline of this part of the program, or what airlines will install them?
 
SWADawg
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RE: 757/767 Scimitar Winglet

Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:31 pm

Probably not very many. Apparently the scimitar winglets don't deliver fuel savings that were originally advertised and several Airlines are suing APB for the cost of the installation of these winglets. I think that a few Airlines are even considering taking the existing scimitars off their 737 fleets and returning them to APB.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
micstatic
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RE: 757/767 Scimitar Winglet

Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:34 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 1):

Probably not very many. Apparently the scimitar winglets don't deliver fuel savings that were originally advertised and several Airlines are suing APB for the cost of the installation of these winglets. I think that a few Airlines are even considering taking the existing scimitars off their 737 fleets and returning them to APB.

that's good to hear, because I think they are extremely undesirable to look at
 
maddogjt8d
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RE: 757/767 Scimitar Winglet

Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:43 pm

Much as I like the idea of the 757/767 with split scimitars, I think by the time this became certified and "on the market", most airlines will have retired their 757/767 fleets en-mass. As it is, a number of airlines are retiring the older examples of these types and only keeping late-build low-cycle examples, and even then, those will probably only last another 10 years or so. I think this is just too-little too-late for this type. Sad as it is to say, the 757 and 767 are starting to reach the end of their useful lives, in passenger service at least.
 
777X
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RE: 757/767 Scimitar Winglet

Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:43 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 1):

Really?! I never heard that! What airlines?

I'd think that it would make much more sense on the 757 and 767 than on the 737, because they fly such longer routes.

[Edited 2015-09-15 07:45:36]
 
mcoatc
Posts: 173
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RE: 757/767 Scimitar Winglet

Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:21 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 1):
Probably not very many. Apparently the scimitar winglets don't deliver fuel savings that were originally advertised and several Airlines are suing APB for the cost of the installation of these winglets. I think that a few Airlines are even considering taking the existing scimitars off their 737 fleets and returning them to APB.


Have you any articles to back this, because with 1900 sets sold and airlines continuing to order them, this sounds a bit dubious.

It seems a bit strange that a company with APB's experience would miss the mark by that much.
 
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barney captain
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RE: 757/767 Scimitar Winglet

Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:03 pm

This rumour has been circulating around WN for a few months - that we have stopped installing them and may in fact be removing them. The stated reasons vary and again, I've never seen anything official.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Sinlock
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RE: 757/767 Scimitar Winglet

Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:07 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 1):
Apparently the scimitar winglets don't deliver fuel savings that were originally advertised and several Airlines are suing APB for the cost of the installation of these winglets


In what US Court, how about listing a court docket number.
 
Sooner787
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RE: 757/767 Scimitar Winglet

Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:54 pm

Quoting barney captain (Reply 6):
This rumour has been circulating around WN for a few months - that we have stopped installing them and may in fact be removing them. The stated reasons vary and again, I've never seen anything official.

Could be that the price of fuel has dropped to a point where the ROI doesn't justify them right now   
 
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seabosdca
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RE: 757/767 Scimitar Winglet

Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:05 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 1):
Apparently the scimitar winglets don't deliver fuel savings that were originally advertised and several Airlines are suing APB for the cost of the installation of these winglets.

Where's the beef?   

A lawsuit is public. A lawsuit over the split scimitars would have been big news in the aviation press.
 
BA777
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Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 11:40 pm

RE: 757/767 Scimitar Winglet

Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:07 pm

Or the operational impacts of them being easier to strike during takeoff/landing, reduced crosswind limits or the risk of fuel trucks driving into them...
 
UA444
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RE: 757/767 Scimitar Winglet

Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:10 pm

Quoting maddogjt8d (Reply 3):

Nonsense. Most airlines are keeping their 767s and the newest pax model is barely a year old.
 
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csturdiv
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RE: 757/767 Scimitar Winglet

Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:49 pm

Quoting micstatic (Reply 2):
that's good to hear, because I think they are extremely undesirable to look at

It is a good thing then that winglets and scimitar winglets are not deployed based upon their attractiveness and they are rather deployed based upon their effectiveness.
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD
 
Okcflyer
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RE: 757/767 Scimitar Winglet

Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:58 pm

Several thousand 737's NG's are in service with hundred more to be delivered soon. Barely 1000 757/767's combined will be in service within a couple years, and each would be its own design and certification process. No way it's even close to economically feasible.
 
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CALTECH
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RE: 757/767 Scimitar Winglet

Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:28 pm

Quoting 777X (Thread starter):
We're now seeing many airlines adopt the new APB split scimitar winglet, which I think makes the 737 look even better.

I know that it was announced that the scimitar winglet would be developed for the 757 and 767. Does anyone know the timeline of this part of the program, or what airlines will install them?
http://leehamnews.com/2015/04/14/avi...-next-step-a-scimitar-for-757-767/

"April 14, 2015
Aviation Partners Boeing plans the Split Scimitar Winglet (SSW) for the Boeing 757 and 767. Officials plan to seek board approval on the 757 SSW this year, the 767 next year. "

They haven't updated their plans yet.

As far as the claims on the Scimitar winglets, must be a bunch of folks in on the conspiracy that they are not performing as well as advertised. That is a crock. Southwest hasn't removed any of their Scimitars on their 737-800s, and that is all they have ordered them for. Just watch if all the new 737-800 deliveries come with Scimitars. Oh, and those 737-800s were converted from 737-700s for delivery in 2016.

http://www.seattletimes.com/business...r-shift-to-larger-boeing-737-800s/

"May 13, 2015
Southwest Airlines will switch all 31 pending aircraft orders for 2016 to larger versions of the Boeing 737 as the carrier expands within the U.S. and adds new international markets.

The swap will bring Southwest’s 737-800 fleet to 135 by the end of next year, the Dallas-based airline said in a statement Wednesday.

Southwest will evaluate its needs before deciding whether to take 25 of the larger version in 2017 and 2018 instead of the -700s on order, he said. Southwest hasn’t taken a new -700 since 2011, buying at least 45 used versions of the plane instead."

It is more that fuel is low and spending 1.5 million for Scimitars, and another $500,000 to $1,000,000 to install them on 460 + 737-700s at a cost of 2 to 2.5 million per aircraft, is a expenditure Southwest might not want to do right now. That comes out to close to a billion dollars. See nothing of Southwest removing them, unless while on the ground they are getting ramp rash.

In the air, they are performing as advertised.
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Max Q
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RE: 757/767 Scimitar Winglet

Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:56 am

They are very ugly, hope we don't see this.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
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CALTECH
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RE: 757/767 Scimitar Winglet

Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:40 pm

Hope we see more of them, especially on the big uns,

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5b/af/80/5baf80b225e2f4e1c107eae4ddd6c673.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/43/35/16/43351665160cc99dd86ed7bd2f557a67.jpg

http://economyclassandbeyond.boardingarea.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/MG_7123.jpg
You are here.
 
777X
Topic Author
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RE: 757/767 Scimitar Winglet

Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:45 pm

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 16):

I can't get over how amazing they would look on the 767! Can someone more talented than me come up with a rendering of what it would look like?
 
VC10er
Posts: 4321
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RE: 757/767 Scimitar Winglet

Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:38 pm

They are strange looking, almost Batman-like. I have starred at them from my window on a 737, and I think they look cool. Especially that pointy Bat-tip on the top of the larger winglet. In a world where airliners are losing their distinction vs all the designs of the past, (e.g.; big tube, 2 big engines). I own a 2.5 foot long wind tunnel 707 model (solid aluminum) my gosh was she a beauty (which is why I paid $2500 bucks for it). I'm all for anything new to gaze at!
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