Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
fcogafa
Topic Author
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:37 pm

Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 6:32 am

An article in the Telegraph suggests a group has the money to buy the Concorde that is currently at Orly and display it in central London. They could also buy the one at LBG and return it to flying status:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/luxury/tr...roposed-for-display-in-london.html
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 6:45 am

They must have incredibly deep pockets.
 
flyDTW1992
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:04 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 6:54 am

Quoting Planesmart (Reply 1):
They must have incredibly deep pockets.

Article says they claim to have access to 120 million GBP. I'm skeptical, although I must say, if I were rich, this would be high on my list of philanthropic endeavors.
Now you're flying smart
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 4972
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:14 am

All the money in the world doesnt make up for the fact that they dont have support from the airframe OEM or the engine OEM.

Are there any airworthy Olympus 593s in storage these days, or are they suggesting they refurbish at least four engines to flightworthiness condition? What about ongoing operational considerations? Cos they cant order new ones...

This is just another stunt imho, wont come to anything.
 
flyDTW1992
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:04 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:22 am

Quoting moo (Reply 3):
All the money in the world doesnt make up for the fact that they dont have support from the airframe OEM or the engine OEM.

Are there any airworthy Olympus 593s in storage these days, or are they suggesting they refurbish at least four engines to flightworthiness condition? What about ongoing operational considerations? Cos they cant order new ones...

I don't necessarily disagree with your overall assessment, however...

There are plenty of vintage aircraft, warbirds, etc. out there that have been restored to airworthiness without OEM support. Granted, nothing on the scale of a Concorde and its powerplants.

Additionally, if they do have the kind of funding they claim to, it would make things much easier in terms of machining their own parts, paying for professional talent, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some retired RR, Airbus, BA, and AF engineers and technicians out there that would be ready and willing to support this cause.
Now you're flying smart
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6165
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:28 am

They'd need that reserve. Wouldn't it basically have to reacquire the airworthiness certificate, which would cost a fortune?

IIRC the last time this came up, one of the people who worked on Concorde made it clear, that the best case scenario would be a restoration of one of the airframes to a condition where it could be taxied under its own power. Anything beyond that would be a pipe dream.

[Edited 2015-09-18 00:34:33]
 
flyDTW1992
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:04 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:43 am

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 5):
IIRC the last time this came up, one of the people who worked on Concorde made it clear, that the best case scenario would be a restoration of one of the airframes to a condition where it could be taxied under its own power. Anything beyond that would be a pipe dream.

Which would be utterly pointless. If it's not gonna fly, it's better off in museum status.
Now you're flying smart
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13278
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:08 am

Quoting moo (Reply 3):
All the money in the world doesnt make up for the fact that they dont have support from the airframe OEM or the engine OEM.

  




Quoting flyDTW1992 (Reply 4):
There are plenty of vintage aircraft, warbirds, etc. out there that have been restored to airworthiness without OEM support.

And none of them were of a fraction of the complication as Concorde, and yes, I'd include the Vulcan among them.

Heck, some of those "vintage aircraft, warbirds, etc" could be maintained by a single skilled technician equipped with proper tools.

Concorde's maintenance regime was so complex/precise that the USA's NASA came crawling to BACE to be schooled on techniques for what the to do with the aging Space Shuttle fleet!

There's really no comparison. And let's not forget, that the primary reason BA chose not to keep G-BOAF in airworthy condition for airshow/heritage displays, is because they found that the cost to keep even one ship serviceable (for solely subsonic operations) wasn't all that much lower than the cost to keep them all-- which could never be justified to the shareholders.

**********************
....will believe this about a day AFTER it happens.  
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 4972
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:16 am

Quoting flyDTW1992 (Reply 4):
There are plenty of vintage aircraft, warbirds, etc. out there that have been restored to airworthiness without OEM support. Granted, nothing on the scale of a Concorde and its powerplants.

As you say, nothing on the scale of Concorde - the example of XH558 given in the article is a ridiculous one.

Lets go through what the people who bought and restored XH558 started out with:

- an airframe that had literally just been retired and flown to the restoration airfield
- an extensive and unbroken maintenance history
- constant preventative maintenance being doing on the airframe right up to the point at which it was handed over
- an extensive spare parts catalogue handed over with the aircraft
- 8 airworthy engines in long term certified storage
- support from industry, including both the airframe OEM (BAE) and the engine OEM (Rolls Royce)
- support from the CAA

XH558 was taken as a flying aircraft and put into long term restoration as a flying aircraft - when the engines were turned off on its delivery in 1993 to Bruntingthorpe, it was then maintained to a high level as a ground running attraction. When the decision was made in 1997 to return the aircraft to the air, it was a functioning aircraft.

Lets go through what you have with Concorde:

- one questionably maintained aircraft that hasn't done any engine runs in a decade, let alone moved under its own power
- all other airframes being "permanently stored" with all fluids drained and preventative maintenance being restricted to what it was required to keep an airframe safe for the public to approach
- no spares catalogue as it was sold off by both BA and AF
- no support from either the engine OEM or the airframe OEM
- no support from the CAA

I have absolutely no faith that any Concorde will be restored to airworthiness in my life time - let alone be able to gain authority approval to carry passengers!

Its a pipe dream, nothing more.
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 4972
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:19 am

Quoting flyDTW1992 (Reply 6):
Which would be utterly pointless. If it's not gonna fly, it's better off in museum status.

While I don't disagree that Concorde won't fly, try telling the operators of Just Jane that their aircraft is better off in a museum rather than being taxied...

Especially as they gather a large crowd with each taxi run.

Also, the operators of Bruntingthorpe run regular high speed taxi runs of their aircraft at events - they even had a Victor take to the skies unexpectedly a few years back  
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19126
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:27 am

Quoting moo (Reply 8):
Lets go through what the people who bought and restored XH558 started out with:

And let's not forget that, as much as I and countless others have loved watching XH558 flying the last few years, it will stop flying very soon and will NEVER fly again.

I'd also suggest the Hunter crash has certainly not helped in increasing the support for keeping vintage aircraft flying.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
visualapproach
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:09 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:32 am

I'd rather see them spend that money on maintaining the Concorde aircraft in already in preservation.. the one at FZO has been closed to the public for years and on an airfield that closed recently too. The thing is just rotting away in the elements.. that is the real travesty.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4819
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:34 am

Same goes for G-BOAB rotting at Heathrow. If we're going to spend money let's get it under cover first.
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 9645
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:26 am

Better keep the Vulcan flying...
 
icna05e
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:11 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:27 am

Quoting visualapproach (Reply 11):
maintaining the Concorde aircraft in already in preservation.. the one at FZO has been closed to the public for years and on an airfield that closed recently too.
Quoting skipness1e (Reply 12):
G-BOAB rotting at Heathrow

Totally agree with you two. There's so much that could be done with a fraction of 120m£ to keep the fleet as is and not let it rot away! I totally support the initial project of moving the ORY one up North on the Thames (even though it would mean one fewer Concorde in France, it would be better for her !-)

Clubconcorde website explains why they aren't pursuing G-BOAF at Filton or AB at Heathrow. It appears that British Airways is reluctant to have theirs displayed in Center London. Seriously? How can an airline not be proud of having flown the only commercial supersonic aircraft?
Every single MSN left deserves to be safely and proudly displayed. Most are. F-WTSA near ORY got "decorated" by graffers a couple years ago. There are associations trying to restore her, but money and will seems to be lacking.
 
shuttle9juliet
Posts: 355
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:12 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:43 am

Quoting skipness1e (Reply 12):

It is absolutely disgusting that they have sat and let it rot.
I was over in the FSU last year and managed to get close up to it.
Appalled that they could let something so close to the hearts of so many people sit and rot outside.
Inside, it is just a gutted shell with highlife magazines being used as ballast.

I am over there next few weeks again so I'll try get some photos.
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3542
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:47 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 10):
Quoting moo (Reply 8):
Lets go through what the people who bought and restored XH558 started out with:

And let's not forget that, as much as I and countless others have loved watching XH558 flying the last few years, it will stop flying very soon and will NEVER fly again.

Exactly, when it becomes impossible to maintain a large non computerised aircraft with four non afterburning engines in an airworthy condition, the chances of doing so with one controlled by 1960's computers with afterburners on the engines is going to be a non starter.

In regard to the comment about not needing the approval of the OEM, how can you make the safety case if you don't have access to the OEM's calculations ?
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 4972
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:54 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 16):
In regard to the comment about not needing the approval of the OEM, how can you make the safety case if you don't have access to the OEM's calculations ?

Having OEM support is pretty much the only thing the CAA will consider in cases where aircraft are this complex - if you don't have OEM support, it isn't going to fly.
 
Curiousflyer
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:19 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:25 am

This is just not going to happen. It is not so much a matter of money than finding all the missing parts and making sure the frame can still handle Mach 2.

If some frames are left to rot it is a shame and if someone has money to take care of them in a museum they should be given to them.
 
User avatar
anfromme
Posts: 883
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:58 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:28 am

Here's the quarterly "Concorde might fly again" thread. I suspect we'll still get these in one form or another 10 years from now or more.

I have nothing much to add that moo, LAX772LR, Bongodog1964 and others haven't said before, to be honest, and their arguments as well as tons of other have been presented in numerous previous threads.

As others have said before - if they have £120m, I'd prefer them to spend that money on simply preserving the existing fleet in great condition for public display, rather than wasting even a fraction of it on a pipe dream.
42
 
IDAWA
Posts: 281
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:07 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:37 am

If they built a ski resort in the desert, they can bring Concorde back to the air as well, it just depends how much they are willing to spend in the project. I don't see any material returns on this investment, which does not help it to happen
Flown on: 319, 320, 321, 340, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, DC9, D10, M11, M80, 146, EM2, BEH, CRJ, DH8, L4T.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 24414
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:45 am

Quoting skipness1e (Reply 12):

Cant believe they have not done more with that. They should have done something like they did in BGI.
 
jeffh747
Posts: 862
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:32 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:14 pm

Concorde COULD fly again. Keyword could. I could win a million dollars and find the cure for cancer in one day, but that certainly isn't very likely at all, just like this pipe dream unfortunately.
ATR-72-600, A318 A319 A320 A320neo A321 A321neo A332 A333 B717 B727 B734 B73G B738 B739 B752 B762 B763 B772 B788 CRJ2 DHC6 DHC8-300 E145 E190 MD82 MD83 MD90 SF340B
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19126
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:21 pm

Quoting IDAWA (Reply 20):
If they built a ski resort in the desert, they can bring Concorde back to the air as well, it just depends how much they are willing to spend in the project.

Sorry, but that's not correct, it's not all about money.   

Vulcan is stopping flying this autumn. It's not because of a lack of finance, it's because of withdrawal of support from the three technical authorities. Without that support, the CAA will not grant a flying or display licence.

http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/6...nouncement-on-the-2015-season.html

Quote:
We are sure you are asking why this has to be the end of this phase of XH558’s life, particularly as many of you will be aware that we have been trying hard to find a way to extend her life for at least one more season beyond the additional two years (2014-15) that were promised when we completed the wing modification. The answer is that having evaluated a great many factors, the three expert companies on whom we depend – known as the ‘technical authorities’ - have together decided to cease their support at the end of this flying season. Without that support, under Civil Aviation Authority regulations, we are prohibited from flying.

At the heart of their decision are two factors. First, although we are all confident that XH558 is currently as safe as any aircraft flying today, her structure and systems are already more than ten percent beyond the flying hours of any other Vulcan, so knowing where to look for any possible failure is becoming more difficult. These can be thought of as the ‘unknown unknown’ issues, which can be impossible to predict with any accuracy. Second, maintaining her superb safety record requires expertise that is increasingly difficult to find.

Our technical partners already bring specialists out of retirement specifically to work on XH558; a solution that is increasingly impractical for those businesses as the necessary skills become distant in their collective memories. We have recently been made aware that the skills issue is particularly acute as our engines age and will require a considerable amount of additional (and costly) inspection and assessment.

Vulcan's last flypast at RIAT in July.   

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Steve Brimley
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Steve Brimley



I fully appreciate this thread is about Concorde, but I don't see a significant difference between it and Vulcan. Without the support of the relevant authorities, Concorde will never fly again - even if Bill Gates stumped up $1billion.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
diverted
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 3:17 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:23 pm

^exactly.

Queen Mary could sail again too. All it would need is new props, an engine room, engines, and more! Obviously Concorde could fly again. Keep in mind they built this airplane in the 1960s. If they could make a clean sheet supersonic aircraft 50 years ago, then in this day and age we COULD make her fly again. We'd need access to a ton of technical documents, spares that no longer exist so would have to be manufactured. The fact that she hasn't flown in over 10 years means the level of brain drain is an obstacle. And the costs would be massive.

Look at the space shuttles. While technically the frames are mostly complete aside from engines, there's a 0% chance they'll ever go so far as to have electrical power again. Same sort of thing with Concorde. The investment would be massive, hugely time consuming, and more.

For example, look how long Doc the B-29 has been in restoration. And that's a frame with another flying example, as well as some spare parts still kicking around. And that is a piston powered prop aircraft, not a supersonic pax jet.
 
G-CIVP
Posts: 1561
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 6:38 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:37 pm

Quoting flyDTW1992 (Reply 4):
There are plenty of vintage aircraft, warbirds, etc. out there that have been restored to airworthiness without OEM support. Granted, nothing on the scale of a Concorde and its powerplant.

But after the Shoreham crash, Insurers are reluctant to provide cover for vintage aircraft.

I doubt Concorde will fly again and here are the reasons.

* the airframe will have detiorated in the past 12 years, especially the electrical systems
* there is and will be a lack of spares
* the licenced aircraft engineers with the prerequisite experience may have retired or be gainful employed elsewhere
* the regulator, CAA in the UK, are unlikely to provide an airworthiness certificate

So it's a non-starter. You might as well archive this thread now.
 
User avatar
fbgdavidson
Posts: 3890
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:25 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:57 pm

http://img04.deviantart.net/c3c8/i/2010/117/f/d/beating_a_dead_horse_by_pjperez.jpg
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Posts: 7434
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:59 pm

Quoting fbgdavidson (Reply 26):

Just about sums it up.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
User avatar
anfromme
Posts: 883
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:58 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:14 pm

Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 25):
* the regulator, CAA in the UK, are unlikely to provide an airworthiness certificate

They're not unlikely to issue one. They 100% won't.
scbriml quoted the Vulcan to the Sky group's exact explanation of why they won't:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 23):
the three expert companies on whom we depend – known as the ‘technical authorities’ - have together decided to cease their support at the end of this flying season. Without that support, under Civil Aviation Authority regulations, we are prohibited from flying.

No support from the technical authorities (in the case of Concorde chiefly RR and Airbus) -> no CAA airworthiness certificate.
Airbus have been quite clear that they would not support any Concorde operations past October 2003. So that's that.

[Edited 2015-09-18 06:20:23]
42
 
DAL763ER
Posts: 531
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:20 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:40 pm

I wish we stopped hanging on to the past. Instead of throwing a few million on making Concorde fly, I'd rather someone spent money making something better from all points of view.
 
Mortyman
Posts: 5860
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:49 pm

It would be more likely that Airbus built a whole new "Concorde" with improved fuel efficiancy and better passenger space...
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:55 pm

If Sheldon Adelson or Mark Zuckerberg want Concorde to fly, it can fly. It just takes money. Now, I agree it cannot return to airline operations. But that is a wholly different question.
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 4972
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:04 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 31):
It just takes money.

Not in the UK it isn't - thats the reason we don't have any flightworthy Buccaneers, Lightnings or Phantoms over here, despite them being a big part of RAF heritage.

If the CAA doesn't like your plan or your support, you aren't flying in the UK.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5961
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:07 pm

I like how everyone was upset when the Intrepid Museum received a Concorde several years ago because it would be left outside.

Meanwhile, that aircraft is in pristine condition in and out.

And you guys in Europe have Concordes that are gutted and rotting.

Oh, the irony.
 
AirBoat
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:58 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:09 pm

The Concorde at Manchester airport is in a hangar and in good condition.
 
AV8AJET
Posts: 1180
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:10 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:18 pm

Maybe Donald Trump could restore the one in NYC and make it his "Hair Force One!" Lol
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3383
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:31 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 23):
Vulcan is stopping flying this autumn. It's not because of a lack of finance, it's because of withdrawal of support from the three technical authorities. Without that support, the CAA will not grant a flying or display licence.

That's fine, bring it to the United States, where it could by flown as experimental exhibition category, no problem.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
User avatar
Clipper101
Posts: 697
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:44 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:32 pm

Somehow it comes to my mind that one of those reason that grounded the Concord is being BAE stopped to give support (besides the hifty price tag of mandatory modifications post 9/11 which made it uneconomical), suppose someone has the well in investing in this aeroplane to make it fly again, but then who will give it the support it needs ?!
 
2175301
Posts: 1875
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 11:19 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:39 pm

Given enough money Airbus and other companies would be willing to support it. But, you will have to pay them to do so. The Vulcan could continue as well - if someone was willing to pay the technical authorities...

What the various companies will not do is to spend a lot of money providing support with no financial return. Some things are done for "goodwill"; but, there comes a point where the money spent providing support exceeds the "goodwill" value.

So, if someone tosses Airbus $10+ Million a year to provide technical support for the Concord I am sure they will be more than willing to do so. So, if someone can toss enough money at the manufactures it would happen. I would also expect that the manufactures would be looking for at least a decade contract, as that is the minimum time to return the aircraft to service and allow it to fly for a few years.

I do not see that occurring; but, I could be wrong. People with spare megamillions have been known to spend it on things that interest them.


Have a great day,
 
Birdwatching
Posts: 3711
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:48 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:41 pm

You are all wrong. All 35 replies above. Because your thinking is confined to the legal systems of the UK, USA, Europe. No out-of-the-box thinking anywhere.

The laws of physics are the same across borders.

If it can taxi under its own power, it can fly too. It's just a matter of pulling up the stick at the right time.

Would it be allowed/legal in the UK? No.
But it would physically work. Maybe it would need some more maintenance and fixing, but if that French Concorde that does engine power-ups from time to time can taxi around fine, then it can fly if it was allowed.

Now £120.000.000 could buy you all kinds of airworthiness certificates in "certain" countries. All the people who say "Concorde will never fly again" should have to add: "in most countries".

Soren   
All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19126
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:43 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 31):
It just takes money.
Quoting 2175301 (Reply 38):
Given enough money Airbus and other companies would be willing to support it. But, you will have to pay them to do so. The Vulcan could continue as well - if someone was willing to pay the technical authorities...

No, it needs more than just money.   
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
User avatar
Clipper101
Posts: 697
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:44 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:55 pm

Lack of spare parts & component support also come to mind as a main reason why the Concord will stay grounded
 
lowbank
Posts: 511
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:10 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:03 pm

i worked on several olympus parts in my time and they were all a complete swine to manufacture. welding dissimilar materials was the worst idea i have seen, it was a nightmare.
Every days a school day.
 
neutronstar73
Posts: 796
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:57 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:19 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 3):
All the money in the world doesnt make up for the fact that they dont have support from the airframe OEM or the engine OEM.

Exactly. They better have a steady stream of money coming in truckloads to keep that bird flying for more than 1 or 2 flights. This has publicity stunt written all over it.

No parts, no support = no flying airplane. This isn't like a classic car.....there is no "Concorde Owners Club" to trade parts and maintenance ideas.

[Edited 2015-09-18 10:20:19]
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:36 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 43):
This isn't like a classic car.....

Just for context, there are guys who will pay $25 million for the right Ferrari. There are guys who have $300 million worth of cars. There are a lot of rich guys out there.

Aviation expertise and experimental parts fabrication are things that can be bought. I doubt Airbus would ever support it because of grave brand image risk. But if politicians AND rich patrons want something to happen, it can.

The Tu-144 flew again. Simple example but relevant. I think most would agree the Tu-144 can definitely fly again, just needs money.

[Edited 2015-09-18 10:42:40]
 
goosebayguy
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:12 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:54 pm

There are several ex BA Concorde engineers who meet at Brooklands to service their Concorde. So the expertise is still available. It needs to have the right people who can convince BAe, Airbus and RR to support them. Then once those ducks are in place EASA just need pursuading.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13278
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:55 pm

Quoting Curiousflyer (Reply 18):
It is not so much a matter of money than finding all the missing parts and making sure the frame can still handle Mach 2.

No way they'd fly it Mach2, even if it ever did take to the air again. BA wasn't going to maintain supersonic capability even when it was considering keeping one airworthy for shows.

Quoting moo (Reply 32):
Not in the UK it isn't
Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 39):
All the people who say "Concorde will never fly again" should have to add: "in most countries".

Bah. Any government can be bought, for the right price.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
bhill
Posts: 1837
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:28 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 6:04 pm

No way in hell are the BAe, et al, lawyers gonna let this be supported in any way shape or form....10 foot poles come to mind...
Carpe Pices
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4819
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 6:14 pm

The TU144 flew with OEM support I think?
The Vulcan was always time limited due to flying and engine hours before the next major and the professionals at Vulcan to The Sky wrote off two Olympus engines in one day because of FOD.
The test case would be the VC10s flown from Abingdon to Filton after years in outdoor storage. Gutted aeroplane with flaps screwed down and locked with chase planes. That had OEM and taxpayer funded RAF /BAe backing. This fantasy never will. There's no return in playing the semantics of "could it fly" as the answer is technically yes. However the utterly prohibitive costs involved in returning one airframe to safe regular flight are huge, even if the OEM got involved. It might end up being cheaper to hand build a whole new Concorde.....

When figures and analytical mindsets are crucial for safe flying at public events, how can we take seriously people so obviously lacking in those basics?
 
jmc757
Posts: 1241
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 3:36 am

RE: Concorde 'could Fly Again'...

Fri Sep 18, 2015 6:17 pm

The idea of one flying is nonsense, for all of the good reasons discussed in previous posts.

The idea of raising funds and somehow displaying one in London is great. I don't understand why they would be looking at a French bird though. We have 2 right here in the UK that are very much at risk. The one at Filton and the one at Heathrow. Why not one of these for London? I wonder if they've approached BA who have said no? (I think I'm right in saying all the ex-BA birds are still BA assets?)

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos