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JBAirwaysFan
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AA/US And The DH8s

Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:39 pm

After flying this week and seeing US Airways counters rebranding as American I began to wonder about any possible fleet adjustments once the merger is closed and the SOC takes effect.

AA has no turboprop aircraft in its regional fleet. Add in US Airways and we have DH8s. Has there been any word as to whether or not AA plans to keep them or retire them in favor for an all jet fleet? If so, are there certain cities (US cities) that are at risk for losing airline service? Hilton Head comes to mind with this.
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boberito6589
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:49 pm

Well, since all 11 Dash 8-300 and several Dash 8-100s are already painted in the new American Eagle paint job, Id say they are going to be around for a while. Especially when you think about how the Super 80 will be here until the end of 2917 and yet none of those are goiing to get the new livery.
 
flyDTW1992
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:21 pm

Quoting boberito6589 (Reply 1):
Well, since all 11 Dash 8-300 and several Dash 8-100s are already painted in the new American Eagle paint job, Id say they are going to be around for a while.

Keep in mind Delta painted Mesaba Saab 340s in their colors during the NW merger and then very quickly retired them. Painting planes doesn't always mean much.
Now you're flying smart
 
G500
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:40 pm

USairways has turned the Dash 8 into the next DC3. Those things need to go
 
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JBo
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:50 pm

Quoting boberito6589 (Reply 1):
Especially when you think about how the Super 80 will be here until the end of 2917

Douglas aircraft really ARE built to last....   
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CcrlR
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:25 pm

Quoting boberito6589 (Reply 1):
Well, since all 11 Dash 8-300 and several Dash 8-100s are already painted in the new American Eagle paint job, Id say they are going to be around for a while. Especially when you think about how the Super 80 will be here until the end of 2917 and yet none of those are goiing to get the new livery.

They will still be around with the introduction of the EMB-145(20 Total) from the Envoy Transfer. Who knows when AA will get rid of them but if they are necessary for airports that have short runways, then they will keep them.

Quoting boberito6589 (Reply 1):
Especially when you think about how the Super 80 will be here until the end of 2917 and yet none of those are goiing to get the new livery.

Did you ever watch Futurama??? Planes will be obsolete by that time and spaceships will be the travel method with Dark Matter as a fuel source!      
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us330
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:29 pm

Quoting G500 (Reply 3):
USairways has turned the Dash 8 into the next DC3. Those things need to go

So they are well-built, durable, reliable, and will keep flying in commercial service for 60 or so years?

Quoting CcrlR (Reply 5):
Who knows when AA will get rid of them but if they are necessary for airports that have short runways, then they will keep them

I'm not in fleet planning, but with low oil prices, the cost advantage of operating a prop versus a regional jet decreases considerably. Given that oil prices are cyclical, however, doesn't it make sense to keep a fleet of props around to maintain consistent service on routes that may be unprofitable with regional jets once oil goes back up?
 
N353SK
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:53 pm

Quoting us330 (Reply 6):
I'm not in fleet planning, but with low oil prices, the cost advantage of operating a prop versus a regional jet decreases considerably. Given that oil prices are cyclical, however, doesn't it make sense to keep a fleet of props around to maintain consistent service on routes that may be unprofitable with regional jets once oil goes back up?

The only issue is that some of the Dash 8s are timing out. The -100s were originally certified for 80,000 cycles and can be extended to 120,000 cycles, but they have finite lifespans and they generally fly very short legs.
 
N1120A
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:59 pm

I'd really like to see AA beef up it's prop fleet.

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Thread starter):
AA has no turboprop aircraft in its regional fleet.

Which has hamstrung them.
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ERJ170
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:09 pm

AA needs to order new prop fleet.. Dash 8-400 is a possibility but I think AA might do better ordering ATRs.. Both the 42 seat and 72 seat... They would probably see better profits on some of their smaller airport instead of the jet fleet.. And it may allow for expansion
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Boeing778X
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:11 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
I'd really like to see AA beef up it's prop fleet.

That said, I look forwards to flying on a Saab 2000 on AA 

Oh, I wish!
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:23 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):

I'd really like to see AA beef up it's prop fleet.
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 9):
AA needs to order new prop fleet.. Dash 8-400 is a possibility but I think AA might do better ordering ATRs.. Both the 42 seat and 72 seat... They would probably see better profits on some of their smaller airport instead of the jet fleet.. And it may allow for expansion

Do you mean just AA, or all of the major carriers? None of the big three have indicated much interest at all in adding more turboprops to their fleets, even when oil was over $100 a barrel. DL has been completely rid of them for several years now. UA is retiring their Q400 fleet next year. AA doesn't seem to have a Dash replacement in its future.
 
N1120A
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:40 pm

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 11):
Do you mean just AA, or all of the major carriers?

All, though especially AA.

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 11):
None of the big three have indicated much interest at all in adding more turboprops to their fleets, even when oil was over $100 a barrel. DL has been completely rid of them for several years now. UA is retiring their Q400 fleet next year. AA doesn't seem to have a Dash replacement in its future.

Actually, UA/CO in particular, showed great interest in Q400s during peak oil. The problem now is that there is a huge pilot shortage at the regionals. Until the US3 decide to in-source more flying, there won't be anyone willing to fly those props.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
kevintarmac
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:51 pm

Just out of curiosity, would AA be able to fly the Q400 in all Y configuration like QX with 76? Or would the pilot contract require them to have F/Y ala E175s?
 
32andBelow
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Sat Sep 19, 2015 6:08 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 10):
That said, I look forwards to flying on a Saab 2000 on AA 

Oh, I wish!

You'll be able to fly it on their Codeshare partners ticket stock next year! Operated by KS.
 
OB1504
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:58 am

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Thread starter):
After flying this week and seeing US Airways counters rebranding as American I began to wonder about any possible fleet adjustments once the merger is closed and the SOC takes effect.

I'm nitpicking, but SOC took place on April 8 and would not have impacted the DH8 fleet because they are operated by Piedmont.

The integration on October 17 will be passenger service.
 
alasizon
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:06 am

Quoting kevintarmac (Reply 13):

I don't know the exact scope language but I believe they could run in 76Y config but I suspect that there is some policy internally that would require them to have F. I think it would be a 9F/64Y config which in my opinion is a great setup, especially when you can board through both doors. I'd personally love it in PHX for turns to FLG, YUM, PSP, etc where itd be easy to do a 20 minute turn on it.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
flyDTW1992
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:34 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 9):

AA needs to order new prop fleet.. Dash 8-400 is a possibility but I think AA might do better ordering ATRs.. Both the 42 seat and 72 seat... They would probably see better profits on some of their smaller airport instead of the jet fleet.. And it may allow for expansion

After the 1994 ATR crash I don't think an AA subsidiary will ever operate another ATR. That crash and its aftermath were a nightmare.

They removed it from service at hubs prone to icing conditions back then, I don't think they'd do well to bring them back now. PHL and ORD would be out of the question.

I don't see any new turboprops in the US in the near term. Despite the economics, they're really a tough sell at this point.
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superjeff
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:34 am

Quoting Alasizon (Reply 16):
I don't know the exact scope language but I believe they could run in 76Y config but I suspect that there is some policy internally that would require them to have F. I think it would be a 9F/64Y config which in my opinion is a great setup, especially when you can board through both doors. I'd personally love it in PHX for turns to FLG, YUM, PSP, etc where itd be easy to do a 20 minute turn on it.

Agreed. United's Q-400's have a two class configuration, which allows the airline to sell First Class for the whole passenger experience from origin to destination. A much more pleasant experience than any CRJ or ERJ in either class, as well, IMHO.

The Piedmont airplanes are very old and somewhat shabby at this point in time, but they still are sturdy airplanes. I don't mind flying them at all (in my case, usually PHL-ISP-PHL or PHL-HPN-PHL).
 
us330
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:58 pm

Quoting flyDTW1992 (Reply 17):
After the 1994 ATR crash I don't think an AA subsidiary will ever operate another ATR. That crash and its aftermath were a nightmare.

Isn't that what people were saying about Airbus and AA after AA587? When the economics work for both parties, grievances can be buried.
 
silentbob
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:34 am

Quoting CcrlR (Reply 5):
They will still be around with the introduction of the EMB-145(20 Total) from the Envoy Transfer. Who knows when AA will get rid of them but if they are necessary for airports that have short runways, then they will keep them.

HHH is the only one that will have to be dropped without DH8 in the fleet. Even DH3 or ATRs are seriously weight restricted into there. There are a handful of other airports that would be weight restricted with 145s but none that would have to be dropped if the DH8 is retired.

Quoting N353SK (Reply 7):
The only issue is that some of the Dash 8s are timing out. The -100s were originally certified for 80,000 cycles and can be extended to 120,000 cycles, but they have finite lifespans and they generally fly very short legs.

I thought the original certification was for 40,000 cycles and it was extended to 80,000. I know the extension to 120,000 cycles has been approved in other countries, but I wasn't sure that the FAA had signed off on it yet.

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 11):
AA doesn't seem to have a Dash replacement in its future.

AA management has said that there is a revenue disadvantage to operating a prop. Because of that, they really don't want them around over the long term.
 
INFINITI329
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:57 am

Quoting silentbob (Reply 20):

AA management has said that there is a revenue disadvantage to operating a prop. Because of that, they really don't want them around over the long term

I cant fathom how there is revenue disadvantage between a 76 seat jet vs a 76 turboprop
 
Flighty
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:38 am

There are. People don't really like props except geeks. Plus, props do about 1 fewer legs a day than an RJ. So, fewer legs less revenue. And a lengthier journey allows fewer connects and is just generally a bit less often to be the travelers best choice. I still like the dashes though. I was in PHL in July and took a good look. Terminal F looked nice.

All the US 1990s-early 2000s destination posters were still up in term B. Soon to come down.  sigh 

[Edited 2015-09-20 19:41:29]
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:47 am

I can think of several airports which are exclusively DH8s or have a large percentage of the service: HHH, LYH, ROA, HTS, FLO, etc.

Some of these could go to a CR2 (and less likely a E-145 given the runway distances and take off lengths).

Others would really need to soldier on with some type of turboprop.
 
highliner2
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:05 am

Or option C, those airports lose their service. For some airports that's far and away the most likely outcome long term.
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DashTrash
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:49 am

Quoting N353SK (Reply 7):
The only issue is that some of the Dash 8s are timing out. The -100s were originally certified for 80,000 cycles and can be extended to 120,000 cycles, but they have finite lifespans and they generally fly very short legs.

Originally certified to 40,000 cycles with the intention to extend it to 60,000, then was extended again to 80,000. Not sure about the 120,000 cycles, but I don't think most of Piedmont's fleet would make it that far. I believe five were/are being chopped up at SBY and 914 was damaged when a main collapsed, so even if 120,000 cycles were to be approved, those five frames are done.
 
32andBelow
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RE: AA/US And The DH8s

Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:03 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 22):
Plus, props do about 1 fewer legs a day than an RJ.

Flight time on a route of under 90 minutes between a prop and a jet is negligible. See QX ANCFAI vs 737.

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