Italianflyer
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ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:22 pm

The Tribune posted that UA has concluded that the moving sidewalks on C tend to hinder,not help, people flows. Yaay... more zipping golf carts         

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...ound-met-0921-20150920-column.html
 
codc10
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:34 pm

Should read as follows:

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Thread starter):

The Tribune posted that UA has concluded that the moving sidewalks on C tend to . . .

"occupy leaseable real estate in the terminal"
 
a380787
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:37 pm

Too bad they can't copy the DEN design - 4 moving walkways (2 each direction) for most of the gates, then all the retail/food concentrated in 3 areas - club west, club east, and center atrium
 
Rdh3e
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:39 pm

Quoting codc10 (Reply 1):
Too bad they can't copy the DEN design - 4 moving walkways (2 each direction) for most of the gates, then all the retail/food concentrated in 3 areas - club west, club east, and center atrium

ORD terminals are too narrow. The DEN terminal is nearly twice as wide.

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Thread starter):
The Tribune posted that UA has concluded that the moving sidewalks on C tend to hinder,not help, people flows. Yaay... more zipping golf carts

If you read the article, it makes a lot of business sense. It might save 20 seconds or so walking, but the costs imposed for those few seconds saved is not worth the benefit. The article seems pretty clear on that fact.
 
Alias1024
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:42 pm

C is rather narrow and I think the moving sidewalks actually do hinder traffic more than help. What that concourse really needs is to be about 12 feet wider. That would fix a lot of the problem, but that's not really a workable solution so ripping out the moving sidewalks seems like the best alternative.

The ends of that concourse are just dreadful. Too many gates, not enough seats, jammed up walkways to the seating areas. They're a total mess.

Can we bulldoze C and start over? How about Terminal 2? The jam packed L gates? Can we just bulldoze all of ORD and start over?

[Edited 2015-09-21 08:44:33]
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Italianflyer
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:49 pm

I read the article before starting a thread people.
This is not an attempt at another UA slam fest. I see the business case for their removal. I also see a functinal benefit to their presence.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 5):
I see the business case for their removal. I also see a functinal benefit to their presence.

Then lots of slamming head emoji's was an odd choice if you were not trying to say this is a dumb decision.
 
DualQual
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:54 pm

Moving walkways can be great, if people,actually walk on them. Far too many people get on them and stand like some type of bad amusement ride, or take a leisurely stroll while clogging up the width with bags, traveling partners, etc. DEN is fine as they have ample space but I say good riddance in ORD. EWR should follow suit.
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codc10
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:22 pm

Quoting DualQual (Reply 7):
EWR should follow suit.

Ask and you shall receive... most travelators at EWR have already been removed and replaced with additional dining/retail space. I suspect the same is coming to ORD... just remains to be seen whether it is OTG or another vendor.
 
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adamblang
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:26 pm

Thank god. The walkways are often broken. They're too narrow as well – if someone plops themselves in the middle of the walkway, I could've walked faster not on the walkway rather than standing behind them on it. On the flip side, if an aircraft is boarding or arriving, there're so many people clustered in the "fixed" walkways that you have to fight through. Having one open, free-flowing space will hopefully de-stress the area.
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usflyer msp
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:09 pm

Quoting DualQual (Reply 7):
Moving walkways can be great, if people,actually walk on them. Far too many people get on them and stand like some type of bad amusement ride, or take a leisurely stroll while clogging up the width with bags, traveling partners, etc. DEN is fine as they have ample space but I say good riddance in ORD. EWR should follow suit.

YASSS! I hate moving walkways (and escalators for that matter) for exactly this reason. I always get stuck behind some tubby or some family with 7 carry-on bags that block the entire thing so I can't get past them. I have gotten to the point where I generally refuse to use them.
 
ordpark
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:22 pm

They should have been pulled long ago....when it's really busy, they actually seem to slow traffic down and lot's of people just walk around them anyway.
 
AADC10
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:34 pm

The moving sidewalks at ORD C are rarely useful. They are short and get in the way when it is crowded. There used to be some at IAD between Concourse C & D but they were rather useless and were removed. ORD can result in very long connecting walks with no people mover except the bus from C to F.
 
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United787
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:54 pm

Great idea, they were useless for this concourse.

That said, if they are getting rid of them to create more square footage of retail space (as suggested), then terrible idea.

If they are getting rid of them to create more circulation and seating space, then great idea...
 
jetBlue
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:00 pm

What I really miss about ORD is those bouncy moving walkways they had underground to the CTA.

              

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MSPNWA
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:11 pm

Even if some of that space is used for retail, it's still probably a net positive. The moving walkways were nearly useless there. I'd rather have more room to walk and move around.
 
TW870
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:17 pm

This is excellent news. The worst thing about C is that there is not enough seating - especially for the widebody gates on the east side of the concourse. The moving sidewalks jam the passengers into the area around the podium, and it is difficult to pass if you are trying to continue down the concourse. This will also help open more space for dining and drinking. Wolfing McDonalds in a full gate area because there is nowhere else to sit is just gross. Opening up more seating space - and inviting better concessions - will make UA more competitive, especially against DL where MSP and DTW (although not most of ATL) are more attractive for eating and drinking while connecting. Good work ORD!
 
chicawgo
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:29 pm

I see the business sense here but let's remember a lot of people are connecting to/from E/F gates and that's a really long commute without any moving walkways other than the tunnel.

Quoting jetBlue (Reply 14):
What I really miss about ORD is those bouncy moving walkways they had underground to the CTA.

I believe there still is one tunnel in T2 that has those but I don't think they operate it.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:51 pm

Quoting chicawgo (Reply 17):

I see the business sense here but let's remember a lot of people are connecting to/from E/F gates and that's a really long commute without any moving walkways other than the tunnel.

That is why there is a bus. Although, part of the space created by removing the walkways should be used to create an elevator/escalator down to the bus boarding area in Concourse C. The existing stairs are not luggage nor elderly/disabled person friendly at all...
 
TonyBurr
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:59 pm

It is easy to say do away with them, but you may be young enough not to find even a small part of people movers a great relief for older people or people with some disabilities. Easy if you are 20 or 30 yo, adds some stress going from one end to another if you are older. Please, don't just go on what is doable for you, think of other people before you brush it off. You will be there some day.
 
copter808
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:06 pm

Quoting codc10 (Reply 1):
Should read as follows:

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Thread starter):

The Tribune posted that UA has concluded that the moving sidewalks on C tend to . . .

"occupy leaseable real estate in the terminal"

Maybe if they would keep them working, they might actually save time instead of just taking up valuable real estate! They might save most people 20 seconds, but make a BIG difference in the ability of older or disabled people getting to the gate!
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:11 pm

Quoting TonyBurr (Reply 19):
people movers are a great relief for older people or people with some disabilities

I heard from some UA employees a while ago that the number or people that actually get hurt falling off at the end of the moving sidewalks was a big issue. This was especially true in the B-C tunnel as people would stare up at the light sculpture but I'd imagine it's also true with the other ones as well.

C really is too narrow to sustain two moving sidewalks with the volume of pedestrian traffic it now handles. The mobile carts are also far too large for any place smaller than Disney World.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:14 pm

Quoting TonyBurr (Reply 19):

It is easy to say do away with them, but you may be young enough not to find even a small part of people movers a great relief for older people or people with some disabilities. Easy if you are 20 or 30 yo, adds some stress going from one end to another if you are older. Please, don't just go on what is doable for you, think of other people before you brush it off. You will be there some day.

That is why they have those loud, obnoxious carts going up and down the concourse (which will now have more room to maneuver as well). The moving walkways are superfluous...
 
chicawgo
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:59 pm

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 18):
That is why there is a bus. Although, part of the space created by removing the walkways should be used to create an elevator/escalator down to the bus boarding area in Concourse C. The existing stairs are not luggage nor elderly/disabled person friendly at all...

You basically refuted your own point. Let's be honest... the shuttle is impractical for a large number of people due to its location at the far south end of C and the very beginning of E/F. If you're at C30 you would now have to walk the entire length of C to get to the shuttle without moving sidewalks. Or how about someone at B21 connecting to C2 or C30. Shuttle is worthless.

Furthermore, the shuttle usually takes longer than if you just walked because it only runs every 10-15 minutes.

Completely agree with building an elevator for it. Seeing these families with 4 kids and 7 carry-ons schlepping up and down the stairs makes me mad.
 
ChicagoFlyer
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:38 pm

Quoting jetBlue (Reply 14):
What I really miss about ORD is those bouncy moving walkways they had underground to the CTA.

If I recall correctly (it was a brief visit this summer), the newly installed at MIA people mover walkways are of this design. Even back in 2000 at ORD, I thought they were a terrible idea (not for bouncy fun but for maintenance / availability I can't imagine rubber lasts as long as steel).

I nowadays fly a ton out of IAH. I do gear up for pedometer-happy exercise when United's plane arrives at something like E20 with a mostly walkway-less walk to the terminal C baggage claim (not just for bags, most shuttles are there as well). At IAH they have the electric cart service pretty well available or those mobility-challenged, but you are expected to tip the driver each time.
 
ckfred
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:51 pm

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 4):
Can we bulldoze C and start over? How about Terminal 2? The jam packed L gates? Can we just bulldoze all of ORD and start over?

If there was space to start over, ala ATL, I would agree with you. But, there is no way to tear down all of the terminals and lay them out like ATL and DEN. ATL had its original terminal complex on the north side of the field. So, they designed what was called the Midfield Terminal complex and moved all of the airlines out of the old terminal.

ORD simply has no space to build a new complex, especially since it has 2 hub carriers.

It seems to me that once the moving sidewalks are gone, there will be more room for passengers to walk.

Again, we have a situation of a terminal that was built in the 1980s and can't handle the volume all that well. It's also another structure designed by Helmut Jahn that, while looking very futuristic, doesn't necessarily work for its intended purpose.
 
caljn
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:24 pm

Quoting codc10 (Reply 8):

Quoting DualQual (Reply 7):
EWR should follow suit.

Ask and you shall receive... most travelators at EWR have already been removed and replaced with additional dining/retail space. I suspect the same is coming to ORD... just remains to be seen whether it is OTG or another vendor.

And it is a major fail at EWR., creating human traffic jams on the sides of the retail establishments.
Though hopefully they will use the extra revenue to power wash the place and maybe upgrade the lavatories. Right.
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Aesma
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:38 pm

There are lots of moving walkways under Paris, and some years ago it was decided to experiment with a high speed one in Montparnasse station. It had accelerating and decelerating zones, along with variable geometry handrails that adapted to the speed (of 12Km/h). I loved the experience, but unfortunately, and despite loud and visual warnings, too many people hurt themselves at either end, so they removed it.
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zrs70
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:43 pm

I applaud getting rid of them. Americans are getting fat and lazy. Most have rolling bags. A little walking before and after a flight is a good thing.

Then again, this is true:

Quoting TonyBurr (Reply 19):


[Edited 2015-09-21 14:46:07]
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IAHWorldflyer
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:52 pm

Good news! Was just there 2 weeks ago and commented how Terminal C is far too narrow for today's passenger volume. Those moving walkways take up space in the center, and when the lemmings line up 30 minutes ahead of boarding time in UA's groupings, they always seem to spill out into the concourse walkways, causing traffic jams of people trying to get by.
 
Alias1024
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:01 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 25):
ORD simply has no space to build a new complex, especially since it has 2 hub carriers.

I know, but it in no way changes my desire to demolish everything but the east/west runways and start over.

Please?
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jsnww81
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:42 pm

Quoting IAHWorldflyer (Reply 29):
Good news! Was just there 2 weeks ago and commented how Terminal C is far too narrow for today's passenger volume. Those moving walkways take up space in the center, and when the lemmings line up 30 minutes ahead of boarding time in UA's groupings, they always seem to spill out into the concourse walkways, causing traffic jams of people trying to get by.

The concourse wouldn't seem so narrow if they hadn't crammed retail kiosks into what was intended to be passenger circulation space. Concourses B and C at ORD used to be wide, spacious places. B has been ruined by the ever-intrusive security checkpoint jutting halfway into the concourse, and both piers are chock full of retail that cuts the walkable concourse space by half.

The moving walkways weren't perfect, but airports don't seem to realize that floor space - even if it's not generating money - is a necessary part of terminal design.
 
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green12324
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:40 am

Does the B side have moving walkways? I don't think it does. I walk through everyday to get to work but can't remember.

Moving walkways are great if there's enough space, but they pose a traffic problem if there's not enough room to walk around them.
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ADent
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:56 am

Quoting ckfred (Reply 25):

It seems to me that once the moving sidewalks are gone, there will be more room for passengers to walk.

Even though their removal "will free up space for other uses, possibly including new, more creative retail stores and upscale food-and-beverage concessions"?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:28 pm

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 31):
The moving walkways weren't perfect, but airports don't seem to realize that floor space - even if it's not generating money - is a necessary part of terminal design.

I think the problem is more so the width of the building. MDW (which has the same owner) has moving sidewalks, plenty of retail and lots of walking space, but it is 15 years newer. Other new terminals (JAX and DTW come to mind) also utilize moving sidewalks appropriately.
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SwissCanuck
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:20 pm

Quoting jetBlue (Reply 14):

What I really miss about ORD is those bouncy moving walkways they had underground to the CTA.

Take a trip to YYZ T3. Last time I checked (a while ago!) they still had the bouncy model. Those things are so fun, the rebound makes you feel like you're on a huge trampoline going 50km/h 
 
Rdh3e
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:21 pm

Quoting ADent (Reply 33):
Even though their removal "will free up space for other uses, possibly including new, more creative retail stores and upscale food-and-beverage concessions"?

Have you ever been to a mall? It's going to be the same. There will likely be some kiosks in the middle, but it will still be a net-gain in walking space throughout.
 
ORDTLV2414
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RE: ORD: Moving Sidewalks On C To Be Removed

Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:54 pm

This won't effect the underground walkways will it?

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