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TruemanQLD
Posts: 1346
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:14 am

Quoting travelhound (Reply 148):
It will be interesting to see how VA responds to this! If they don't respond, they could see passengers migrating to Jetstar and TigerAir.

Passengers they aren't really trying to target anyway. Though that being said, the idea was cool but I think most people probably don't see it as anything worth talking about

Quoting VapourTrails (Reply 147):
I don't really follow the football, but I had seen a post on A.net about the exorbitant fares that were offered to get to the Grand Final.

Why shouldn't the airlines charge high prices when people are paying it? People were commenting on social media "show some QLD pride" etc... they are corporations designed to look after their share holders and thats it. At the end of the day, the flights went out full and with people who paid the high prices, so people need to stop complaining. All the airlines did it and so they should have. Might have been a clever time for TR to pull a stunt and sell $50 seats on a PER-MEL service to impress people but I don't see the value in such a stunt for QF/VA
 
VapourTrails
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:34 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 150):
Why shouldn't the airlines charge high prices when people are paying it? People were commenting on social media "show some QLD pride" etc... they are corporations designed to look after their share holders and thats it. At the end of the day, the flights went out full and with people who paid the high prices, so people need to stop complaining.

I agree, they are a business and it is an opportunity to make money. When I saw it I just found it hard to fathom that there is no limit to what fare they could charge, and also, that people are willing to pay that much. Not being a football fan, I would only pay that much in an absolute emergency situation, and then, only if I actually had the money to spend. Football fans who didn't have the funds, obviously, well they just missed out / priced out of the market. The flypast added to the angst, as this would have been an empty flight I assume. They could have utilised that aircraft maybe. The demand was there.   

Social media is an easy platform to vent. Before social media I am not sure whether the people who were complaining would have written to, or called VA to express their feelings.
 
DeltaB717
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:54 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 150):
the idea was cool but I think most people probably don't see it as anything worth talking about

The trouble with the idea, cool as I agree it was, is that it HAS to be talked about, otherwise there's no point. There's no other way for anyone other than the dispatcher, the pilots, ATC and the PR team to even know that's the pattern the aircraft flew.

Quoting VapourTrails (Reply 151):
The flypast added to the angst, as this would have been an empty flight I assume.

Yeah, it was a MEL-MEL flight.

I agree though... if the demand is there and the capacity is limited (which it no doubt is to a certain extent because aircraft, crew, time, etc are finite resources), then an airline is a business and businesses price goods and services according to supply and demand. Would I spend $3k to fly PER-MEL-PER? No way! But others will, so more power (and cash, lol) to the airlines.
 
skyhawkmatthew
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:56 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 150):
Why shouldn't the airlines charge high prices when people are paying it? People were commenting on social media "show some QLD pride" etc... they are corporations designed to look after their share holders and thats it. At the end of the day, the flights went out full and with people who paid the high prices, so people need to stop complaining.
Quoting VapourTrails (Reply 151):
I just found it hard to fathom that there is no limit to what fare they could charge, and also, that people are willing to pay that much

   This exactly. Airline revenue management 101: charge the highest fares you can that still result in you selling all your available seats (or more if you choose to oversell!) by departure time. Simple as that!

Not to mention, according to Flightaware the aircraft involved (VH-XFH) had already operated two revenue flights that morning and was back on the ground at Tullamarine before the game even finished, so it wasn't like it was unavailable to transport fans visiting for the game anyway!
Qantas - The Spirit of Australia.
 
81819
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:21 am

Quoting VapourTrails (Reply 151):
Social media is an easy platform to vent. Before social media I am not sure whether the people who were complaining would have written to, or called VA to express their feelings.

Social media is almost instantaneous in relaying a message, so it has to be managed so it doesn't get out of hand!


Quoting skyhawkmatthew (Reply 153):
This exactly. Airline revenue management 101: charge the highest fares you can that still result in you selling all your available seats (or more if you choose to oversell!) by departure time. Simple as that!

Yes, but ...... marketing 101 - If you have a dissatisfied customer don't dissatisfy them any more by rubbing salt into the wound with poorly targeted marketing!

The whole scenario wasn't a good advertisement (business) for VA. Even if they made mega-dollars by selling very high priced tickets, a fair amount of trust in the Virgin brand has probably been lost.

[Edited 2015-10-05 23:31:24]
 
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zkokq
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:10 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 142):
Can anyone shed some light or are my calculations wrong?

Yup, thats spot on. The bird will sit on the ground for that long.
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:30 am

Quoting VapourTrails (Reply 147):
I don't really follow the football, but I had seen a post on A.net about the exorbitant fares that were offered to get to the Grand Final. Not sure who or how many were willing to pay and whether this is an annual trend myself. Was suprised to see this article today though. I think a flyover is a great thing, and the YouTube video was too - however, when I Googled the event, they did the same thing last year, only then it was reported that attendees and some security officials at the event were quite alarmed and felt threatened when the aircraft did a low flyover.

Back to this year's 'cup pattern flying' - social media tends to bring out negativity but at least VA got some good honest feedback I guess! Only thing is, the YouTube video they posted is from last year's match!

The fly by really looked impressive over the MCG, don't have a problem with that and being the major sponsor of the AFL, the problem I have, not only with VA but with QF and I suppose JQ and TT, is that on the one day and the aswell for the NRL grand final is that they suddenly raise their fares to increasable prices and they know that people will pay it because for some people going to a Grand Final whether AFL or NRL, for some is a once in a life time experience and the airlines know this so they take advantage of that and that's when people get pissed of with corporate greed and that's what it is. Its expensive at the best of times to travel within Australia and being such a vast country with great distances between the major capitals and the regional centres and when driving is impartible you have to fly and anyway you look at it we don't have much competition when it comes to domestic airlines. I find it ironic that when Richard Branson launched Virgin Blue back in 2000 he said that he wanted to break the duopoly of Qantas and the then Ansett , well now in 2015 VA own Tiger, swallowed up SkyWest, well they have done everything that Branson stood against and set up Virgin Blue to break down the duopoly. Well here they are charging like wounded bulls knowing that people will pay to see their teams play, and the toothless tiger that is the ACCC do absolutely nothing about it just like the oil company's that raise the price of petrol every long weekend they take advantage of the paying public and they don't care because to get to some where in this country we have to fly, or drive and to raise prices like they did for that one weekend knowing that people are traveling interstate to see their teams play was simply just not fare.
 
melpax
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:41 am

The DC10 fire tanker has been used in action for the first time today on a bushfire in the outer north of Melbourne. Both the DC10 & a Hercules tanker based at Richmond were used, they only took an hours or so to fly down to do their drop. Fires still going tonight, a way too early start to the fire season down here - the footy season only finished on Saturday!

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/vi...oss-the-state-20151006-gk2jog.html
 
SYDSpotter
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:51 am

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 156):
The fly by really looked impressive over the MCG, don't have a problem with that and being the major sponsor of the AFL, the problem I have, not only with VA but with QF and I suppose JQ and TT, is that on the one day and the aswell for the NRL grand final is that they suddenly raise their fares to increasable prices and they know that people will pay it because for some people going to a Grand Final whether AFL or NRL, for some is a once in a life time experience and the airlines know this so they take advantage of that and that's when people get pissed of with corporate greed and that's what it is.

At the end of the day, it's all about maximising profit, like it or not, that is the nature of our capitalist society. Whenever there is peak demand such as school holidays and holiday periods (Easter/Christmas), there is always more demand than supply, therefore simply economics dictate you charge people the maximum possible. The day you want to start regulating air fares, then we may as well revert to a communist/socialist society. We didn't complain when airfares were rock bottom and QF/VA were making millions of losses. Ultimately, the market decides the appropriate level of pricing.

In situations such as natural disasters or where people have been left stranded overseas, we've seen both QF/VA come in and chip in with help (often with little benefit to them). But in the case of the NRL/AFL finals, yes QF/VA are price gauging, but no one is being forced to fly (i.e. in the sense it's not life or death if you go to the Grand Final).
319_320_321_332_333_359_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W_788_789
 
TruemanQLD
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:53 am

Quoting zkokq (Reply 155):
Yup, thats spot on. The bird will sit on the ground for that long.

A 6:55am arrival and 5:40pm departure... time for an AKL rotation? Or what? Why keep the aircraft on the ground in BNE where they don't have a MX facility like they do in MEL?
 
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zkokq
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:42 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 159):

Good question, still trying to find that out.
 
aryonoco
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:21 am

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 156):
the problem I have, not only with VA but with QF and I suppose JQ and TT, is that on the one day and the aswell for the NRL grand final is that they suddenly raise their fares to increasable prices and they know that people will pay it

If I was a VA or QF shareholder, or a staff for that matter, I would be incredibly upset if either VA or QF sold tickets at anything less than absolute maximum price with which they can fill their planes.

It's a sports show, it's not a natural disaster or an emergency. Sure I understand the argument that if say there are floods in Cairns and people are trying to get out of there en mass, as an airline you shouldn't jack up the prices just because the demand is there, you should provide it as a "service to the community". But this is a football game. No one has a "right" to view the final at the MCG, or its equivalent in Sydney.

People could have flown a couple of days earlier and stayed somewhere cheap on Airbnb, or they could have driven if they really wanted to. And It's not like this was some great surprise. NRL and AFL finals happen every year in exactly the same place, and plane tickets always go up around them. I simply don't understand what you expect them to do.

Sure, price of tickets are generally high in Australia compared to say Europe or the US, and believe me, I wish there were 3 or 4 or 5 other independent airlines providing competition, pushing prices down and standards up. But it's a hugely capital intensive business with very uncertain returns, and the Australian market simply isn't big enough, so that isn't going to happen and we are stuck with the duopoly.

What do you want to happen? You want to go back to the old days of Government setting ticket prices and telling airlines what equipment to purchase? Or you want them to setup a national publicly owned airline so that they can provide subsidised fares for sports fans? As a taxpayer, I certainly wouldn't want that.
 
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zkojq
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:28 am

Qantas has been operating a lot of freight runs between BNE and SYD with 737s recently. I wonder what point it becomes worthwhile acquiring another 737 freighter.  
Quoting jetsetter1969 (Reply 27):
How many special colour schemes does qantas have in service at the moment?
Quoting CXfirst (Reply 28):
At the moment, they also have the Go Wallabies A380 (VH-OQH) and the Movember 737 (VH-VZO).
Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 30):
3 - Western Plains Zoo Dash 8, "Recognise" Dash 8 & Tasmania 717
Quoting qf789 (Reply 31):
There's also the 744 (VH-OEF) and A332 (VH-EBV) in the oneworld livery

Does the special sticker on the side of VH-VXB count?  
First to fly the 787-9
 
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allrite
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:24 pm

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 161):
It's a sports show, it's not a natural disaster or an emergency. Sure I understand the argument that if say there are floods in Cairns and people are trying to get out of there en mass, as an airline you shouldn't jack up the prices just because the demand is there, you should provide it as a "service to the community". But this is a football game. No one has a "right" to view the final at the MCG, or its equivalent in Sydney.

Considering the status of sport you could say it's a religious festival. The MCG is Australia's most sacred site.  

One of the problems is that the airlines are attempting to maximise aircraft utilisation and may not have a large amount of spare capacity around. Plus Melbourne and Sydney Airports themselves are capacity constrained at many times of day. And let's face it, more teams are local to the grand final city than not (though non-Victorian teams seem to feature a lot in the finals...). In the AFL ADL and SYD are both a day's drive from MEL, leaving only 4 teams (2 each in QLD and WA) troublesomely far. Likewise for the NRL, the Townsville based Cowboys are really the only ones more than a day's driving away.

Could foreign charters be permitted for odd situations like this year? Probably still too troublesome to organise.
I like artificial banana essence!
 
TN486
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:56 pm

For those complaining about high airfares to AFL Grand Final - take your consumer shoes off and put on your airline CEO's shoes or your shareholders shoes. Different slant on things yes? Would I pay the fares asked, no way. Why? cause I am not that well endowed with disposable cash. Also, at last glance, I was sure Tiger was part of the Virgin Group of airlines. Yes, I know, its late, and I get a bit cranky when I am tired. Ni nite all, sweet dreams.
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:02 pm

The airlines need to be able to make some money from these events though IMHO.

It's all about supply and demand, whilst being delivered in a sustainable way that can gain return on the investment in allocating resources at late notice.
 
QF175
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:00 pm

VIRGIN AUSTRALIA

- Virgin Australia expects to begin operating services from its new Perth terminal from the end of the year. VA will offer two new lounges, new check-in facilities and reduced transit times between international and domestic flights - Source - AusBT

- From the same article linked above VA expects to open a new Townsville Lounge in mid-2016, after redevelopment works at the airport commence (providing much needed additional space)


QANTAS

- Qantas has announced that is has needed to make changes to its Brisbane-Tokyo schedule with effect 26 October 2015. The revised schedule results in a slightly earlier departure from Brisbane (and an earlier arrival on the return):

Current:

BNE/NRT 1100/1915 QF61 333 D
NRT/BNE 2055/0700+1 QF62 333 D

With effect 26 October 2015:

BNE/NRT 0945/1800 QF61 333 D
NRT/BNE 1930/0530+1 QF62 333 D

Does anyone know the reasoning behind the schedule change, is it attributable to congestion at Narita?

Quote:
Schedule change between Tokyo (Narita) and Brisbane

We've had to make a change to our schedule between Tokyo (Narita) and Brisbane. If you have a booking to travel on QF61 or QF62 from 26 October 2015 to 25 March 2016 then please check for any changes to your trip at Manage Your Booking.
Source

- Qantas will operate an additional four return services from Sydney and Melbourne to Singapore in December 2015 and January 2016 per a Qantas industry sales release.


REGIONAL EXPRESS - REX

- Rex has announced that it will discontinue services between Newcastle and Ballina with effect 25 October 2015. The airline has blamed poor operating conditions throughout regional Australia. Rex will continue to offer dedicated services between Sydney and Newcastle and Sydney and Ballina - Source


MALINDO AIR

The airline has commenced the sale of fares on its recently announced Perth - Kuala Lumpur services. A roundtrip 'Economy Promo' fare is priced at $406.20 with a roundtrip 'Business Promo' fare priced at $1,126.20.

While on the topic of Malindo Air there are rumours circulating that Darwin may be their next Australian port (from Kuala Lumpur). Any such services would of course place pressure on Malaysia Airline's Darwin flights (I think these flights have been reduced to 3x weekly in recent times?), especially if OD operates a daily schedule
 
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XAM2175
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:42 pm

Luckily for VA it seems the general public haven't noticed that before the MCG pass and pointless trophy thing, XFH spent nearly an hour holding over North Geelong at 4-ish thousand feet...   
 
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qf2220
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:17 pm

Quoting melpax (Reply 157):
a way too early start to the fire season down here

Any start is too early to a fire season.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 162):
Qantas has been operating a lot of freight runs between BNE and SYD with 737s recently. I wonder what point it becomes worthwhile acquiring another 737 freighter.

Are one of the current freighters out of action?
 
DeltaB717
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:23 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 162):
Qantas has been operating a lot of freight runs between BNE and SYD with 737s recently. I wonder what point it becomes worthwhile acquiring another 737 freighter.

I think, but I haven't really spent much effort looking into it, that one of the Cobham 146 freighters must be in maintenance and these 737 flights are being used as cover?
 
81819
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:52 am

Quoting TN486 (Reply 164):
For those complaining about high airfares to AFL Grand Final - take your consumer shoes off and put on your airline CEO's shoes or your shareholders shoes. Different slant on things yes? Would I pay the fares asked, no way. Why? cause I am not that well endowed with disposable cash. Also, at last glance, I was sure Tiger was part of the Virgin Group of airlines. Yes, I know, its late, and I get a bit cranky when I am tired. Ni nite all, sweet dreams.

No body is arguing this!

I think what we have to remember is that the remake of Virgin Blue in to Virgin Australia really shifted the airline up a notch in market segments. The trick was always going to be how to do this without disenfranchising its existing (and somewhat loyal) customer base.

From a marketing perspective Virgin Australia would have been very conscious of this in it's marketing efforts.

Recently JB noted that the migration of some of VA's budget concious customers to Jetstar was always included in the VA marketing plan. If we consider last year Jetstar grew by 4% in a market that reduced in size by 2% we have some very significant numbers (1% of the Australian market is worth approximately $150m in incomes and in stating this, at the same time there would have been quite a few QANTAS customers who also migrated to Jetstar).

If we consider the behaviours of market segments and how they have fundamentally changed over the last ten years, the marketing campaigns relevant ten or even five years ago are probably no longer relevant today.

For instance, if we look at Social Media, VA's once traditional customer heartland (25-35 age group) are not shy in venting their frustration at perceived poor service / value for money. They are also a lot more cynical and will again vent their frustration (via social media) at what they perceive as marketing gimmicks.

As such, we had a social media campaign that instantly targeted VA's high ticket prices and poorly targeted marketing event for football grand final events.

What we have to remember, with Social Media a very small campaign can have a very large audience. It also has a lot of credibility because it represents the opinion of the market and not the marketers. As such a poorly targeted marketing campaign can almost have an immediate negative impact on a brand.

For me this is going to be a water shed year for Virgin Australia. It's transformation is almost complete!

In reality the capacity and market share numbers will shortly start telling us the real story! If the Virgin Australia airline sustainable in its own right into the future?

I suspect VA have gone a step too far! If we start seeing more VA customers migrating to Jetstar and TigerAir we will have a situation where VA's presence in the Australian market will decrease. For instance, at this stage VA is still an unprofitable airline and its fortunes going forward will in part be reliant upon them commanding a price premium for their seat offerings. Ultimately, this will result in higher ticket prices.

If we use the old marketing rule that every percent in price movement will have a corresponding movement in demand, a 5% increase in fares could see 5% of the airlines customers looking for other travel options. That would result in 1.75% of the total market looking to shift from VA to another carrier (TigerAir / Jestar) or means of transport (vehicle).

Again, these are serious numbers!

Profitability isn't just about charging the highest price. It is about having regular customers who are willing to pay a fair price for a product that they want. The question for VA becomes, will they have enough of those customers going forward!
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:32 am

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 158):
But in the case of the NRL/AFL finals, yes QF/VA are price gauging, but no one is being forced to fly (i.e. in the sense it's not life or death if you go to the Grand Final).
Quoting aryonoco (Reply 161):
If I was a VA or QF shareholder, or a staff for that matter, I would be incredibly upset if either VA or QF sold tickets at anything less than absolute maximum price with which they can fill their planes.
Quoting allrite (Reply 163):
One of the problems is that the airlines are attempting to maximise aircraft utilisation and may not have a large amount of spare capacity around.
Quoting TN486 (Reply 164):
For those complaining about high airfares to AFL Grand Final - take your consumer shoes off and put on your airline CEO's shoes or your shareholders shoes. Different slant on things yes? Would I pay the fares asked, no way. Why? cause I am not that well endowed with disposable cash. Also, at last glance, I was sure Tiger was part of the Virgin Group of airlines. Yes, I know, its late, and I get a bit cranky when I am tired. Ni nite all, sweet dreams.

Lets put this in a little bit of perspective:

1. It already is expensive to fly from Perth to anywhere in Australia. That's why the people of Perth go to Singapore and Bali for holidays rather than East;
2. Virgin is the "official airline" of the AFL. So their marketing has told us endlessly about their commitment to the game, flying the teams around etc etc but when push comes to shove they don't have the airlift to move the amount of supporters that needed to get from Perth to Melbourne on Grand Final Day;
3. Due to 2, QF and JQ also stepped up to the mark with additional A330 services, 747 and A321 services. Those capacity increases also came along with increased fares which was fair enough. A couple of my friends who were West Coast fans got QF fares for $1,600 return the week before the Preliminary Finals just in case the Eagles got through. They paid more so that the fares were refundable in case they didn't.
4. Virgin decided to do the same thing in terms of revenue and airfares dramatically increased to fly out of PER to just about anywhere en route to Melbourne. Whether you call that "revenue maximising" or "putting shareholders first", the reality is that Virgins marketing crap on about how they are the official airline and about how great the Football is and about their dedication to the fans and then, when push comes to shove, they rip the fans off with high airfares.

That's where the anger on social media came from because there is a disconnect with what Virgin marketing says and what it actually did. Virgin is no longer all things to all people and the market got a taste of that with the A330 flyover being a catalyst for protest at the perceived excess of the ticket prices.
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:56 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 171):
3. Due to 2, QF and JQ also stepped up to the mark with additional A330 services, 747 and A321 services. Those capacity increases also came along with increased fares which was fair enough. A couple of my friends who were West Coast fans got QF fares for $1,600 return the week before the Preliminary Finals just in case the Eagles got through. They paid more so that the fares were refundable in case they didn't.

I think the fares are warranted when airline economics are considered with a little bit of demand pricing thrown in.

Let's just say that the average one way fare Perth-Melbourne on a year round basis is $300 one way, and that load factors are sitting at 80%.

outside of the scheduled services, many of the airlines are flying aircraft across empty prior to the grand final and coming back after the grand final.

so overall loads on a return basis probably drop to 55-60% on the supplementary flights (empty over, 100% coming back?). On that basis a fare of $600 each way would be required to deliver the same revenue as would be derived under a 'business as usual' scenario.

so in the scheme of things $1600 for a flexi fare return sounds OK.
 
TN486
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:21 am

Quoting travelhound (Reply 170):
No body is arguing this

I dont think I suggested otherwise. I thank you so much your post, it was quite well put, thank you again, cheers
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
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allrite
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:46 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 171):
That's where the anger on social media came from because there is a disconnect with what Virgin marketing says and what it actually did. Virgin is no longer all things to all people and the market got a taste of that with the A330 flyover being a catalyst for protest at the perceived excess of the ticket prices.

But surely they are happy with how stylish it all is now with Virgin.  
I like artificial banana essence!
 
81819
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:58 pm

Quoting TN486 (Reply 173):

Hello TN486,

I re-visited my post. There was need for me to include the "no body is arguing this".

The post would have been better targeted if it was not included.

I hope I didn't offend!

I wrote the post in a hurry and probably should have proof read it before I posted.

Cheers

Travelhound!
 
TN486
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:21 am

Quoting travelhound (Reply 175):
I hope I didn't offend!

No offence taken sir, cheers.
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:21 am

Quoting allrite (Reply 174):
But surely they are happy with how stylish it all is now with Virgin.

LOL I don't think anyone could have cared less.  
 
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zkojq
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:37 am

Also, has the engine selection for QF789s been confirmed? Presumably GE, given that's what the JQ 788s have.

Quoting XAM2175 (Reply 167):
XFH spent nearly an hour holding over North Geelong at 4-ish thousand feet...

4,000ft? Ouch, that fuel burn must have been brutal.

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 168):
Are one of the current freighters out of action?

Not sure...

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 169):
I think, but I haven't really spent much effort looking into it, that one of the Cobham 146 freighters must be in maintenance and these 737 flights are being used as cover?

...but I guess this would make sense. Very expensive cover though. Most evenings one 737-8 is doing SYD-BNE whilst another does BNE-SYD.
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a320fan
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:27 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 178):

...but I guess this would make sense. Very expensive cover though. Most evenings one 737-8 is doing SYD-BNE whilst another does BNE-SYD.

Are we talking about the 737-300 freighters here? One flies MEL-LST most nights. I Can hear it go over at about 1am if I'm just lying in bed.
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zkojq
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:58 pm

Quoting A320fan (Reply 179):
Are we talking about the 737-300 freighters here? One flies MEL-LST most nights. I Can hear it go over at about 1am if I'm just lying in bed.

No, I'm referring to mainline QF 737-8s doing freight flights. On Wednesday VH-VYF flew BNE-SYD (QF7382) and today, VH-VYG flew the same route/flightnumber while VH-XZP did the reciprocal (QF7381).
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XAM2175
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:15 pm

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 138):
Up until now, they only operate in peak (i.e. holiday) periods. BNE-HNL operates twice weekly normally and the aircraft rotates from MEL through HNL to BNE.
Quoting zkokq (Reply 140):
he service will operate HNL-BNE-DPS-BNE-HNL

Thanks for that. A bit of a let down, I'd rather wanted to the try the 788 without committing to spending hours on board, but I ended up not being able to fly on the Monday anyway. Cheers again.
 
TN486
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:49 am

In regards to the SYD-BNE-SYD night freight flights by QF mainline, could it possibly be due to the non-existence of 767 ac now?
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
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qf2220
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:07 am

Quoting TN486 (Reply 182):

Except for the 767 that QF Freight uses....?
 
jupiter2
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:17 am

Quoting TN486 (Reply 182):
In regards to the SYD-BNE-SYD night freight flights by QF mainline, could it possibly be due to the non-existence of 767 ac now?
Quoting TN486 (Reply 182):
Except for the 767 that QF Freight uses....?

Surely if they have that much to move, wouldn't they be better off putting a 330 on and utilising it's belly capacity rather than a 738 ? Of course that is assuming that there is spare 330 capacity to run such a flight. Hardly see the worth of putting a few tonnes in a 738 to SYD/BNE, the cost per kg would be extravagant, especially compared to putting it on an over night truck like most freight in this country.
 
Thai77w
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:28 am

The 737 extra flights have been running for months. It's specifically due to a lack of capacity to move time critical overnight air freight. The a/c would otherwise be sitting idle overnight so they utilise the capacity. These flights are profitable, believe me. The freight uplifted on these flights more than covers the crew and fuel and other associated expenses. The A330 has recently moved onto more frequencies between BNE-SYD but it's not really a huge help as most of the capacity is required 2000hrs onwards when they are mostly operating day flights. If you remember when the 767 was flying they would operate several flights into the evening including the last of the night between the two ports.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:29 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 183):
Except for the 767 that QF Freight uses....?

The 763F does an Nightly SYD-AKL-CHC-MEL-SYD flight, so not the best option for freight between SYD-MEL. QF had to get the 763F for the Tasman because of the reduced cargo capacity when they went to all 737s on the Tasman.

We're as NZ doesn't have the problem, as they have at least an daily 77W on AKL-MEL/BNE along with 772/789 on AKL-SYD. Along with that they have the 763 on some routes, with the A320s also able to take freight.
 
qf002
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:40 am

QF used to run a passenger 767 over the Tasman every night before they got the dedicated freighter so the economics of sending an otherwise dormant 738 up to BNE overnight can't be too awful.

If it's a regular thing then surely another freight would make sense though?
 
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qf2220
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:36 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 186):

Maybe they need another one   !
 
ZuluAlpha
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:46 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 188):

Quoting zkncj (Reply 186):

Maybe they need another one   !

Bring on the 748F I say     
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:59 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 188):
Maybe they need another one   !

Or use some A321NEO's on the main truck, NZ does pretty well using its domestic A320s with cargo maybe Qantas could follow.
 
jupiter2
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:17 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 186):
The 763F does an Nightly SYD-AKL-CHC-MEL-SYD flight, so not the best option for freight between SYD-MEL. QF had to get the 763F for the Tasman because of the reduced cargo capacity when they went to all 737s on the Tasman.

We're as NZ doesn't have the problem, as they have at least an daily 77W on AKL-MEL/BNE along with 772/789 on AKL-SYD. Along with that they have the 763 on some routes, with the A320s also able to take freight.

The 763 freighter doesn't go to MEL, the routing is SYD/AKL/CHC/SYD and on Sunday it does a SYD/AKL/CNS/HKG/SYD routing.

For years QF ran a 763 passenger aircraft with just the belly space, SYD/AKL with CHC added later, mainly to cater for the Express Courier market, it was very successful. QF also did MEL/AKL for a while, not sure how long that lasted. The timings for the flights allow next morning delivery to the destination cities and in most cases next day for at least major cities. Pretty much the only courier/consolidator that didn't use it was DHL, who of course have their own aircraft.

The problem with the freighters into SYD of course is the curfew. Anything over the 146's aren't allowed in during curfew hours, as ridiculous as that is, so any 737 freight flights have be timed accordingly. Toll send ATR's into Bankstown during the night, but surely if QF need extra freight capacity into SYD at night they have to get some more 146's.
 
aryonoco
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:07 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 190):
Or use some A321NEO's on the main truck,

The A321 is an amazing aircraft, especially now in its NEO guise. I'm really disappointed that it doesn't see more action in Australia.

Realistically, if it wasn't for the silly one-upmanship between QF and VA over transcon J seats, the A321 would be the perfect aircraft for Perth to Eastern Australia.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:44 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 190):

They already do precisely that. They carry a LOT of cargo in the belly already, as almost anything can fit in a 737, and if it needs to be containerised it goes JQ. While the A320 has the advantage of been container loaded, there is nothing else that makes it a notably more superior cargo hauler, indeed the 73H can haul more stuff with it's higher MTOW. And if it needs pallets QF have plenty of A320s around already.
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:17 pm

PER-LHR? MEL-DFW?

Is this dinkum or just AJ's pipe dreams?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...lia-within-two-years-a6688236.html

"Non-stop flight from UK to Australia will happen within two years, says Qantas"

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ben175
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:27 pm

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 192):
Realistically, if it wasn't for the silly one-upmanship between QF and VA over transcon J seats, the A321 would be the perfect aircraft for Perth to Eastern Australia.

I think you underestimate the traffic between PER and the eastern states! The A330's quite often (especially in the peak travel periods) go out chockers. A321's would only work if the routes saw large increases in frequency.
 
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qf2220
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:07 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 194):

I would like to know what the full quote is - there has to be context here. Im on the skeptical side that this is something that AJ would promote heavily at the current time when there are other opportunities to use the 789s on that are less risky.
 
QF175
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 129

Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:32 pm

Australian Aviation Thread Part 130 is now up and running, please continue all discussion there.

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