grrtvc
Topic Author
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Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:17 am

Apologies if this has already been posted. I searched the forums but didn't see. Please delete if already posted.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigat...port-Safety-Hazard-328573831.html#

I have heard of other lighting and reflection issues at airports but this is the first I've heard of a stadium causing issues.
 
barney captain
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:58 am

Hazard? I'm not sure.

Distraction? Definitely.

The stadium is about 2 miles off of the departure end of the 30's in SJC. At night, the Jumbotron is visible from the moment you break ground. It's interesting that all other sports events in the Bay Area require a TFR during the game - apparently just not the new stadium.

Gotta have the TFR. Unless of course you can't.

[Edited 2015-09-22 23:08:02]
Southeast Of Disorder
 
ikramerica
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:01 am

That is one extremely bright facility. That video on the bottom is pretty crazy, though digital sensors do tend to get overloaded by brightness more than the human eye does.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:40 am

Quoting barney captain (Reply 1):
At night, the Jumbotron is visible from the moment you break ground.

"V1...rotate...****, the Niners just scored again!!!"  
 
barney captain
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:43 am

Soon we'll have to start doing SNA cutback procedures out of SJC during games to mitigate the noise.


"Hey, who put that airport there?!"
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Wingtips56
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:13 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 3):
"V1...rotate...****, the Niners just scored again!!!"

Sorry, especially as a 49er Faithful from back in the 60's. but it's another year of "*** the Niners just got scored on again!"

But seriously, what is TFR?
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

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Brewfangrb
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:24 am

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 5):
But seriously, what is TFR?

Temporary Flight Restriction. Used around stadiums to keep traffic from flying over or approaching the stadium. Or really, anywhere. There's a (effectively permanent) TFR over Disneyland and Disney World, they get put up quickly over wildfires, events like explosions...really anywhere where the FAA wants to limit air traffic.
 
ha763
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:49 am

Quoting barney captain (Reply 4):
Soon we'll have to start doing SNA cutback procedures out of SJC during games to mitigate the noise.

I thought this was kind of already done? Or is it dependent on aircraft and routing? All the times I have flown out of SJC, which have been on HA's 767s, we would level off at a couple thousand feet, hear the cutback in power and slowly climb until we hit the coastline, and then the engine spool back up and start climbing at a faster rate.
 
ckfred
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:34 pm

I was watching the Packers game Sunday night and noticed the blinking light atop the scoreboard at the north end of Lambeau Field. If you land at GRB on Runway 24, the stadium is just to the left of the approach to the runway.
 
as739x
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:26 pm

I was not flying the night of the Monday night game vs the Vikes 2 weeks ago, but I have scene the TFR for multiple sporting event at Levi. The departures are IFR from SJC, which allows flight through it. Most of the departures are just skimming the top of the 3,000ft as they pass the TFR anyways. However, if SJC goes into a southern configuration, that would pretty much eliminate VFR arrivals if there is a game TFR in place. I'll agree that if they are in a southern config at SJC it would be a little distracting, but these are professional pilots we are talking about.

If you look at the area around LGA this evening, there is a TFR for a NY Mets game (Citi Field) . This TFR lays over LGA, but it's just effecting VFR traffic.
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910A
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:39 pm

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 5):
Sorry, especially as a 49er Faithful from back in the 60's

You ever enjoyed "a game" at Kezar..interesting times back then..

Where were the pilots when Levi was being proposed? Southwest pilots screamed the world was coming to an end, regarding two proposed sites for the Cardinals stadium near SkyHarbor..One complaint that it would be to high, but the design showed the top of the stadium to be lower than Chase Field. So the stadium ended up in Eastern California.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:17 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 9):
However, if SJC goes into a southern configuration, that would pretty much eliminate VFR arrivals if there is a game TFR in place. I'll agree that if they are in a southern config at SJC it would be a little distracting, but these are professional pilots we are talking about.

No it doesn't. Stadium TFR's only require communications with ATC to enter. Simply using VFR flight following would allow you to land at SJC.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:28 pm

Quoting ha763 (Reply 7):
I thought this was kind of already done? Or is it dependent on aircraft and routing? All the times I have flown out of SJC, which have been on HA's 767s, we would level off at a couple thousand feet, hear the cutback in power and slowly climb until we hit the coastline, and then the engine spool back up and start climbing at a faster rate.

That's the departure pattern for traffic spacing from SFO traffic. It has nothing to do with noise abatement. The NH flight to NRT (and the old AA flight), fly over the peninsula at 5000 feet. I believe the Hawaii flights do the same.
 
LH707330
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:54 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 3):
Quoting barney captain (Reply 1):
At night, the Jumbotron is visible from the moment you break ground.

"V1...rotate...****, the Niners just scored again!!!"

That should never be an issue this season 
Quoting ha763 (Reply 7):
Quoting barney captain (Reply 4):
Soon we'll have to start doing SNA cutback procedures out of SJC during games to mitigate the noise.

I thought this was kind of already done? Or is it dependent on aircraft and routing? All the times I have flown out of SJC, which have been on HA's 767s, we would level off at a couple thousand feet, hear the cutback in power and slowly climb until we hit the coastline, and then the engine spool back up and start climbing at a faster rate.

That's to stay clear of SFO departures when going west. Most east- and northbound flights make a right turn and then climb over the arrivals.
 
cschleic
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:27 pm

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 13):
That's to stay clear of SFO departures when going west. Most east- and northbound flights make a right turn and then climb over the arrivals.

Yes, a right 360. Great view going around, especially at night.
 
UA444
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:32 pm

We flew right over the stadium in a holding pattern last month.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:29 pm

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 13):
That's to stay clear of SFO departures when going west. Most east- and northbound flights make a right turn and then climb over the arrivals.

North and east departures from the 30s do the Loop departure.
 
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NOLAWildcat
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:22 am

I saw the promos on the news for this segment. As a San Jose Quakes season ticket holder, I'm not surprised their new stadium (Avaya Stadium) just west of the 30s has had similar complaints. I'd think the bright scoreboard may have the effect of limiting the pilots' night vision, although the lights on the ramp are pretty bright too, so it may not be as much of a factor given that a crew would only get the full brunt of the scoreboard glow while lining up for departure rather than on approach. (I for one, love the location. I'm too busy watching the planes to see the halftime entertainment).

Does anyone know of any similar complaints about stadiums in other cities? I'd imagine you could get similar issues from arrivals into the 27s/28s at O'Hare due to Soldier Field and Wrigley or possibly from arrivals into DFW's 36s due to the Ballpark at Arlington. There's also the approaches from the east at PHL or at PHX. As I recall, both Citizens' Bank Park and the Linc are under the approach paths to Philly and Sun Devil Stadium is within a mile of the approaches to the 25s at PHX.
 
Wingtips56
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:38 am

There used to be an adult drive-in theater out in a field just east of Davis, CA, that was directly in line with the approach to SMF. Many a pilot came in low for that, to catch a peek, mostly the commuter flights as low and slow. I had one pilot complain one night but others came in all giddy.

I wonder if such a thing would nowadays be treated with TFR concerns, as it certainly could be distracting.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

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ha763
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:48 am

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 13):
That's to stay clear of SFO departures when going west. Most east- and northbound flights make a right turn and then climb over the arrivals.

I didn't think about SFO, but all my flights did cutback on the power and the engine noise in the cabin dropped from a roar to a purr. Plus, I was seated in the rear of the aircraft on all the flights. I wonder how quiet it would be on the 787?
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:10 pm

Quoting ha763 (Reply 19):
I didn't think about SFO, but all my flights did cutback on the power and the engine noise in the cabin dropped from a roar to a purr. Plus, I was seated in the rear of the aircraft on all the flights. I wonder how quiet it would be on the 787?

All flights anywhere cutback from takeoff to climb power at ~1000 feet.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:14 pm

Quoting NOLAWildcat (Reply 17):
I'd imagine you could get similar issues from arrivals into the 27s/28s at O'Hare due to Soldier Field and Wrigley

Wrigley's a bit too far south and too far away to cause problems with arriving on the 28s at ORD. The closest "encounter" in Chicago is between Solider Field and the approach to the 22s at MDW, but that's not a pattern MDW uses much. Departures from the 4s usually turn east or south pretty quickly.
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ScottB
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:24 pm

Quoting barney captain (Reply 4):
Soon we'll have to start doing SNA cutback procedures out of SJC during games to mitigate the noise.

"Hey, who put that airport there?!"

Actually, you'd figure the controllers might be watching the game and ask pilots to make the take-off extra-noisy when the visiting team is on offense...
 
LH707330
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:50 pm

Quoting cschleic (Reply 14):
Yes, a right 360. Great view going around, especially at night.

Indeed, I love it.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 16):
North and east departures from the 30s do the Loop departure.

Yep, I used to live there and do it all the time. You'd think modern technology would have found a way to give pilots a 3D tube that cuts through by now....

Quoting ScottB (Reply 22):
Actually, you'd figure the controllers might be watching the game and ask pilots to make the take-off extra-noisy when the visiting team is on offense...

Controllers watching games has been frowned on since 1977....
 
bill142
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:23 am

Will the TCAS identify the Hayne Plane?
 
coolian2
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:33 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 21):
Wrigley's a bit too far south and too far away to cause problems with arriving on the 28s at ORD. The closest "encounter" in Chicago is between Solider Field and the approach to the 22s at MDW, but that's not a pattern MDW uses much. Departures from the 4s usually turn east or south pretty quickly.

I was surprised to see the red lights still on Soldier Field so long after Meigs closed.
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BoeingGuy
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Fri Sep 25, 2015 4:35 pm

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 23):
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 16):
North and east departures from the 30s do the Loop departure.

Yep, I used to live there and do it all the time. You'd think modern technology would have found a way to give pilots a 3D tube that cuts through by now....

Will the BA flight have to do the Loop departure out of SJC when taking off from the 30s?

I did once see the AA 777 to NRT doing the Loop around San Jose, although usually they leveled off at 5000 feet and flew up the peninsula at the altitude. The NH flight did the same thing when I flew it, and I assume HU does also.
 
LH707330
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:01 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 26):
Will the BA flight have to do the Loop departure out of SJC when taking off from the 30s?

Probably either a full loop or a turn to the east and then head north over Tahoe somewhere.
 
b747400erf
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RE: Levi's Stadium Lights May Be Airport Safety Hazard

Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:36 am

"Norcal approach, request holding pattern over SJC to watch the ending of the football game"

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