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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:17 pm

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 33):
A nice vid of a LH A320neo delivery flight. Extremely low cabin noise!

Thanks for posting. Very quiet inside indeed.  
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:36 pm

The A321neo is being ferried back to TLS from PGF, They're not going above 10000ft which suggests that they're not presurising the cabin and the frame likely needs more repaires at Toulouse.

www.fr24.com/AIB05XB
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:40 am

Story has now reached the media:

http://aviationweek.com/commercial-a...fers-tail-strike-out-service-weeks

Quote:
The first Airbus A321neo will have to undergo significant repair work and stay on the ground for weeks following a tail strike during flights tests on Feb. 15.
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:13 am

The damage can be seen on the photo below. Click on the photo for full size, one can see a long scratch:

http://imagr.eu/up/6FAxH_DSC_0131.JPG

Source
http://tinyurl.com/zkhcncf
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:05 pm

And more info on the engine cooling issue:

Quote:
All production standard engines now feature a damper on the third and fourth shaft bearings to help stiffen the shaft. “The engines we are building in the factory today are to this bill of material and the first 20 engines we built were not. With these 20 we have a plan with the customers to go back and modify them as needed,” says Leduc.
Quote:
“We are basically going to be able to match rotor clearance, engine by engine. And we are going to do it with an algorithm that will have greater and greater fidelity over time. By the time we get to June, it will be down to 200 seconds for start time and by the time we get to December we will be down to 150 seconds for start time. It’s all about how much data we accumulate and the level of fidelity in the algorithm,” he adds.

Can we get below 150? Probably – but to be honest I’m not sure the operator cares. 150 is normal airport operations.” As for crew reaction, Leduc says Lufthansa’s pilots said “they love the engine, just fix the start time. That’s not bad for something that’s revolutionary.”
Quote:
Pratt also says the PW1100G is the only one of the family that has exhibited the issue. “It’s kind of curious, and I’m not going to say it is the cause, but it is certainly an indicator. This is the only engine we had to core mount to the pylon. All the other engines we could fan mount,” says Leduc.
Quote:
The new president also faces the critical challenge of steering Pratt’s production system through the largest ramp-up in its peacetime history. This will see deliveries of the PW1000G geared turbofan family go from around 20 in 2015 to 200 or more in 2016 and close to 1,400 by 2020.

Source
http://aviationweek.com/commercial-a...has-nothing-hide-gtf-starter-issue

Startup time of 150 seconds, versus 50 seconds on the LEAP.
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:12 pm

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 33):
Extremely low cabin noise!

I was amazed how quiet it was. Now some will be due to the plane being very lightly loaded. But the noise reduction is very significant.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 38):
Startup time of 150 seconds, versus 50 seconds on the LEAP.

There is question if the LEAP is 50 seconds total or per engine. The Pratt number is for two engines.


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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:13 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 38):

Startup time of 150 seconds, versus 50 seconds on the LEAP.

He's talking about 150 for both engines, LEAP said 50 seconds for one engine  

From that same article:

Quote:
“On an A320 it takes about 150 to 160 seconds to start both engines, and those are (IAE) V2500 kind of numbers,” says Leduc. “The initial PW1100G engines we put into service on Lufthansa take about 350 seconds.


For completeness, the LEAP quote:

Quote:
Each of the two Leap-1A engines installed on an A320neo need 50s to spool-up after the activation sequence is started

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/cfm-claims-50-second-start-up-time-for-a320neo-engin-421665/

[Edited 2016-02-16 04:15:44]
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:43 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 39):
There is question if the LEAP is 50 seconds total or per engine. The Pratt number is for two engines.
OK. Then the difference is not that big.

Quoting starbucks (Reply 40):
“On an A320 it takes about 150 to 160 seconds to start both engines, and those are (IAE) V2500 kind of numbers,” says Leduc. “The initial PW1100G engines we put into service on Lufthansa take about 350 seconds.

So I guess this means quite a few airlines are already operating for years with comparable start-up times. Meaning it won't be a big issue but still CFM has a small advantage here.

[Edited 2016-02-16 04:50:52]
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:53 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 41):
So I guess this means quite a few airlines are already operating for years with comparable start-up times. Meaning it win't be a big issue but still CFM has a small advantage here

The whole issue was totally exaggerated by media people which did not understand that there is pure physics behind it.
Also P&W did a bad public relations job about this issue.
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:33 pm

17% per trip fuel savings is definitely worth 200 extra seconds at the gate  

That is a massive performance considering they are the first delivered engines and FRA-HAM or FRA-MUC are very short hops with barely any cruise time. Let's see how it performs in maintenance & reliability over time, but so far fuel burn is certainly not a problem. No wonder PW was so confidently promising a 2% PIP for 2019 - IMO that looks more or less built into the current engine already, and will be unlocked as margins are removed.
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:45 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 41):

Airbus has recently fine tuned the A320CEO for single engine taxy
That can help the Purepower i guess.

Quote:
‘Single-engine taxiing without the APU’ modification for A320 Family

Airbus has recently achieved certification for “single engine taxiing without the APU” (SETWA) for the A320 Family. SETWA offers clear benefits both in terms of fuel savings and environmental friendliness. The solution consists of a wiring modification in the pylon and around the engine fire handle – which can be embodied during a typical night shift. Over 20 customers have already shown interest thanks to an estimated Return-on-Investment (ROI) of around one year. Currently operators use the APU while performing a single-engine taxi, and now with the modification they will be able to shut off the APU during this phase.

Sure it is integrated in the NEO
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:18 pm

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 44):
Sure it is integrated in the NEO

Most likely yes. Thanks for the info.  
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:15 am

Photo of the CFM A321neo slamming the ground during a touch and go:



Source
http://www.lindependant.fr/2016/02/1...us-en-test-a-perpignan,2157582.php
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:01 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 46):
Photo of the CFM A321neo slamming the ground during a touch and go:

Ouch! Poor A321, it's a rough life after all! The wheels are off the ground so hopefully the wing is at flying speed otherwise we know why there will be "weeks" of repair work.

A Google translation of one paragraph of the article:

The spotters to AéroSpot66 were present at the time of the incident. "On landing the aircraft was prancing and part of the tail of the plane touched the runway. The aircraft" bounced "a couple time " . AéroSpot66 even has a photo of the incident that they decided to broadcast only after the official communication of Airbus. "We asked ourselves the question of dissemination because it could harm the driver as well as Airbus."

[Edited 2016-02-17 05:04:43]
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:06 pm

Maybe this is old news, but PW says they will deliver repaired engines for A320neo in June,

17-FEB-2016 15:30:13
09:25 AM EST, 02/17/2016 (MT Newswires) -- Pratt & Whitney, a subsidiary of United Technologies (UTX), said on Wednesday that it will deliver repaired engines for Aibus' A320neo jets starting in June.

The engines were recalled to make "minor changes." Qatar Airlines, one of the first customers of the A320neo jet refused delivery of the planes due to the problem with the engine. While Pratt & Whitney will not comment, Qatar Airlines said it will demand compensation for an anticipated 'very huge delay" in receiving the planes.
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:19 pm

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 48):
, Qatar Airlines said it will demand compensation for an anticipated 'very huge delay" in receiving the planes.

But since they could accept the planes and live with the performance hits, I suspect they could claim at best only the losses due to those performance hits. That they could fully espect being launch customer.
Of course all depends on what is written in the contract, and how much Airbus (or P&W) will be willing to give up extra to save face, but I do not see him getting a mountain of gold this time. Makes a lot of fun for us, though, I am going to get my popcorn...
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:19 pm

Lufthansa will keep its A320neo jets close to home, for now.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...e-germany-until-pratt-engine-fixed

Quote:
Deutsche Lufthansa AG, the sole airline so far to take delivery of Airbus Group SE’s new A320neo model, will limit the plane to domestic German routes until glitches with the engine cooling system are resolved in coming weeks.

Lufthansa has flown its first A320neo between Frankfurt, Hamburg and Munich since receiving the aircraft in January, and the second, delivered Friday, will stick to those destinations to ensure access to maintenance personnel equipped to cope with any technical snags, Chief Executive Officer Carsten Spohr said at the plane handover ceremony in Hamburg.

“As soon as we have the issues resolved, we’ll use it in our whole network,” Spohr said. “I’m sure this will happen over the next few weeks.”
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:21 pm

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 48):
Maybe this is old news, but PW says they will deliver repaired engines for A320neo in June,

I wonder what they mean with 'by April, most of that will be solved' ?

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbus-a320neo-engine-idUSKCN0VL11Y
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:26 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 51):
I wonder what they mean with 'by April, most of that will be solved' ?

Maybe for April most will be solved but only in June all could be perfect and shiny, as AAB wants, carpets included.
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:07 am

Just one more photo to demonstrate the size of the engines:


Lufthansa Airbus A320-271N D-AINA-3665 by Daniel D., on Flickr
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:54 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 53):

Just one more photo to demonstrate the size of the engines:

they may now work perfectly just yet, but they do look simply gorgeous on the A320neo!
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:57 am

MSN 6849 for IndiGo is airborne on its first flight:
http://www.flightradar24.com/AIB01II/
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:16 pm

MSN 6819 too has been equipped with engines.


A.320-NEO INDIGO F-WWBK 6819 TO VT-ITD 19 02 16 TLS by L'AMI DU TARMAC, on Flickr
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:17 pm

And MSN 6819 made its first flight several days ago:

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/f-wwbk/#8dcb468
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:23 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 57):
And MSN 6819 made its first flight several days ago:

Actually it did four flights until today. First flight was January 20.
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:55 pm

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 58):
Actually it did four flights until today. First flight was January 20.
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 57):
And MSN 6819 made its first flight several days ago:

Indeed, looking at FR24 AIB05BK even departed from the delivery center in TLS, so there are now 2 IndiGo planes at the DC  
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:47 am

Looks like IndiGo is close to getting approval from the Indian CAA (DGCA) to start neo operations:

Quote:
Indigo will shortly be having the approval of DGCA for operating these airplanes. Under the Indian civil aviation laws, airline companies have to seek approval of the regulator (DGCA) for their choice of airplanes. Indigo is expected to get this approval in first week of March, paving the way for their incorporation into its fleet.
http://www.indigo-web-check-in.com/indigo-to-get-a320neos/

Me thinks (dual) delivery around the same time, as there are now 2 IndiGo neo's at the delivery center in Toulouse

[Edited 2016-02-24 01:48:44]
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:50 am

Quoting Starbucks (Reply 59):
so there are now 2 IndiGo planes at the DC

At least one plane is visible in this photo of the delivery center area:


Delivery Center 23/2/2016 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:07 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 61):
At least one plane is visible in this photo of the delivery center area:

Indeed, but I've seen both F-WWBK as F-WWDM depart from the DC on flightradar24 for a testflight  

Had a quick look back in time:

F-WWDM on 4-Feb:
http://i64.tinypic.com/205pnae.png

F-WWBK on 19-Feb
http://i64.tinypic.com/2rz6w5d.png

Both seem to have departed from the same spot at the DC, which could mean #1 went back to a hangar for some touch ups or changed to the other side of the DC or the frame in the pic is #1 and #2 switched places

//Edit: on the LH side of the neo, #4 MSN7078 rolled out, without engines of course.. :/
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cb6sIFkXIAIYnh5.jpg:large

[Edited 2016-02-24 02:10:39]
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:12 pm

The third LH A320neo has been fitted with its power plants.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/xfwspotter/25135465852/
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:18 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 63):
The third LH A320neo has been fitted with its power plants.

We sure it's the third? I mean I can't read the registration on the tail... LH's second neo is still at XFW, it could very well be that one being readied for delivery  
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:28 pm

Hmm, somehow I believed the second one was delivered during a ceremony some time ago.
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:36 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 65):
Hmm, somehow I believed the second one was delivered during a ceremony some time ago.

Yeah it was a nice ceremony with two aircraft D-AINA and D-AXAX (Future D-AINB). But the delivery flight with the journalists was done by D-AINA and the other was left at XFW.
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:12 pm

It ended up being this option:

Quoting Starbucks (Reply 62):
ups or changed to the other side of the DC
http://i67.tinypic.com/2ebg2l1.png
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:23 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 65):
Hmm, somehow I believed the second one was delivered during a ceremony some time ago.
Quoting Starbucks (Reply 66):
was left at XFW.

This picture from XFW-Spotter confirms that story, see NB on the tail:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/xfwspotter/24621338894/
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:08 am

Nice, well spotted 007  
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Fri Feb 26, 2016 2:49 pm

Reuters is reporting some problems on the PW1100G with an oil pump failure during flight testing

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/exclusive-pratt-whitney-a320neo-engine-121115034.html

Has anyone heard details about what happened?
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Fri Feb 26, 2016 2:53 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 70):
Has anyone heard details about what happened?

It's all in the article: a bearing had seized within the main oil pump.
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:40 pm

Quoting Starbucks (Reply 62):
F-WWBK on 19-Feb

MSN 6819 is up for another test flight:

http://fr24.com/AIB07BK/8ee260c
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:21 pm

Quoting Starbucks (Reply 68):
This picture from XFW-Spotter confirms that story, see NB on the tail:

Thank you, I wondered why Flightradar had not yet mentioned any flights with D-AINB.
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:25 pm

The F-WNEO and D-AVVA are clocking hours the last days, more time in the air than the LEAP frames.
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:03 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 74):
The F-WNEO and D-AVVA are clocking hours the last days, more time in the air than the LEAP frames.

D-AVVB has not flown for about three weeks now...
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:45 am

IndiGo is scheduled to receive its first A320neo in March with another 23 to follow in the next 24 months.

http://www.business-standard.com/art...ets-from-march-116022900159_1.html

Quote:
Budget airline IndiGo said on Monday it would receive its first A320neo jet in March, three months later than originally planned after manufacturer Airbus said it could not deliver the aircraft on time.

IndiGo, India's biggest airline by market share, had expected its first A320neo in December and nine jets by March. The airline said it would now take delivery of 24 planes in the year to March 2017, less than the 26 originally planned.
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:01 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 76):

Luckily March 2017 is only 12 months  
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:31 pm

Although unable to see if the engines are fitted, the second A321neo was outside at XFW on the 25th
http://flic.kr/p/DXmtEn

On a similar picture from the 26th it had disappeared again:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/25160944502/

But anyway, it's on the move and we might see more soon since it's due to fly in March as Fabrice Bregier said  

[Edited 2016-02-29 05:40:14]
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:37 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 76):
IndiGo is scheduled to receive its first A320neo in March with another 23 to follow in the next 24 months.

2 per month...Nice (ignoring typo).

6E will quickly become the #1 NEO operator.  

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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:11 pm

off topic

what is the DLH A380 doing there; haven't they all been delivered?

Quoting Starbucks (Reply 78):
On a similar picture from the 26th it had disappeared again:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9435258...4502/
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:16 pm

Paint

Quoting kmz (Reply 80):
what is the DLH A380 doing there; haven't they all been delivered?

Paint shop after IL-check in Manila...
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:33 am

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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 10

Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:49 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 82):
Close-up on the engineless A319neo:

On the A319neo, we should have MSN6464 (pictured) with P&W and MSN6620 with CFM, however I had contact with AeroTransport Database on the matter (They had MSN6620 listed as LH A320neo)
I was e-mailed back that apparently MSN6620 is being pushed back to 2020 (read "Will not be built" they told me)

Looking at the orders for the 319 we see that both A319 airline customers (Frontier 18x and Avianca 19x) chose the CFM option, the only ACJ and 12x Undisclosed are still unknown.
Would there be a chance that MSN6464 is converted to CFM and there will be no (or a very late) P&W prototype?

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