sirtoby
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:21 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 138):
That's just a durability upgrade, it won't really affect airline operations?

I don't think that "durability" is the whole story here...

See Lightsaber's earlier comments about open bleed...
 
Aviaponcho
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:31 am

Maybe that's why U turn Al still has not changed its mind on its neo engines...
 
StTim
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:04 am

My reading is that due to needing to run with the bleed values locked open it will affect fuel consumption.
 
sirtoby
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:53 pm

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 140):
My reading is that due to needing to run with the bleed values locked open it will affect fuel consumption.

  
 
starbucks
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:29 pm

Some A321neo action from XFW on June 2nd:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVqGwPcz9JY
 
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mariner
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:15 pm

Quoting starbucks (Reply 134):
But who knows how fast things move once those are fitted.

With Frontier's A321s, it's usually about three weeks from when they come out of the paint shop to when they are delivered to the customer.

Are there reasons why this should take longer?

mariner
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:17 pm

Quoting Richards2K14 (Reply 104):
She's part of the Clean Sky 2 Project and has had some colours added to her. Still looking good for an old bird!
Quoting starbucks (Reply 109):
Ok, not a neo, but since it was mentioned in this thread...

Flying as AIB59BA

MSN1 is now being used to test the new SESAR system.


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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:14 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 144):
Are there reasons why this should take longer?

Since the A321's are built in XFW where the cabin fit is done for the whole A320 family, this frame has to make it's First Flight, ferry to XFW, have it's cabin fitted, ferry back to TLS before the customer acceptance process can begin, this might take some extra time. But besides this and it being a neo I don't see any other problems I guess  

With my "How fast things move" I meant on the Spirit frame, their first is Build in XFW and might already have it's cabin fitted, so it COULD be as simple as strap some engines on, testflights and deliver. Since the question was who would be first F9 or NK.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 145):
MSN1 is now being used to test the new SESAR system.

I don't think Clean Sky 2 is part of the Single European Sky ATM Research  

[Edited 2016-06-10 00:18:26]

[Edited 2016-06-10 00:19:49]
 
Richards2K14
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:13 am

Quoting starbucks (Reply 146):
I don't think Clean Sky 2 is part of the Single European Sky ATM Research

I've seen her promote Clean Sky Project in small lettering alongside the front of the fuse with some of our external supplier logo's, however, the tail shows large lettering with an orange Background stating Flightlab.
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:25 am

Lufthansa's third A320neo, MSN 6920 / D-AINC, has been fitted with the upgraded PW1100G engines and is on its way to Al Ain to test those engines. Remember, the shaft bend issue was originally discovered in Al Ain. Perhaps Airbus will try to reproduce the conditions.

http://fr24.com/AIB101/9fd955f
http://twitter.com/aeroturbopower/status/741574834396798976

[Edited 2016-06-11 03:28:23]
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:43 am

*
Hopefully, this will significantly affect the delivery schedule of the, already in quite a large number piled up, . A320neo aircraft, foreseen to be powered by the . PW1127G-JM geared turbofan engines…


.


.


.



Nice regards

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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:46 am

Quoting mfranjic (Reply 149):
Hopefully, this will significantly affect the delivery schedule

That depends on the ramp-up of P&W.
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pugman211
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:43 pm

Let's hope the fix is a good one. I have a feeling it is, and I have a feeling we should see an uplift in neo production very soon.
 
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BobMUC
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:22 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 148):
Lufthansa's third A320neo, MSN 6920 / D-AINC, has been fitted with the upgraded PW1100G engines and is on its way to Al Ain to test those engines.

It's a bit unusual to perform such tests with a customer frame!?
Why not using one of the A320NEO test-frames?
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:24 pm

The ramp at P&W will be a significant challenge.

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 135):
Leap are hung but are not the final version...

It is worth remembering the compressors are poorly matched. This is a fuel burn and durability concern.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 138):
That's just a durability upgrade, it won't really affect airline operations?

Since the low compressor bleed valves are pinned open, the only issue is a *significant* fuel burn penalty. That means a significant increase in turbine inlet temperature as well as the fuel burn penalty hitting range.

The question is, how much of a range miss for the LEAP until the new low compressor goes into the fleet? The Pratts have a 3700nm range. What will the LEAP-1As have? I do not see any numbers out there, did I miss it? I hear numbers that are plausible, but I'm not sure what they're backed by (hunches or real numbers).

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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:34 pm

Quoting BobMUC (Reply 152):
Why not using one of the A320NEO test-frames?

Probably because it will allow them to get the first few aircraft with fixed engines out to customers a little more quickly this way.
 
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larshjort
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:51 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 153):
Since the low compressor bleed valves are pinned open, the only issue is a *significant* fuel burn penalty. That means a significant increase in turbine inlet temperature as well as the fuel burn penalty hitting range.

Wouldn't this result in a significant reduction in time before the next overhaul of the hot section on these engines?
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:33 am

Quoting larshjort (Reply 155):
Wouldn't this result in a significant reduction in time before the next overhaul of the hot section on these engines?


Yes. I worded 'poorly' when I said 'only.' This significant impacts overhaul intervals as well as fuel burn. It will put more strain on anti-ice subsystems (they'll run hotter aging them faster), oil subsystem (again, hotter), and all hot section materials that see the main stream gases. This will also age the high compressor a little quicker (not likely to impact overhaul intervals, but nothing likes the heat this will add).

Redesigning the LPC is non-trial. It is a big deal. My sources are saying that fuel burn should be at CFM's promise after this fix (or *really* close). But... Pratt has beat their promise and Pratt's promise was always 1% less fuel burn than CFM.

And Pratt has a PIP in work.   


Yes, Pratt has a start time issue and it wasn't until after EIS the software notification issue was fixed... But overall, the Pratt bugs have been... annoying, but less long term concerning.

We have a long road to see who will be the top seller as each should be guaranteed half the production slots until 3 years after the production ramp (which means until 2022 or so)...

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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:15 pm

The first Pegasus NEO with its engines attached can be seen here:
http://www.aviation-friends-hamburg-forum.de/showthread.php?tid=10864

Sorry, when using my tablet I am too stupid to show pics properly.

[Edited 2016-06-13 13:43:22]
 
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BobMUC
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:27 pm

 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:34 pm

Quoting BobMUC (Reply 158):
I'll give it a try:

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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:36 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 157):
The first Pegasus NEO with its engines detached can be seen here:

Do you mean attached?
 
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N14AZ
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:48 pm

@ Mjoelnir: oh come on, engines attached, engines detached, that's just a tiny technical detail. No need to nit-pick  

Seriously: thanks, changed my post quickly  
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:48 am

And so we have another CFM powered A320neo with engines installed.
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BobMUC
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:12 am

Any more information on D-AUBG in Al Ain? It arrived on June 11th and did a short flight the next day. No activity on FR24 since then.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:33 am

The P&W A321neo doing taxi tests on one engine:

https://twitter.com/Frenchpainter/statu ... 7165889538
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KarelXWB
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Re: RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:52 am

BobMUC wrote:
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 148):Lufthansa's third A320neo, MSN 6920 / D-AINC, has been fitted with the upgraded PW1100G engines and is on its way to Al Ain to test those engines.
It's a bit unusual to perform such tests with a customer frame!?
Why not using one of the A320NEO test-frames?


Tests like the hot weather campaign were not required for engine certification. I suppose Airbus are doing this to satisfy the customers; QR must be pleased.
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:41 am

Speaking of which, according to the article below a test flight with callsign AIB102 was conducted on Sunday.

http://www.flugrevue.de/zivilluftfahrt/ ... ain/685944
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lightsaber
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Re: RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:15 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Tests like the hot weather campaign were not required for engine certification. I suppose Airbus are doing this to satisfy the customers; QR must be pleased.

They might not be required, but how many customers would be convinced the fix is real without a hot test? Pratt needs to get the fix out soon and in large quantities.

When the engines pass the hot testing, customers will be relieved. Unfortunately for Pratt, they must now go 'above and beyond' to reassure their customer base.

I'll be very interested how CFM does at EIS. CFM does a better job of specifications. They learned from the 787. ;) But the Pratts are now doing well and the fix should help tremendously.

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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:48 am

msn 7126 will be the first frame delivered in South America and will go to LATAM Brasil as PT-TMN:

Image
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:05 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Lufthansa's third A320neo, MSN 6920 / D-AINC, has been fitted with the upgraded PW1100G engines and is on its way to Al Ain to test those engines. Remember, the shaft bend issue was originally discovered in Al Ain. Perhaps Airbus will try to reproduce the conditions.

http://fr24.com/AIB101/9fd955f
http://twitter.com/aeroturbopower/statu ... 4396798976[Edited 2016-06-11 03:28:23]


D-AINC is still in Al Ain with no activity. Yesterday and A400M flew to Al Ain, wonder if it transported a replacement engine.
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:14 am

reffado wrote:
msn 7126 will be the first frame delivered in South America and will go to LATAM Brasil as PT-TMN:

Image


Here's a better photo:

Image
Latam A320-271N msn 7126 by dn280tls, on Flickr
Last edited by KarelXWB on Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed image
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BobMUC
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Re: RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:25 am

D-AINC is still in Al Ain with no activity. Yesterday and A400M flew to Al Ain, wonder if it transported a replacement engine.


Hopefully not a bad sign... we saw those exact same patterns last time, too ...
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:35 am

Looks like IndiGo will take the first two A320neo's from QR.

http://www.aero.de/news-24409/IndiGo-ue ... ways-.html
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:35 pm

The Pegasus A320neo has been moved to the flight preparation area.

Image
A320neo Pegasus TC-NBA by XFW-Spotter, on Flickr
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starbucks
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:20 pm

F-WWII, the 5th neo for IndiGo which was spotted without it's engines a while ago in TLS is back to flying:
https://www.flightradar24.com/AIB03II/a1d469a

Possibly with engines that have the fix installed? If it's working, still no activity on D-AUBG in Al-Ain
 
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:35 pm

starbucks wrote:
Possibly with engines that have the fix installed? If it's working, still no activity on D-AUBG in Al-Ain

I doubt they need to do much flying if they are testing the rotor bowing issue fix so it is entirely possible that all of the testing they are carrying out at the moment in Al-Ain is ground testing - alternating startup/engine runs and cooling periods.

There could actually be a lot of activity that we just can't see on the normal tracking sites like Fr24.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:32 am

Perhaps, but that A400M flying to Al-Ain doesn't feel good IMO. Can't be a coincidence. Back in 2015 the A400M too had to carry a replacement engine to Al-Ain after the bowed engine issue was discovered.
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:36 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Perhaps, but that A400M flying to Al-Ain doesn't feel good IMO. Can't be a coincidence. Back in 2015 the A400M too had to carry a replacement engine to Al-Ain after the bowed engine issue was discovered.


I hope we are not seeing a PWexit... :-(
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:39 am

The left engine seems to be covered by an inflatable tent.

http://www.pprune.org/spectators-balcon ... o-aln.html

Image
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BobMUC
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:31 pm

D-AUBG was in the air for two hours today:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... g/#a252a69
 
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Pie11e
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:59 am

And flying again today,
Good news !
Last 2 weeks ground test must have been successful enough to spend some time in the air now.
 
StTim
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:17 am

I suspect they did a lot of ground runs and tests and then a partial strip down to prove the results. Now we have moved on to the flyingt test part.

Caution will be the watch word here. No one wants to declare the fix is the solution until they are absolutely sure.
 
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speedygonzales
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:33 am

Looks like it's going back home now:
https://www.flightradar24.com/AIB126/
Ignorance kills. :tombstone:
 
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Pie11e
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:11 am

Hope this will be a direct flight this time...
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:49 am

Below is a schema of the 4th A320 assembly building that will be constructed in XFW.

Image
http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/quick ... june-2016/
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rbrunner
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:31 am

speedygonzales wrote:
Looks like it's going back home now:
https://www.flightradar24.com/AIB126/


It is indeed. Hope the fix is REALLY good.
 
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:50 pm

@Karel
Strange way to draw the wing footprint... just as if there will be some variation on the wing length.... :mrgreen:
 
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BobMUC
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:59 pm

Aviaponcho wrote:
@Karel
Strange way to draw the wing footprint... just as if there will be some variation on the wing length.... :mrgreen:


Maybe for "normal" wings with winglets and for wings with sharklets!?
 
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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 11

Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:42 pm

NEO not available without them i guess

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