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Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:18 pm
by ikolkyo
Man the A319 looks so small to me now, imagine an A318neo...

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:33 am
by KarelXWB
Delivery goal for 2017 is set:

@AirbusGroup 2016 "Our goal is to triple #A320neos deliveries in 2017 versus 60 deliveries in 2016 out of 545 A320 deliveries F #Bregier COO


https://twitter.com/vguillermard/status ... 7507535872

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:33 pm
by pugman211
First Neo assembly will start soon in China MSN 7803.

Also, I think we should see another A321 Neo (MSN 7589) roll out the FAL soon, Virgin America.

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:27 pm
by KarelXWB
First Citilink A320neo delivered:

Airbus A320 -251N 7466 PK-GTA Citilink Express delivery 22-23feb17 TLS-RKT-CMB-CGK ex F-WWDZ

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:21 pm
by KarelXWB
More IndiGo activities:

MSN 7331 parked at the delivry centre https://flic.kr/p/R6njJT
MSN 7391 ferried CHR-TLS after paint https://flic.kr/p/S89dFf
MSN 7396 ferried TLS-CHR for paint https://flic.kr/p/R7RVdF
MSN 7510 emerged from final assembly https://flic.kr/p/RYu2DE

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:33 pm
by KarelXWB
More recent NEO activities:

MSN 7333 Tianjin Airlines ferried XFW-TLS after cabin fit https://flic.kr/p/RKBasY
MSN 7449 China Southern final registration applied https://flic.kr/p/R875og
MSN 7483 ANA engines installed https://flic.kr/p/R5rQBs
MSN 7489 SAS first flight today https://flic.kr/p/R4Vrto
MSN 7494 Azul first flight today https://flic.kr/p/R7yjNH

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:52 pm
by Theseus
ikolkyo wrote:
Man the A319 looks so small to me now, imagine an A318neo...


Well, it is still engine-less, so it is a bit early to make that judgment. With engines, it will look small indeed. ;-)

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:05 pm
by speedygonzales
What's the Leap A321 prototype doing at Chicago Rockford?

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:24 pm
by lightsaber
speedygonzales wrote:
What's the Leap A321 prototype doing at Chicago Rockford?

In mid-December Pratt/Airbus certified the A321NEO.

Does anyone know when first delivery is expected?

Lightsaber

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:40 pm
by KarelXWB
IndiGo #17 delivered:

Airbus A320 -271N 7331 VT-ITP IndiGo Airlines delivery 23feb17 TLS-DEL ex F-WWBO

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:41 pm
by keesje
lightsaber wrote:
speedygonzales wrote:
What's the Leap A321 prototype doing at Chicago Rockford?

In mid-December Pratt/Airbus certified the A321NEO.

Does anyone know when first delivery is expected?

Lightsaber


I've asked a few times in this thread. I have to be patient, it will be there etc. Same for the first operator..

Probably the engine.

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:20 am
by BobleBrave
KarelXWB wrote:
First Citilink A320neo delivered:

Airbus A320 -251N 7466 PK-GTA Citilink Express delivery 22-23feb17 TLS-RKT-CMB-CGK ex F-WWDZ


Image

Image

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:18 am
by Someone83
Delivery of the next to China Southern planned for today

Airbus A320 -271N 7449 B-8672 China Southern delivery 24feb17 XFW-TSE ex D-AVVD

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:26 pm
by KarelXWB
SriLankan Airlines' first A320neo has been handed over to the airline, delivery flight next Monday.

Image
https://www.facebook.com/flysrilankan/p ... 429631546/

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:34 pm
by nimool
how is the backlog of the A320neo and ceo?
How long until Airbus starts IR's A320s? we talking month or year?

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:10 pm
by KarelXWB
Virgin America's first A321neo (MSN 7589) emerged from final assembly.

Image
A321neo Virgin America N921VA by Tobias Gudat, on Flickr

Image
A321neo Virgin America N921VA by Tobias Gudat, on Flickr

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:16 pm
by BobleBrave
nimool wrote:
how is the backlog of the A320neo and ceo?
How long until Airbus starts IR's A320s? we talking month or year?


It's already been a month since the first A321 was delivered to Iran Air... Or are you asking specifically for the A320 variant ?

Image

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressreleases/press-release-detail/detail/iran-air-takes-delivery-of-its-first-of-100-airbus-aircraft/

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:39 pm
by nimool
BobleBrave wrote:
nimool wrote:
how is the backlog of the A320neo and ceo?
How long until Airbus starts IR's A320s? we talking month or year?


Or are you asking specifically for the A320 variant ?

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressreleases/press-release-detail/detail/iran-air-takes-delivery-of-its-first-of-100-airbus-aircraft/


Yes Specifically about the A320 varients, as the thw A330 and the A321 were both initially for Avianca, therefore how is the backlog for the orders IR placed?

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:53 pm
by KarelXWB
Another China Southern delivered:

Airbus A320 -271N 7343 B-8671 China Southern delivery 28feb17 TLS-TSE ex F-WWBF

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:21 pm
by KarelXWB
Air India #2 delivered:

Airbus A320 -251N 7475 VT-CID Air India delivery 28feb17 TLS-DEL ex F-WWDN

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:26 pm
by KarelXWB
Champ the Bronco delivered:

Airbus A320 -251N 7472 N307FR Frontier Airlines delivery 25feb17 TLS-YYR-TPA "Champ the Bronco" ex F-WWDM


Image
Frontier A320-251N msn 7472 by dn280tls, on Flickr

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:08 pm
by azjubilee
What's the status on Pratt deliveries to NEO customers? Just curious if the 3 month delay of 321neo's to Hawaiian will hold, or be prolonged.

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:11 am
by keesje
The silence around A321NEO deliveries is becoming hard to ignore.

Apparently the higher thrust Pratt & Whitney PurePower PW1100G-JM variant is not rolling off the lines as hoped, promised, expected.

A delay is all but official. Hopefully it is limited.

Image

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:46 am
by KarelXWB
There is no need for speculation. Qatar walked away from the P&W engine so the first two production frames (originally due in January and February) cannot be delivered. The next customer in line is China Southern which I believe is due for delivery in March (unless the CAAC delays the introduction as they did on the A320neo).

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:43 pm
by KarelXWB
And now the CFM powered A321neo received joined EASA/FAA type certification:

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-e ... ification/

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:22 pm
by speedygonzales
At least four A321n have been painted already, but all still engineless. MSN 7530 and 7548 for China Southern, 7567 for Air Astana and 7589 for Virgin America.
What will happen with the early Qatar MSNs? Built and stored, built later, not built or re-assigned to another customer?

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:32 pm
by KarelXWB
The QR A321neo's may end up with another carrier, just as it happened with the A320neo's. However, refurbishment will take some time.

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:26 pm
by sirtoby
KarelXWB wrote:
And now the CFM powered A321neo received joined EASA/FAA type certification:

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-e ... ification/


What the hell happened to noise performance of the LEAP-1A? It's even worse than the CFM56! Maybe typos???

https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/files ... ssue10.pdf

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:27 pm
by piotrg
KarelXWB wrote:
There is no need for speculation. Qatar walked away from the P&W engine so the first two production frames (originally due in January and February) cannot be delivered. The next customer in line is China Southern which I believe is due for delivery in March (unless the CAAC delays the introduction as they did on the A320neo).

Did they switch to CFM LEAP?

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:33 pm
by ikolkyo
sirtoby wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
And now the CFM powered A321neo received joined EASA/FAA type certification:

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-e ... ification/


What the hell happened to noise performance of the LEAP-1A? It's even worse than the CFM56! Maybe typos???

https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/files ... ssue10.pdf


Got any numbers? 217 pages on mobile is not happening.

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:45 pm
by sirtoby
Got any numbers? 217 pages on mobile is not happening.[/quote]

Cummulated noise for 93.5t MTOW
A321-214 : 280.1dB
A321-231 : 278.9dB
A321-271N: 268.7dB
A321-251N: 281.7dB

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:06 pm
by BobMUC
KarelXWB wrote:
And now the CFM powered A321neo received joined EASA/FAA type certification:

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-e ... ification/


And as expected, with a nice video with the test highlights:
http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-e ... 5D=3307809

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:39 pm
by Dardania
BobMUC wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
And now the CFM powered A321neo received joined EASA/FAA type certification:

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-e ... ification/


And as expected, with a nice video with the test highlights:
http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-e ... 5D=3307809


Nice video indeed - I'd never seen that "velocity minimum control on ground" at around 40s before - anyone know what the intent of that test is? looks pretty out of control if I'm honest...

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:43 pm
by ikolkyo
What is up with the sound levels there? Has to be an error.

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:50 pm
by azjubilee
KarelXWB wrote:
There is no need for speculation. Qatar walked away from the P&W engine so the first two production frames (originally due in January and February) cannot be delivered. The next customer in line is China Southern which I believe is due for delivery in March (unless the CAAC delays the introduction as they did on the A320neo).


Thanks for the info. I was indeed looking for facts and not pure speculation. HAL's deliveries are at least 3 months late, with many speculating that the delays will slip further. Any insight into how well Pratt is catching up with their backlog of deliveries to Airbus?

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:59 pm
by KarelXWB
azjubilee wrote:
Thanks for the info. I was indeed looking for facts and not pure speculation. HAL's deliveries are at least 3 months late, with many speculating that the delays will slip further. Any insight into how well Pratt is catching up with their backlog of deliveries to Airbus?


HAL is a bit of a different story. Unlike the early A321neo customers, HAL selected the higher thrust PW1135G engine which has not been certified yet. P&W is still working on that engine:

"Airbus is giving us their best belief in the delivery of this aircraft; it’s tied to the release of an improved component in the Pratt GTF engine. So I think their level of confidence is reasonably high".

http://atwonline.com/airline-financials ... y-delay-4q

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:00 pm
by lightsaber
sirtoby wrote:
Got any numbers? 217 pages on mobile is not happening.


Cummulated noise for 93.5t MTOW
A321-214 : 280.1dB
A321-231 : 278.9dB
A321-271N: 268.7dB
A321-251N: 281.7dB[/quote]
That is not as expected. I was wondering where respective to the Pratt within a few decibel. Louder than either the V2500 or CFM seems off.

I'm on mobile, so was any one test identified?

Lightsaber

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:10 pm
by azjubilee
KarelXWB wrote:

HAL is a bit of a different story. Unlike the early A321neo customers, HAL selected the higher thrust PW1135G engine which has not been certified yet. P&W is still working on that engine:


Interesting... I didn't realize this was a certification delay, I thought it was in regards to Pratt still catching up with their fixes. Well... hopefully it really only 3 months and won't affect the 8 scheduled for delivery in 2018.

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:14 pm
by KarelXWB
azjubilee wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:

HAL is a bit of a different story. Unlike the early A321neo customers, HAL selected the higher thrust PW1135G engine which has not been certified yet. P&W is still working on that engine:


Interesting... I didn't realize this was a certification delay, I thought it was in regards to Pratt still catching up with their fixes. Well... hopefully it really only 3 months and won't affect the 8 scheduled for delivery in 2018.


It could be a combination of both. The P&W production delays may have cascaded on the PW1135G, while the engine itself also needed a better component.

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:21 pm
by KarelXWB
To continue on HAL, the component that Airbus is waiting for is an improved combustion chamber. Will be available in September 2017. So don't expect PW1135G certification before September. That's going to make a 2017 delivery very tight.

Image
https://twitter.com/shukla_tarun/status ... 2811397120

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:46 pm
by azjubilee
KarelXWB wrote:
To continue on HAL, the component that Airbus is waiting for is an improved combustion chamber. Will be available in September 2017. So don't expect PW1135G certification before September. That's going to make a 2017 delivery very tight.


Ouch, for HAL. Is HAL the launch customer for this 1135G engine? Hopefully staking the next phase of growth and final 767 retirement on this new technology will not backfire.

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:50 pm
by Boeingphan
That's weird because a couple weeks ago I was the one saying they had a "spate" of engine failures and everyone thought I was bashing PW. :o

KarelXWB wrote:
To continue on HAL, the component that Airbus is waiting for is an improved combustion chamber. Will be available in September 2017. So don't expect PW1135G certification before September. That's going to make a 2017 delivery very tight.

Image
https://twitter.com/shukla_tarun/status ... 2811397120

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:59 pm
by QuarkFly
KarelXWB wrote:


Pratt may have great GTF technology, but production ramp and initial in-service reliability does not look good. PW1100 is walking on thin ice...fix these issues soon and ramp-up...or endanger not only Pratt but OEM's that depend on GTF family including CSeries, MRJ...

...25% degradation of combustion chambers due to aircraft in coastal environments on engines only a few months old? Somebody more familiar with combustors explain please? And why this was not picked up during testing and certification? Also 28 engines removed because of a bearing...Ughh!!

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:11 pm
by 7BOEING7
Dardania wrote:
Nice video indeed - I'd never seen that "velocity minimum control on ground" at around 40s before - anyone know what the intent of that test is? looks pretty out of control if I'm honest...


Just to confirm controllability of the airplane with an engine failure at the worst case scenario during takeoff -- both engines at full takeoff thrust, followed by failure of one engine at a speed where the rudder has no affect on directional control and rudder pedal steering will not keep you straight on the runway. At higher speeds the rudder is more effective and the airplane doesn't veer off the center line as much, if at all, and the autobrakes may be "armed".

Saw this in about every recurrent training session I went though in my career. It's a real "elbows and a..holes" maneuver -- you instinctively jump on one rudder to steer back to the centerline trying to brake at the same time with both rudder pedals (one full forward, the other full aft) and then using the nose wheel tiller for steering when you're still headed off the runway at a speed during a turn you're not used to operating the tiller at.

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:58 am
by VirginFlyer
KarelXWB wrote:
The first A319neo, MSN 6464, surfaced again. Perhaps they pulled it out of storage to prepare engine installation.

Image
D-AVWA at Hamburg - Finkenwerder
by Philipp Wennrich on netAirspace.com

What engines are planned to be installed on this? According to the data at http://www.pdxlight.com/neomax.htm (not updated since November 2015) of the 50 firm orders, 35 (17 Avianca and 18 Frontier) are CFM, and the other 15 are unspecified. Is the plan to certify both engine types regardless, or only certify the A319neo/PW1100 combination if orders come in?

V/F

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:48 am
by VirginFlyer
Slightly off topic, but while we're on the subject of engines, why are the engine codes for the A320neo family different to previous types (5 instead of 1 for CFM, 7 instead of 2 for Pratt & Whitney)?

V/F

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:24 am
by keesje
At least we can move away from the "speculation" "unconfirmed" "rumors" smoke & mirrors.

I don't know what xx % degradation of combuster chamber means (Lightsaber?) but a solution in sept 2017 can lead to a lot of "gliders" short term if Airbus can't re areange its production/ supply chain.

The Tolan chamber being in trouble is the core of the engine. "coastal area" is vague, almost every big city in the world is coastal area.

Hope they can work this out quickly and find solution for the airlines. The GTF powered A321 is supposdd to be a game changer, reflected by backlog and nervous competition.

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:35 am
by ikolkyo
VirginFlyer wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
The first A319neo, MSN 6464, surfaced again. Perhaps they pulled it out of storage to prepare engine installation.

Image
D-AVWA at Hamburg - Finkenwerder
by Philipp Wennrich on netAirspace.com

What engines are planned to be installed on this? According to the data at http://www.pdxlight.com/neomax.htm (not updated since November 2015) of the 50 firm orders, 35 (17 Avianca and 18 Frontier) are CFM, and the other 15 are unspecified. Is the plan to certify both engine types regardless, or only certify the A319neo/PW1100 combination if orders come in?

V/F


So 35 orders are confirmed to be the LEAP but you are asking if they plan on only certifying the PW?

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:36 am
by KarelXWB
Boeingphan wrote:
That's weird because a couple weeks ago I was the one saying they had a "spate" of engine failures and everyone thought I was bashing PW. :o


Not weird at all. Few weeks ago we only knew about a few engine replacements on the Spirit fleet and a GoAir failure, clearly not enough proof to talk about "a spate of engine failures".

QuarkFly wrote:
Pratt may have great GTF technology, but production ramp and initial in-service reliability does not look good. PW1100 is walking on thin ice...fix these issues soon and ramp-up...or endanger not only Pratt but OEM's that depend on GTF family including CSeries, MRJ...


Production ramp-up is well underway and as the article states, improved components are under development. All in service engines can be retrofitted. Until then, airlines will have to check their engines every ~ 300 hours. Unlike the shaft bend issue from last year, there's no reason to halt production ramp-up. In fact, deliveries are still ongoing.

keesje wrote:
At least we can move away from the "speculation" "unconfirmed" "rumors" smoke & mirrors.

I don't know what xx % degradation of combuster chamber means (Lightsaber?) but a solution in sept 2017 can lead to a lot of "gliders" short term if Airbus can't re areange its production/ supply chain.

The Tolan chamber being in trouble is the core of the engine. "coastal area" is vague, almost every big city in the world is coastal area.

Hope they can work this out quickly and find solution for the airlines. The GTF powered A321 is supposdd to be a game changer, reflected by backlog and nervous competition.


I don't understand where the glider assumption comes from. These teething issues won't stop deliveries. Even IndiGo continues to take delivery of P&W powered A320neo aircraft; they received 3 aircraft in February. Delivery stream will just continue and parts will be replaced once they become available. Early failures of some components are classic teething issues, this is not the same scale as the shaft bend issue from last year.

Re: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread - Part 7

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:00 pm
by VirginFlyer
ikolkyo wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
The first A319neo, MSN 6464, surfaced again. Perhaps they pulled it out of storage to prepare engine installation.

Image
D-AVWA at Hamburg - Finkenwerder
by Philipp Wennrich on netAirspace.com

What engines are planned to be installed on this? According to the data at http://www.pdxlight.com/neomax.htm (not updated since November 2015) of the 50 firm orders, 35 (17 Avianca and 18 Frontier) are CFM, and the other 15 are unspecified. Is the plan to certify both engine types regardless, or only certify the A319neo/PW1100 combination if orders come in?

V/F


So 35 orders are confirmed to be the LEAP but you are asking if they plan on only certifying the PW?

Other way around. I assume certifying with the CFM is a given, so I'm asking if they plan on certifying with P&W regardless of orders, or if they'll only do that if the orders come in.

V/F