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LatAmFlyer
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UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:08 am

I was recently on a 787 flight IAH-SAN on UA in F, and someone -- either in the cockpit or a FA, overrode my ability to open the window "shade". Someone had blackened out the window even though the flight was conducted in broad daylight so that nobody could see out. I like flying over the American SW, and this was a real PITA to me. Is this standard practice of UA's and do other airlines flying the 787 do the same thing?
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:20 am

All 787s come with the ability for the crew to control the shades.
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nyc2theworld
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:22 am

Did you ring the call button to ask why you couldn't control the shades yourself?
Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
 
bourbon
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:22 am

Quoting LatAmFlyer (Thread starter):

When the shades are "blackened" you can still see out of them.
 
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LatAmFlyer
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:24 am

True, I can still see out of them, but not very well, and certainly not well enough to take photos.
 
ordpark
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:34 am

Just a question since UA does not fly the 787 to SAN are you sure it
was UA or did you connect thru LAX or SFO from IAH?
 
777way
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:38 am

Can airlines order conventional blinds over this gimmik?
 
AA737-823
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:50 am

This, for me, is the biggest drawback to flying the 787.
They advertised how much better a passenger feels when they have more natural light through huge windows... and then they effectively turn the widnows completely off.

It's not just UA; ANA did it for an entire daytime flight from SIN to NRT. Good luck adjustign your body clock, on a seven hour daytime flight conducted in man-made darkness!!!

Quoting 777way (Reply 6):
Can airlines order conventional blinds over this gimmik?

It's not a gimmick, it's a great feature. Fantastic to be able to cancel out the bright sun, but still see out. NOT fantastic to have that choice made for you.

Quoting bourbon (Reply 3):
When the shades are "blackened" you can still see out of them.

Brealy. True, but not to my (or the OP's) satisfaction.

My personal opinion is that if you want darkness in the cabin, buy a blindfold.


I'd be okay with the flight attendants limiting them to, say, half-opcaity or lower. That way, those of us who wish to see out can have our way, while not disturbing others with too much daylight.
 
SPREE34
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:53 am

Yet another way UA is pissing passengers off.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
burnsie28
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:07 am

UA at least released the shades on decent when I flew PVG-LAX. However, BA's didn't fully go clear until after the main gears touched down when I flew LHR-AUS.
 
FlyHossD
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:00 am

Quoting LatAmFlyer (Thread starter):

I was recently on a 787 flight IAH-SAN on UA in F, and someone --

When did UA start flying 787s from IAH to SAN?
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
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LatAmFlyer
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:09 am

Quoting ordpark (Reply 5):
Just a question since UA does not fly the 787 to SAN are you sure it

Ah, yes, it was IAH-LAX. Not SAN.
 
N1120A
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:36 am

Kind of stupid that they did this for a daylight flight. I do like the ability to keep the window open but not have some aisle dweller complaining about the sun.

Quoting 777way (Reply 6):
Can airlines order conventional blinds over this gimmik?

How is it a gimmick? It allows significantly more choice for passengers.

Anyway, I don't think it is an option. I have heard, however, that the 7810 and the 777X will have conventional blinds. Unfortunate.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
b747400erf
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:42 am

I have only heard of night flights having the shades closed, to let people sleep. But during the day? If you called an FA, they told you to keep it closed? That doesn't make sense. Removing CH9 is bad enough.
 
Max Q
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:01 am

I suspected that flight attendants would start doing this, whether its the airlines policy or
their personal choice (more likely) its another good reason to stick with pull down shades.


If you have a window seat you should be able to look out of the window if you want to.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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KPDX
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:46 am

Strange. I flew a UAL 788 in June, and the cabin crew kept dimming the windows enroute, but I was able to undim it every time without issue...
 
boilerla
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:50 am

IMHO somebody letting in light during a 15 hour flight TPAC is no different than blaring their music loudly. It's not courteous to the rest of the plane. My last TPAC flight, the 8 year old in our row kept opening and closing the shade every 20 minutes. You'd just start to fall asleep when bam, it's blindingly bright out.

I personally like the fact that UA and other airlines are preventing the window shades, and on the 787 you can have it both ways--look outside, but no light.
 
rta
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:56 am

I think the main benefit of this windows is during overnight daylight flights.

Quoting KPDX (Reply 15):
Strange. I flew a UAL 788 in June, and the cabin crew kept dimming the windows enroute, but I was able to undim it every time without issue...

There must be a setting to allow for an override.
 
MSPNWA
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:02 am

So many lazy crews. Whether it's conventional shades or dimming windows, they don't want awake customers that might actually want service they deserve. Nothing bothers me more from flight attendants than this. At least the 787 offers a chance to see something outside, even though it's not what it should be.
 
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:08 am

Quoting boilerla (Reply 16):


IMHO somebody letting in light during a 15 hour flight TPAC is no different than blaring their music loudly. It's not courteous to the rest of the plane. My last TPAC flight, the 8 year old in our row kept opening and closing the shade every 20 minutes. You'd just start to fall asleep when bam, it's blindingly bright out.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you there. If I paid to get a window seat, and I want to look out the window, then so be it. Now, granted, I at least have enough sense to look around (if the window shades around me are closed) to make sure I'm not going to completely disturb anyone sleeping nearby...and if opening the shade will, then I'll raise it/undim it just below the point where it will be a nuisance.
Whatever happened to politely asking someone to lower their shade...or if it's ok that you recline onto their lap? Common courtesy has gone out the window...
 
Max Q
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:18 am

Quoting rta (Reply 17):
I think the main benefit of this windows is during overnight daylight flights.

Er, say again ?

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 19):
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you there. If I paid to get a window seat, and I want to look out the window, then so be it. Now, granted, I at least have enough sense to look around (if the window shades around me are closed) to make sure I'm not going to completely disturb anyone sleeping nearby...and if opening the shade will, then I'll raise it/undim it just below the point where it will be a nuisance.
Whatever happened to politely asking someone to lower their shade...or if it's ok that you recline onto their lap? Common courtesy has gone out the window...

Well said.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
N1120A
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:26 am

Quoting boilerla (Reply 16):
My last TPAC flight, the 8 year old in our row kept opening and closing the shade every 20 minutes.

That is annoying, but not the norm.

Quoting boilerla (Reply 16):

IMHO somebody letting in light during a 15 hour flight TPAC is no different than blaring their music loudly. It's not courteous to the rest of the plane

1) I don't think anyone is talking about such a flight.

2) If you don't like it, sit in the window and have control over it.
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galleypower
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:32 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 20):
Quoting rta (Reply 17):
I think the main benefit of this windows is during overnight daylight flights.

Er, say again ?

Leaving late afternoon US to EUR your are stiil in "night mode" but the sun comes up fast and makes it a dayflight.
 
kapnoc4389
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:36 am

I've flown on the 787 multiple times, although always with LOT and they darken the cabin but i was still able to control my own window after. Also I remember not being the only one, most of the plane was dark but there were a few windows either completely "open" and some just a bit.
 
N1120A
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:40 am

I think those who are saying you can still control it are correct. The FAs have master control, but I'm not sure they can lock out.
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rbavfan
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:01 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 20):
Quoting rta (Reply 17):
I think the main benefit of this windows is during overnight daylight flights.

Er, say again ?

If your flying over the arctic circle at least part of the year you will see daylight all night. Then it would be good as most are sleeping.
 
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:35 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
I think those who are saying you can still control it are correct. The FAs have master control, but I'm not sure they can lock out.

Definitely they can lock it
 
DALCE
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:54 am

I just had my first 787 experience last week with Arke (OR) flying daylight AMS-CUR and overnight back CUR-AMS.
The crew darkened the windows both ways. During the overnight flight I can imagine this, BUT during a daylight filght one should be able to look actually through the window...
Huge drawback on a further brilliant piece of engineering!

( and I'm an Airbus-guy   )
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ZSOFN
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:57 am

It's becoming commonplace. I flew with QR last week LHR-SIN and back - and all flights whether day or night (particularly daytime flight DOH-LHR) the cabin crew insisted on window shades being kept closed. Very frustrating not just because it's nice as an avgeek to look out the window, but also it's helpful in combating jetlag.
 
Eagleboy
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:06 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 19):
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you there. If I paid to get a window seat, and I want to look out the window, then so be it. Now, granted, I at least have enough sense to look around (if the window shades around me are closed) to make sure I'm not going to completely disturb anyone sleeping nearby...and if opening the shade will, then I'll raise it/undim it just below the point where it will be a nuisance.
Whatever happened to politely asking someone to lower their shade...or if it's ok that you recline onto their lap? Common courtesy has gone out the window...

Like so many things in life we have to cater for the idiot 5-10% of the population....car licenses, etc etc
 
UALWN
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:09 am

I always choose window seats. Guess why? Because I like to look out the window. During take-off, during landing and during cruise. Window and airmap are enough entertainment system for me. I'd assume that lots of people who choose window seats do so for the same reason.

While I'm still very much looking forward to my first 787 flight (I was scheduled to fly on a UA 787 when the FAA mandated the grounding, and haven't had a chance yet since then)l, these policies would clearly bother me.
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:13 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
It allows significantly more choice for passengers.

What choice do passengers have when the crew lock them shut?   
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N1120A
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:29 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 31):
What choice do passengers have when the crew lock them shut?

Shut?

Quoting UALWN (Reply 30):
I always choose window seats. Guess why? Because I like to look out the window. During take-off, during landing and during cruise. Window and airmap are enough entertainment system for me. I'd assume that lots of people who choose window seats do so for the same reason.

While I'm still very much looking forward to my first 787 flight (I was scheduled to fly on a UA 787 when the FAA mandated the grounding, and haven't had a chance yet since then)l, these policies would clearly bother me.

First part - definitely.

Second part - honestly, even at full darkness, you get a very good view. Not good for photography, but a cool effect on the clouds.
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scbriml
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:35 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 32):
Shut?

Yes, shut. As opposed to open. If it makes you happy, dimmed rather than clear.   

So anyway, regardless of the word used, how much choice do passengers have when the crew lock the window opacitiy?
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N1120A
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:38 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 33):
So anyway, regardless of the word used, how much choice do passengers have when the crew lock the window opacitiy?

Hey, it is a difference. Even if they lock the window opacity, it is a damn sight better than when they slam the window shades shut.
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johnclipper
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:47 am

I just flew a QR A350. The A350 in biz class has conventional windows but the blinds are controlled up or down with buttons. After departure, the crew lowered all the blinds and remained that way for the entire flight even thought it was a night flight and the sun was never out. There was no override. To me, I will take a 787 over the A350 because at least you can see a little out of the window.
"Flown every aircraft since the Wright Flyer" (guys, if you take this literally, then you need to get a life...)
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:02 am

Absolutely useless feature that will ruin the joy of flying for me and many other fellow a.nutters! Unfortunately the 77X will have the e-tint windows too.   I hope Boeing will make them optional in the future.


Quoting 777way (Reply 6):
Can airlines order conventional blinds over this gimmik?

Unfortunately traditional window shades are not an option for the 787.


Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 7):
This, for me, is the biggest drawback to flying the 787.

   In my opinion it's the only drawback, I'd much rather be on any old airplane than a 787 because of these stupid windows.


Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
Anyway, I don't think it is an option. I have heard, however, that the 7810 and the 777X will have conventional blinds. Unfortunate.

I've heard the opposite, I hope you're right.


Quoting UALWN (Reply 30):
I always choose window seats. Guess why? Because I like to look out the window. During take-off, during landing and during cruise. Window and airmap are enough entertainment system for me. I'd assume that lots of people who choose window seats do so for the same reason.

Well said.


Quoting UALWN (Reply 30):
While I'm still very much looking forward to my first 787 flight (I was scheduled to fly on a UA 787 when the FAA mandated the grounding, and haven't had a chance yet since then)l, these policies would clearly bother me.

Bother is an understatement in my opinion!


We've had a long discussion about this topic here...

787 Dimmable Window And The Sun (by duncan16 Aug 8 2013 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2015-09-24 03:27:27]
 
N1120A
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:08 am

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 36):

I've heard the opposite, I hope you're right.

Why? I'd rather have dim windows than slammed shut. It is also much safer to have them open.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:23 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 37):

Why? I'd rather have dim windows than slammed shut. It is also much safer to have them open.


The e-tint windows are good only if the pax have full control over them, unfortunately that's not and will never be the case, cabin crew can always override the pax, I also think as the planes age these windows will malfunction just like the IFE systems, the last thing I want is to sit by a window stuck on the darkest setting on a scenic flight. When it's a safety issue the flight attendants instruct the pax to open the windows anyway.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:44 am

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 9):
However, BA's didn't fully go clear until after the main gears touched down when I flew LHR-AUS.

This was my wife's big gripe about the 787 on the same route, brilliant clear skies over the USA on a day flight and the crew over rode the window clontrols

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
Quoting 777way (Reply 6):
Can airlines order conventional blinds over this gimmik?

How is it a gimmick? It allows significantly more choice for passengers.

What a choice: Dark or Dark, that's no more choice than a North Korean election
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:20 pm

Quoting johnclipper (Reply 35):
To me, I will take a 787 over the A350 because at least you can see a little out of the window.

Correct. While it's not really possible to take pictures trough the darkened windows, it's still possible to see trough them. So I'd take the 787 over any other aircraft when flying in J or Y+. Y would be a different story - but it has nothing to do with the windows or shades.
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nws2002
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:34 pm

Quoting KPDX (Reply 15):
Strange. I flew a UAL 788 in June, and the cabin crew kept dimming the windows enroute, but I was able to undim it every time without issue...
Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
I think those who are saying you can still control it are correct. The FAs have master control, but I'm not sure they can lock out.

I'm a FA and we've been given zero guidance on 787 window dimming and when to lock it out.

Think of the options like how the driver can control car windows. Usually they can open or close the windows, but they can also lock the passengers out of making changes. I will admit it is very nice to dim all the windows on long night flights and even on the ground in warm places. In other aircraft we go row by row and ask passengers to close shades or close them ourselves on the ground.
 
tonystan
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:40 pm

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 38):
The e-tint windows are good only if the pax have full control over them, unfortunately that's not and will never be the case, cabin crew can always override the pax, I also think as the planes age these windows will malfunction just like the IFE systems, the last thing I want is to sit by a window stuck on the darkest setting on a scenic flight. When it's a safety issue the flight attendants instruct the pax to open the windows anyway.

The windows are designed so that in the event of a technical failure they will revert to full clear.
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TheRedBaron
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:52 pm

Yet again the 787 dim windows, thread comes along ...

If you like looking outside, avoid the 787
If you like to see outside on your WINDOW seat buy a dozen eye masks and give them away to complaining pax that like to sleep while avoiding the incredible views outside.

End of thread. LOL

TRB
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modernArt
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:59 pm

Remember the good ol' days when the flight crew would say something like "those of you on the left side aircraft should have a pretty good view of the Grand Canyon momentarily"? Many aisle folks would pop up and peer over the neighbors, etc. The wonderment is gone, buried in our electronic devices.

What's funny is - or maybe ironic; some of same folks that insist on a darkened cabin throughout in daytime are probably the same folks who insist on having an office that has floor to ceiling……..windows.  
 
Brunopt
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:04 pm

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 41):
I will admit it is very nice to dim all the windows on long night flights and even on the ground in warm places

I never understand why is so nice, so cool or so useful to dim all the windows during night flights, as far as I know at night the sun and the very bright environment is not present. During the long daytime flights make more sense to have some periods of "sleeping time" to everyone.
 
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:08 pm

A) How is it rude or discourteous to let light in? If it's light out, I want my body clock to be awake and I want to look out. I always choose a window seat because nothing is as unnatural or uncomfortable as sitting in an aluminum tube during what should be broad daylight when everyone has the windows closed. There's nothing rude about it.

B) Airlines often request that passengers close window shades to keep the cabin cool on the ground. It would make sense to give the crew the ability to do this automatically so as not to have to ask passengers to comply. However, in the air - assuming you have working PACKs - I can't see why it would matter. Perhaps just asking politely if there's a reason for the dimming and/or if they could be released to the pax control would take care of the matter.
 
solarflyer22
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:13 pm

This has happened to me as well even on flights with conventional shades because the cabin crew closes most of them while the plane is on the ground. I love to look out so I find this super annoying. It also surprised me that on WN they didn't open them for takeoff.
 
Junction
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:50 am

RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:54 pm

Quoting 747-600X (Reply 46):
Perhaps just asking politely if there's a reason for the dimming and/or if they could be released to the pax control would take care of the matter.

Exactly! It seems people would rather just complain about it here after the fact instead of proactively dealing with it when it happens. Just speak up and ask if it can be made brighter so you can see out.
 
EK345
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:12 pm

RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:07 pm

Quoting 747-600X (Reply 46):
A) How is it rude or discourteous to let light in? If it's light out, I want my body clock to be awake and I want to look out. I always choose a window seat because nothing is as unnatural or uncomfortable as sitting in an aluminum tube during what should be broad daylight when everyone has the windows closed. There's nothing rude about it.

You obviously haven't flown on an afternoon departure 14-hour TransPac flight out of California heading to Asia. 14 hours of daylight... and yes, I need the cabin to be completely dark at some point during the 14-hours of continuous sunlight. If your shade is up - you better bet I'm ringing my call button to mention it to the cabin crew.

EK345
"and miles to go before I sleep..."

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