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seahawk
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:59 am

People on the plane want to sleep, work, read or use the IFE, the light from the window is disturbing for them. Shades should be closed during the entire flight on every flight.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:40 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 150):
People on the plane want to sleep, work, read or use the IFE, the light from the window is disturbing for them. Shades should be closed during the entire flight on every flight.

Good, then I'm turning on my reading light and leaving it on just for you...
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:36 pm

Quoting enzedder (Reply 147):
some people here act like spoilt and selfish little kids. you might pay more to pick a seat next to a window. but it doesnt give you contol over the window. it just entitles you to sit next to it. end of story.

Ill fly a cargo plane next time.... since I don't have any rights nor can touch anything !! LOL

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 149):
Both sides are being hypocritical when calling the other selfish. The only fair solution I see is for the cabin crew to not enforce a window shade policy at all, and hand out eyeshades for those who want to sleep.

100% agree...

Quoting seahawk (Reply 150):
People on the plane want to sleep, work, read or use the IFE, the light from the window is disturbing for them. Shades should be closed during the entire flight on every flight.

Maybe people on the plane also want to look outside or go to the Restroom.... MAYBE.

TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
EK345
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:29 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 128):
Maybe we need a separate windowless cabin for those who like to stay in the dark..

Yes - it's called First/Business class  

EK345
"and miles to go before I sleep..."
 
Max Q
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:35 am

Funny the level of contention over this issue, i'm a firm believer in being able to look out of the window when I want to and
I don't think that enjoyment should be taken away from anyone. I do think it's age related.


I suspect that it's mostly younger people that like to have the shades closed all the time so they can concentrate on
the virtual reality they prefer on their phones.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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EK345
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:23 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 154):
I suspect that it's mostly younger people that like to have the shades closed all the time so they can concentrate on
the virtual reality they prefer on their phones.

Or maybe to sleep and/or watch a movie. Last time I went a movie theater they dimmed the lights to make it dark. hmmm...

EK345
"and miles to go before I sleep..."
 
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seahawk
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:00 am

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 152):

Maybe people on the plane also want to look outside or go to the Restroom.... MAYBE.

You can turn on the reading light if you need to get up and the dimmed light in the cabin should be enough to find the toilet.

For the rest it seems like the shades closed policy is being enforced on more and more flights.
 
Passedv1
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:46 am

My very first flight over the continental US was when I was 15 on an AA DC-10 from HNL-DFW. It was super-cool to be able to actually see something out the window (instead of just the pacific ocean). Well, being a red-eye, approaching TOD going into DFW here comes the window-shade police. I probably didn't hear her at first because of my headphones, but that ***** slammed my hand in the process of closing the shade. I was too young to say anything...if it were now I think it would have been different...anyway, having to sit in the dark during most of the approach really ruined the flight for me.

Just because YOU fly the route every other week, and just because you will be here next week too and the flying experience to you has diminished to being the equivalent of sitting in traffic on an interstate doesn't mean there aren't people on-board experiencing their first possibly once in a lifetime flight experience.

[Edited 2015-09-29 00:47:35]
 
hb88
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:38 am

This whole thngs just baffles me. I fly a lot, mainly in business, long haul. Usually with BA or one of the ME carriers. As sure as eggs once you're up off the ground soaring through a beautiful sunlit sky, whammo, we're suddenly all sitting in a darkened, pitch-black tube. I feel like a freaking mole. You drop things on the floor, unable to find them, you get tunnel vision staring at a bright video screen in darkness for hours.... So much for body-clock adjustment etc.

On flights now, I simply keep my shades firmly up. If anyone puts them down while I'm away from my seat, I put them back up. If anyone has asked me to put them down, I've politely pointed out the eyeshades in their amenity kit.

In short, you want fly in the the dark, wear eye-shades. Don't compel the rest of your fellow-passengers to sit in pitch blackness for 10 hours. That is rude beyond compare.

FAs love dark cabins because it keeps pax quiet and encourages them to sleep (regardless of the time of day). So less hassle. Another odd 'rule' is that the further toward the pointy end, the darker it gets. My first-class trips have inevitably been in pitch darkness, many business flights and not so many economy class flights.

It's utterly strange. Do people put black sunshades up in their cars? Shut their windows shutters at home to keep their house in darkness 24/7? Why do they get on a plane for 12hrs and want to sit in darkness?
 
Max Q
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:42 am

Quoting hb88 (Reply 158):
In short, you want fly in the the dark, wear eye-shades. Don't compel the rest of your fellow-passengers to sit in pitch blackness for 10 hours. That is rude beyond compare.

Well said.

Quoting hb88 (Reply 158):
FAs love dark cabins because it keeps pax quiet and encourages them to sleep (regardless of the time of day). So less hassle.

That is very accurate, i'm sure they love the 787 where they can impose the dark cabin on everyone whether they like it or not.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
CXB77L
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:53 pm

Quoting EK345 (Reply 155):
Or maybe to sleep and/or watch a movie. Last time I went a movie theater they dimmed the lights to make it dark. hmmm...

Last time I checked, an aircraft cabin is not a cinema or a hotel.

Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 157):
Just because YOU fly the route every other week, and just because you will be here next week too and the flying experience to you has diminished to being the equivalent of sitting in traffic on an interstate doesn't mean there aren't people on-board experiencing their first possibly once in a lifetime flight experience.

Absolutely. People who say there's nothing to see out there are missing the point. Regardless of the route, this may be somebody's first ever flight, or their first ever flight over this particular region, and they want to look out.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 159):
i'm sure they love the 787 where they can impose the dark cabin on everyone whether they like it or not.

Well, the good thing about the 787 is that even at the darkest setting, the windows are still relatively transparent and it is still possible to see outside in broad daylight.
Boeing 777 fanboy
 
CXfirst
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:25 pm

When I flew the QR 787, we had the windows locked to full open for take off and landing, which is great for safety.

The crew also dimmed all the windows, but didn't lock them, which I thought was great as well, especially on our 2am departure from DOH. With conventional windows, some passengers would fall asleep with shades up (as it was dark), but the cabin would be flooded with light through those open windows when most still wanted to sleep. That wasn't a problem on the 787.

As I could override, I opened my window to settings 3 and 4, which I believe was a suitable level. Still gave me a clear view without letting any significant light in.

I for one like to be courteous to other passengers, and in a traditional shaded flight, I would keep the shade down, even if I would have liked to see some of the views. I found the 787 perfect, still had my views, without impeding others, and could watch IFE myself and still have a view without glare.

I liked how QR did it, no locking out, and would be equally happy if they had for instance locked it to maximum brightness at level 3. But even then, I still could see very well at the darkest setting.

Quoting 777way (Reply 6):

Can airlines order conventional blinds over this gimmik?

Why would they want to?

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 19):
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you there. If I paid to get a window seat, and I want to look out the window, then so be it.

At most airlines, you would be assigned that seat, and even if you chose it yourself, you did not pay for that specific seat, you paid for a seat on that flight. And even if you did pre-pay for the seat, most terms and conditions still don't guarantee you that seat.

-CXfirst
 
ikramerica
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:34 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 149):
Totally agreed. One of the rare joys of flying is being able to see the earth from above the clouds. Even if it's a long trans-Pacific or trans-Atlantic flight, there are still sights to see - cloud formations, ships, islands, the curvature of the earth, the wings and engines, and, at night, the stars, and the moon. I can never sleep on planes partly because there's so much going on outside that I don't want to miss. Why watch a movie when you can do that just as easily on the ground?

For 10 hours? You need to stare out the window for 10 hours? Because if you aren't staring out the window for 10 hours, then what you are really doing is keeping it up so that you can occasionally check outside, like checking a watch. So that mild convenience of being able to check outside for a minute here are there supersedes the desires of 300 other people.

I love flying. I love looking out. I also want to get some sleep. There is a balance. If you want to look out during dark time, go stretch your legs and look out the galley like most other people do and have done for decades. You get to glance out once in a while, and don't disturb the entire plane (though you might wake a sleeper in your row).

As for "I am by the window so I get to control the shade..." that is not the case. The window seat actually only assures you nobody has to step over you to use the restroom. That's what the window seat provides. The windows are part of a public accommodation. They are owned and controlled by the airline.

Quoting hb88 (Reply 158):
On flights now, I simply keep my shades firmly up. If anyone puts them down while I'm away from my seat, I put them back up. If anyone has asked me to put them down, I've politely pointed out the eyeshades in their amenity kit.

So now because you are a jaded flyer who has stopped being concerned for your fellow pax because you fly so much, you think that makes you right?

And "politely" telling people to put something on their face so you can be selfish isn't polite. It's passive aggressive, because you are banking on that person not making a stink about it because you are being "polite."
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
CXB77L
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:46 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 162):
So that mild convenience of being able to check outside for a minute here are there supersedes the desires of 300 other people.

And what makes you think the rest of the plane wants the window shades closed? What about those who are indifferent to having it open or closed? Or those who want them open but are told by the passive-aggressive crew and passengers to close them?

I've been on flights where the window shades down policy wasn't enforced at all, and passengers were left to their own devices as to whether to leave the window open or closed. What happened is that at least half of the windows stayed up.
Boeing 777 fanboy
 
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smittythepirate
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:44 pm

I find the monitors in the seat to be pretty bright, should I also make sure all of those are off as well for the people beside me or behind?
www.jbweather.com
 
traindoc
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:38 am

FYI, Just flew UA 139, DEN to NRT, on the 25th. Window shades useable the entire flight with no overide by the crew.
 
ACDC8
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:42 pm

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 161):
At most airlines, you would be assigned that seat, and even if you chose it yourself, you did not pay for that specific seat, you paid for a seat on that flight. And even if you did pre-pay for the seat, most terms and conditions still don't guarantee you that seat.

If you pay an extra fee for seat selection, you are paying extra for a service. If the airline, for whatever reasons, does not give you the seat you paid money specifically to select - you are entitled for a refund of that fee.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
hb88
Posts: 761
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:58 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 162):
Quoting hb88 (Reply 158):
"On flights now, I simply keep my shades firmly up. If anyone puts them down while I'm away from my seat, I put them back up. If anyone has asked me to put them down, I've politely pointed out the eyeshades in their amenity kit. "

So now because you are a jaded flyer who has stopped being concerned for your fellow pax because you fly so much, you think that makes you right?

And "politely" telling people to put something on their face so you can be selfish isn't polite. It's passive aggressive, because you are banking on that person not making a stink about it because you are being "polite."

Well that obviously touched a raw nerve...

No, I'm someone who flies a lot who doesn't like being forced to sit in the dark for hours on end. I'm sorry if my travelling in various classes apparently upset you. Tough. You presume that I don't have any valid an opinion because I travel a lot? No comment needed there. As for being jaded - it's precisely because I am not jaded that I want to see outside. I fly a lot. I'm a pilot. I'm an aviation enthusiast. I don't like being forced to sit in the dark. What part of that do you object to? If you're sitting in the same cabin, your point of view is that you refuse to use eyeshades and you insist on everyone (and I mean everyone) close their windowblinds?

I think we are from different planets.

As for "stopped being concerned"? Where do you get off assuming to speak for my concerns?

I am concerned for my fellow pax - those who want to sit in the dark (use eyeshades) and those who want natural light/visibility (open a window-blind).

I don't quite understand how keeping window shades up is selfish (of course there are transition times when it's better to keep the blinds down - local am etc). To the contrary I think insisting on everyone without exception sit in pitch blackness because you can't be bothered wearing eyeshades is pretty damned selfish.

If I understand you correctly, you think a planeload of passengers should be forced to sit in the dark because, uh, what? that's where you lose me. It's selfish for them to want to have some light and it's unreasonable for those who want darkness to use eyeshades? Interesting.

As for your passive-aggressive suggestion, no comment needed. You're not in any position to know anything whatsoever about my behaviour and how I communicate with people.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 162):
I love flying. I love looking out. I also want to get some sleep.

Then I politely suggest you use eyeshades and not demand that every single other passenger sits in pitch blackness to suit you.
 
copter808
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:00 pm

There IS a solution for this endless problem.

Let's just remove all the shades! I'm sure those who want to sleep will find a way that works for them. Those who want it light, will have their light.

Many here are ASSUMING that because the shades are closed it's because the passenger wants it that way. In MANY cases, I have heard the CREW request they be closed. If I fall asleep with my shade open, it miraculously closes while I'm sleeping.

Also seems crews are getting lazy in not requesting shades be open for takeoff and landing. This becomes a safety issue.
 
ACDC8
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RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:16 pm

This is the way I see it. If one wants to sleep, one can do that at home, in a hotel, at the airport, the the cab to the airport - numerous places. The same goes for those who want to watch TV on their tablet - the places to do such are endless.

How many places can you watch the world carelessly drift underneath you while flying at 35000ft? One.

It's a real shame that some simply have forgotten what it is like to be completely enthralled by something so magical and at times, inspiring.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
copter808
Posts: 1384
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:14 pm

RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:22 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 169):
It's a real shame that some simply have forgotten what it is like to be completely enthralled by something so magical and at times, inspiring.

Yes, it is. How many have never seen the icecap, beautiful mountains and deserts, tropical islands, northern or southern lights, nighttime thunderstorms, and many other natural wonders.
 
rugger
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:03 pm

RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:54 pm

Quoting copter808 (Reply 170):
Yes, it is. How many have never seen the icecap, beautiful mountains and deserts, tropical islands, northern or southern lights, nighttime thunderstorms, and many other natural wonders.

Well, then you have your "Been there, done that...." people who want the windows darkened without regard for how someone else feels about it.
 
Max Q
Posts: 8634
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: UA Forcing 787 Window "shades" To Be Blackened

Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:37 am

Quoting copter808 (Reply 168):
In MANY cases, I have heard the CREW request they be closed. If I fall asleep with my shade open, it miraculously closes while I'm sleeping.

That is probably the biggest factor here.



Flight attendants like sleeping passengers, 'compliant' as a poster put it in an earlier post.



A sleeping passenger doesn't place too many demands..
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg

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