ojas
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Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:11 pm

Effective 02DEC, AI will operate 3 weekly flights DEL and SFO

AI 103 DEL SFO We, Fr, Su
AI 104 SFO DEL We, Fr, Su

Aircraft: B777-200LR (3 class configuration)

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/air-i...an-francisco-on-december-2-1223546
Great leaders don't tell you what to do ... they show you how it's done!
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:58 pm

This sounds like another nice way to lose money..

The market is likely there but given AI's cost base it just is not likely going to have a chance of making these numbers add up to profit.

Good luck to them though.
 
S75752
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:27 pm

There we go!

 

I knew it was a matter of time! But, let's wait and see if they actually do it...

When they do (if they do) I'm willing to bet it will be better off than ORD at least for sure. But that doesn't necessarily mean profitable.
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:33 pm

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 1):
The market is likely there but given AI's cost base it just is not likely going to have a chance of making these numbers add up to profit.

Not knowing what AI's costs actually are or how they stack up again the ME3 costs, but if the market from the Bay area to Delhi or even other connections in India is there, this new route offers travelers a huge time/distance advantage over EK and the others.

If AI's membership in *A is any help at all, the other *A connections are just as good as EK's depending on the length of connection time in FRA or IST. Having back-up options is always a nice alternative when things go wrong.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sfo-del...-dxb-del,+sfo-fra-del,+sfo-ist-del
 
a380787
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:35 pm

I'm glad AI came to their senses and picked DEL instead of BLR, which made very little sense to me.
 
airDFW
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:38 pm

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
AI 103 DEL SFO We, Fr, Su
AI 104 SFO DEL We, Fr, Su

How come it is same days on both directions?
 
N867DA
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:45 pm

Quoting airDFW (Reply 5):

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
AI 103 DEL SFO We, Fr, Su
AI 104 SFO DEL We, Fr, Su

How come it is same days on both directions?

It may be due to crossing the international date line. Eastbound flights (Asia to West Coast) get back a lot of time!
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
qf002
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:48 pm

Quoting airDFW (Reply 5):
How come it is same days on both directions?

Why wouldn't it be?
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:51 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 3):
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sfo-del...-dxb-del,+sfo-fra-del,+sfo-ist-del

Forgot a very important one especially with Chinese aviation growing at a rapid pace:

SFO-PEK-DEL - I think it has to route around DAC though to avoid Himalayas.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
TC957
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:58 pm

At least the 77L is getting fully stretched on this route as it's designed to be. Now just hope AI market the route well, get some corporate contracts and make a success of it.
 
airDFW
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:05 pm

Quoting N867DA (Reply 6):
It may be due to crossing the international date line. Eastbound flights (Asia to West Coast) get back a lot of time!

Thanks. I thought it was AI P.R. Department doing their best.
 
 
S75752
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:11 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 9):

At least the 77L is getting fully stretched on this route as it's designed to be.

A great route for the 77L, though certainly has the potential for the 77W in time.
 
bharathkv
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:13 pm

It is good to see AI starting SFO, but starting the service in December is bad. Delhi weather in December is notorious for fog and delays with internal domestic flights. Any passenger connecting from Delhi to other locations might experience delays.
 
jetwet1
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:22 pm

Has anyone been able to pull fares yet ? I'm having no luck on the AI site.
 
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alex0easy
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:32 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 8):
SFO-PEK-DEL - I think it has to route around DAC though to avoid Himalayas.

It does. The domestic part follows PEK-KMG then onto DAC's direction then bound for India. No international flights go over Tibet.
I guess DEL-SFO would probably go west a little bit to avoid China entirely.
 
DXBDFWHGA
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:34 pm

I wish AI the best. IMO they're wasting their resources on this route.
 
S75752
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:42 pm

Quoting DXBDFWHGA (Reply 15):
I wish AI the best. IMO they're wasting their resources on this route.

Arguably they're wasting their resources on ORD, EWR, and JFK as well... Well, arguably they're wasting their resources on the grand majority of their routes based on profitability...
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:44 pm

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 13):

Yeah, I see no press release etc. from Air India. In fact read this quote from one article:

Quote:
Air India today announced three-days-a-week non-stop Delhi-San Francisco flight from December 2 even as some airline officials said this proposal was yet to be cleared by the airline's board of directors.

Also, they said an economic feasibility study has not been conducted till now though the airline went ahead with the announcement to coincide with World Tourism Day.

http://www.firstpost.com/business/ai...y-make-business-sense-2446846.html

If it is true, I'm surprised they aren't doing a BLR tag-on, as they do for every other US destination (ORD-DEL-HYD, EWR-BOM-AMD, JFK-DEL-BOM). Maybe since this info doesn't appear to be final, they will end up adding a tag-on......

[Edited 2015-09-27 07:46:19]
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:50 pm

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 17):
I'm surprised they aren't doing a BLR tag-on

Yet then they lose whatever non-stop advantage they might have had.
 
ojas
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:54 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 11):
A great route for the 77L, though certainly has the potential for the 77W in time.

It's a matter of time.

Quoting bharathkv (Reply 12):
It is good to see AI starting SFO, but starting the service in December is bad. Delhi weather in December is notorious for fog and delays with internal domestic flights. Any passenger connecting from Delhi to other locations might experience delays.

The visibility issues are more in the morning. AI is expected to leave DEL at 0200hrs ish and return at 1430hrs,

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 17):
Yeah, I see no press release etc. from Air India. In fact read this quote from one article:

It was announced by the AI CMD on twitter with a press release given to the media houses. This release is not hearsay or something like that.

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 17):
If it is true, I'm surprised they aren't doing a BLR tag-on, as they do for every other US destination (ORD-DEL-HYD, EWR-BOM-AMD, JFK-DEL-BOM). Maybe since this info doesn't appear to be final, they will end up adding a tag-on......

Well let the flight load on the GDS, it is almost certain that the BLR flight will be converted to a tag on to SFO DEL.
Great leaders don't tell you what to do ... they show you how it's done!
 
S75752
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:00 pm

Does it really matter much if BLR is a tag on when it's domestic? You'll still end up deplaning, going through customs, security, re-boarding with all the other connecting and domestic travelers.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:04 pm

What are the chances that DEL SFO makes it into the coveted 2% of AI routes that are profitable? http://indianexpress.com/article/bus...f-370-daily-ai-flights-profitable/
 
ojas
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:10 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 20):
Does it really matter much if BLR is a tag on when it's domestic? You'll still end up deplaning, going through customs, security, re-boarding with all the other connecting and domestic travelers.

AI has a bunch of international connectors. I can do immigration in ATQ and transfer DEL like transiting through any international hub. Upon arrival into India, customs and immigration at ATQ as well, not in DEL.
Great leaders don't tell you what to do ... they show you how it's done!
 
S75752
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:14 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 21):


What are the chances that DEL SFO makes it into the coveted 2% of AI routes that are profitable?

I doubt that it will (considering they can't even get shorthaul profitable!) but I think of the longhaul routes, it stands the chance of being one of the closest to profitable.
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:15 pm

I had forgotten they still had an Int. First Class. Does anyone know how it plays out for them,much take up?
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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Ytraveller
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:17 pm

Quoting ojas (Reply 19):
It was announced by the AI CMD on twitter with a press release given to the media houses. This release is not hearsay or something like that.

Well then, best of luck to them. I really hope this works, but we can't be too optimistic....

The market is definitely there. The fact that Saravanaa Bhavan has 2 locations in San Jose area should tell all. However, will Indians choose AI over EK, given AI's reputation among them? Also are AI's fares on their nonstop USA flights decent?

[Edited 2015-09-27 08:26:01]
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:20 pm

Quoting airDFW (Reply 10):
Quoting N867DA (Reply 6):It may be due to crossing the international date line. Eastbound flights (Asia to West Coast) get back a lot of time!
Thanks. I thought it was AI P.R. Department doing their best.


All India - N.America flights depart India and arrive in N.America and also depart N.America on the same day, due to the time zones, irrespective of crossing the IDL or not....the return journey reflects the opposite,with +2 days between departure from N.Am and arrival in India
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:22 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 18):
Yet then they lose whatever non-stop advantage they might have had.

I don't think nonstop would've been appealing in the first place. 18 hours on the longest flight in the world...in Y...I personally wouldn't take this flight. Also a lot of VFR travelers from Bay Area will be going to MAA etc, and seamless connections via BLR might be difficult compared to the big hub DEL.
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:25 pm

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 26):

All India - N.America flights depart India and arrive in N.America and also depart N.America on the same day, due to the time zones, irrespective of crossing the IDL or not....the return journey reflects the opposite,with +2 days between departure from N.Am and arrival in India

Actually, some India - USA flights (e.g. UA's flights) depart just before midnight and arrive the following morning. And USA - India flights don't arrive +2 days, only +1 day.
 
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Tomassjc
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:27 pm

I wonder if the timing of the announcement has anything to do with the Indian Prime Minister being in the Bay Area this weekend?

Tomas SJC
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Gr8Circle
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:31 pm

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 28):
Actually, some India - USA flights (e.g. UA's flights) depart just before midnight and arrive the following morning.

Yeah, that's right.....I was thinking more on the lines of the AI and 9W flights which reflect the same day west bound.....it all depends on the departure time from India of course....

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 28):
And USA - India flights don't arrive +2 days, only +1 day.


Used to be +2 back in the day when they would take a halt in Europe......even now, the late evening departures from N.America reach India +1 day, around 2200 - 2300....almost like +2 days by the time you clear customs and immigration and emerge from the airport 
 
reality
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:32 pm

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 29):

I wonder if the timing of the announcement has anything to do with the Indian Prime Minister being in the Bay Area this weekend?

Apparently so. (Or perhaps just a coincidence.)

"NEW DELHI: On the day Prime Minister Narendra Modi is in Silicon Valley, Air India has announced a nonstop flight between Delhi and San Francisco from December 2. This will be the only nonstop link between India and the west coast of America. TOI had reported last Monday that AI was planning this flight which will be announced when the PM is in west coast. "

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...ecember-2/articleshow/49126136.cms

[Edited 2015-09-27 08:43:14]
 
jfk777
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:50 pm

This is going to be a total disaster. Air India should go totally 787 including 787-9/10. Air India used to fly to LAX but stopped about 10 years ago, there was a good reason. California is not a friend to AI.
 
S75752
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:58 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 32):
California is not a friend to AI.

And based on their profits, is anyone a friend to AI?

Last November, 361 of their flights were total disasters. Yet they carry on, so they may as well fly somewhere that shows some kind of new promise for being less of a total disaster.

AI does need some serious changes on every level, and that includes finding some solution that does work... But when nothing works for them, what is there to do?
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:03 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 23):
I think of the longhaul routes, it stands the chance of being one of the closest to profitable.

I very seriously doubt that. Again, high-value customers avoid AI like the plague.

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 25):
The fact that Saravanaa Bhavan has 2 locations in San Jose area should tell all.

If Saravanaa Bhavan caters for AI, that would make me consider flying them  However, AI does not try to impress with its catering if trip reports are correct. The F class menu is an old sheet of smudgy printed paper with ripped corners.
 
S75752
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:11 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 34):

I very seriously doubt that. Again, high-value customers avoid AI like the plague.

Closest to profitable. Not profitable.

In this one case, unlike ORD and EWR, and just about all of their other routes, they fly something that nobody else does, and is not made somewhat redundant by overflight.

Hence why I say that it will be one of the closest to profitable... But definitely not profitable. I don't think that anything will be very profitable for them at this point.
 
Birdwatching
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:19 pm

I flew in Air India's 777 a couple of weeks ago (only domestic BOM-DEL, the flight that later continued to JFK).
The cabin in Y was an absolute mess, half of the IFE controls were broken (I had an almost empty cabin so I did some exploring) and the seats generally in terrible shape, the rest of the cabin dirty, worn and uncomfortable too.

I would absolutely HATE to be in this for 18 hours, unless it's a really empty cabin with lots of space to walk around and switch to a better seat.

So if I had to travel from SFO to DEL I would definitely go for a 1-stop solution with a nice cabin and onboard product unless AI was significantly cheaper.

Soren   
All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:20 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 24):
I had forgotten they still had an Int. First Class. Does anyone know how it plays out for them,much take up?

Well, based on this quote I don't think it's doing too good for them:

Quote:
Initially, the airline plans to offer a three-class service to San Francisco. The Air India management is also considering reconfiguring its Boeing 777-200LRs through the next few months, doing away with the first class and increasing the economy class seats.

http://www.rediff.com/business/repor...non-stop-on-air-india/20150927.htm
 
jetwet1
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:26 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 24):
I had forgotten they still had an Int. First Class. Does anyone know how it plays out for them,much take up?

From what I have heard, it's mostly politicians and the family of the pilots.



Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 34):
I very seriously doubt that. Again, high-value customers avoid AI like the plague.

Exactly, as I posted in the other thread, the people I know avoid AI, they would rather one stop somewhere than have to deal with AI on the ground when something goes pear shaped, these are not Y pax, but J and F.

I have a feeling this will end up much like PK's old ORD-BCN route where J tickets were the bargain of the year, if you could put up with the BS.
 
JOYA380B747
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:34 pm

I absolutely knew this new route was going to be made official by AI soon after Modi made his Silicon Valley tour. It was all part of the plan I guess to make this all happen at the same time.

Cheers to all citizens of India for a new channel to lose taxpayer money!   
India's biggest loss w.r.t global aviation (so far) - Being an Australasia-Europe stopover.
 
S75752
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:46 pm

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 36):

So if I had to travel from SFO to DEL I would definitely go for a 1-stop solution with a nice cabin and onboard product unless AI was significantly cheaper.

Are they really worse than our legacy carriers?


Let me clarify. I don't know why they continue to operate ORD or EWR or JFK. I don't know why they continue to operate anything. It's clear that profit isn't their goal. However, in a sea of stupid decisions they make, I at least praise them for finally making a less-stupid decision.

Deep within, I'd like to think it's a step toward making a smart decision... But in their position, is there even any smart decisions left for them to make?

That said, I think that SFO will last for as long as their other long hauls do, since they've already demonstrated that despite persistent losses they're going to stick to it all stubbornly. Of course, their main focus will probably be Y passengers and J-class time-sensitive or deal-seeking travelers, as well as businss travellers whose companies decide to take advantage of the lower J fares. The #1 threat to that I can see would be if/when DY decides to split one or two of their BKK's in to a XXX-DEL/BOM-BKK with a good connection timing to/from the USA, which would probably take AI's routes in to low enough factors to make them reconsider long haul entirely, and probably make India longhaul from the US and Europe to those destinations a mess for just about everyone else except the ME3 in the process.
 
JOYA380B747
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:46 pm

Quoting DXBDFWHGA (Reply 15):
I wish AI the best. IMO they're wasting their resources on this route.

At least a lot better than a 77L lying in the hangar stripped off its spares, or doing random DEL-CCU/BLR runs. If you're going to lose money, do so in style!   
India's biggest loss w.r.t global aviation (so far) - Being an Australasia-Europe stopover.
 
DTWLAX
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:56 pm

Quoting airDFW (Reply 5):

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
AI 103 DEL SFO We, Fr, Su
AI 104 SFO DEL We, Fr, Su

How come it is same days on both directions?

Flights departing from India during the first half of a day land in USA on the same day and depart from USA on the same day.

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 28):
Actually, some India - USA flights (e.g. UA's flights) depart just before midnight and arrive the following morning. And USA - India flights don't arrive +2 days, only +1 day.

They will arrive +2 days if they were to depart late evening from the west coast of USA
 
RemoFlyer
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:59 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 35):
Closest to profitable. Not profitable.

In this one case, unlike ORD and EWR, and just about all of their other routes, they fly something that nobody else does, and is not made somewhat redundant by overflight.

Nobody else flies direct ORD DEL or JFK DELor BHX DEL or SYD DEL.

Given the longer stage length of SFO DEL (hence, higher fuel costs), 3 days a week flight (hence, significantly low yields on business travel) and the lower economy seat count on 77L compared to 77W (hence, lower revenue) - this route is guaranteed to be the lowest performing US route. Currently EWR BOM is the lowest revenue generating US flight, followed by JFK DEL, followed by ORD DEL.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:05 pm

Quoting RemoFlyer (Reply 43):
Currently EWR BOM is the lowest revenue generating US flight, followed by JFK DEL, followed by ORD DEL.

Conversely, EWR BOM works wonders for UA, or so I hear.
 
Ammad
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:13 pm

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
AI 103 DEL SFO We, Fr, Su
AI 104 SFO DEL We, Fr, Su

Any idea for Arrival and departure timings?
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:13 pm

If at first you don't succeed...
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:20 pm

Quoting Ammad (Reply 45):
Any idea for Arrival and departure timings?

This is all that's said so far:

Quote:
The Delhi-San Francisco flight will have a convenient early morning departure and arrival. The return flight will have an early morning departure from San Francisco and arrive in Delhi in the afternoon.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...ecember-2/articleshow/49126136.cms
 
behramjee
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:28 pm

anyone have an idea what the exact schedule looks like please?
 
Nimish
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RE: Official: Air India Announces DEL SFO From 02DEC

Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:51 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 48):
anyone have an idea what the exact schedule looks like please?

This is AI we're talking about, and a route announced under pressure from the govt. of India. I'd be surprised if the flights are loaded even a month in advance of the 02-Dec start date.
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Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos