jfk777
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Pope's AA 777

Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:06 pm

Does any one have information about special modifications for Pope Francis ?


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[Edited 2015-09-27 23:25:03 by moderators]
 
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N62NA
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:22 pm

Do they have any special modifications?

Am trying to see the registration on TV now, but all I can see is it's a 772 and ship number is 7Asomething.
 
jb1087xna
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:33 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Thread starter):

The Alitalia bird that brought him here supposedly had no modifications.
 
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N62NA
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:35 pm

They're doing an extreme closeup of the pope sitting in the plane. It's a Flagship Suite version (thank goodness) and not the new non-F version of the AA 772.
 
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cjg225
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:42 pm

Out of curiosity... wouldn't they normally have taken the flags down by now?
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N62NA
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:44 pm

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 4):
Out of curiosity... wouldn't they normally have taken the flags down by now?

I noticed that too. Maybe they're going to leave them up and they'll just blow off at some point on the takeoff roll.
 
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cjg225
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:45 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 5):
I noticed that too. Maybe they're going to leave them up and they'll just blow off at some point on the takeoff roll.

Considering that'd be an ingestion risk, I'd hope not.
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jb1087xna
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:49 pm

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 4):
Out of curiosity... wouldn't they normally have taken the flags down by now?

On the Cuba to US leg, they left the flags out for display until right before initiating takeoff roll.
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:59 pm

Were any mods done to the plane for the Pope?

TWA used to modify a couple of planes (727, L-1011,747) for use by the Pope. Photos here:

http://statehistoricalsocietyofmisso...org/cdm/ref/collection/twa/id/5947
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Max752
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:06 am

No mods. I can all but confirm that. I'd imagine that's one clean and polished bird though!

I wonder if due to weight-and-balance if some of the Pope's travel partners he brought along will be forced to sit in certain seats during takeoff?

Does a 777-200 have weight-and-balance issues with such light loads?
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Max752
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:18 am

I do have an interesting little tid-bit to add to the Pope's flights on AA discussion.

American won't release much about his flights until the 772 has dumped the Pope and his staff safely at CIA and the aircraft is back in the air per an agreement with the US Secret Service. So, the reason most of the AA+Pope discussion is purely speculation is because the flights are classified until the charter ops are complete. However AA did release that the crew is from various U.S. crew bases including LGA, LAX, JFK, RDU, DFW, MIA, and ORD. AA even sent one of their 777 fleet managers or engineers to sit on all Papal flights if anything came up.


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trex8
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:22 am

Didn't the Alitalia A330 have some seat rows removed? I thought I saw a photo of the Pope on board and it looked like at least one if not 2 rows of seats had been removed in front of the one he was in. Or was that a photo from another trip?
 
n800nn
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:56 am

the American airlines jet is n776an
 
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notaxonrotax
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:47 am

Expensive modifications would not be in line with this pope's ideas, right?
A regular J-seat is probably more than enough for him!


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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:57 am

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 13):
Expensive modifications would not be in line with this pope's ideas, right?

Exactly, he requires nothing special except a lie flat seat to lay down in, otherwise I am sure he'd be the first to sit in coach, this is not a man who is mired in doctrine or fanfare, I am amazed at his humbleness, truly a refreshing person to be in charge of the church.

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 13):
A regular J-seat is probably more than enough for him!

That is the one thing that he does require, oh and a tempurpedic bed when he's staying someplace outside of his own bed.
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:04 am

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 13):
A regular J-seat is probably more than enough for him!

From the close-up images on the TV coverage, it appeared that he was in seat 1A or 2A and it was the AA Flagship Suite F product.
 
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:09 am

Quoting Max752 (Reply 10):
So, the reason most of the AA+Pope discussion is purely speculation is because the flights are classified until the charter ops are complete.

Can't find any details about this "Classified" mission?

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/n776an/
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N776AN
none
 
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notaxonrotax
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:14 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 15):
From the close-up images on the TV coverage, it appeared that he was in seat 1A or 2A and it was the AA Flagship Suite F product.

I am thinking J would have sufficed.....

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 14):
otherwise I am sure he'd be the first to sit in coach,

Agreed.


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Max752
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:18 am

Quoting covert (Reply 16):
Can't find any details about this "Classified" mission?

AA directly stated on employee site that the U.S. government, for the security of the Pope, would not allow AA to release the name of any of the crew selected or any modifications made to the aircraft till after the charter op ended.
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:20 am

Quoting Max752 (Reply 18):
AA directly stated on employee site that the U.S. government, for the security of the Pope, would not allow AA to release the name of any of the crew selected or any modifications made to the aircraft till after the charter op ended.

Sounds exactly like it should be.
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Cadet985
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:28 am

I'm wondering if when 776AN's service life ends, if it will end up in a museum or something.

It's not often that the Pope comes to the US.

I'm also wondering if this particular aircraft was chosen because of the tail number (776, and the US becoming a country in 1776...or is that just coincidence)?

Local media here in PHL was reporting that Doug Parker was aboard for the flight. I wonder if that's true.

Marc
 
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:31 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 20):
Local media here in PHL was reporting that Doug Parker was aboard for the flight. I wonder if that's true.

No.

Just no.

That would be the move classless move AA could do on a Papal charter, sending their CEO to mooch with the Pope or his team. Also, it would have made headlines among employee chatter.

No, Doug wasn't on the plane.
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bluejuice
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:39 am

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 17):
I am thinking J would have sufficed.....

Such a humble man would probably step off a NK or G4 flight and be all smiles.  
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Schweigend
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:05 am

Quoting trex8 (Reply 11):
Didn't the Alitalia A330 have some seat rows removed? I thought I saw a photo of the Pope on board and it looked like at least one if not 2 rows of seats had been removed in front of the one he was in. Or was that a photo from another trip?

If you are thinking of the same photo I saw, that was Pope Benedict XVI (Joseph Ratzinger) -- his red shoes were a giveaway. Still, AZ might have done some mods for Francis.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 20):
I'm wondering if when 776AN's service life ends, if it will end up in a museum or something.

N776AN was delivered in April or May 1999. Whether or not it goes to a museum could be debated, as N770AN was their first delivery of the -223ER.

AA could perhaps install a small commemorative plaque on a bulkhead near the cockpit, or even name the aircraft Franciscus, with the moniker painted near the nose. However, Francis is not a vain person and might demur at the idea.
 
AR385
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:39 am

Quoting Max752 (Reply 21):
That would be the move classless move AA could do on a Papal charter, sending their CEO to mooch with the Pope or his team. Also, it would have made headlines among employee chatter.

He would also need to be fluent in Spanish as Bergoglio does not speak English. It would be a pretty awkward meeting too. Why would an airline CEO, need to have a private meeting with the Pope? It´s not like AA (or US) gave the plane for free. It was a business transaction. If this happened, DL and UA would be TOMORROW, at the DOJ demanding an anti-trust investigation.

Now, to all those who are criticizing Bergoglio´s use of the F cabin, up until the day he left for Rome as a Cardinal to vote for Ratzinger´s successor, he always flew Y.

In contrast, as a Pope, Wojtyla would have an entire full size bed and small office installed on the planes he flew longhaul. As did Ratzinger. Bergoglio has made no such demands, while even as a travelling Bishop/Cardinal, Wojtyla would demand and get special treatment on his airline flights.
 
jns13
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:51 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 24):
He would also need to be fluent in Spanish as Bergoglio does not speak English. It would be a pretty awkward meeting too. Why would an airline CEO, need to have a private meeting with the Pope?

Perhaps AA is hoping for a change of leadership through divine intervention a la Speaker Boehner?  

Then again, that probably would've been more suitable for UA a few weeks ago...
 
beeweel15
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:02 am

Quoting covert (Reply 16):

Can't find any details about this "Classified" mission?

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/n776an/
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N776AN

It's there tracking it right now. It is 0700Z and over the South of France. As mentioned earlier I hope this aircraft ends up in a museum.

[Edited 2015-09-28 00:04:05]
 
zkncj
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:38 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 3):
It's a Flagship Suite version (thank goodness) and not the new non-F version of the AA 772.

Why couldn't just fly in Coach? coming from an country where even the Prime Minister flies in economy on short-haul flights, it seem crazy that the hope gets the use of an 772 to him self?
 
CPH-R
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:53 am

Currently on final approach to CIA.

Quoting zkncj (Reply 27):
Why couldn't just fly in Coach? coming from an country where even the Prime Minister flies in economy on short-haul flights, it seem crazy that the hope gets the use of an 772 to him self?

Most of the coach seats are filled with reporters and Vatican staff (although I'd imagine some of them goes in business, depending on hierachy). On top of that there's also a variety of taggers-on, usually cardinals from the country visited (if applicable).
 
coolian2
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:27 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 27):
coming from an country where even the Prime Minister flies in economy on short-haul flights,

Yeah but if he flies NZ he doesnt have too much choice.
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Curiousflyer
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:27 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 27):

He is on a tiring trip, all but short-haul.
And a prime minister is not a pope...

Moreover a lot of journalists pay a lot of money to sit (in coach) on this plane, so this comfortable flight does not cost a lot to the church.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:47 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 14):
That is the one thing that he does require, oh and a tempurpedic bed when he's staying someplace outside of his own bed.

According to the press, when His Holiness stayed in DC the Papal Nuncio bought a new regular, non-temperpedic twin mattress and that it would not be used again.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 20):
I'm wondering if when 776AN's service life ends, if it will end up in a museum or something.

In a word---no. Carrying a pope around for a few days does not immortalize an airplane. It will return to regular service, minus the papal sticker by the door. IIRC TWA did put a plaque on the 727 they used domestically saying it had carried John Paul II. Maybe AA will do something similar.
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blueflyer
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:53 pm

I wonder, on a one-way charter such as this, does the inbound crew rest in a hotel in Rome, or are they already heading "home" on the repositioning flight?

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 13):
Expensive modifications would not be in line with this pope's ideas, right?

The aircraft spent 64 hours on the ground at DFW between its last revenue flight and its ferry flight to ADW. Not much time to do anything. Throw in a a deep cabin cleaning, thorough security sweep and affixing a few decals and flag pole holders and there's even less time left.

Quoting zkncj (Reply 27):
Why couldn't just fly in Coach?

And hold a random drawing to give some of the journalists seats in first class instead? If not for protocol reason but merely out of respect for his old age, why not put him in first class since there's one onboard anyway?

[Edited 2015-09-28 06:55:56]
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Sooner787
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:07 pm

Looks like the jet is already heading back to DFW

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N776AN
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:37 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 20):
I'm wondering if when 776AN's service life ends, if it will end up in a museum or something.
Quoting beeweel15 (Reply 26):
As mentioned earlier I hope this aircraft ends up in a museum.

Ridiculous.
 
Sooner787
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:40 pm

I wonder if AA will charge a premimum fare for the Pope's 1st class seat?     
 
gulfstream650
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:00 pm

This photo shows him in F of the 772 with the old First Class.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/28/01/2CD7F31D00000578-3251252-image-a-4_1443399881951.jpg

Also here is a link in which there is a video of the Pope giving a press conference where he is standing by the 3R door on the 772 (pre retrofit I might add):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...se-gay-marriage-licenses-pope.html
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DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:19 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 32):






I wonder, on a one-way charter such as this, does the inbound crew rest in a hotel in Rome, or are they already heading "home" on the repositioning flight?

Legalities require that the entire crew have at least a minimum rest at a hotel in Rome. You would have heard their screams of rage if they had been told to turn and head home after a trans-Atlantic flight--without the need for a microphone.
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b777900
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:27 pm

IS there any on flying from Rome back to DFW or is it no empty no passengers?
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b777900
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:30 pm

Also is CIA always the airport the POPE flies out of or is is the other Rome airport Divinci?
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Timaay419
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:38 pm

American Airlines #goingforgod
 
markokralj
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:40 pm

CIA is a military airport too and it's used for State flights, Italian, Vatican and foreign Visitors.
 
csavel
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:00 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 32):
Quoting zkncj (Reply 27):
Why couldn't just fly in Coach?

And hold a random drawing to give some of the journalists seats in first class instead? If not for protocol reason but merely out of respect for his old age, why not put him in first class since there's one onboard anyway?

I am quite sure that even if he took a coach seat, the pilots, stewards, etc., would ask and practically insist that he fly First, and he seems like a man too polite to embarrass the crew just to make a point. tl:dr, if it were up to him, he'd fly coach w/o the pomp, but as powerful as he is, it isn't up to him.
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Max752
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:15 pm

Quoting b777900 (Reply 38):

IS there any on flying from Rome back to DFW or is it no empty no passengers?

Until the 777 lands in Dallas or Fort Worth Alliance, where ever it's headed, it's still operating as a chartered aircraft as far as I'm concerned. AA needs to first drop off all crew, remove any modifications made for the Pope including the Papal seal near door 1L, and then it can continue normal ops with that 777-2ER.

I would imagine DFW-LHR as AA81 like it was flying before the Pope came into the picture. Maybe some DFW-EZE?
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stgs1988
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:20 pm

"as Bergoglio does not speak English"

Quoting AR385 (Reply 24):
He would also need to be fluent in Spanish as Bergoglio does not speak English.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBM7DIeMsP0 - 50 minutes in full English at the U.S. Congress. The man speak several languages; Spanish, English, Italian, Latin among others. He is perfectly able to have a conversation in English.

Just to make a point.
 
Sooner787
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:59 pm

Man that's a long flight home, they're hitting the 11 hour mark right now,

flightaware says they're over north Texas, 15 minute or so from landing at DFW
 
32andBelow
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:19 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 37):
Legalities require that the entire crew have at least a minimum rest at a hotel in Rome. You would have heard their screams of rage if they had been told to turn and head home after a trans-Atlantic flight--without the need for a microphone.

Negative. If AA sent an advance crew they could ride in the back as a deadhead.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:30 pm

Quoting stgs1988 (Reply 44):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBM7DIeMsP0 - 50 minutes in full English at the U.S. Congress. The man speak several languages; Spanish, English, Italian, Latin among others. He is perfectly able to have a conversation in English.

I was going to say: yes he does. Thickly accented and with some elementary grammatical errors, but he does.

He probably did not write that speech in English, though. Even if he does write his own speeches (and probably he doesn't) he would do it in a language in which he is very comfortable such as Spanish or Latin and then have it translated.
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Jetstar315
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:59 pm

In Nov 1986 I worked as cabin crew on an Air NZ B767-200 flight from Christchurch NZ to Canberra Australia, carrying Pope John Paul II (and an entourage of about 112!!).
Our business class cabin which was normally configured in a 2-2-2 arrangement normally had 3 rows of seats for a total of 18 business class. On this flight, The 2 seats in each row on the left remained in standard configuration. The front row of the middle block was turned around to face the rear and the 2nd row middle block removed. So with the third row middle block in standard config. the centre became like a 4 seat lounge area.
All the seats on the right hand side were removed and replaced with a bespoke bed with beautiful linens in case His Holiness wanted to sleep.
The menu, cutlery and crockery used were the finest available and we we all immensely proud of the job Air NZ did in setting up the aircraft for such an occasion.
Just for your info the menu read as follows:
Various Hors d'Oeuvre
Fish Course: Orange Roughy Duglere
Seasonal Salad
Main Courses: Crown of Lamb, or Venison Marsala, or Crayfish Newburg, all served with a choice of potatoes, rice or fresh vegetables
Dessert: Gateau Cyrano
Selected NZ Cheeses
Fresh Fruit Basket and Handmade Chocolates followed by tea and coffee.
The whole day was a great experience!!
 
Cadet985
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RE: Pope's AA 777

Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:11 am

Quoting stgs1988 (Reply 44):

I was pleasantly surprised by him speaking English, and that's not a knock against him, but the media reports I had read had pretty much indicated that he wouldn't be speaking English on this trip.

Now, in case anyone is interested, our idiot of a Mayor here in Philadelphia is blaming the less than expected attendance numbers on the media blowing things out of proportion. I'm not a fan of our mayor, but this just disgusted me. The numbers - expected crowds, walking distances, etc. that the media reported - were numbers given by him and his staff at press conferences. ( http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...e-Visit-Media-Scare-329806701.html )

I know that last paragraph isn't about aviation, but figured some might find it interesting.

Marc

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