Cathay Pacific Considering New Routes

Miami · Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:42 am

In an interview with Apple Daily, Cathay Pacific's Director Corporate Affairs Officer, James Tong, said with the expansion of its fleet, they are looking to expand.

From the article:

Quote:
Direct flights in Tel Aviv, (expected next year in August), . James Tong said. Other studies also offer direct flights to places including Munich, Berlin, Copenhagen, Stockholm, as well as Hawaii, Houston, and even Miami.

As in the past few connecting Hong Kong's South American market, now has "Watch List" in Cathay inside. James Tong said the company is examining the possibility of a transit station in Miami, connecting passengers to many countries in South America, where as many as 20 million people, Brazil's main city of Sao Paulo is one of the "heart of the water" after two years it is expected that the fastest, namely 2017 was implemented.

Thoughts?

Article is in Chinese - http://hkm.appledaily.com/detail.php...5307&category=daily&issue=20150929

-Miami

LAX772LR · Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:48 am

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
and even Miami.

...KNEW that was coming (on here).

USAirALB · Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:49 am

I am surprised they haven't tried IAD yet.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 1):
...KNEW that was coming (on here).

Yes how shocking.

hz747300 · Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:53 am

Hmm.... Interesting given some of the places are already served, and some not. I'll throw in some more: St. Petersburg, Dublin, Brussels, Cape Town, Seattle, Atlanta, Dallas. The adding of Madrid covered the largest passenger market not yet served in Europe.

Clearly, these have to wait for the new planes to come online, and figuring out who's going to fly them.

Living in HK, would love to see Hawaii sooner rather than later! I think it'd still be close to a 10 hour flight, but from there could easily transit home to Arizona.

727LOVER · Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:56 am

What new aircraft does CX have ordered?

hz747300 · Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:02 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 4):
What new aircraft does CX have ordered?

A350s (one being built as we speak!) - 22 of the 900 variety

and Next Generation 777s - 21 of the 9X variety

skyhawkmatthew · Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:11 am

St Petersburg seems unlikely considering Moscow just got dropped.

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 5):
A350s (one being built as we speak!) - 22 of the 900 variety

And 26 -1000s.

kiwiandrew · Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:16 am

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
n an interview with Apple Daily, Cathay Pacific's Director Corporate Affairs Officer, James Tong, said with the expansion of its fleet, they are looking to expand.

From the article:

Quote:
Direct flights in Tel Aviv, (expected next year in August), . James Tong said. Other studies also offer direct flights to places including Munich, Berlin, Copenhagen, Stockholm ,

Technically, Stockholm would be a resumption rather than a new destination. CX served it (briefly) years ago. Not completely certain of the routing/frequency, I think it might have been 3 x weekly via FRA, but don't hold me to that.

res77W · Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:20 am

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 2):

This shocks me too. I would think a D.C.- Hong Kong flight would have existed by now. I'm thinking UA hasn't gone for it maybe beause of EWR to the north. Maybe CX is waiting for the 35J rather than biting the bullet with a 77W.

AVENSAB727 · Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:22 am

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
Direct flights in Tel Aviv, (expected next year in August), . James Tong said. Other studies also offer direct flights to places including Munich, Berlin, Copenhagen, Stockholm, as well as Hawaii, Houston, and even Miam

Looks like Houston could yet again get another international carrier! unless UA beats them to it.

HELyes · Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:26 am

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
Copenhagen, Stockholm

That would hit SAS, they just started the service from ARN 5x weekly. And probably would have an effect on Finnair's daily service, A350 starting on the route around February-March 2016.

MaverickM11 · Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:29 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 1):
...KNEW that was coming (on here).

Airline looking at new destinations. Groundbreaking.

chrisp390 · Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:51 am

So would the Miami transit involve transferring passengers to AA? Or is Cathay going to be flying routes out of Miami on their own and bypass their partner?

2175301 · Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:18 am

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):

Thoughts?

Must be a slow news day... My suspicions is that Cathy Pacific has a group that is constantly analyzing potential route changes.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):

Airline looking at new destinations. Groundbreaking.

To some; obviously yes...

Have a great day,

toxtethogrady · Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:27 am

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
Direct flights in Tel Aviv, (expected next year in August), . James Tong said. Other studies also offer direct flights to places including Munich, Berlin, Copenhagen, Stockholm, as well as Hawaii, Houston, and even Miami.

Someone better tell the doubters who claimed IAH-HKG would never be flown...

LAX772LR · Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:28 am

Though, some of these proposals make me wonder if CX might consider swapping some of their 779s for 778s.

HKG-MIA is a whopper: it's more than 200mi longer than SIN-LAX was... we're talking an 18.5hr flight here.
Doubt an A350 in standard configuration can realistically ply that.

As such, I doubt they'd serve it nonstop. Probably go via Canada. But if not, they're going to need more uplift than the eqp that they currently have coming in.

winginit · Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:32 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 15):
HKG-MIA is a whopper: it's more than 200mi longer than SIN-LAX was... we're talking an 18.5hr flight here.
Doubt an A350 in standard configuration can realistically ply that.

As such, I doubt they'd serve it nonstop. Probably go via Canada. But if not, they're going to need more uplift than the eqp that they currently have coming in.

Additionally, while the two carriers obviously can't discuss future capacity or it's implications, AA's DFWHKG draws heavily from the southeast United States and Latin America. For CX to serve MIA nonstop would hugely impact their own oneworld partner's sole HKG nonstop.

Noise · Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:33 am

Montreal off the list?

IndianicWorld · Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:40 am

Its great to see CX expanding. Certainly a very different situation to SQ at present.

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 13):
Must be a slow news day... My suspicions is that Cathy Pacific has a group that is constantly analyzing potential route changes.

All airlines do... That's not a new thing.

eal · Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:40 am

There's another thread going on about ULH routes to Miami, so I figure discussion about MIA can be kept there.

On an another note, I'm very surprised that CX don't already fly to Hawaii, I imagine an A330 could do HNL-HKG comfortably, add a codeshare with Hawaiian on the other end and you open up more convenient one stops to a number of West Coast cities.

Just out of curiosity, how come no Transpacific LatAm flights exist? The only one right now is MEX-TIJ-NRT/PEK/PVG. Are there some natural deterrent I don't know about? For example HKG-SCL (going South and then turning).

[Edited 2015-09-28 19:48:03]

LAXdude1023 · Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:46 am

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 9):
Looks like Houston could yet again get another international carrier! unless UA beats them to it.

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 14):
Someone better tell the doubters who claimed IAH-HKG would never be flown...

CX won't fly IAH-HKG for a very long time if ever.

This isn't the time to launch new routes to Houston. The oil market is bottoms. BR has reduced service and SQ is doing poorly in the premium cabins.

You guys can dream all day long, but this isn't going to happen. Very small local market and no alliance connections. Airlines study markets all day long. Thats what they do.

402679 · Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:08 am

Quoting eal (Reply 19):
Just out of curiosity, how come no Transpacific LatAm flights exist? The only one right now is MEX-TIJ-NRT/PEK/PVG. Are there some natural deterrent I don't know about? For example HKG-SCL (going South and then turning).

Actually there's LAN flight on a B787 doing SCL-AKL-SYD and Qantas on SYD-SCL route with a B747.
Not so long ago there was also an Aerolineas Argentinas to SYD and even Malasya Airlines to EZE.

thomasphoto60 · Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:18 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 20):
CX won't fly IAH-HKG for a very long time if ever.

This isn't the time to launch new routes to Houston. The oil market is bottoms. BR has reduced service and SQ is doing poorly in the premium cabins.

You guys can dream all day long, but this isn't going to happen. Very small local market and no alliance connections. Airlines study markets all day long. Thats what they do.

I am one of those doubters. AI has been "studying" IAH for over 20 years, so far nada. Hell, we'll be lucky just to keep one or two of the Asians before our economy bounces back. That said, I would be elated if I were dead wrong.

JAAlbert · Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:33 am

Hawaii? What interest could CX possibly have in Hawaii?

Where does CX stand in terms of the largest Chinese carriers?

LAX772LR · Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:42 am

Quoting eal (Reply 19):
I'm very surprised that CX don't already fly to Hawaii

Why? Hawaii's populace/business is heavily centered around Japan, domestic, and (to a lesser extent) Korea.

No comparative Chinese nor SE Asian business/influence/diaspora/tourism.
So what interest would CX (or KA) have in Hawaii?

That'd probably have been the kind of route that an Air Asia HK or JetStar HK would've done for-- had they gotten off the ground.

FSDan · Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:52 am

Interesting to see that HKG-SEA isn't on their list (at least not explicitly mentioned).

As mentioned in the other thread about new ULH routes to MIA, I think a HKG-NRT-MIA route could make a lot of sense for CX as long as they beat JL and AA to it.

I also agree that HKG-IAH would seem like a bad idea in the current climate (a combination of Houston's economy struggling and the recent addition of NH, KE, CA, and BR to the IAH transpacific playing field).

LAX772LR · Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:18 am

Quoting FSDan (Reply 25):
as long as they beat JL and AA to it.

...it's not like AA/JL couldn't immediately add it in retaliation, and likely run CX off of the route.

Also, what's Japan/HK's bilateral like?
Would/could an HK carrier even be given the 5th freedom?

Coal · Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:48 am

Quoting geoshina (Reply 21):
Malasya Airlines to EZE

MH flew to EZE via South Africa, so not Transpacific.

Rgds
Coal

RWA380 · Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:14 am

Quoting coal (Reply 27):
MH flew to EZE via South Africa, so not Transpacific

Via JNB & CPT

MAH4546 · Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:52 am

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 9):

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
Direct flights in Tel Aviv, (expected next year in August), . James Tong said. Other studies also offer direct flights to places including Munich, Berlin, Copenhagen, Stockholm, as well as Hawaii, Houston, and even Miam

Looks like Houston could yet again get another international carrier! unless UA beats them to it.

Doubt it will happen anytime soon. Houston's problem right now will be keeping carriers. I heard ANA is doing very poorly and it will go to a 787; with F cabin sales already zero'd out in prep. Plus Singapore is likely struggling and SAS is gone.

777way · Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:03 am

Another shaless company headed to Israel,

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 28):

Eventually it became one stop, I think.

YLWbased · Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:41 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 23):

Hawaii? What interest could CX possibly have in Hawaii?

I can see HKG-HNL being a Dragonair (KA) route with high density configuration, if the HK Passport visa free program goes through congress as planned in 2016.

YLWbased

behramjee · Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:01 am

At the recently concluded World Routes Conference in Durban it was talked about a lot that the next two EU routes for CX shall be CPH and MUC. They are looking very keenly to see how SAS performs on ARN-HKG !

covert · Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:57 am

Quoting eal (Reply 19):
On an another note, I'm very surprised that CX don't already fly to Hawaii, I imagine an A330 could do HNL-HKG comfortably, add a codeshare with Hawaiian on the other end and you open up more convenient one stops to a number of West Coast cities.

That's a hard sell; I haven't seen the proprietary figures, but the market China-HNL seems saturated for this point in time. They already have MU and CA flying from the Mainland (China) and their services are less than daily. Chinese tourist numbers are increasing, but public officials and airline execs have gone on the record to say that the Visa Waiver Program (which China or HK are not a part of) is keeping the growth from increasing by an appreciable amount. Since this is more of an inbound market (from China/HK) rather than the other direction, we would have to see the visa rules relaxed to see this become more viable.

HNL isn't really an ideal hub, the why behind this has been discussed in depth in other threads. Additionally, Alaska provides a good codeshare feed from the West Coast for CX, and their oneworld partner AA also does help to some extent.

LOT767SP-LPA · Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:04 am

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 3):

Instead of St. Petersburg, I would take under consideration Warsaw as a new Central/Eastearn European destination. This city becomes as a major business place.

behramjee · Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:06 am

Quoting YLWbased (Reply 31):
I can see HKG-HNL being a Dragonair (KA) route with high density configuration, if the HK Passport visa free program goes through congress as planned in 2016.

Wont be possible with an A333 though as its 11 hours 25 minutes block time approx which KA's A333s wont be able to perform as they have the normal A333 versions on their fleet which can operate 8-9 hours nonstop max.

I would like to see CX in IKA-Tehran as soon as its legally possible operating 4 weekly A333s via BKK with 5th freedom rights. There is a lot of traffic from Iran to BKK + Australia/China/Japan/HKG that they can tap into along with cargo demand.

Since someone was posting about Houston-HKG not having demand, it was 21,000 pax in 2014 round trip. DFW in comparison was 20,000 pax.

[Edited 2015-09-29 01:09:44]

flythere · Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:19 am

Berlin also stands a high chance given it's home to OneWorld partner AirBerlin with more connectivity to Eastern Europe and it is currently underserved for Far East destinations.

AVENSAB727 · Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:48 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 29):

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 9):

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
Direct flights in Tel Aviv, (expected next year in August), . James Tong said. Other studies also offer direct flights to places including Munich, Berlin, Copenhagen, Stockholm, as well as Hawaii, Houston, and even Miam

Looks like Houston could yet again get another international carrier! unless UA beats them to it.

Doubt it will happen anytime soon. Houston's problem right now will be keeping carriers. I heard ANA is doing very poorly and it will go to a 787; with F cabin sales already zero'd out in prep. Plus Singapore is likely struggling and SAS is gone.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...s-new-key-long-haul-service-245295
Not according to this article. Where did you hear ANA is doing poorly? EVA plans to increase to six weekly in 2016. Air New Zealand is about to arrive.

[Edited 2015-09-29 02:11:13]

RWA380 · Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:05 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 30):
Eventually it became one stop, I think.

Maybe, every time that I sold the flight to customers JNB-EZE it was stopping at CPT, then it all just went away rather abruptly.

BNEFlyer · Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:45 am

Quoting flythere (Reply 36):
Berlin also stands a high chance given it's home to OneWorld partner AirBerlin with more connectivity to Eastern Europe and it is currently underserved for Far East destinations.

They've just started service to DUS (a bigger AB hub than TXL) so Berlin probably won't happen anytime soon. If there was another German city online I'd say MUC.

jfk777 · Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:33 am

Houston is surprising, not a One World hub and Hong Kong is not a oil center. DFW would obviously make more sense, there should be enough market for a CX 777 & an AA 777 daily from DFW to HKG.

777way · Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:42 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 38):

Just checked online it became via CPT only, while JNB went terminator.

LAXdude1023 · Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:48 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 37):
Not according to this article. Where did you hear ANA is doing poorly? EVA plans to increase to six weekly in 2016. Air New Zealand is about to arrive.

Could you show me where the article points out the performance of any of the carriers?

Also, BR is decreasing IAH a couple of frequencies:

OAG Changes 9/18/2015:AA LGA Routes/AD Grumco Out (by enilria Sep 13 2015 in Civil Aviation)

FSDan · Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:25 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 26):
...it's not like AA/JL couldn't immediately add it in retaliation, and likely run CX off of the route.

True, but if CX started it first I think AA would codeshare with them instead of trying to run their partner off the route... Also, CX starting this route could potentially free up AA/JL to consider other top contenders like SEA-NRT, PHX-NRT, or PHL-NRT. Unless MIA-NRT is a way bigger market, in which case I could see them getting defensive.

YLWbased · Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:27 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 35):
Wont be possible with an A333 though as its 11 hours 25 minutes block time approx which KA's A333s wont be able to perform as they have the normal A333 versions on their fleet which can operate 8-9 hours nonstop max.

KA hasn't been ordering any aircraft (new or old) for a long time, there are chances that one or 2 of CX's orders are heading to KA in the future.

YLWbased

zeke · Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:15 pm

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
Thoughts?

Posted this yesterday in Is The Time Right For CX To Start SEA? (by DolphinAir747 Sep 23 2015 in Civil Aviation)

"I think SEA, MIA, ATL, IAH, IAD, DFW would be destinations that will see CX passenger services in the future, when, who knows. The A350 is an airframe which provides the range and payload to anywhere in North America from Hong Kong, at a competitive cost base. "

Quoting YLWbased (Reply 44):
there are chances that one or 2 of CX's orders are heading to KA in the future.

B-LBB should be going to KA soon

AVENSAB727 · Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:18 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 42):

According to airline route, that increase in service was delayed till late march 2016. You can look it up on that website.

The site does not go into the the performance, but it does show that Houston will weather the downturn in the oil industry, and that growth will still occur in 2016.
And here is the IAH traffic report:

http://system.gocampaign.com/netisd_...31-FY15%20Statistical%20Report.pdf

[Edited 2015-09-29 07:25:42]

[Edited 2015-09-29 07:27:59]

IrishAyes · Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:57 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 46):
According to airline route, that increase in service was delayed till late march 2016. You can look it up on that website.

Yes, which could also mean that it may be pushed back even further. Not saying that it will, but so far it is not a good sign.

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 46):
The site does not go into the the performance, but it does show that Houston will weather the downturn in the oil industry, and that growth will still occur in 2016.

The site does give credit to Houston's ability to attract foreign carriers but does not give an accurate forecast as to how long it will be able to sustain all of these services. One carrier has already pulled the plug and I would not be surprised to see others make some capacity adjustments.

a380787 · Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:03 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 45):

"I think SEA, MIA, ATL, IAH, IAD, DFW would be destinations that will see CX passenger services in the future, when, who knows. The A350 is an airframe which provides the range and payload to anywhere in North America from Hong Kong, at a competitive cost base. "

SEA makes the most sense. DFW only if the market grows sufficiently to support another airline. MIA must be done via tag. IAD is the marginal one, while ATL/IAH makes very little sense. Just because the 359 has the range doesn't make it a good route to fly.

Even HKG-YYC makes more sense than ATL.

AM744 · Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:24 pm

Quoting eal (Reply 19):
Just out of curiosity, how come no Transpacific LatAm flights exist? The only one right now is MEX-TIJ-NRT/PEK/PVG. Are there some natural deterrent I don't know about? For example HKG-SCL (going South and then turning).

In the case of Mexico, the US hubs are too close. IAH is 1:30hr away from MEX, all the others less than 3 or 4 hrs at most.

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