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CALTECH
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Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:12 am

You are here.
 
MSPNWA
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:16 am

Ouch is right. Judging by the positioning, was that a runaway aircraft? Don't see how else that could have happened.

Edit: I see the article implies that. But how exactly isn't clear.

[Edited 2015-09-28 18:29:16]
 
rta
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:17 am

I had to look twice at that. That's pretty nasty.
 
32andBelow
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:29 am

At least the don't have to deal with a separate pissed off company!
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:42 am

Damn....... I'm not sure how that happened but it's a mess. Were they towing it and it got away?
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RWA380
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:47 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 4):

Damn....... I'm not sure how that happened but it's a mess. Were they towing it and it got away?

This is what I thought looking at the pictures, I just can't imagine how badly someone would had to have been driving otherwise.
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Boeing778X
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:56 am

Well Now! O.o

That'll buff right out!
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Okie
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:58 am

They had an Mx taxi incident at MCO back in August I believe. Not sure the results of the aircraft involved yet.

Had to have been missing chocks and parking brake ran out of accumulator pressure. I thought they had to have a brake rider for towing which would rule out a broke tow bar.

Okie
 
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casinterest
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:15 am

There is a tug there....... WTF happened?
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notaxonrotax
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:17 am

Makes the front 737 look a bit like a 707!!
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AA737-823
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:24 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 9):
There is a tug there....... WTF happened?

Something stupid, OR MEDICAL in nature.
 
kraz911
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:57 am

Hello all,

Not knowing the tail numbers but the one picture, the striking a/c appears to have gouges in the roof before the front two doors. Hopefully its an illusion.
Could have been much worse, I'm glad it wasn't...
 
alasizon
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:58 am

Interesting thing is, that Lambo at the front of the plane doesn't look like it is nearly a big enough model to move that plane. Perhaps the wrong model was used and resulted in not enough braking power?
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northwestEWR
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:00 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 6):
This is what I thought looking at the pictures, I just can't imagine how badly someone would had to have been driving otherwise.

A couple guesses for towing scenarios:

1) Brake rider in the cockpit accidentally activated the brakes, tearing the 737 away from the Tug and then crashed.

2) Tug failure that released the nose gear and then it crashed before the brake rider could stop the aircraft.

3) Complete and total failure on the tug driver's part and they drove right into the other aircraft.
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mayor
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:05 am

You know, they don't teach parallel parking in drivers' ed anymore.


When I worked at ORD, I remember seeing a DL DC-9-14 parked under the left wing of a DL 747 at the end of "H" concourse. Not sure why it was there, but it may have had something to do with an airport closure due to a snowstorm.
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Okie
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:25 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 9):
There is a tug there....... WTF happened?

I am thinking the tug is there after the fact to push back the errant plane that was not chocked and rolled to that position.
That is the best I can tell.
I am have trouble envisioning the tug actually pulling the aircraft to there unless the brakes failed on the tug.

Okie
 
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ssteve
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:30 am

It's 737 spawning season in Seattle. We've seen a high number of returns this year, some making it as far as Renton.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:44 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 14):
3) Complete and total failure on the tug driver's part and they drove right into the other aircraft.

I am thinking this is a turning moment problem. The bar broke or something related or the nose wheel rotated for some reason, and that tail swings fast if something like that happens and some one is not paying full attention and ready!

Tugg
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casinterest
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:54 am

Quoting Okie (Reply 16):

I am thinking the tug is there after the fact to push back the errant plane that was not chocked and rolled to that position.

I am not sure of that as there is someone taking a picture in the 2nd scene. I am thinking they wouldn't want to disturb the site while accessing the damage. Especially as this possibly could come down to an airport vs airline or airline vs ground crew issue in handling.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Prost
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:22 am

And you guys said they couldn't fit more planes here at SEA. Showed you!
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:02 am

Quoting Tugger (Reply 18):
am thinking this is a turning moment problem. The bar broke or something related or the nose wheel rotated for some reason, and that tail swings fast if something like that happens and some one is not paying full attention and ready!

There is no tow bar. They use the electric tugs there that use the pull straps. Larger version of type Horizon uses.
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CALTECH
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:14 am

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 21):
There is no tow bar. They use the electric tugs there that use the pull straps. Larger version of type Horizon uses.

In this image there is a towbar hooked up to the aircraft in the foreground....

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2015/09/28/ca/99/SeaTac_Planes_Collide.jpg

https://tribkcpq.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/collision.jpg?w=770
You are here.
 
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N14AZ
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:27 am

Quoting CALTECH (Thread starter):
Ouch.

I cannot see the pictures, they are blocked since they seem to come from a social network platform or whatsoever.
Does anybody have a "neutral" link, e.g. from newspaper, spotter forum etc.?
 
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RWA380
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:00 am

Quoting Prost (Reply 20):

And you guys said they couldn't fit more planes here at SEA. Showed you!

Save that exact picture & everytime the topic of SEA or anything SEA related just pull it out there to prove the point.
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:48 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 23):
I cannot see the pictures, they are blocked since they seem to come from a social network platform or whatsoever.
Does anybody have a "neutral" link, e.g. from newspaper, spotter forum etc.?

Here ya go........

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm233/CALTECHphoto/SWSEA%20INCI_zps3fpctxnh.jpg

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm233/CALTECHphoto/SWSEAINCI2_zps4smnx1v0.jpg
You are here.
 
wnflyguy
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:17 pm

Looks like the Remote parking pad for overnight aircraft.
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Western727
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:17 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 26):

Looks like the Remote parking pad for overnight aircraft.

Yes, the AS hangar is just south of the South Satellite (which itself houses DL and international airlines). WN's gates are at B, on the north side of the South Satellite, so it's definitely a RON area and not the B terminal.
Jack @ AUS
 
JAAlbert
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:28 pm

So which plane struck the other? It looks like the plane resting atop the other was parked and that somehow the plane from behind goosed the front plane.
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:29 pm

Pulling all the chocks before the tug was connected. Breaks were off. Rolled forward.

Bounced off the apu cowl above the First Officer's windows.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm233/CALTECHphoto/SWSEAI3_zpsyjaqprmd.jpg

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm233/CALTECHphoto/SWASEAI4_zpsocg7pdia.jpg

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm233/CALTECHphoto/SWASEAI6_zpsivwx6hds.jpg

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm233/CALTECHphoto/SWASEAI5_zpsw6zzcfy1.jpg
You are here.
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:30 pm

Ahhh ! Nothing wrong with a little pat on the back from a buddy
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mayor
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:34 pm

Little speed tape and some polish and she'll be as good as new.  
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apfpilot
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:41 pm

See if Southwest had red-eyes this airplanes wouldn't have been in position to bump.

  
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wn676
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:04 pm

Quoting alasizon (Reply 13):
Interesting thing is, that Lambo at the front of the plane doesn't look like it is nearly a big enough model to move that plane. Perhaps the wrong model was used and resulted in not enough braking power?

WN just went through a big buying spree with Lektro, they do make Lambos that are 737 capable. Pretty sure they were testing in HOU with the dual-cab setup a couple of years ago. I know they just bought a few TBLs from TLD (?) too.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
Western727
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:15 pm

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 32):
See if Southwest had red-eyes this airplanes wouldn't have been in position to bump.

   
Jack @ AUS
 
dashdrvr
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:20 pm

It is hard to tell if that Lektro Cart is or was involved but it does seem to be small for the job. It actually looks like the size used to push a Dash8-400.
Lektro carts are great for C-172's but as the aircraft size gets bigger the myriad of potential issues climbs exponentially. Being the nose wheel sits pinched into a cradle under some circumstances the nose wheel can jump out of the cradle. If the Lektro Cart is not properly sized to the aircraft the aircraft weight can overcome the weight and inertia of the Lektro Cart.
All my years of being pushed and pulled I have never had an issue with tow bars other than broken sheer pins. Lektro Carts on the other hand have posed numerous challenges with larger aircraft.

[Edited 2015-09-29 10:53:28]
 
wn676
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:45 pm

Quoting dashdrvr (Reply 35):
It is hard to tell if that Lektro Cart is or was involved but it does seem to be small for the job. It actually looks like the size used to push a Dash8-400.

Should be the AP89 model which is spec'd to handle 737s and A320s. Personally, just looking at them, you almost can't help being skeptical...though given the above information on the chocks being pulled too early, it seems to be a moot point.

[Edited 2015-09-29 10:46:40]
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
SXDFC
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:07 pm

From what it looks like, and CALTECH can confirm the two A/C are the following:

(737-7H4) N475WN

(737-7BD) N7738A
 
apfpilot
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:08 pm

Quoting wn676 (Reply 36):
Should be the AP89 model which is spec'd to handle 737s and A320s. Personally, just looking at them, you almost can't help being skeptical...though given the above information on the chocks being pulled too early, it seems to be a moot point.

I've yanked some heavy stuff with one of those including a G550 loaded for a flight from Florida to Paris and an HC-130J never had any issue. Granted those aren't a 737 but presumably it was light if it was first flight of the morning.

Never liked towing a G550 or a G200 with them though, nose was too close!
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mtnwest1979
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:31 pm

Quoting dashdrvr (Reply 35):
It is hard to tell if that Lektro Cart is or was involved but it does seem to be small for the job. It actually looks like the size used to push a Dash8-400.

They are bigger than the QX ones. They were on site for awhile and were just starting to get used when I xferred from SEA.

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 22):
In this image there is a towbar hooked up to the aircraft in the foreground....

No, there isn't.
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
kraz911
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:12 pm

Hello all,

I'm sorry that Southwest is having all this bad luck.

From the one picture available N7738A (rear a/c), it looked like scrape/gouge marks and I was hoping it was an illusion. The recent pictures show its way past CALTECH's initial "ouch".

The bank shot off of N475WN's apu cowl was a fooler also. From that earlier picture, it looked like there was only a single contact with the roof and the horizontal stab.

Regarding that aircraft mover, maybe someone/company said it was rated for 737's but I feel it looks like a dinky toy. Maybe if it were completely dry and level with an empty a/c it might be ok. Guess one out of three isn't bad?

Finally, N475WN must not have been hurt that bad since its currently making money for the company...
 
KELPkid
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:16 pm

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 29):
Pulling all the chocks before the tug was connected. Breaks were off. Rolled forward.

Wow, a RON ramp with a slope? Or was there some wind to help the bird move on its own?  
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:29 pm

I, for one, am just glad they didn't hit the WiFi satellite dish. That would have been a real tragedy.
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HPRamper
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:36 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 41):
Wow, a RON ramp with a slope? Or was there some wind to help the bird move on its own?

A lot of the ramps at SEA are sloped, mostly for drainage purposes. Usage of chocks is more than a formality here  
 
wn676
Posts: 1747
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:44 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 43):
A lot of the ramps at SEA are sloped, mostly for drainage purposes. Usage of chocks is more than a formality here
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 41):
Wow, a RON ramp with a slope?

0.5-1.0% is typical for most aprons anywhere. Otherwise you end up with a lot of standing water.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:44 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 43):
A lot of the ramps at SEA are sloped, mostly for drainage purposes. Usage of chocks is more than a formality here

That must be rough on tugs! Also aircraft engines...you have to goose them to go uphill.
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
HPRamper
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:55 pm

Quoting wn676 (Reply 44):
0.5-1.0% is typical for most aprons anywhere. Otherwise you end up with a lot of standing water.

True, although at some parts of SEA including the ramp I work on the grade is certainly higher than 1.0%, flight crews comment on it often.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 45):
That must be rough on tugs! Also aircraft engines...you have to goose them to go uphill.

You don't want to be "that guy" who accidentally stops the incoming plane too soon, they really have to goose them to get moving again from a dead stop.
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:03 pm

Quoting wn676 (Reply 44):
0.5-1.0% is typical for most aprons anywhere. Otherwise you end up with a lot of standing water.

Well, at any (small, GA small) airports I worked at, the ramp slope (if it existed) was barely discernible...of course, you do chock aircraft out of an abundance of safety (it was in the desert, too, so tie downs were mandatory except for the largest aircraft). At the biggest airport I worked at (that had scheduled Beech 1900 service), there were storm drains every so often in the ramp...and when we'd get a monsoon, no standing water (but plenty of tarantulas...they always come out after the rain   ).
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
dashdrvr
Posts: 93
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:49 pm

Latest word on the street is chocks were pulled without brakes being set. Airplane rolled to its final resting place.
 
Western727
Posts: 1785
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RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:25 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 43):
A lot of the ramps at SEA are sloped, mostly for drainage purposes. Usage of chocks is more than a formality here

As a Seattle native, I've got to chuckle at this one. I actually sort of miss the eternal rain that's typical for the fall/winter/spring, believe it or not.
Jack @ AUS
 
wn676
Posts: 1747
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Southwest At Seattle Incident

Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:36 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 46):
True, although at some parts of SEA including the ramp I work on the grade is certainly higher than 1.0%, flight crews comment on it often.

Yeah, I guess I should have backed off the "anywhere" part. If you don't build an apron with FAA funding you can get away with something out of that range. Where I used to work they actually had signs on one concourse that reminded the pilots to keep the parking brake set at the gate because of the gradient (can't remember exactly how steep it was but it was definitely noticeable). Got really good and ramming out stuck chocks through the nosewheels on that ramp.....

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 47):
Well, at any (small, GA small) airports I worked at, the ramp slope (if it existed) was barely discernible...of course, you do chock aircraft out of an abundance of safety (it was in the desert, too, so tie downs were mandatory except for the largest aircraft). At the biggest airport I worked at (that had scheduled Beech 1900 service), there were storm drains every so often in the ramp...and when we'd get a monsoon, no standing water (but plenty of tarantulas...they always come out after the rain ).

Even with slot drains/catch basins, you still need a gradient to convey the water. A half-percent isn't going to really stand out though, and depending on how old the apron is, it could even be less. Of course, with a large rainfall event, that's going to cause some drainage issues.

Glad we never had to deal with tarantulas. Just the occasional beehive and burrowing owls.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.

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