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9lflyguy
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US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:34 pm



Saw this on FB earlier today. Happened at Mcallen Miller Int. Not my photo as you can see by the watermark but the outbound was cancelled. Looks pretty brutal.

[Edited 2015-09-29 15:35:50]
Flown on: 319, 320, 321, 712, 722, 732, 733, 734, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 763, 772, CR2, CR7, CR9, DHA, D8B, D8C, D95, E140, E145, E170, E175, E190, M82, M88, M90, S340
 
EnviroTO
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:48 pm

Anyone know if N248LR is a NextGen? I wonder if the damage that would have resulted is significant. Too bad the picture isn't down the runway because from that angle it looks like the aircraft was about to land half off the runway, but from that angle it is hard to tell.
 
AV8AJET
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:48 am

Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 1):
Anyone know if N248LR is a NextGen? I wonder if the damage that would have resulted is significant. Too bad the picture isn't down the runway because from that angle it looks like the aircraft was about to land half off the runway, but from that angle it is hard to tell.

Based on the size of the windows and winglets it looks to me like a "Next Gen."

[Edited 2015-09-29 17:49:12]
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
D L X
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:00 am

https://www.airliners.net/uf/113383/1443565971lpenSy.jpg

WOW!!

I definitely hope never to be on a plane and see that out the wing!
 
kevintarmac
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:11 am

How was your flight? Not bad but acute landing! Seriously anyone know what the crosswind was if any?
 
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Adipasquale
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:19 am

Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 1):
Anyone know if N248LR is a NextGen?

It is. Originally delivered October 2011.

[Edited 2015-09-29 19:24:17]
DH8A DH8B CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 E45 E70 E75 E90 D93 M88 318 319 320 321 333 343 712 732 733 734 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77L 77W
 
N243NW
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:30 am

Quoting Kevintarmac (Reply 4):
Seriously anyone know what the crosswind was if any?

Looks like it landed on runway 31.

From a couple hours before to a couple hours after the arrival:

KMFE 291753Z 02005KT 10SM CLR 33/21 A2986 RMK AO2 SLP110 T03330211 10333 20239 58000
KMFE 291653Z VRB04KT 10SM CLR 31/22 A2987 RMK AO2 SLP113 T03110217
KMFE 291553Z VRB03KT 10SM CLR 30/22 A2987 RMK AO2 SLP114 T03000222
KMFE 291453Z 00000KT 10SM CLR 27/22 A2986 RMK AO2 SLP110 T02720222 53018
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32andBelow
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:43 am

Quoting N243NW (Reply 6):
KMFE 291753Z 02005KT 10SM CLR 33/21 A2986 RMK AO2 SLP110 T03330211 10333 20239 58000
KMFE 291653Z VRB04KT 10SM CLR 31/22 A2987 RMK AO2 SLP113 T03110217
KMFE 291553Z VRB03KT 10SM CLR 30/22 A2987 RMK AO2 SLP114 T03000222
KMFE 291453Z 00000KT 10SM CLR 27/22 A2986 RMK AO2 SLP110 T02720222 5301

Well can't really make the weather any better than that!
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:01 am

looks a little left of centerline.
 
INFINITI329
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:03 am

Quoting N243NW (Reply 6):
KMFE 291753Z 02005KT 10SM CLR 33/21 A2986 RMK AO2 SLP110 T03330211 10333 20239 58000
KMFE 291653Z VRB04KT 10SM CLR 31/22 A2987 RMK AO2 SLP113 T03110217
KMFE 291553Z VRB03KT 10SM CLR 30/22 A2987 RMK AO2 SLP114 T03000222
KMFE 291453Z 00000KT 10SM CLR 27/22 A2986 RMK AO2 SLP110 T02720222 53018

That's damn near perfect landing conditions!!.. Little to no wind... Someone got some explaining to do.. maybe some wind shear

I belive this is a YV jet

[Edited 2015-09-29 22:10:35]

I didn't know US branded flying was doing flying for AA side already


[Edited 2015-09-29 22:18:50]
 
wjcandee
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:04 am

Nobody has yet mentioned the airline, which was Mesa. ASH5786

Hasn't departed McAllen since it landed, and its return to DFW was canx.

I'd be curious to hear more about the circumstances. Unlikely to make the media, I suspect.
 
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9lflyguy
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:17 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 10):
Unlikely to make the media, I suspect.

Looks like it just did:

http://www.fox10phoenix.com/arizona-news/26473338-story
Flown on: 319, 320, 321, 712, 722, 732, 733, 734, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 763, 772, CR2, CR7, CR9, DHA, D8B, D8C, D95, E140, E145, E170, E175, E190, M82, M88, M90, S340
 
wjcandee
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:47 am

Quoting 9lflyguy (Reply 11):
Looks like it just did:

Interesting. Of course the spotter gives the pilot a break and says something about wind shear and the pilot saving everyone.

Uh-huh.

Looking at the METARS, wind shear seems unlikely, although certainly possible given how weather changes in Texas. Nevertheless, both the photo and the METARS seem to describe a sunny day with minimal weather.

I'd love to know the experience level of the flight deck crew.
 
rlwynn
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:24 am

Is that a retro livery? Why would it still be painted in an airline that no longer exists?
I can drive faster than you
 
tomaheath
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:49 am

We still get the US airways livery daily up here in New Hampshire.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:33 pm

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 13):

Is that a retro livery? Why would it still be painted in an airline that no longer exists?

Because you can't paint hundreds of planes overnight. I suspect you will still see the US Airways brand flying for a least a couple more years.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
N415XJ
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:54 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think pilots at SkyWest can jump between CRJ-200s, 700s, and 900s randomly during a trip. Is Mesa the same way? If so maybe the pilot just flew a few CRJ-200 legs and underestimated the length of the -900s wings. Again, please correct me if I wrong about pilots jumping from type to type as I'm not 100% sure.
 
Whiteguy
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:56 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 12):

Quoting 9lflyguy (Reply 11):
Looks like it just did:

Interesting. Of course the spotter gives the pilot a break and says something about wind shear and the pilot saving everyone.

Uh-huh.

Looking at the METARS, wind shear seems unlikely, although certainly possible given how weather changes in Texas. Nevertheless, both the photo and the METARS seem to describe a sunny day with minimal weather.

I'd love to know the experience level of the flight deck crew.

Looking at the METARS gives you the weather at that specific time and nothing else. Maybe it was different at the time of touch down, although the trend seems it was pretty consistent. The weather also doesn't give you the winds 100 or 200 feet off the ground.....

There could be a number of reasons this could happen....
 
D L X
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:04 pm

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 17):
Looking at the METARS gives you the weather at that specific time and nothing else. Maybe it was different at the time of touch down, although the trend seems it was pretty consistent. The weather also doesn't give you the winds 100 or 200 feet off the ground.....

There could be a number of reasons this could happen....

Judging by the background of the photo and the very high brightness of the sun's reflection on the fuselage, I'd venture to say there wasn't a cloud in the sky. Those aren't conditions where you'd expect extreme swirling winds, are they?
 
C767P
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:06 pm

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 16):

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think pilots at SkyWest can jump between CRJ-200s, 700s, and 900s randomly during a trip. Is Mesa the same way?

I believe SkyWest is the only CRJ operator to do it that way.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:13 pm

Quoting C767P (Reply 19):

I'm pretty sure PSA does the same thing as well.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
ericm2031
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:13 pm

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 16):

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think pilots at SkyWest can jump between CRJ-200s, 700s, and 900s randomly during a trip. Is Mesa the same way? If so maybe the pilot just flew a few CRJ-200 legs and underestimated the length of the -900s wings. Again, please correct me if I wrong about pilots jumping from type to type as I'm not 100% sure.


Mesa does not fly many types of aircraft. For AA/US they only fly -900's and I believe 1 spare -200. And then they fly some 175's for UA.
 
Whiteguy
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:19 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 18):
Judging by the background of the photo and the very high brightness of the sun's reflection on the fuselage, I'd venture to say there wasn't a cloud in the sky. Those aren't conditions where you'd expect extreme swirling winds, are they?

You'd be surprised, you could have a clear sunny day and have gusty wind conditions and upper level flows that don't quite reach the surface.

Quoting C767P (Reply 19):

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 16):

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think pilots at SkyWest can jump between CRJ-200s, 700s, and 900s randomly during a trip. Is Mesa the same way?

I believe SkyWest is the only CRJ operator to do it that way.

Jazz also operates this way...
 
32andBelow
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:34 pm

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 16):

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think pilots at SkyWest can jump between CRJ-200s, 700s, and 900s randomly during a trip. Is Mesa the same way? If so maybe the pilot just flew a few CRJ-200 legs and underestimated the length of the -900s wings. Again, please correct me if I wrong about pilots jumping from type to type as I'm not 100% sure.

Isn't the goal to keep the wings pretty much flat in all cases?
 
superjeff
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:48 pm

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 16):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think pilots at SkyWest can jump between CRJ-200s, 700s, and 900s randomly during a trip. Is Mesa the same way? If so maybe the pilot just flew a few CRJ-200 legs and underestimated the length of the -900s wings. Again, please correct me if I wrong about pilots jumping from type to type as I'm not 100% sure.

I didn't think Mesa has any 200's any more. Got rid of them during their bankruptcy.
 
airmec7
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:51 pm

Mesa also fly's -700 for UA also
 
D L X
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:09 pm

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 22):
You'd be surprised, you could have a clear sunny day and have gusty wind conditions and upper level flows that don't quite reach the surface.

Interesting. I would have suspected that variable wind conditions would necessarily result in clouds. But then again, clouds that low don't happen either.
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:24 pm

Quoting superjeff (Reply 24):

Mesa has 1 CRJ200 that sits in the corner of some airport for pilot pay purposes.

No one is trained on it, it is just sets the base pilot rate for all soft pay such as PTO, reserve, etc. Mesa can point to the airplane and say it's still on property so we don't have to pay you the "700" rate when you are not flying it- they even do it for the e175 pilots.
 
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litz
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:28 pm

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 22):
You'd be surprised, you could have a clear sunny day and have gusty wind conditions and upper level flows that don't quite reach the surface.

Is this area mountainous?

You can get some really weird swirling winds off mountains in clear daylight.
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:33 pm

Could have been clear air turbulence (CAT). METAR showed 31.1C (almost 90F). That's rather warm so there could have been some strong thermals. Not enough to cause any adverse weather events (especially with high pressure) but enough to have caused stronger rising action on one side than the other (and this is an event not picked up by radar...hence, clear air turbulence).
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
flightsimer
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:49 pm

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 9):

Those are all automated metars. Flying aerial survey which is entirely weather dependent, I have come to realize that automated stations more often then not are not fully true.

Just yesterday I had 6 different airports calling clear yet there were scattered clouds all over around 4,000ft.
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
INFINITI329
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:58 pm

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 30):

I only read it up to the visibility, i probably should have read the whole thing

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 27):
No one is trained on it, it is just sets the base pilot rate for all soft pay such as PTO, reserve, etc. Mesa can point to the airplane and say it's still on property so we don't have to pay you the "700" rate when you are not flying it- they even do it for the e175 pilots.

Im a little confused by this, can expand on it a little more in depth.
 
TUSDawg23
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:35 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 29):

Could have been clear air turbulence (CAT). METAR showed 31.1C (almost 90F). That's rather warm so there could have been some strong thermals. Not enough to cause any adverse weather events (especially with high pressure) but enough to have caused stronger rising action on one side than the other (and this is an event not picked up by radar...hence, clear air turbulence).

CAT occurs at much higher altitudes than this up in the troposphere so I doubt that was a contributing factor. It would not surprise me though if the warm, unstable air caused a few bumps on the ride down.
 
Maverick623
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:43 pm

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 27):
Mesa has 1 CRJ200 that sits in the corner of some airport for pilot pay purposes.

It's in PHX. N407SW, ship MJW, known as "Casper" due to it's all-white paint. Also known as a hunk of junk.

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 27):
No one is trained on it

Not true. I've seen that plane sent out on flights as recently as a month ago (and I don't really pay attention to it that much). It is used as an "operational spare", although with its own MX issues it rarely gets routed out, and even when it does it rarely dispatches due to the gremlins on board.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
AAtakeMeAway
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:58 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 29):
Is this area mountainous?

You can get some really weird swirling winds off mountains in clear daylight.

It is not mountainous. You may be thinking of ELP.
 
motif1
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:30 am

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 27):
Mesa has 1 CRJ200 that sits in the corner of some airport for pilot pay purposes.
Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 31):
Im a little confused by this, can expand on it a little more in depth.

web500sjc,
I second infiniti329's question. Do you mind elaborating on the relation between that plane and the pay scale?

Thanks!

M1
Not only is this incomprehensible but the ink is ugly and the paper is from the wrong kind of tree
 
flightsimer
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:46 am

Quoting motif1 (Reply 35):

By the sounds of it...

The CRJ-200 is the smallest plane in their fleet and therefore it would be reasonable for it to have the lowest pay rate for anyone who flies it. But by the sounds of it, the company pays reserve time, PTO, etc at the lowest pilot pay rate within the company, not whatever your actual pay rate may be based off of what plane you fly. So by keeping the CRJ-200 on the line, a CRJ7/9 or E175 pilot gets paid at the CRJ2 rate when sitting reserve or using PTO. If they park it, then the CRJ7 pay rate would be used for all pilots since it would then be the smallest.

**I am not posting this as a fact, I am just explaining what he was saying in his post.
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
C767P
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:46 am

Quoting motif1 (Reply 35):
I second infiniti329's question. Do you mind elaborating on the relation between that plane and the pay scale?

Some airlines put all soft pay on the lowest paid airplane. So you might fly a CR9 with a higher pay rate but if you DH you get the CRJ pay.
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:23 am

Quoting C767P (Reply 37):
Some airlines put all soft pay on the lowest paid airplane. So you might fly a CR9 with a higher pay rate but if you DH you get the CRJ pay.

There a different ways airlines break up CRJ pay. Generally the 200 pilots will be in a separate pilot group than the 700/900 pilots.

OO has all pilots qualified on all thee and the pilots could fly all three in the same month. OO officially pays an override for 700 or 900 time, meaning all non flying compensation is paid at the 200 rate.

In 2012 Mesa, despite having no 200 operation in the CLT and IAD, was able to convince the arbitrator during a grievance hearing that the contract allowed the pilots in those bases to be paid for non flying duties at the 200 rate. Now, despite having next to no 200 operations, the pilots are paid at the 200 rate for soft pay.
 
INFINITI329
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:06 am

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 38):

I can digest OO's approach to it, but YV seems very sketching and sneaky Even their website doesn't even list the CRJ as part of their fleet only the CR7,CR9 & E175. I would love to read the wording in this clause. If anyone can post the text of said article that would be much appreciated. Is this a major issue with the pilot group or is it just a small bump in the road?
 
Woodreau
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:01 pm

Paying a pilot the lowest aircraft rate for soft time is a typical airline payment scheme.

American Eagle (Envoy) does the same thing. Although there are no EMB-135 operations anymore, EMB pilots are paid at the EMB-135 pilot rate for sick time, vacation. Actually Envoy takes it a step further.

They implement something called pay banding, where your pay is determined by your seniority, not the aircraft you fly.
You could be a CRJ-700 captain, but because you just upgraded and are the junior captain in the entire system. Your seniority cannot hold CRJ-700 captain pay. So you are paid EMB-135 captain pay, until your seniority can hold CRJ-700 captain pay (which might be a long time because there are fewer CRJ-700s in the system, compared to EMB-135/140/145s)
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
Sevensixtyseven
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:07 pm

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 36):

It is a purely financial decision. I've seen 407SW at the gate in PHX and also in whatever corner they manage to sling it into between flights. Word has it that more than a few pilots have outright refused to fly it after their scheduled CRJ-900 frame has gone kaput for whatever reason, citing autobrake safety issues among other things "I haven't flown the -200 in months...". It is indeed a piece of junk, mechanically and otherwise, but they keep it around for the financial reasons and to fly the random flight when it happens to play nice with the dispatchers. In this case, it's worse to hear "Our scheduled aircraft has been substituted for a smaller one"..
I call the dusty desert my home. :)
 
motif1
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RE: US Airways Express Wingstrike @ Mcallen Miller Int

Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:28 pm

Thank you flightsimer, C767P, web500sjc and everybody else who contributed! Very illuminating.

M1
Not only is this incomprehensible but the ink is ugly and the paper is from the wrong kind of tree

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