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WearyDrover
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UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:08 am

Looks like United could be facing a fine after allowing a passenger to board a flight to Australia.

Troy Newman was due to arrive on a speaking tour when his visa was cancelled. He was denied boarding in Denver but was subsequently able to fly to Melbourne despite not having authorisation. Newman has been detained and is in the custody of the Australian Border Force until his deportation can be arranged.

My question is, how is it possible that a passenger be permitted to board without proper documentation? What steps are required go be followed in an era of electronic visas to pick up on the fact that a visa may have been cancelled?

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-1...-after-flying-to-melbourne/6819410

[Edited 2015-09-30 21:22:10]
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coolian2
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:19 am

Wow that guy comes across as a total piece of work.
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FlyingSicilian
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:32 am

I hope that got it filmed for Border Security Australia. I'd love to see the video from the holding cell.
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rwsea
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:36 am

How would UA know if the visa was cancelled? My guess is that they simply look for an ETA print out, or a visa physically in the passport. If either of these are present, they would likely allow a passenger to board. I've never seen an airline actually look up the validity of a specific visa in any sort of computer system.
 
WearyDrover
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:45 am

Quoting rwsea (Reply 3):

How would UA know if the visa was cancelled?

Good question. Are the airlines not required to provide API and would this not indicate whether a visa was valid or not?
According to the report he was prevented from flying in Denver. How would the airline there have known at that stage the passenger would be unable to continue to Australia?
A man may learn wisdom even from a foe - Aristophanes
 
ericm2031
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:47 am

UA's system looks up the validity at check-in and won't allow you to check-in if it does not find a match for the visa. You can pull up the validity of an ETA in Shares, but there is no reason to if check-in was successful. I would assume everything past this point would just be normal passport check until arriving in Australia.
 
OB1504
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:47 am

Quoting rwsea (Reply 3):
How would UA know if the visa was cancelled? My guess is that they simply look for an ETA print out, or a visa physically in the passport. If either of these are present, they would likely allow a passenger to board. I've never seen an airline actually look up the validity of a specific visa in any sort of computer system.

I do it every day for the Australian ETA. I love their system because I can look it up in my computer rather than having to look through the passport for a visa or a stamp. The agent who checked him in will likely face disciplinary action if he's not fired outright.

Airlines inadvertently boarding inadmissible passengers is a regular—if unfortunate—occurrence and hardly merits a thread.
 
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csturdiv
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:49 am

Quoting rwsea (Reply 3):
How would UA know if the visa was cancelled? My guess is that they simply look for an ETA print out, or a visa physically in the passport. If either of these are present, they would likely allow a passenger to board. I've never seen an airline actually look up the validity of a specific visa in any sort of computer system.

When I moved to Australia, I flew AA out of ORD to LAX then QF to SYD. When checking in at ORD they asked for my visa and I just said that it was electronic and tied to my passport. I had no physical piece of paper from the Australian government to show them. And if I remember correctly, I think the agent just took my word for it and checked me into my flights and gave me the boarding passes. And earlier in the year I flew to HNL and when flying back to SYD, they didn't even ask.
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD
 
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LAXintl
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:32 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 6):

Airlines inadvertently boarding inadmissible passengers is a regular—if unfortunate—occurrence and hardly merits a thread.

  

Likely happens hundreds if not thousand times every day around the world.

Out of millions of people transported either human error or technology fails and mistakes are made.
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AA737-823
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:25 am

Wait a minute, folks... help me out, here.

I've never traveled to Australia (sadly).
But I have been to many other countries, as a US citizen.
Are you telling me that Australia requires a Visa BEFORE they'll let you enter??
Doesn't that put them on the same level as most third world / non-friendly countries like China, Vietnam, and Russia??

This comes as a big surprise to me.
Going to Japan, Singapore, or many European countries, you simply walk up and smile while they stamp a Visa into your passport!
 
joffie
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:29 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
Are you telling me that Australia requires a Visa BEFORE they'll let you enter??

I believe US citizens need to apply and pay $20 AUD for a visa. http://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/601-

Remember, USA charge Australians $14 USD for ESTA. https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/
 
WearyDrover
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:36 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):

Yes, with the exception of citizens of New Zealand, travellers to Australia require a visa or an electronic travel authority before leaving home. This is despite the fact that many countries allow Australian tourists visa free entry.

With regard to the US, Australians need to obtain an ETA to the US unless they are in a class that requires a visa. I don't consider that makes the US unfriendly or third world.  
A man may learn wisdom even from a foe - Aristophanes
 
Andy33
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:41 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
Are you telling me that Australia requires a Visa BEFORE they'll let you enter??
Doesn't that put them on the same level as most third world / non-friendly countries like China, Vietnam, and Russia??

Just like the United States requires a visa (or a pre-approved ESTA visa waiver, which we have to pay for) for a UK citizen, from a country you've been allied with for nearly a hundred years. Third world/non friendly are your words, not mine, but.....
Luckily for US citizens, the UK doesn't reciprocate.
 
coolian2
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:46 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
you simply walk up and smile while they stamp a Visa into your passport!

Wouldn't it be nice if it was the same in the first world United States?


Anyway reading more on this clearly the guy is an idiot intent on making a headline for his nutty views. I just hope he hasn't taken a relatively innocent airline employee down with him.
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Max Q
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:53 am

Australia simply doesn't let people into their country easily.


Ironic bearing in mind their ancestors !
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BoeingVista
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:02 am

Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 11):
Yes, with the exception of citizens of New Zealand, travellers to Australia require a visa or an electronic travel authority before leaving home. This is despite the fact that many countries allow Australian tourists visa free entry.

Even NZ citizens require a visa, its just automatically issued on presentaton of a valid Passport

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 7):
When I moved to Australia, I flew AA out of ORD to LAX then QF to SYD. When checking in at ORD they asked for my visa and I just said that it was electronic and tied to my passport. I had no physical piece of paper from the Australian government to show them. And if I remember correctly, I think the agent just took my word for it and checked me into my flights and gave me the boarding passes.

Visa is bound to passport, when it is swiped visa validity would be being checked. If agent just took your word for it she should be fired.

Quoting ericm2031 (Reply 5):
UA's system looks up the validity at check-in and won't allow you to check-in if it does not find a match for the visa. You can pull up the validity of an ETA in Shares, but there is no reason to if check-in was successful. I would assume everything past this point would just be normal passport check until arriving in Australia.

Which brings us to how this was allowed to happen, I can hear the gears working in this guys head, my guess is that he bought anoter international flight via LAX and then crashed the united gate lounge and was allowed to board. This is pbviously a huge security breach and should earn this muppet a procesution stateside and his own place on the no fly list.

Either that or he just hopped a QF flight but either way somebody has a lot of explaining to do.
BV
 
CPH-R
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:11 am

According to the Guardian, he was told he could appeal the ban, but would that allow him to go ahead with the flight?

http://www.theguardian.com/australia...n-detained-by-customs-in-melbourne

There's even a bit of video taken by his supporters of the gate crew at DEN, telling him why he wouldn't be permitted to board the flight.
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:16 am

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 16):
According to the Guardian, he was told he could appeal the ban, but would that allow him to go ahead with the flight?

Nope. He has no visa whilst refusal it is being appealed he cannot fly to Australia.

The minsiter clearly states in the article that the airline faces fines for carrying him, fine is more than $10,000 I think.
BV
 
flyboy_se
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:18 am

Australia has a pretty good system. I think most airlines check-in systems are linked to a database. At my previous company you would get an OK to board message. If there is no visa or the visa is not valid, you would recieve a not OK to board message, and the system would inhibit boarding pass printing. So unless the visa is OK, no way you can board the passenger. If you ever had an issue, you call their hotline number, and they were always friendly and very efficient. One of the easiest most user friendly systems i ever worked with.

Not sure how he was allowed to board, unless he maybe did online check-in, and his visa was cancelled after that, and the agent did not re-verify the visa upon bag drop ( if he did drop of a bag).
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BoeingVista
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:22 am

Quoting flyboy_se (Reply 18):
Australia has a pretty good system. I think most airlines check-in systems are linked to a database. At my previous company you would get an OK to board message. If there is no visa or the visa is not valid, you would recieve a not OK to board message, and the system would inhibit boarding pass printing.

In the video he seems to be waving boading passes, question is what is the system at the gate, does it recheck visa validity, I'm guessing not.
BV
 
zkncj
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:25 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 15):
Even NZ citizens require a visa, its just automatically issued on presentaton of a valid Passport

Which is granted on arrival, and not check-in.


It's not un-common for it to happen Cathy Pacific was recently fined $6500 in New Zealand for an passenger without an visa (http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/279988/cathay-pacific-fined-over-bahraini-passenger)
 
flyboy_se
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:56 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 19):
In the video he seems to be waving boading passes, question is what is the system at the gate, does it recheck visa validity, I'm guessing not.

I cannot tell about UA system, but on my previous carrier, it would not be possible to even board him. The systems were connected, so any change in the visa before departure it would immidiately inhibit boarding.
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readytotaxi
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:45 am

Well if this guy can make it there,perhaps there is hope for Chris Brown.   
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Sydscott
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:19 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 19):
In the video he seems to be waving boading passes, question is what is the system at the gate, does it recheck visa validity, I'm guessing not.

If you watch the video, the people at the gate are telling him that he can't fly onwards because he doesn't have a Visa. So the fact that he was then able to fly onwards, without a Visa, was a pretty silly decision by United. (Which as an airline has been flying here for donkeys years so would know how the system works) It'd be almost as dumb as an airline allowing Chris Brown to board and flying him to Australia since he has also been denied a Visa.

The other critical thing to remember is that if a person is in Australia and the Minister for Immigration is the person who cancels the Visa, rather than a departmental official, there are no grounds for that decision to be appealed to the Migration Tribunal. So unless you can get the Federal Court to stay deportation, which rarely happens, then you'll be out on the next flight. In this case it appears that it was the Minister personally that cancelled the Visa.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 14):
Australia simply doesn't let people into their country easily.


Ironic bearing in mind their ancestors !

You can only get in by sea or air. So it's easy to keep the undesirables out.

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 22):
Well if this guy can make it there,perhaps there is hope for Chris Brown

There is a chance he could actually arrive in the Country. But then he'd be detained, sent to immigration detention and then sent home.
 
thegoldenargosy
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:55 am

I can see why Australia cancelled his visa.
 
ChinaClipper40
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:03 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
But I have been to many other countries, as a US citizen. Are you telling me that Australia requires a Visa BEFORE they'll let you enter?? Doesn't that put them on the same level as most third world / non-friendly countries like China, Vietnam, and Russia??

Yes, as noted above, for everyone except New Zealanders. These visa requirements are set out in the Migration Act 1958 and the Migration Regulations. Aside from New Zealanders, I believe that the only other exception is for residents of Norfolk Island. That much having been said, I must say that the Australians have a very fast and user-friendly electronic application and approval process for obtaining an electronic visa for entry into Australia. But, bottom line, everyone except New Zealanders and Norfolk Island residents must have an Australian electronic entry visa BEFORE boarding their aircraft for the flight to Australia. And, no, it doesn't put them on a third world level. Unless, of course, you consider the United States to be third world (which some would argue is accurate, given the appalling state of education and infrastructure maintenance and development in the U.S). After all, the U.S. requires a visa even for simply transiting through or changing planes at a U.S. Airport, without ever leaving the airport. And this U.S. requirement applies even to citizens of countries eligible for the so-called U.S. Visa Waiver Program. That is a deceptive name. Because even citizens of Visa Waiver eligible countries must obtain approval to transit through the U.S. via the Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA) system BEFORE travel to the United States. Arguably, the U.S. system is more unfriendly to visitors (even from places like Great Britain or Ireland) than the Australian system.
 
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SuseJ772
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:06 pm

Is this new? I swear when I went to Australia in 2006 I didn't get a visa before landing. I thought the process worked exactly like Europe.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
flyboy_se
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:14 pm

Quoting susej772 (Reply 26):
Is this new? I swear when I went to Australia in 2006 I didn't get a visa before landing. I thought the process worked exactly like Europe.

It has been around for a while. Did you book through a travel agency? Because from travel agencies and airlines reservation systems it is really easy to issue ETA. It takes less than 2 minutes and gets approved instantly.
So it could be your travel agent just did it for you, if you in fact did book through a travel agent.
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Gemuser
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:15 pm

Quoting susej772 (Reply 26):

Is this new? I swear when I went to Australia in 2006 I didn't get a visa before landing. I thought the process worked exactly like Europe.

If you didn't get arrested on arrival then you had one. If you used a travel agent they did it for you, the system uses airline GDS. I don't remember when it was introduced I am pretty sure it was before 2000. [Ryanair, you got a better date?]

Gemuser
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815Oceanic
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:29 pm

I called UA three times, went to the airport the day before, checked in and went through a documents check and everyone told me I was okay to fly to transit through China without a visa. They were all wrong. If I hadn't offered to reroute myself to connect in the US instead, I'd be more mad at myself for not getting the right visa. Point is, visas are confusing and even many UA employees don't know what is necessary. It sucks and I was furious, but it happens.
 
winginit
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:35 pm

Quoting 815Oceanic (Reply 29):
I called UA three times, went to the airport the day before, checked in and went through a documents check and everyone told me I was okay to fly to transit through China without a visa.

How recently was this? If it was in the past year or so and you were transiting through either PEK, PVG, or I believe CAN isn't that the case given the 72 hour rule?
 
us330
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:38 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 15):
Either that or he just hopped a QF flight but either way somebody has a lot of explaining to do.
Quoting ericm2031 (Reply 5):
UA's system looks up the validity at check-in and won't allow you to check-in if it does not find a match for the visa. You can pull up the validity of an ETA in Shares, but there is no reason to if check-in was successful. I would assume everything past this point would just be normal passport check until arriving in Australia.

This is on United. According to the video, it says that he and his wife both checked in at Wichita and were headed to Melbourne via DEN and LAX. So their routing was ICT-DEN-LAX-MEL, but they were denied boarding at DEN for the DEN-LAX segment, and flew on another airline instead. Wouldn't this automatically cancel the LAX-MEL leg of the itinerary?
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:26 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 20):
Which is granted on arrival, and not check-in.

Yes, carrying a NZ passport has the presumption that a SCV 444 will be issued by ABF on arrival providing that you meet the visa conditions, but if I remember PP is still swiped at check in so presumably it is still checked against a list of NZ citizens who are not eligible for a SCV 444 visa, NZ citizens can be and routinely are refused entry at Australian border control, mostly on character grounds. Point being its still a proper visa with real visa conditions that have to me met, no countries citizens are allowed into Australia with out a visa, Australian citizens conversly are no allowed to hold Australian visas and thus legally are not allowed to enter Australia on a passport issued by any other country (as that would amongst other things lead to the issuing of a visa that they are not permitted to hold).

Quoting gemuser (Reply 28):
If you didn't get arrested on arrival then you had one. If you used a travel agent they did it for you, the system uses airline GDS. I don't remember when it was introduced I am pretty sure it was before 2000. [Ryanair, you got a better date?]

Yup pretty sure my TA did this for me in 2000 on my first RTW.
BV
 
bgm
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:00 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
Are you telling me that Australia requires a Visa BEFORE they'll let you enter??

Exactly the same as your country's ESTA.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
Doesn't that put them on the same level as most third world / non-friendly countries like China, Vietnam, and Russia??

Might want to add the US to that list (see above).   

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
This comes as a big surprise to me.
Going to Japan, Singapore, or many European countries, you simply walk up and smile while they stamp a Visa into your passport!

Definitely a lot more pleasant than the "welcome" visitors get when they pass through US immigration.
 
815Oceanic
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:11 pm

Quoting winginit (Reply 30):

Yes with the exception that you cannot fly from one country through China and back to your country. I flew ORD-PVG-GUM. Not okay.
 
OB1504
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:15 pm

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 7):
When I moved to Australia, I flew AA out of ORD to LAX then QF to SYD. When checking in at ORD they asked for my visa and I just said that it was electronic and tied to my passport. I had no physical piece of paper from the Australian government to show them. And if I remember correctly, I think the agent just took my word for it and checked me into my flights and gave me the boarding passes. And earlier in the year I flew to HNL and when flying back to SYD, they didn't even ask.

In all likelihood the agent looked it up in the computer. I don't bother to ask for an Australian visa because I have to go by what the computer says anyway. Not asking for it isn't the same as not checking for it.

Quoting flyboy_se (Reply 18):

Australia has a pretty good system. I think most airlines check-in systems are linked to a database. At my previous company you would get an OK to board message. If there is no visa or the visa is not valid, you would recieve a not OK to board message, and the system would inhibit boarding pass printing. So unless the visa is OK, no way you can board the passenger. If you ever had an issue, you call their hotline number, and they were always friendly and very efficient. One of the easiest most user friendly systems i ever worked with.

   At my carrier, the agent must manually check for the ETA and then enter the expiration date, though our system does automatically inhibit check-in without ESTA. Agreed that the ETA system is wonderful; it's my favorite visa system in the entire world.
 
copter808
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:17 pm

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 13):
Wouldn't it be nice if it was the same in the first world United States?

Yes, but we (the US) are working hard to become a "Third World" country. And our leaders haven't figured out that most countries reciprocate on the visa fees. (You screw me, then I'll screw you back!)

Quoting bgm (Reply 33):
Definitely a lot more pleasant than the "welcome" visitors get when they pass through US immigration.

Unfortunately quite true in many cases. And I see NO justification for it. Although I have personally never had a problem with US immigration checks (US citizen) and only once with a Thai immigration officer.

Quoting 815Oceanic (Reply 34):
Yes with the exception that you cannot fly from one country through China and back to your country. I flew ORD-PVG-GUM. Not okay.

Interesting, I didn't know that either. GUM is also a unique situation in some ways. Sometimes considered part of the US, and in other ways not.
 
VAM8789
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:23 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
Wait a minute, folks... help me out, here.

I've never traveled to Australia (sadly).
But I have been to many other countries, as a US citizen.
Are you telling me that Australia requires a Visa BEFORE they'll let you enter??
Doesn't that put them on the same level as most third world / non-friendly countries like China, Vietnam, and Russia??

This comes as a big surprise to me.
Going to Japan, Singapore, or many European countries, you simply walk up and smile while they stamp a Visa into your passport!

It's a very simple process to get a visitor Visa for Australia. Go on the government's website, enter your information, pay a fee and they electronically attach it to your passport. That way when the airline scans your passport at check-in they know if you have a valid Visa. I've been down to Australia twice and the process is very simple and easy.
 
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aloha73g
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:59 pm

I get that Australia can deny him from entering Australia, and therefore prevent UA from flying him LAX-MEL. What I don't get is why UA wouldn't fly him from DEN-LAX if he wanted to proceed to LAX knowing that his LAX-MEL reservation was cancelled.

-Aloha!
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sfuk
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:06 pm

Canada has just started the process of requiring an ETA before arrival in to the country. Citizens of countries that do require a visa are required to obtain the ETA.

Only US citizens are exempt from this, in the same way Canadian citizens are exempt from the US ETA.

S
 
stratacruiser
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:15 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
Are you telling me that Australia requires a Visa BEFORE they'll let you enter??

I found that out recently when I went to check in for a BR flight from TPE to BRE....was shocked when the agent scanned my passport and asked about a visa. While I was telling him that couldn't possibly be right as I was using a US passport, I was also checking my smartphone and finding that yes, indeed, Americans need a visa. The good news is that third party sites can turn around the ETA request in about thirty minutes, so I was able to apply from my phone and still make the flight. Live and learn!

Dave
 
jetwet1
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:38 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 6):
Airlines inadvertently boarding inadmissible passengers is a regular—if unfortunate—occurrence and hardly merits a thread.

Very true.

Quoting copter808 (Reply 36):
Unfortunately quite true in many cases. And I see NO justification for it. Although I have personally never had a problem with US immigration checks

Yeah, US immigration is the pits, for some reason that nobody can figure out, there is something floating around on my profile that flags me maybe 50% of the time when entering the US, normally it's a quick trip to the office, a few head scratches and sorry have a nice day. I even went so far as to have an immigration judge enter a note into my profile, but that requires reading, which isn't actually a talent of some officers. For some reason ATL is the worst, MIA and FFL are not a problem.
 
AnsettB727
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:57 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
Are you telling me that Australia requires a Visa BEFORE they'll let you enter??
Doesn't that put them on the same level as most third world / non-friendly countries like China, Vietnam, and Russia??

With the greatest of respect, my country is not Third World, nor is it non-friendly. Many First World countries, including the big ones like the UK and Germany, require a visa for citizens of certain countries before entry for a specific purpose (not necessarily always for tourism). You should always check the requirements of the country you are visiting before you book a trip. Never just assume because you're from a 'nice country' that the country you're entering agrees.
 
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:07 pm

Quoting WearyDrover (Thread starter):
My question is, how is it possible that a passenger be permitted to board without proper documentation?

Happens all the time. Given the complexity of things, it's a relatively infrequent occurrence in absolute numbers relative to number of pax flown, but it is an incredibly complicated formula.

You have to consider the origin nation, destination nation (which has it's own rules), AND the citizenship of the traveler AND whether they are transiting, and so on. The permutations of such can invoke different documentation requirements. It's dizzying, actually.
 
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caoimhin
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:16 pm

What is the functional difference between eVisitor and ETA visas? The fee? It seems as though both have the same requirements and offer the same stay duration.
 
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ua900
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:34 pm

Quoting caoimhin (Reply 44):
What is the functional difference between eVisitor and ETA visas? The fee? It seems as though both have the same requirements and offer the same stay duration.

Australia can be done by the UA agent at check in. Small fee, fast process, takes like 2 minutes, UA doesn't charge extra for processing that on your behalf.

ESTA isn't done by UA, though some airports have agents who will process it for you for a 40 Euro (or similar) fee, on top of the actual ESTA fee. The process takes about 20 minutes and far more information is required, and I believe maybe one extra hoop somewhere in the process.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 14):
Australia simply doesn't let people into their country easily.Ironic bearing in mind their ancestors !

You know that the UK used to send its prisoners to the U.S. prior to 1776 and only started using Australia after that, right?

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
Are you telling me that Australia requires a Visa BEFORE they'll let you enter??

It's an e-Visa that can easily be obtained at the airport when checking in. Airlines will do it for you on check in if you don't already have one. Show your valid passport on check in, pay the small fee, easy peasy. Easier than getting a tourist card in Latin America. And nothing like Russia or Red China where you need to go through a consulate with paperwork and wait.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
Going to Japan, Singapore, or many European countries, you simply walk up and smile while they stamp a Visa into your passport!

That's not a visa, just an entry stamp. Travel itself is visa-free provided you leave within a certain number of days. Australia has these too and the process of entering is much less tedious than say with ESTA where you need to state who you are, your occupation, your reason for visiting, your address(es) while in the U.S., any follow-up questions.
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jetblastdubai
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:12 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
Are you telling me that Australia requires a Visa BEFORE they'll let you enter??
Doesn't that put them on the same level as most third world / non-friendly countries like China, Vietnam, and Russia??

I don't have a list of all the countries where a visa is required to have BEFORE you leave the US but my work takes me to a few places where it does.

When I worked in Dubai, the UA ticket agent at my home airport was always prompted to physically see the work visa pasted in my US passport because I never had a return ticket back to the US as the US-DXB leg was always my return. The airline needed to either verify that I had a return ticket to the US or a valid work visa for the UAE.

Now that I work in Iraq, the same restriction applies for my return trip thru IST (Turkey recently required US citizens to get a visa prior to entry although you can get it online in 2 minutes for $20 or at a kiosk at IST 50 feet from the immigration que) For my leg to Baghdad, we only travel with a photocopy of the Iraqi visa approval letter.

Last time I went through IST, the ticket agent noticed that the passport number was off by 1 digit on the photocopy and they wouldn't let me fly. My company contacted the Iraqi Interior Minister and they corrected the typo in their system but would not email a new visa approval letter as these visa letters include up to 20 different names and they didn't want to send out new letters to the other 19 on the list.

After 3 days of schmoozing everyone that looked important at IST to somehow allow me to fly with only a verbal correction to my visa list, TK finally allowed me to sign a release that said I was travelling at my own risk and if I was not allowed entry into Iraq at BGW airport, I would be solely responsible for purchasing my own transportation back to Istanbul. The Iraqis didn't even look at the paperwork...they just took the $200 and I was out in 5 minutes. The Iraqi exit visas are a bit more challenging to process and they're only valid for 10 days and are $450 each time you leave.
 
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:19 pm

Quoting copter808 (Reply 36):
Interesting, I didn't know that either. GUM is also a unique situation in some ways. Sometimes considered part of the US, and in other ways not.

Guam has its own customs union and separate customs officers.

They also have their own visa waiver system separate from the US which allows Russians, for example, 30 days in their VWP while they would need a Visa stateside.
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747megatop
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:48 pm

Quoting joffie (Reply 10):
I believe US citizens need to apply and pay $20 AUD for a visa. http://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/601-

Remember, USA charge Australians $14 USD for ESTA. https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/

I was under the impression that US citizens don't need a visa for visiting Australia similar to when visiting countries like NZ, Japan, UK, France etc. I visited Japan last year and didn't need a visa nor did i have to get an electronic travel authority before boarding the flight. So, this is interesting information that you just provided!
 
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RE: UA Carries Pax To Australia Despite Lack Of Visa

Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:56 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 49):
I was under the impression that US citizens don't need a visa for visiting Australia similar to when visiting countries like NZ, Japan, UK, France etc. I visited Japan last year and didn't need a visa nor did i have to get an electronic travel authority before boarding the flight.

The process is so seamless and so much in the background that it's easy to overlook, save for the 20 bucks.
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