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elbandgeek
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SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:06 pm

https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2015/10/01/skywest-inc-chooses-surface-and-windows-10-over-ipad-for-7500-pilots/

Airlines replacing flight bags with tablets (of varying platforms) isn't really new, but to my knowledge OO/EV would be the first regionals to do so (correct me if I'm wrong). For all the choices airlines have with these either iPads or Windows or Android tablets and I'm happy to see Microsoft get some love. I know a few carriers use the Surface Pro but I think the non-pro is probably the best overall option because it has the size and weight benefit but also now has an intel atom CPU running full Windows as opposed to the ARM based RT (which I believe DL uses). For what it's being used for it doesn't really need the high-end specs of the pro but has the option for classic programs in addition to new style windows 10 apps.
 
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boeingrulz
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:56 pm

Does anyone know if these electronic flight bag tablets are subject to any FAA regulations?
 
32andBelow
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:05 pm

Quoting boeingrulz (Reply 1):

Does anyone know if these electronic flight bag tablets are subject to any FAA regulations?

They need to be approved by the FAA to be used in the cockpit.
 
N1120A
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:12 pm

Quoting elbandgeek (Thread starter):
I know a few carriers use the Surface Pro but I think the non-pro is probably the best overall option because it has the size and weight benefit but also now has an intel atom CPU running full Windows as opposed to the ARM based RT (which I believe DL uses).

Yeah - the new Surface 3 is a major step up from the old RT ones. They have full Windows, so they can put programs that are not Windows apps on the computer. This is a good thing if they want to do things like put a reservations system on the computers.
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C767P
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:14 pm

Quoting elbandgeek (Thread starter):
Airlines replacing flight bags with tablets (of varying platforms) isn't really new, but to my knowledge OO/EV would be the first regionals to do so (correct me if I'm wrong).

Envoy, Compass and Republic have iPads. I don't believe any of them are required to have paper backups.

XE/EV has been receiving the Surface 3 since late July or early August.
 
Mir
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:15 pm

Quoting elbandgeek (Thread starter):
Airlines replacing flight bags with tablets (of varying platforms) isn't really new, but to my knowledge OO/EV would be the first regionals to do so (correct me if I'm wrong).

Envoy has already done it.

-Mir
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ScottB
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:20 pm

Quoting elbandgeek (Thread starter):
For all the choices airlines have with these either iPads or Windows or Android tablets and I'm happy to see Microsoft buy some love.

Fixed that for you...

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
They have full Windows, so they can put programs that are not Windows apps on the computer. This is a good thing if they want to do things like put a reservations system on the computers.

Most of those sorts of applications can be delivered through a web browser these days. And if SkyWest, Inc. were going to use custom enterprise apps on those tablets, you can bet MSFT would have highlighted it.
 
N1120A
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:39 pm

Quoting C767P (Reply 4):

Envoy, Compass and Republic have iPads. I don't believe any of them are required to have paper backups.

I'm a little surprised Envoy would have iPads and not Samsung, given how AA has gone.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 6):
Most of those sorts of applications can be delivered through a web browser these days. And if SkyWest, Inc. were going to use custom enterprise apps on those tablets, you can bet MSFT would have highlighted it.

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durangomac
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:53 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 6):
And if SkyWest, Inc. were going to use custom enterprise apps on those tablets, you can bet MSFT would have highlighted it.

Apps are already being developed and the Manual application was built in house. I suspect they will see a lot of apps built by the IT group specifically for the pilots.
 
Mir
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:07 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
I'm a little surprised Envoy would have iPads and not Samsung, given how AA has gone.

AA has iPads in the cockpit as well.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
N1120A
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:16 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
AA has iPads in the cockpit as well.

I thought they used Galaxy Tabs but just found they didn't. Was that the initial option?
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Mir
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:55 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
I thought they used Galaxy Tabs but just found they didn't. Was that the initial option?

As far as I know, they've never used anything but iPads. iPads were the first EFB application of a generic tablet - it took some time for others to follow - and AA was a pretty early adopter (IIRC, either they or AS were the first airline to use them).

-Mir
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flyDTW1992
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:59 pm

Quoting C767P (Reply 4):
Envoy, Compass and Republic have iPads. I don't believe any of them are required to have paper backups.

Republic doesn't, I worked on their EFB implementation. They needed backups during an initial trial period, but not anymore. Their pilots have iPad Airs and iPad Air 2s, I believe. Jeppesen's app was only recently extended to Windows if I remember correctly. It was not yet available last year when I talked to Jeppesen's sales people.
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LAXintl
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:05 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
and AA was a pretty early adopter (IIRC, either they or AS were the first airline to use them).

  

AA was the first US commercial carrier to receive FAA approval to use a tablet during all phases of flight in December 2011.
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KELPkid
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:41 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
Yeah - the new Surface 3 is a major step up from the old RT ones. They have full Windows, so they can put programs that are not Windows apps on the computer. This is a good thing if they want to do things like put a reservations system on the computers.

There's a plethora of good flight planning software that has existed for MS Windows since at least the late 1990's...a ready made library. They probably just picked something off the shelf to run on their tablets  

EDIT: At any rate, I'm sure that they'll beat Apple on cost by a long shot, because the hardware is less expensive and requires no custom programming or integration

[Edited 2015-10-01 16:42:33]
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32andBelow
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:37 am

The second pilots iPad is the backup.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
EDIT: At any rate, I'm sure that they'll beat Apple on cost by a long shot, because the hardware is less expensive and requires no custom programming or integration

I think the big advantage to apple is that you can go to an apple store and get it replaced on an RON or whatever if you accidentally smash it. I believe ours can be updated to company specs remotely and become good to go.
 
ericm2031
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:32 am

I believe Mesa uses iPads too, not sure exactly, but have definitely seen a tablet in their cockpit and was quite surprised.
 
ScottB
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:40 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
EDIT: At any rate, I'm sure that they'll beat Apple on cost by a long shot, because the hardware is less expensive and requires no custom programming or integration

I don't really see that given that the base cost of the Surface 3 is identical to the most recent iPad. And it almost certainly will require custom programming to design proprietary apps which work with the tablet interface. A desktop app may run but it also might be near-impossible to use without the add-on keyboard and/or a stylus which add cost & complexity (styluses tend to get lost easily).
 
KELPkid
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:54 am

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 15):
I think the big advantage to apple is that you can go to an apple store and get it replaced on an RON or whatever if you accidentally smash it. I believe ours can be updated to company specs remotely and become good to go.

Swap Apple Store with Best Buy. Problem Solved  
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KELPkid
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:59 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 17):
I don't really see that given that the base cost of the Surface 3 is identical to the most recent iPad. And it almost certainly will require custom programming to design proprietary apps which work with the tablet interface. A desktop app may run but it also might be near-impossible to use without the add-on keyboard and/or a stylus which add cost & complexity (styluses tend to get lost easily).

There's a lot more Windows programmers in the world than Apple App developers   And a fairly large library of already written code in Windows...especially in flight planning and navigation software!
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b747400erf
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RE: SkyWest Chooses Surface 3 For Pilots

Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:14 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 19):

There's a lot more Windows programmers in the world than Apple App developers And a fairly large library of already written code in Windows...especially in flight planning and navigation software!

Pilots have no interest in a flight planning application. The tablets are going to have a charts database application and a load and balance/takeoff application. Custom programmed for the tablets to be stable. Or they could cut costs and only use a web app inside a browser. It does not matter that there is a "large library" or "more programmers" the only important fact is the ability to program stable applications for pilots to use.

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