jetskipper
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Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:31 pm

In the last year we've seen cities such as MSN, MEM, BNA, BTV, MFE, STL and IND regain mainline United flights. With the decreasing dependancy of the 50 seat regional jets, I can see more of the smaller cities receiving 70 seat RJs with reduced frequency and the medium sized cities seeing mainline increased or re-introduced. What cities do you think will be next on the list? I can see SDF, DAY and CVG soon on the upgrade list.
 
azstar
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:43 pm

Tucson will have one mainline flight to Denver.
 
stapleton
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:48 pm

Bozeman, Montana (BZN) now has two daily mainline flights to Denver year round. They had mainline in the Summer and Winter to DEN, ORD and EWR but this is the first year where the Denver service is mainline year round.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:58 pm

I'd like to see mainline return to CRP.
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ua900
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:49 pm

Well, PTP, BGI, FDF, and ADZ would be nice.
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Rdh3e
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:52 pm

Quoting ua900 (Reply 4):
Well, PTP, BGI, FDF, and ADZ would be nice.

We're talking existing cities getting mainline instead of UAX. Not new markets  
 
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knope2001
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:56 pm

The SkyWest base probably kills MKE's chance. MKE-ORD is not materially different from markets like MSN-ORD, GRR-ORD and IND-ORD when it comes stage-length inefficiency issues. But MKE gets the steady 50-seat diet to ORD, and other UA markets from MKE either have too much competition or not enough volume to make mainline likely.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:00 pm

Quoting jetskipper (Thread starter):
What cities do you think will be next on the list? I can see SDF, DAY and CVG soon on the upgrade list.

There were a fair number of cities, especially in the midwest, that had single or double daily 737 service amongst lots of RJs toward the end of UA's 737s (2008-2009 timeframe). I'd imagine that those cities that saw that service pattern but have not yet gotten mainline back would be high on the list. CVG is one that comes to mind, but I imagine there are others.
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STT757
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:00 pm

Montreal, at least seasonally.
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southsky
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:03 pm

Maybe BTR? UA sent mainline jets there in years past.

At this point, I'll take F class availability on United Express on anything out of MOB/PNS/GPT.
 
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ua900
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:10 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 5):
We're talking existing cities getting mainline instead of UAX. Not new markets

Oops, my bad. Here's *that* wish list  

BUR, BFL, ELP, COS, RNO

In all fairness, there are an awful lot of places that deserve mainline more than once a day and that couldn't make that list just because they get a 1x day 319/737 in between the 5x CR7s / E75s.
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toxtethogrady
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:12 pm

BTR and LFT we largely dependent on the price of oil. It's the reason I hesitate to suggest LBB and MAF as mainline cities.

Among the places that should get the service (if they don't already) are IAH-STL, IAH-OKC, IAH-MCI, IAH-CVG and perhaps some points in Mexico. EWR and ORD are probably also due some mainline upgrades to some of the markets.
 
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ua900
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:18 pm

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 11):
perhaps some points in Mexico

Yeah, I thought about that too. Any reason why UA has so many CR7s / 135 / 145 / CR2s down there at this time and doesn't really consider sending addt'l 737s to non-beach destinations outside of perhaps GDL?

STL and CVG are good suggestions, OKC and MCI already have some mainline. Interesting to see how much of the intermountain west and the Midwest basically gets express service from two sides (e.g. SFO and DEN or DEN and ORD) but little else.
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FSDan
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:19 pm

I think ORD-CVG should come back (and I'd like to see AA put a mainline jet or two on DFW-CVG, while we're at it  ).

I also think MKE is a conspicuously large city to have all RJ service. Especially MKE-DEN or MKE-IAH would be good to see mainline on, but I'm not holding my breath.

Until recently I thought BNA was a glaring hold in the mainline network and STL was fairly pathetic.
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phllax
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:11 pm

As long as Trans States is flying, STL will remain an ERJ hub of activity.
 
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adamblang
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:44 pm

It sounds like MKE and STL are destined to be 50 seat RJ cities when you'd intuitively think larger-gauge aircraft would be cycling through because of the presence of regional bases there. Are there other medium-sized metros that are similarly gauge-constrained?
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CALMSP
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:25 pm

back when CO had the 737-500, pretty much the majority of destinations in the IAH/SE USA had one or two flights. GPT/PNS/BTR/LFT/MFE. Would be a nice fit to have those back, but the longer stage lengths would be better. Nonetheless, a quick run IAH-BTR can probably squeeze in.
 
panam330
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:41 pm

Quoting ua900 (Reply 10):

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 5):
We're talking existing cities getting mainline instead of UAX. Not new markets

Oops, my bad. Here's *that* wish list  

BUR, BFL, ELP, COS, RNO

RNO already has mainline, but I will second you on at least COS and BUR here.

Quoting ua900 (Reply 10):
In all fairness, there are an awful lot of places that deserve mainline more than once a day and that couldn't make that list just because they get a 1x day 319/737 in between the 5x CR7s / E75s.

Agreed! Once a day is a start for sure, but expansion of mainline service to a lot of these places will be wonderful to all involved. I've also [anecdotally] noticed a lot of express flying on formerly much more mainline heavy routes lately, like ORD and DEN-AUS.

It's my personal opinion that EWR has the greatest need for some upgauging to mainline (or at least 76-seater, in a lot of markets). There is far too much 37-50 seat flying in/out of there. A value proposition needs to be created. More F (even if on RJs), less lawn dart and dumpy Dash 8 flying from America's largest metro area is essential. An ERJ-145 is unacceptable on a route like EWR-JAX or MSP. Period.
 
eugdjinn
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:08 pm

Quoting southsky (Reply 9):
Maybe BTR? UA sent mainline jets there in years past

BTR is a substantial maintenance facility for ExpressJet, which is part of SkyWest, INC. I think it's possible in the long run that they might send SkyWest owned and operated CRJ 700s there for maintenance, or even turns if United ordered it, but I very much doubt that you'll see a whole lot of interest in mainline operations to Baton Rouge. United likes the idea of frequency and with a facility that handles not only the E145s for UAX operations, but DCI CRJ 200s, 700s, and 900s as well as DFW based E145 and CRJ200s, BTR is a pretty critical maintenance operation for ExpressJet.

Quoting ua900 (Reply 10):
COS

And here also, the presence of a substantial maintenance facility for a regional carrier is likely to doom the chance of mainline taking over any of the flying. SkyWest's COS hangar services both UAX and DCI aircraft flown by SkyWest and may also see Alaska contract birds. I'm not sure if there are American Eagle routes flown by SkyWest that touch COS, but it's a key part of the maintenance for that region.

O.k. - so, why does this matter to United? A maintenance base means greater reliability, at least in theory. And the presence of both live mechanics, spare parts, and conveniently, extra planes if - heaven forbid - you need to swap into a different aircraft. Should United fly a 737 into BTR or COS, there are no United mechanics, 737 parts, or spare 737s. So, it makes a little more sense to keep those cities in the hands of the regional operators who have resources on hand.
 
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:36 pm

Quoting ua900 (Reply 10):
BFL

That would be a big wish and probably very unlikely. None of the current BFL routes are large enough to justify it.

Bakersfield currently only sees the following UAX service:
BFL-SFO 2X daily on CRJs
BFL-DEN 2X daily on CRJs
BFL-IAH 2X daily on CR7s

The only other flights on any airline at BFL are 3 daily CRJs to PHX.
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CALMSP
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:31 am

Quoting eugdjinn (Reply 18):

agreed. one of the big plus for SLC. I've been SLC-ORD many times where we've run into maintenance problems, only to be delayed slightly while they pulled one from the hangar. Granted, this was when it was pretty much OO to ORD, but still, having that base there helped numerous times.
 
sldispatcher
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:00 am

All good points. My question is what gates are left open at the hubs to even be able to utilize mainline aircraft?

I would say DEN could convert a few back to mainline. IAH may have a little slack from time to time, but often not much that I've seen. Not as familiar with EWR or ORD.

So it may be as much an issue with gate space at the hub airport.

I would also say that even if a hub had a gate opening, it may or may not coincide with the best time to be putting that mainline craft into/out of the out station. Definitely all fun to think about.

[Edited 2015-10-02 18:01:32]
 
GSP psgr
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:56 am

In the Southeast, I could see Charleston, Savannah, Birmingham, Huntsville, and maybe Northwest Arkansas (the last 3 via IAH?).
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:23 am

You can add FWA to the list of cities that won't be seeing mainline UA (or DL, for that matter) anytime soon because of a SkyWest CR2 MX base.

But UA seems to have an aversion to anything but FWA-ORD, and the only other UA routes that are feasible are either another CR2 for the OO MX base (DEN) or served by other regionals, sometimes within the SkyWest, Inc. family (EWR). For DL, it would make sense to consolidate some of the FWA-ATL flying onto a 717 (there's 4 daily CR2s, going to 5 in January), but I think the only way FWA will get F seats to ATL back is if OO decides to funnel the CR7/9 through FWA in addition to the CR2.

I'm glad that OO is hiring mechanics from Ivy Tech and growing the FWA MX base after they bought it from 9E, but I'm not happy that it's at the expense of better-suited planes for the FWA market, a la OO at MKE.
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YXwatcherMKE
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:23 am

Ok MKE is a OO Mx base as well as COS, BFL and BTR. What other cities are Mx bases if any? Also What are UA Mx bases for 737's and A319/320's? I believe DEN is an n/b Mx base, what else? I can't believe that MKE can't have at least one mainline flight from DEN, IAH and EWR. I know MKE has an single n/s from SFO and LAX by WN but I would think that UA could do a 738 A319 or at least a E175 flight from either of the two cities,Yes? How about a single A319 or E175 flight to IDA?
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dc10lover
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:25 am

PSC (Pasco, Washington) still has CRJ - 200 / 700 to DEN & SFO. Sad really. DL uses A320 to SLC & MSP though.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:33 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 23):
You can add FWA to the list of cities that won't be seeing mainline UA (or DL, for that matter) anytime soon because of a SkyWest CR2 MX base.

BNA is a OO CR2 maintenance base, and it receives mainline service. Having a maintenance base isn't dispositive.
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CIDFlyer
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:51 am

would love to see a mainline flight even if only 1x daily back in CID. Used to have alot of UA mainline here back in the late 90's, early 00's before they went to all RJ.

it'd be nice to see some of the other airlines like DL and AA have a mainline flight in the mix too. NW used to run the DC9's to MSP and when AA merged with TWA we had a lot of mainline to STL.

I guess for now the CR9's to ATL on DL and to DFW on AA are better than the ERJ's/CRJ's
 
dc10co
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:04 am

Would love to see a flight or two IAH-FAT to give AA a run for their money. Heck I'd even take mainline on FAT-DEN
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FATFlyer
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:06 am

Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 24):
Ok MKE is a OO Mx base as well as COS, BFL

BFL is not an OO Mx base. The OO Mx bases in California are FAT and PSP.

Quoting dc10co (Reply 28):
Would love to see a flight or two IAH-FAT to give AA a run for their money. Heck I'd even take mainline on FAT-DEN

I'd love to see one of those also. I'd also like to see FAT-ORD.

But I do see the OO maintenance base as an obstacle.
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STT757
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:18 pm

Quoting sldispatcher (Reply 21):
All good points. My question is what gates are left open at the hubs to even be able to utilize mainline aircraft?

I would say DEN could convert a few back to mainline. IAH may have a little slack from time to time, but often not much that I've seen. Not as familiar with EWR or ORD.

Plenty of gates at EWR Terminal C C-2 concourse which are currently handling Q400s which used to handle mainline. They can convert those back, also the gates at EWR Terminal A A-2 concourse used to be CO mainline for flights to ORD, MDW, ATL, DFW, BOS, DCA etc.. They can convert those back to mainline.

Quoting panam330 (Reply 17):
An ERJ-145 is unacceptable on a route like EWR-JAX or MSP. Period.

The ERJ-145s and Q400s will really be reduced dramatically at EWR over the course of the next 12 months. Republic will be operating the ERJ-175s for UA from EWR, they have about 4 on property in service out of an order of 55. So there will plenty of ERJ-175 flights coming to EWR in the next year, replacing both the Q400s and ERJ-145s. Checking the schedules for EWR-MSP next week the route is operating by 2 ERJ-170, 3 ERJ-175 and 1 A319. Not only have they eliminated the 50 seaters from that route they added a mainline flight and increased frequency from 5 to six daily. Routes from EWR are quickly losing 50 seaters and being replaced by 70, 76 seat regional jets. Another example is EWR-DTW, 4 ERJ-170 and 2 ERJ-175s.

Another example is EWR-MCI, UA now has 2 ERJ-170, 1 ERJ-175 and an ERJ-145. Eventually the ERJ-145 will be replaced totally on these routes.

[Edited 2015-10-03 07:30:24]
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lhcvg
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:26 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 30):

I noticed the same at CVG in recent months. EWR-CVG was all jungle jets all the time for who knows how long, and all of the sudden we're seeing E70's pop up on the route.

To the above points about previous mainline at CVG making it likely to return, if memory serves they dropped mainline there at least partly to activate a clause where they could close the mainline staffing there and turn it over to contract vendors. Reading between the lines on here, it sounded like the primary motivation was to fulfill whatever contract language there is about "no mainline service for x period". So would not be surprised at all to see ORD-CVG mainline return EVENTUALLY.

DFW-CVG on AA mainline would be an interesting add, not least because it would be fun to watch DL's reaction (is DFW a place they could hold from CVG given DL's strength here or would AA bully them off).
 
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STT757
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:45 pm

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 31):
I noticed the same at CVG in recent months. EWR-CVG was all jungle jets all the time for who knows how long, and all of the sudden we're seeing E70's pop up on the route.

EWR- CMH is now 5 ERJ-170 and 2 ERJ-145s. These types of routes will transition away totally from 50 seaters over the next twelve months from EWR.
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EMB170
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:01 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 32):
EWR- CMH is now 5 ERJ-170 and 2 ERJ-145s. These types of routes will transition away totally from 50 seaters over the next twelve months from EWR.

Wow. This used to be majority Q400 if not exclusively. Same for CMH-IAD.
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adamblang
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:05 pm

In this thread while crunching some numbers, I noticed United kind of keeps a floor or 3-4 round trips between medium-sized cities and a hub as the minimal frequency of service and tends to upgauge 50 seat RJs to 76 seat RJs and 76 RJs to mainline at 5-6 round trips as a frequency ceiling. I'd imagine any spoke that has a non-MX base rotation route above 5-6 round trips would be on the short list to upgauge / reduce frequency.
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whatusaid
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:59 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 29):
Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 24):
Ok MKE is a OO Mx base as well as COS, BFL

BFL is not an OO Mx base. The OO Mx bases in California are FAT and PSP.

Quoting dc10co (Reply 28):
Would love to see a flight or two IAH-FAT to give AA a run for their money. Heck I'd even take mainline on FAT-DEN

I'd love to see one of those also. I'd also like to see FAT-ORD.

But I do see the OO maintenance base as an obstacle.

I agree, OO is in the way of any upgrades at FAT, but if the 175's can't clear the hanger doors the life of that base may be limited. As previously noted on A.net, there was a report that the city won't allow OO to modify the hanger doors but I've not been able to confirm. Considering that FAT-DEN runs better than 94% LF on the 4 RTs (3 RTs in the dead of Feb) on a mix of 200's and 700s, and the prior history of this route, FAT makes sense. That's reason enough that it's almost certain that no mainline is in FAT's UA future. Sense doesn't play out in this market.
 
GSP psgr
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:10 pm

Another one that pops to mind is Burbank, which used to have a lot more United mainline than it does now.
 
dc10lover
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:38 pm

United flies a lot of CRJ - 200's then they wonder why no one wants to fly United.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
flyguy89
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:57 pm

Quoting jetskipper (Thread starter):
I can see SDF, DAY and CVG soon on the upgrade list.

At this stage in the game, I'd take any amount of mainline equipment from any of the legacies at CVG. AA currently flies about 7-8 ERJ145's on CVG-DFW and 7-ish CVG-CLT flights mostly on CRJ7 or CRJ9 equipment. UA has finally moved beyond the ERJ145 on CVG-EWR and CVG-IAH, would still be better yet to have mainline UA back.
 
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adamblang
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:13 pm

Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 37):
United flies a lot of CRJ - 200's then they wonder why no one wants to fly United.

Delta has ~130 CRJ-200s, American has ~140 CRJ-200s. United today has ~70 CRJ-200s, by the end of the year 50 CRJ-200s. I'd hardly call that a lot.
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lat41
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:34 pm

As UA's operation at BOS to the North has been hammered with competition Providence has been sacrificed and become the domain of ER-145s to EWR, IAD and now ORD. The ever fluctuating schedule and tired looking, more vulnerable to cancellation RJs have chased business away to make matters worse. Not too long ago mainline service would be jammed and certainly not because of a low yield bargain tariff from PVD as there was virtually always some premium there. Perhaps the pendulum may swing back as it has is other small to medium cities that help build the UA system as the smaller RJs get thinned out so passengers in Southern New England will have a steady, more comprehensive schedule on better aircraft. I hope.
 
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STT757
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:54 am

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 33):
Wow. This used to be majority Q400 if not exclusively. Same for CMH-IAD.

IAD-CMH is now all CR7s

Quoting lat41 (Reply 40):
As UA's operation at BOS to the North has been hammered with competition Providence has been sacrificed and become the domain of ER-145s to EWR, IAD and now ORD.

UA is the only carrier serving Providence from the NYC area, has been forever, so I don't complaints about ERJ-145s. EWR-PVD, a route of 160 miles, seems like one of the areas a ERJ-145 makes sense. Right now UA has EWR-PVD 4x daily with 2 ERJ-145s, 1 DH8-200 and 1 Q400.

PVD-IAD is two daily CR7s and PVD-ORD is 1 A319 and 1 ERJ 145.
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panam330
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RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:46 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 30):
The ERJ-145s and Q400s will really be reduced dramatically at EWR over the course of the next 12 months. Republic will be operating the ERJ-175s for UA from EWR, they have about 4 on property in service out of an order of 55. So there will plenty of ERJ-175 flights coming to EWR in the next year, replacing both the Q400s and ERJ-145s. Checking the schedules for EWR-MSP next week the route is operating by 2 ERJ-170, 3 ERJ-175 and 1 A319. Not only have they eliminated the 50 seaters from that route they added a mainline flight and increased frequency from 5 to six daily. Routes from EWR are quickly losing 50 seaters and being replaced by 70, 76 seat regional jets. Another example is EWR-DTW, 4 ERJ-170 and 2 ERJ-175s.

Another example is EWR-MCI, UA now has 2 ERJ-170, 1 ERJ-175 and an ERJ-145. Eventually the ERJ-145 will be replaced totally on these routes.

Republic may have them on property, but can they staff them is the real question. I know how YX's pilot situation really is - I crewed the pointy ends of their aircraft for over a year before moving onward and upward this past spring. They can't even handle the flying they have now; adding more will only make it worse. I applaud UA for dumping the 50 seaters; it's been sorely needed for far too long. I just think they placed these new jets with the wrong regional.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 4986
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

RE: Next UA Mainline Cities?

Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:40 am

CMH-DEN has regained multiple mainline frequencies a day, as has CMH-ORD. There's even a weekend CMH-IAH I saw playing on FR24 last week.

I could see DAY getting mainline back, as they ran A320s to ORD in the late 2000s. It's currently (using Monday) 1 E175, 3 CR7, 3 ERJ.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST

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