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cathay747
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AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:01 pm

Does anybody know why AA does this, and has done it for eons?

I think I read or heard an explanation a LONG time ago, but
don't remember what it was. It's just so screwy to have the row
numbering start with 3 vs. 1. And if they do this on 737/M80,
why not also on the 75's?

And have they changed the rows numbers on the LUS birds
to match the AA practice? I would think so for commonality.

Any info would be appreciated!
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afcjets
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RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:10 pm

They did on the 727 as well. Perhaps the reason is because with the DC10 having six rows in First Class, row 6 was usually the last row of F on two class aircraft.
 
ty97
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RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:13 pm

Quoting cathay747 (Thread starter):
And have they changed the rows numbers on the LUS birds
to match the AA practice?

They have not renumbered any pmUS planes AFAIK and don't expect they will. pmAA starts with Row 1 on the pmAA A319s and A321s so the 'Row 3' approach is not consistent within the pmAA fleet.
 
afcjets
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RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:20 pm

Also it could be because back in the 1960s the 727 had at least six rows of F and when they shortened it they still wanted it to have a row six, and they wanted to keep the seating convention consistent when they ordered the S80, just a guess.
 
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cathay747
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RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:17 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 1):
They did on the 727 as well.

Been so long since I was on a AA 727 I'd forgotten that! But on
old seat maps, the 100's were 3-5 and the 200's were 2-5.

Wonder if they did it on the F100's?

Quoting afcjets (Reply 1):
Perhaps the reason is because with the DC10 having six rows in First Class

Domestic birds had 8...same as UA; they had a couple special configs. i.e.
Carib. that had less. All per 1983 seat maps. So that can't be it, but good guess!

Quoting ty97 (Reply 2):
They have not renumbered any pmUS planes AFAIK and don't expect they will. pmAA starts with Row 1 on the pmAA A319s and A321s so the 'Row 3' approach is not consistent within the pmAA fleet.

Thanks for this info, didn't know any of this!

Quoting afcjets (Reply 3):
Also it could be because back in the 1960s the 727 had at least six rows of F and when they shortened it they still wanted it to have a row six, and they wanted to keep the seating convention consistent when they ordered the S80, just a guess.

That's another good guess. Wonder if anybody really knows?
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AAR90
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RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:35 pm

Why? I haven't got a clue.

Quoting cathay747 (Thread starter):
And have they changed the rows numbers on the LUS birds
to match the AA practice? I would think so for commonality.

LUS has no B737 or MD80 aircraft so there is nothing to change in order to "match the AA practice" (at AA only the B737 & MD80 cabins start with row 3).
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HNL
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RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:23 pm

If AA were to remove the closets and galley for F, and drop first, there will be 6 rows of economy. This means the mechanics do not need to replace/reset the seat number placards throughout the aircraft - just the first part.

the 757s do not have this issue as seating in first goes from 1 to 6, then economy starts a 9. There is a gap in the sequence to accommodate the additional rows.
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Wingtips56
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RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:01 am

I believe it was so that an aircraft type swap would have the seats be consistent... i.e. change from F rows 1-6 to F 3-6, rather than a configuration of F 1-3, Y 4-30, to avoid having people in F Row 5 suddenly end up in Y Row 5 on the replacement craft. And it avoided a Y Row 5 ending up in F Row 5 on the bigger airplane.

However in my years with AA, we so rarely had a change of type, that it could have just been a holdover from older times when there were changes of type occurring more often.

The same occurs with AA in the seats across a row: ABC-DEF, changes to AC-DEF when going from Boeing NB to Douglas. C is always an aisle. Other airlines do AB-CDE, or AB-DEF, and a change to six abreast put's that B aisle person into a center seat on the six abreast replacement craft.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

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b377
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RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:24 am

Quoting cathay747 (Thread starter):
Does anybody know why AA does this, and has done it for eons?

My recollections may be way off, but I believe the row three start of AA FC cabins started with the 707.

On its introduction, there was a 4 seat lounge across from the FC galley, and although it could not be sold because of a low back with no headrests, it was still designated row 1 and 2.
 
Viscount724
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RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:42 am

Quoting b377 (Reply 8):
Quoting cathay747 (Thread starter):
Does anybody know why AA does this, and has done it for eons?

My recollections may be way off, but I believe the row three start of AA FC cabins started with the 707.

On its introduction, there was a 4 seat lounge across from the FC galley, and although it could not be sold because of a low back with no headrests, it was still designated row 1 and 2.

According to AA seat maps, after the 707 lounge was removed, the first row was row 2. There was a bar/stowage unit at the front which, if removed, would probably have allowed another pair of seats to be installed which would then have been row 1. The legend on the left side appears to be wrong as it doesn't match the seat map numbering. For the -123 it shows "First Class Rows 1 to 6" (should be 2 to 6), and for the -323 it shows "First Class Rows 1 to 5" (should be 2 to 6), assuming the seat maps are correct.

707-123B seat map



707-323C seat map

 
b377
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RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:08 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
According to AA seat maps, after the 707 lounge was removed, the first row was row 2.

Your seat map is absolutely correct when the aircraft was reconfigured in the mid 1960's.

The configuration I was referring to had 32 first class seats, aligned as 8 rows of 2-2 starting with row 3.

Sorry but I have been unable to find any seat charts from that era to verify my memory.
 
rbavfan
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RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:42 am

Quoting afcjets (Reply 3):
1960s the 727 had at least six rows of F and when they shortened it

They did not shorten the 727 series. It went from the shorter original 727-100 to the stretched 727-200 not the other way around.

[Edited 2015-10-04 02:53:37]
 
afcjets
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RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:13 am

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 11):
Quoting afcjets (Reply 3):1960s the 727 had at least six rows of F and when they shortened it
They did not shorten the 727 series. It went from the shorter original 727-100 to the stretched 727-200 not the other way around.

I was referring to the First Class cabin, not the jet itself.
 
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cathay747
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RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:39 pm

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 7):
I believe it was so that an aircraft type swap would have the seats be consistent... i.e. change from F rows 1-6 to F 3-6, rather than a configuration of F 1-3, Y 4-30, to avoid having people in F Row 5 suddenly end up in Y Row 5 on the replacement craft. And it avoided a Y Row 5 ending up in F Row 5 on the bigger airplane.

Thank you. THIS rings a bell as to what I thought I remembered
hearing/reading. Which also would explain why there is a numbering
gap between the last row # of F and the first row # of Y, due to
business class on certain types, so if they had to (back then) sub
a 3-class 767 for a 3-class or 2-class DC-10...if' I'm understanding
this right...both types had coach starting at the same row #.
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cathay747
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RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:40 pm

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 5):
LUS has no B737 or MD80 aircraft

I know this, I was referring to the LUS Airbus fleet, although I
didn't spell this out.
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HNLPointShoot
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:32 pm

RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:06 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
707-323C seat map

Might be getting off-topic, but why is row 22 missing seats A and F?
 
global2
Posts: 507
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:50 am

RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:13 pm

Quoting b377 (Reply 8):
My recollections may be way off, but I believe the row three start of AA FC cabins started with the 707.

On its introduction, there was a 4 seat lounge across from the FC galley

Thank you--I was thinking the same thing!

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):

Thank you for posting this image. Interesting to see that not only has the 1st. Class Lounge been replaced with another row of seating and a bar, that AA also put in a "carry on luggage rack" where a 2nd lavatory used to be.
 
superjeff
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RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:57 pm

22 missing A and C is because of an emergency exit on the 707-320 serirs
 
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DL_Mech
Posts: 2374
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 7:48 am

RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:15 pm

Quoting superjeff (Reply 17):
22 missing A and C is because of an emergency exit on the 707-320 series

Specifically, the 707-320C series. The 707-320B did not have the "hatrack" exit
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
AAR90
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RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:10 pm

Quoting cathay747 (Reply 14):
Quoting AAR90 (Reply 5):
LUS has no B737 or MD80 aircraft

I know this, I was referring to the LUS Airbus fleet, although I
didn't spell this out.

Also answered...

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 5):
...(at AA only the B737 & MD80 cabins start with row 3).

IOW... both LAA and LUS A319/321 cabins start with row 1.
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afcjets
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RE: AA Row Numbers Starting With 3 On 737/M80

Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:29 pm

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 19):
IOW... both LAA and LUS A319/321 cabins start with row 1.

I guess this shows the A319 which is the first AA narrowbody to start with row 1 means the jet was delivered with as many rows squeezed in as possible.

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