lawair
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TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:59 pm

Still not quite sure what TG is doing to restructure? Let this further confuse you.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...0-retirements-are-postponed-247083

Some notes from this article:

-increasing focus on transit traffic

-retirement of 8 744s has been delayed indefinitely (or until their operating/maintenance costs jump)

-seat capacity to LHR this winter will be the highest in at least four years

-overall winter seat capacity to Western Europe increases 2% over last year, 4% over 2013; December 2015 capacity projected to be nearly 34,000 weekly one-way seats (percentage increases excludes Moscow, which was the only Eastern European route and was dropped earlier this year)

-FCO suspension delayed until February 2016

-August load factor to Europe was highest since August 2007

-article speculates that TG wants to maintain capacity in case there are any forced governmental restrictions on future expansion due to ongoing safety audits

Of course, the situation is continuously in flux as it always has been, so much of this could quickly change.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:02 pm

Wow what a joke. Go with a plan and stick with it.
 
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Btblue
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:43 pm

Well the UK economy is booming in certain parts, and notably London. Thailand is a popular destination so the increase doesn't surprise me.

I'm sure these decisions must be based on data, and the data tells them to add capacity.
 
fcogafa
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:54 pm

Strange, they reduced LHR to one flight a day when the A380 was introduced on the route. In the winter season they are resuming the second service with a B77W.
 
TC957
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:32 pm

If TG want to see a quick increase in pax numbers I suggest they re-instate their DME service quickly, given the volumes of pax Transaero flies to Thailand and their current troubles.



Quoting fcogafa (Reply 3):
Strange, they reduced LHR to one flight a day when the A380 was introduced on the route. In the winter season they are resuming the second service with a B77W.

Not really that strange, Thailand is more of a winter season destination than summer.

Quoting lawair (Thread starter):
-retirement of 8 744s has been delayed indefinitely (or until their operating/maintenance costs jump)

I think a good option for remaining 744's with TG is to refit them to a largely all-Y class high-density seating and use them for leisure routes, their premium cabins were outdated anyway. However, that would only be a good option if the political situation in Thailand remains calm and visitor numbers increase again.
 
behramjee
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:59 pm

IATA Winter season is PEAK season for travel to Thailand from all over Europe where as in summer it isnt so the capacity increase from a demand stand point is well justified but from a financial perspective it definitely is not as these flights wont even cover their direct operational costs due to the low pax yield.
 
roseflyer
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:07 pm

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 1):
Wow what a joke. Go with a plan and stick with it.

I think that is a terrible strategy. Travel demand constantly evolves. Thailand is one of the top three countries in the world for international travel. The demand changes quickly based on currency fluctuations, oil prices and international economies. Thai has many problems, but when revenue is good and oil prices are low, it is a bad time to be retiring airplanes.

Quoting lawair (Thread starter):
-August load factor to Europe was highest since August 2007

This is huge. If their load factor is going up along with fuel prices going down, I assume this means that they are earning more money.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 4):
If TG want to see a quick increase in pax numbers I suggest they re-instate their DME service quickly, given the volumes of pax Transaero flies to Thailand and their current troubles.

Russian travel to Thailand has been falling as the Ruble falls in value. It is getting very expensive for Russians to fly to Thailand and the economy in Russia is suffering.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
727LOVER
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:14 pm

Are they still dumping LAX?

If so, when?


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SQ22
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:10 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 3):
Strange, they reduced LHR to one flight a day when the A380 was introduced on the route. In the winter season they are resuming the second service with a B77W.

I do not see anything strange in this, in FRA they are doing the same, just a seasonal increase, if demand is there its fine.
 
DXTraveler
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:29 pm

Slightly off topic but their webpage is a mess. For almost a week myself and others have been unable to book flights from ICN. It was working. I alerted TG via e-mail last week. Today I called their Los Angeles office and they were clueless, couldn't comprehend what I was trying to tell them and didn't have any way to alert anyone in Bangkok. Looks like I'll have to book OZ, don't like their departure times, or KE, who I don't status on.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:44 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 6):
Thailand is one of the top three countries in the world for international travel.

What metric is used to come to that conclusion?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
waly777
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:51 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 10):

Bangkok is the most visited city in the world......
The test of first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold 2 opposed ideas in the mind concurrently, and still function
 
Viscount724
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:57 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 6):
Thailand is one of the top three countries in the world for international travel.

I think you're referring to data that shows BKK as one of the most popular city destinations compared to other cities. That's not true for Thailand as a whole. There are many countries with far more international arrivals than Thailand.

UN data for 2014 shows the following as the top 10 based on international visitor arrivals:

1. France
2. United States
3. Spain
4. China
5. Italy
6. Turkey
7. Germany
8. UK
9. Russia
10. Mexico
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:11 pm

Quoting waly777 (Reply 11):
Bangkok is the most visited city in the world......

........pretty sure that's Paris, not Bangkok.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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mercure1
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:14 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 6):
This is huge. If their load factor is going up along with fuel prices going down, I assume this means that they are earning more money.

As we well know, full planes don't mean profits, and TG is basically filling planes with charter type clients from much of Europe - hardly top quality revenue mix.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 7):
Are they still dumping LAX? If so, when?

Yes the perennial loss maker ends October 25th.
mercure f-wtcc
 
Viscount724
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:18 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 13):
Quoting waly777 (Reply 11):
Bangkok is the most visited city in the world......

........pretty sure that's Paris, not Bangkok.

In this survey Paris is 3rd, moe than 2 million international visitors behind London and Bangkok.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/03/tr...rd-top-10-destination-cities-2015/

Top 10 destination cities for 2015 (by projected visitor arrivals)

1. London 18.82 million
2. Bangkok 18.24 million
3. Paris 16.06 million
4. Dubai, UAE 14.26 million
5. Istanbul 12.56 million
6. New York 12.27 million
7. Singapore 11.88 million
8. Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia 11.12 million
9. Seoul 10.35 million
10. Hong Kong 8.66 million
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:22 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 13):
........pretty sure that's Paris, not Bangkok.

According to Forbes, Bangkok was nr 1, in 2013 overtaking the 1st spot from London, with Paris in 3rd.
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/ehlk45iehm/1-bangkok/

According to CNtraveler, in 2015, London was nr1 with Bangkok 2nd and Paris 3rd.
http://www.cntraveler.com/galleries/...-of-2015-london-bangkok-new-york/1

Then according to the MasterCard Global Destinations Cities Index , London is nr1, Bangkok nr2 and Paris 3rd.
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/06/03/most-...r-cities-for-tourists-in-2015.html

[Edited 2015-10-05 16:24:36]
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
Cassi
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:53 am

Tourist Arrivals in Thailand, 1H 2015:

Amount, YoY Growth
1. China 4,006,584 +111.64%
2. Malaysia 1,704,370 +57.93%
3. Japan 675,758 +16.79%
4. Korea 638,296 +19.71%
5. Laos 565,601 +20.73%
6. India 526,120 +17.01%
7. Russia 466,457 -50.35%
8. UK 462,633 +2.73%
9. Singapore 459,795 +36.46%
10. US 426,955 +12.21%

Spending in Billion Baht, YoY Growth
1. China 190.919 +138.91%
2. Malaysia 39.755 +64.58%
3. UK 32.498 +4.55%
4. Russia 31.768 -50.43%
5. US 29.938 +15.80%
6. Australia 29.021 +6.18%
7. Japan 27.972 +28.42%
8. Korea 26.775 +29.12%
9. Germany 25.094 +9.38%
10. France 24.304 +16.35%

Source:
http://www.thephuketnews.com/chinese...es-russian-market-halves-53635.php

So inbound tourism from Europe is important but is growing slowly now. The Chinese growth is really amazing.
 
ohsopc
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:09 am

They are adding back the 2nd london capacity to keep the slot.

Also, the demand for travel to Bangkok this winter has surged (from a few years of low growth). TG's increase in capacity is in line with the market: EK is doing 4/6 daily A380, QR is doing 3/4 (almost) daily A380. CX is doing 10x daily flight BKK-HKG, up from only 3-4 daily a few years ago. The aviation sector in Thailand is doing well!
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:13 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
In this survey Paris is 3rd, moe than 2 million international visitors behind London and Bangkok.
Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 16):
According to Forbes, Bangkok was nr 1, in 2013 overtaking the 1st spot from London, with Paris in 3rd.
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/ehlk45iehm/1-bangkok/
According to CNtraveler, in 2015, London was nr1 with Bangkok 2nd and Paris 3rd.
http://www.cntraveler.com/galleries/...-of-2015-london-bangkok-new-york/1
Then according to the MasterCard Global Destinations Cities Index , London is nr1, Bangkok nr2 and Paris 3rd.
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/06/03/most-....html



And yet, according to THIS, THIS, THIS, and THIS.... it's Paris, not London nor Bangkok.

So it all goes right back to my original question: what metrics and means of collection are these places using to calculate this?

Because based on these articles, I'm seeing everything from total visitors, to int'l visitors only, to credit card receipts, etc. Quite the disparity.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
nethkt
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:53 am

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/...denies-talk-of-a380-fleet-sell-off

So 'NO', TG 380 will still be around, operating, not going to leased out, not going to grounded.

Look pass over my flag. But seriously, why most people out here just wish the worst out of Thai airways? Really?
Most of the news brought up over here on airliners.net about TG are negative. I know their financial situation isn't that good but well, more than half of the airlines are on the same boat. And it happens to be the same old people, either a fanboy of the other up-and-coming airlines or self-proclaimed guru who backing up with some information which 'looks or sounds' reliable (seriously I can make that kind of info myself) or just pure haters. This is ridiculous, this web board is not about 'Katy Perry vs Taylor Swift'.

TG is one super crazy airlines, with lots of potential to be the world's top.
There are wonderful staff plus corrupted high-ranked governors involved in the organization so the airlines isn't acting rational at most of the time. But with the low cost at its hub, on-going cost-cutting measures plus strong demand from China, I'm confident that the airlines will be back on track.
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
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Navigator
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:12 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 1):
Wow what a joke. Go with a plan and stick with it.

No, by all means no. If the demand changes you of course change your actions. If you dont you will soon be out of business. Thai has seen greater demand than expected and increases capacity. Of course this is right because if they dont they lose market share.
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tcyvr
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:22 am

Is TG completely exiting North America?
 
Lufthansa
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:58 am

Quoting nethkt (Reply 20):
TG is one super crazy airlines, with lots of potential to be the world's top.
There are wonderful staff plus corrupted high-ranked governors involved in the organization so the airlines isn't acting rational at most of the time. But with the low cost at its hub, on-going cost-cutting measures plus strong demand from China, I'm confident that the airlines will be back on track.

Well said! I for one wish them all the best luck and have always enjoyed my flights with them! I was actually worried my hometown was going to loose them and our only direct link to Bangkok...then MAS pulled out so I suppose this helped the yields a little for competing connecting traffic.
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:33 am

If they are going to keep the 744s longer, I wounder if they would consider a 748i order?
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:20 pm

Navigator, TG is a carrier that seemingly can't seem to plan effectively, making announcements and then not long after almost doing a 180 and totally reversing course. It seems very common.

Their issue has never been volume into Thailand, it is yield and an inability to best adopt a strategy that will best meet the markets needs. Unless it can determine a plan to ensure there is a consistent decision making process it will only continue to bring confusion.

An example of this is seeing TG make Thai Smile flip flop each couple of years just shows how the carrier just can't seem to plan effectively, making decisions without a holistic approach being taken to its operations.
 
777way
Posts: 6457
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:36 pm

Quoting tcyvr (Reply 22):

Yes.
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10649
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:54 pm

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 25):

Navigator, TG is a carrier that seemingly can't seem to plan effectively, making announcements and then not long after almost doing a 180 and totally reversing course. It seems very common.

The question should be, why is this often considered a bad thing?

The airline business evolves quickly and often unpredictably. If you adopt a strategy because it was the most effective based on a set of market assumptions which then change, of course you need to re-evaluate and that could well see a return to the previous situation, or a further iteration. Sticking with an outdated strategy based on historic assumptions is not sustainable in this sector.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:59 pm

^^ It doesn't seem that whatever they do actually assists in improving its fortunes though so whatever they do often could be misguided.

Airlines still require a significant level of planning, even if they are agile in their strategies. It is pulled off in many cases as they have each plan mapped out and are ready to tackle the fundamental issues. Not sure I can view TG's moves with any confidence.
 
lawair
Topic Author
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RE: TG Expands Seat Capacity To Europe, Keeps 744s

Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:01 pm

And this article today says the rehabilitation plan is not moving fast enough and that the carrier is still in terrible shape, according to the State Enterprise Policy Commission. TG says it hopes to be profitable starting next January.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/gene...inances-critical-survival-at-stake

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