An interesting development.
http://www.koat.com/news/flight-dive...-after-copilot-passes-out/35680072
Was UA1614, operated by N29907. F.O. is stable.
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UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
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- SiouxFlyer
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RE: UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
It says the F.O. was able to walk off the plane so that leaves me clueless as to what caused him to pass out.
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- DocLightning
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RE: UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
| Quoting SiouxFlyer (Reply 1): It says the F.O. was able to walk off the plane so that leaves me clueless as to what caused him to pass out. |
Any number of things. I'm assuming he's had an EKG in the past as part of his FAA medical, but I'm not sure if that's done routinely. Either way, an underlying arrhythmia should be ruled out, but those are rare. Could have been a bit of dehydration, underlying low blood pressure, or a moment of vasovagal syncope.
Right now I just saw a 7yo girl who did the same thing. It can happen to young healthy people. Sometimes happens to soldiers at attention.
There was an incident where a pilot lost consciousness during preflight. Turned out he had worked out earlier that day and hadn't had time to grab lunch so he dropped his glucose.
-Doc Lightning-
"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
RE: UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
| Quoting SiouxFlyer (Reply 1): |
He probably had the fish.
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RE: UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
You know I just thought of something. this happened on a 787 which obviously means that the 787 makes pilots pass out do to a design flaw. /s
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atcsundevil
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RE: UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
| Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2): Any number of things. I'm assuming he's had an EKG in the past as part of his FAA medical, but I'm not sure if that's done routinely. Either way, an underlying arrhythmia should be ruled out, but those are rare. Could have been a bit of dehydration, underlying low blood pressure, or a moment of vasovagal syncope. Right now I just saw a 7yo girl who did the same thing. It can happen to young healthy people. Sometimes happens to soldiers at attention. There was an incident where a pilot lost consciousness during preflight. Turned out he had worked out earlier that day and hadn't had time to grab lunch so he dropped his glucose. |
All of those are valid possibilities. Hopefully for his sake he didn't have a seizure -- otherwise, his flying days are probably over. An onset of seizures without a prior condition at his age (I'm assuming 40s or 50s?) probably means bigger problems than losing his wings though. A comment on the linked article says "odds are he had a massive stroke". Cute, but probably very, very wrong. I suppose a TIA is a possibility, but not so much a CVA. One wouldn't have a massive CVA and then trot off the airplane afterwards.
My best guess would be dehydration or syncopy, mostly because the simplest explanation is usually the case. Stuff like this happens to healthy people every day with relatively simple explanations, they just aren't usually in cockpits on days that also happen to be slow news days.
RE: UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
| Quoting SiouxFlyer (Reply 5): You know I just thought of something. this happened on a 787 which obviously means that the 787 makes pilots pass out do to a design flaw. /s |
It's the lower cabin altitude. We all know pilots appreciate higher altitudes and less pressure rather than more pressure
Since AA had their turn and now it's UA, let's see what happens at DL over the next 7 days. Maybe we'll find the root cause for what sunk Douglas.
2020: AMS | ATL | BRU | DAL | DEN | DFW | EWR | FRA | GUA | IAH | LAX | LIM | MCO | MUC | ORD | PTY | SAL | SCL | SFO | TPA | TXL
RE: UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
| Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2): I'm assuming he's had an EKG in the past as part of his FAA medical |
Last time I took an FAA 1st class medical, EKGs were not a part of it. That was 15 years ago however so things could have changed since then.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
RE: UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
| Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2): Any number of things. I'm assuming he's had an EKG in the past as part of his FAA medical, but I'm not sure if that's done routinely. |
Every 6 months for a Class I medical, required for a pilot holding an ATP certificate...
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
RE: UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
| Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 8): |
| Quoting KELPkid (Reply 9): |
CFR 14 Part 67.111
(b) A person applying for first-class medical certification must demonstrate an absence of myocardial infarction and other clinically significant abnormality on electrocardiographic examination:
(1) At the first application after reaching the 35th birthday; and
(2) On an annual basis after reaching the 40th birthday.
(c) An electrocardiogram will satisfy a requirement of paragraph (b) of this section if it is dated no earlier than 60 days before the date of the application it is to accompany and was performed and transmitted according to acceptable standards and techniques.
Boiler Up!
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RE: UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
| Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 6): ll of those are valid possibilities. Hopefully for his sake he didn't have a seizure -- otherwise, his flying days are probably over. An onset of seizures without a prior condition at his age (I'm assuming 40s or 50s?) probably means bigger problems than losing his wings though. A comment on the linked article says "odds are he had a massive stroke". Cute, but probably very, very wrong. I suppose a TIA is a possibility, but not so much a CVA. One wouldn't have a massive CVA and then trot off the airplane afterwards. |
I had a very minor CVA(stoke) in August and my left leg would not hold me up for over 24 hours. If the F.O. had a major stroke as suggest by someone, the man would have been carried off the a/c by the paramedics. I know that for a fact, because I was in the EMS field for 36 years.
I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
RE: UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
This story was just on NBC news and at first I was mad when they showed a 787 landing because I figured 'Here we go again, NBC showing a 787 instead of an A320' until I pulled up flight 1614 which turns out to be a Dreamliner flight to SFO. Amy's, they mentioned the pilot had a seizure but even showed him walking down the steps. Young-looking guy too.
If you're going through hell, keep going
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RE: UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
| Quoting SiouxFlyer (Reply 1): It says the F.O. was able to walk off the plane so that leaves me clueless as to what caused him to pass out. |
Is it possible there was low cabin oxygen? Not everyone passes out at the same time.
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RE: UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
| Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 14): Is it possible there was low cabin oxygen? Not everyone passes out at the same time. |
On the ground?
-Doc Lightning-
"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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RE: UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
Pilot incapacitations are relatively common. They do not all result from one of the pilots passing out or even passing away as it tragically happened recently, but they do happen a lot more than the general public would think.
They mostly aren't reported by the media, but I'm guessing this one benefited from the media attention effect in the wave of the tragic AA flight.
They mostly aren't reported by the media, but I'm guessing this one benefited from the media attention effect in the wave of the tragic AA flight.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
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RE: UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
| Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15): Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 14): Is it possible there was low cabin oxygen? Not everyone passes out at the same time. On the ground? |
I think the comment you're replying to is referring to the original inflight incident, indicating that some people are more affected by high altitudes than others. Cabin altitude on most aircraft flying at 30,000+ feet is usually around 8,000 feet (a bit lower on the 787) which is roughly the elevation of Mexico City (7,380 ft.) where many people not used to that altitude take a few days to adapt.
RE: UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
| Quoting francoflier (Reply 16): Pilot incapacitations are relatively common. They do not all result from one of the pilots passing out or even passing away as it tragically happened recently, but they do happen a lot more than the general public would think. They mostly aren't reported by the media, but I'm guessing this one benefited from the media attention effect in the wave of the tragic AA flight. |
Unfortunately for our hapless first officer, it will expose him to extra medical scrutiny and examination until the cause is definitely determined...
| Quoting web500sjc (Reply 10): (b) A person applying for first-class medical certification must demonstrate an absence of myocardial infarction and other clinically significant abnormality on electrocardiographic examination: (1) At the first application after reaching the 35th birthday; and (2) On an annual basis after reaching the 40th birthday. (c) An electrocardiogram will satisfy a requirement of paragraph (b) of this section if it is dated no earlier than 60 days before the date of the application it is to accompany and was performed and transmitted according to acceptable standards and techniques. |
Yeah, I was generalizing...however I did think that you were required to have an EKG on every class I (I've only had one Class I medical, and it did require an EKG...). However, since I don't hold an ATP, I don't need a regular Class I medical
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
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atcsundevil
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RE: UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
| Quoting YXwatcherMKE (Reply 12): I had a very minor CVA(stoke) in August and my left leg would not hold me up for over 24 hours. If the F.O. had a major stroke as suggest by someone, the man would have been carried off the a/c by the paramedics. I know that for a fact, because I was in the EMS field for 36 years. |
My point exactly! People generally don't have CVAs and then walk themselves to the hospital. TIA, maybe, but not a CVA. Thank you for your EMS service! I work in EMS myself, albeit for significantly less time in the field than you.
| Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 13): mentioned the pilot had a seizure but even showed him walking down the steps |
I mentioned that as a possibility in my first post above, but I certainly hope for his sake that's not the case. Certain types of seizure activity (absence seizure, for example) can appear to be "passed out" to a layperson. A fairly decent percentage of seizures are not the typical grand mal or tonic-clonic seizures most people think when the word "seizure" comes to mind. Postictal periods (after effects of the seizure) can also be pretty brief, so he may appear to be back to normal within 15-30 minutes, or for some people, almost immediately. New onset seizures for an adult generally are not a good thing though, and they're usually a symptom of some underlying factor (neurologic, toxic, etc.). It could also mean he'll never fly again. I hope for his sake that neither proves to be true.
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RE: UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
| Quoting KELPkid (Reply 18): Unfortunately for our hapless first officer, it will expose him to extra medical scrutiny and examination until the cause is definitely determined... |
Very unfortunately indeed.
A dire reality of the pilot profession, other than the fact that corporate management of airlines have stripped it to its bones where pilots are now underpaid, overworked and straining under a ton of debts, is that the intense medical scrutiny can, at any moment, mercilessly and summarily put you out of a job, a career and a profession.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
RE: UA 787 At ABQ, F.O. "Passed Out" - 10/6
It's cool that a 787 paid a visit to ABQ. I grew up in New Mexico and plane spotted at Albuquerque "Sunport" with my dad any opportunity I had. I remember in the very early 70s an American Airlines 747 diverted because of a bomb scare. It was such a pleasure seeing the rare big jet visit.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
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