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allrite
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:27 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 49):
If it is the middle of the night halfway across the Atlantic or Pacific oceans there is absolutely NOTHING to look at. Generally there are cloud layers above and below you. So watch the AVOD, sleep, or read a book.

I guess that there is no light outside to disturb anyone either so it doesn't matter if the shades are open!  

[Edited 2015-10-07 19:28:22]
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:29 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 49):
If it is the middle of the night halfway across the Atlantic or Pacific oceans there is absolutely NOTHING to look at.

If it's dark, who cares? Going to or from South America and to a lesser extent going to Europe, waking up with the sun helps me with jetlag (or travel fatigue in the case of the north-south flights, which don't cross as many time zones).
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:24 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 42):
Very few people "pay" for a window seat. Most just choose it. You pay for a seat and get a window if you're lucky.As others have mentioned nothing worse than some numpty opening their window shade into the bright sun when it's a dark cabin of sleeping people...1 open window shade literally lights up an entire cabin so it is incredibly selfish when someone does that.... oh look a cloud... and another cloud... oh and endless ocean...wow. Sure there are sometimes interesting things to look at and most people understand that and it is fine but most long haul flights are over nothingness.

PTV light up the cabin more seriously then a open-ed window shade, should all PTV be required to turn off just to keep the cabin dark enough for people to sleep?

[Edited 2015-10-07 20:25:12]
 
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hongkongflyer
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:27 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 49):
So watch the AVOD, sleep, or read a book

So why don't you bring an eye mask or train to enable youselves to sleep when the cabin is not 100% dark?
 
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seahawk
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:51 am

Quoting hongkongflyer (Reply 52):
PTV light up the cabin more seriously then a open-ed window shade, should all PTV be required to turn off just to keep the cabin dark enough for people to sleep?

Removing the IFE is a great idea. It saves money and makes the cabin even darker. Just offer a USB connection and be done with it. If people want to be entertained, let them bring their own device and content.
 
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:56 am

Quoting zululima (Reply 5):
Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
Actually, it would make sense. The parts are standardized

You think having different windows for one of the three derivatives is standardization?

The problems will come when and if they remove the electronic Dimming function and again install window shades
Especially in costs. If the modification to install window shades comes in as Less than maintaining the Dimming function?
Electronically dimming windows will be out like rancid cat food..
 
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allrite
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:41 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 54):
Removing the IFE is a great idea. It saves money and makes the cabin even darker. Just offer a USB connection and be done with it. If people want to be entertained, let them bring their own device and content.

Then people can rant about inconsiderate their seat mates are for generating light on their own devices and disturbing their beauty sleep.
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:05 pm

Quoting KLMD11L (Reply 44):
I think a lot of airlines like the new windows 'cause it enables them to keep pax asleep for the longest possible time in a dark cabin thus minimizing their demands, which is another way to cut costs.

Not for all the airlines that make money selling food and drink

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 49):

If it is the middle of the night halfway across the Atlantic or Pacific oceans there is absolutely NOTHING to look at. Generally there are cloud layers above and below you.

There is still a lot to look at even at night. Leave it up to the customer, if you personally need complete dark to sleep then stop being selfish and buy sleeping masks.
 
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:19 pm

Ooooo... Another ancillary revenue opportunity - individual control of the window tint level!
 
N867DA
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:02 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 49):
If it is the middle of the night halfway across the Atlantic or Pacific oceans there is absolutely NOTHING to look at.

Some of the best views I've had are watching the lights of other planes pass by. There's just enough moonlight sometimes to see contrails, and the way the light hits the water six miles below is also nothing short of beautiful. There's the off-chance for auroras, random ships at sea, and so much more. If you know a bit about the route you can even make out cities and islands.

I'm considerate--I'll open the window just an inch or two and put a blanket over my head. But I plan ahead and get a window seat for a reason. I don't fly often anymore, and when I do I want to enjoy it my way. Maybe I should start carrying new eye shades and hand them out to the complainers. I'll be glad to see the e-tint go away.
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:23 pm

Quoting jeffh747 (Reply 32):

If I pay for a window seat, I will look out that window for the entire duration of the flight. I don't care if anyone near me wants to sleep, that is your problem for not selecting a window seat fast enough so you could control it. Simple as that.

You're exactly the kind of person most people dread flying next to.

What if your seatmate is trying to watch something on their PTV and the glare from your window is interfering with their ability to watch what they want to watch? Some might argue they paid for that seat (like you paid for your illustrious window that you hold kingdom over) and deserve as much right to enjoyment as you do.

I'd hate to see your response then.

"TOO BAD! IT'S *MY* WINDOW. MINE! MINE!! MINE!!!"
 
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:29 pm

Quoting wanderlustlax (Reply 60):

You're exactly the kind of person most people dread flying next to.

What if your seatmate is trying to watch something on their PTV and the glare from your window is interfering with their ability to watch what they want to watch? Some might argue they paid for that seat (like you paid for your illustrious window that you hold kingdom over) and deserve as much right to enjoyment as you do.

I'd hate to see your response then.

"TOO BAD! IT'S *MY* WINDOW. MINE! MINE!! MINE!!!"

Very well said. He's like "my freaking window, the other 400 pax on the plane be d*mned"
 
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:38 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 49):
If it is the middle of the night halfway across the Atlantic or Pacific oceans there is absolutely NOTHING to look at. Generally there are cloud layers above and below you. So watch the AVOD, sleep, or read a book.

Not so sure about that as sometimes you may encounter a Japanese feet in MidPac. They light up the ocean like a small city. Northern lights come to mind crossing the Atlantic. Point is someone else mentioned, it's my window seat and I want control over the shade, not some flight attendant that would rather have me sleeping so I don't bother their galley socials.
 
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:34 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 61):
Very well said. He's like "my freaking window, the other 400 pax on the plane be d*mned"

So under what circumstances would one window being open make 400 passengers unable to see their PTVs? Unless we're flying 2 feet from the sun I don't think that'll happen- and if it does you've got bigger problems than not being able to see the last half of Marnie & Me.

At best it may affect the window seat which I'm in, plus maybe the adjacent middle seat if the plane's at the right angle. Under those circumstances I will lower the top half of the shade, which will block the light from the screens but I can still see out the bottom. Can't do that with these dimmers though.
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alfa164
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:20 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 15):
A few individuals who decide to flood the entire cabin with sunlight when everybody else is trying to sleep is the problem... A minority of people seat near the window, and even less care about looking outside during the flight. People want to rest and make time go as fast as possible. Overriding individual control of the shades by the cabin crew was the best feature of those fancy dimmable windows if you ask me.

  


Quoting 77west (Reply 16):
I pay for a window seat, I will look out my window.

No... you pay for an airline to take you from Point A to Point B. Unless you see a line on your reservation that says "Extra fee for Window Seat with Guaranteed Right to Open Shades and Disturb Other Passengers", then you need to learn to live within the norms of the people around you.

Perhaps you think you should be allowed to smoke and ruin the air of everyone around you as well.

Quoting jeffh747 (Reply 32):
If I pay for a window seat,

Read above. The sense of entitlement on A.net is amazing.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 42):
Very few people "pay" for a window seat. Most just choose it. You pay for a seat and get a window if you're lucky.
As others have mentioned nothing worse than some numpty opening their window shade into the bright sun when it's a dark cabin of sleeping people...1 open window shade literally lights up an entire cabin so it is incredibly selfish when someone does that.... oh look a cloud... and another cloud... oh and endless ocean...wow. Sure there are sometimes interesting things to look at and most people understand that and it is fine but most long haul flights are over nothingness.

     

Quoting a380787 (Reply 48):
So you'll make 400 pax wear masks just so you can look outside. That's ridiculously selfish Another reason why I support Boeing's electro dimmer choice ... The selfish jerks can fly on airlines other than mine

        
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hilram
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:42 pm

Many people "pay" for a window seat in that they pay the extra fee to reserve a specific seat on the plane - and then choose a window seat because they like to look out. I am one of those.

Now, if there is a night flight that takes off at 11pm, and it is understood that most people wan to sleep, I perfectly understand if the crews dim the cabin. But to so "by default" dim it every time the wheels go up, that is just lazyness combined with ignorance. (Or more likely: The manual.)
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:54 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
I, for one, LOVE the electro shades, but HATE that they gave control to the cabin crew. Makes it pointless to even HAVE a window in an airplane when the crew turns them to "dimmest" as soon as the wheels come up. And brightens them while descending through 10,000FT.

I guess this is upto each airline to decide what their policy is. If its just UA and their lazy FA's then its a management issue that needs to be addressed.

As for it becoming bright at 10,000 feet I believe that is not under crews control but its hard coded into the system.
 
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:59 pm

Quoting hilram (Reply 65):
Now, if there is a night flight that takes off at 11pm, and it is understood that most people wan to sleep, I perfectly understand if the crews dim the cabin. But to so "by default" dim it every time the wheels go up, that is just lazyness combined with ignorance. (Or more likely: The manual.)

Well if the "manual" if the GOM, then they are legally obligated to comply with it.
 
surfpunk
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:05 pm

Quoting aviatorcraig (Reply 22):
You could go by train then. Big windows, great view. Thank God they don't send them down tunnels under big cities or under the sea... oh, wait...

Awesome! I could take a train from North America to Europe or Asia through one of those cool undersea tunnels....

Oh, wait........
 
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:14 pm

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 64):
No... you pay for an airline to take you from Point A to Point B. Unless you see a line on your reservation that says "Extra fee for Window Seat with Guaranteed Right to Open Shades and Disturb Other Passengers", then you need to learn to live within the norms of the people around you.

Perhaps you think you should be allowed to smoke and ruin the air of everyone around you as well.

I will keep that in mind next time my neighbors have their IFE on (also the row in the front since I'm taller). They did not pay for the entertainment and that they will need to turn it off when I'm around because my needs to sleep are more important than another individuals.
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alfa164
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:15 pm

Quoting hilram (Reply 65):
Many people "pay" for a window seat in that they pay the extra fee to reserve a specific seat on the plane - and then choose a window seat because they like to look out. I am one of those. Now, if there is a night flight that takes off at 11pm, and it is understood that most people wan to sleep, I perfectly understand if the crews dim the cabin.

I cannot disagree. I have no problems with anyone looking outside during normal daytime hours, and I would hope other would not object as well. The problem occurs - particularly on Trans-oceanic flights - when virtually the entire cabin wants (and, quite frankly, needs) to be able to sleep, and some jerk decides he or she is determined to light up the cabin.

Quoting surfpunk (Reply 68):

Quoting aviatorcraig (Reply 22):
You could go by train then. Big windows, great view. Thank God they don't send them down tunnels under big cities or under the sea... oh, wait...

Awesome! I could take a train from North America to Europe or Asia through one of those cool undersea tunnels....

That is why god gave you a ship. Look out those portholes and enjoy yourself.
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surfpunk
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:18 pm

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 70):
That is why god gave you a ship. Look out those portholes and enjoy yourself.

I've spent enough time on ships for one lifetime. And the ones I was on didn't have portholes.  
 
a380787
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:20 pm

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 70):

I cannot disagree. I have no problems with anyone looking outside during normal daytime hours, and I would hope other would not object as well. The problem occurs - particularly on Trans-oceanic flights - when virtually the entire cabin wants (and, quite frankly, needs) to be able to sleep, and some jerk decides he or she is determined to light up the cabin.

        

The weirdest is when they open it wide then go to sleep. Apparently they didn't get enough UV rays while on earth they have to get it high up in the sky when they're close to the Sun.
 
GavinSharp
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:45 pm

So disappointing that this thread devolved into a "window shade rights" slap-fest like the other one, rather than focusing on the actual topic (which system will upcoming Boeing planes get).
 
copter808
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:58 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 48):
So you'll make 400 pax wear masks just so you can look outside. That's ridiculously selfish

You're assuming that they all want it dark. Many probably do not.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 63):
Can't do that with these dimmers though.

Why would you want to open it half-way when you could have the entire window dimmed to where you can still see outside, yet your seatmate can still see the IFE? If you open the shade enough to bend down and look out the bottom, you're still letting in far more light than the dimmed window would.

And WHY do we insist on closing the shades on a NIGHT flight? We want to close the shades to keep the DARKNESS out so we can sleep in the DARK??
 
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gatibosgru
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:55 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 37):

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 13):
I have heard that some carriers have also complained that the windows are too hot to the touch when facing the sun.

True, but "old school" window shades get hot in the sun too...

Shades tend to be white/off white. Those dark electrochromic glasses probably store more heat than the shades do.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 48):

Quoting Moose135 (Reply 46):

So you'll make 400 pax wear masks just so you can look outside. That's ridiculously selfish

Another reason why I support Boeing's electro dimmer choice ... The selfish jerks can fly on airlines other than mine

This argument will never go anywhere. You're under the assumption that all 400 want the plane dark. What if it is 50/50? Who gets to have it their way?

You're pretty much being as "selfish" as those you complain about, making others not be able to look out a window so you can sleep.

Every passenger, to the best of their ability, should prepare to fly in the manner that is most comfortable to them. I should prepare to potentially sit in the dark while pax are sleeping (if bright out) and find a way to entertain myself, and you should prepare to be able to sleep when others want the windows open.

Should I turn off my reading light because it may bother you? No. How about my PTV? No.

If you want your shades down, get a window seat and have control of it. If not, then your opinion shouldn't matter more than mine and neither of us will win the argument.

I personally love to look out the window throughout the flight, even if it is just over the Atlantic at 1am just to look at the stars. I however am not selfish enough to, like you suggested, force others to accommodate to my views. So I shouldn't HAVE to sit in the dark because YOU want to sleep, not should you not be able to sleep because I WANT to look out the window.

There is no easy solution to this "I like it this way and therefore it should be" argument. There will always be 2 sides, and we'll always be biased to our side. No need to call anyone selfish because we all are to an extent.
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a380787
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:03 pm

Quoting copter808 (Reply 74):

You're assuming that they all want it dark. Many probably do not.
Quoting gatibosgru (Reply 75):

This argument will never go anywhere. You're under the assumption that all 400 want the plane dark. What if it is 50/50? Who gets to have it their way?

Ever heard of the overhead light ???

That way your seat is illuminated for whatever you want it to be, with minimal disruption to the plane.

Yea go find me a transoceanic 15 hour flight where 50/50 distribution of people wanting broad sunlight. Go ahead, I'm waiting.
 
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:24 pm

Quoting copter808 (Reply 74):
Why would you want to open it half-way when you could have the entire window dimmed

The point is that I want the natural light because if I'm on a Transatlantic day flight, I want to stay awake for the whole time, otherwise my body clock will be absolutely destroyed when I arrive. Ditto if I'm on any overnight flight which doesn't cross timezones. When it's dark, the shades can be lowered without issue; when it's light I want all that sunlight hitting the back of my retinas.

On a night flight heading east, it's another matter entirely- I have no objections to lowering the shades for an extra hour or two before and after sunset to account for the shorter night.

Quoting copter808 (Reply 74):
If you open the shade enough to bend down and look out the bottom, you're still letting in far more light than the dimmed window would.

But it's not interfering with the PTVs (unless you're saying the sun is below the plane, which would be odd). It might still let in visible light, but that will only affect those trying to sleep when it's light, and they can wear masks.
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b747400erf
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:07 am

Quoting wanderlustlax (Reply 60):

I'd hate to see your response then.

"TOO BAD! IT'S *MY* WINDOW. MINE! MINE!! MINE!!!"

That is your attitude, you demand the entire airplane conform to your desires rather than do the simple action of buying a sleeping mask so no light disturbs you.

And I have horrible news, the glare from the in flight entertainment screens is far worse than any open window shade.

The amount of selfish entitled people that have no idea they are selfish and entitled is simply amazing.
 
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seahawk
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:17 am

There are only 2 persons each row that can look out of the window, but at least 4 that are disturbed by the light. Shades should be closed on every flight and only opened by the FA for take-off and landing.
 
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zckls04
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:39 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 78):
The amount of selfish entitled people that have no idea they are selfish and entitled is simply amazing.

        
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L0VE2FLY
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:41 pm

Quoting KLMD11L (Reply 44):
I think a lot of airlines like the new windows 'cause it enables them to keep pax asleep for the longest possible time in a dark cabin thus minimizing their demands, which is another way to cut costs. The problem is we, the people who appreciate the beautiful aerial views are the minority and nobody cares about our opinion.

That's probably the reason why the e-tint is here to stay even if the mechanical shades become available on the 787, it makes it so easy for airlines to keep their pax asleep at any time of the day, basically treating adults like little kids at some childcare centers!  
.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 48):
So you'll make 400 pax wear masks just so you can look outside. That's ridiculously selfish

Another reason why I support Boeing's electro dimmer choice ... The selfish jerks can fly on airlines other than mine

You're just as selfish by forcing everyone to sit in a dark cabin, not everyone wants to sleep for hours even on the longest flights.


Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 58):
Ooooo... Another ancillary revenue opportunity - individual control of the window tint level!

Depending on how scenic the flight is, I'd pay to have full control of my window on a 787.


Quoting copter808 (Reply 74):
And WHY do we insist on closing the shades on a NIGHT flight? We want to close the shades to keep the DARKNESS out so we can sleep in the DARK??

They close them so when the sun rises later it won't wake up sleeping pax.


Quoting seahawk (Reply 79):
There are only 2 persons each row that can look out of the window, but at least 4 that are disturbed by the light. Shades should be closed on every flight and only opened by the FA for take-off and landing.

Not all 4 are disturbed, not everyone is like you!   Are you a nervous flyer? I can't believe someone who supposedly loves aviation hates looking out the window that much.  
 
senatorflyer
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:47 pm

I actually wonder how many of the members posting above are actually regular flyers? Fact is that people are all different, some only can sleep when the light is on, others only when it is dark and some frankly don't give a s*** because they sleep regardless. Then we have the transfer pax who might have gotten up 6 hours before the rest of the pax and want to sleep as soon as they have put a foot on the plane. Disaster! What now? Separate cabin for them? PTV and the individual light above the seat are also a distraction for people who like it dark. More complications! A cinema on board would be ideal in that case, I assume.

Now seriously, flying is a mode of transport.We all sit in a tube for 8-12 hours, eat rubbish food mainly, share a toilet with 50-100 people, sit on a seat where thousands of people left their bacteria in it. But you know what? Every single one of us is trying to make the best out of it. So I would advise, if you need it to be dark, take a mask with you in case it's not dark enough. If you think everyone needs to do what you think is right then rent a private jet.

[Edited 2015-10-12 14:49:41]
 
KLMD11L
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:00 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 49):
If it is the middle of the night halfway across the Atlantic or Pacific oceans there is absolutely NOTHING to look at. Generally there are cloud layers above and below you. So watch the AVOD, sleep, or read a book.

If it's an endless cloud layer or ocean, I won't be looking out the window for hours on end and I'll have no problem closing my window.


Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 57):
Not for all the airlines that make money selling food and drink

Most LCCs don't operate the 787.


Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 81):
That's probably the reason why the e-tint is here to stay even if the mechanical shades become available on the 787, it makes it so easy for airlines to keep their pax asleep at any time of the day, basically treating adults like little kids at some childcare centers!

   The best case scenario would be if Boeing offers the mechanical shades on all 787s in the future and make it possible for operators to choose the shades and/or e-tint, some airlines might go for the shades only to minimize maintenance costs.
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seahawk
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:53 am

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 81):
Not all 4 are disturbed, not everyone is like you! Are you a nervous flyer? I can't believe someone who supposedly loves aviation hates looking out the window that much.

No, but when travelling on business trips I see flying as an unavoidable necessity and do not love it. There is no fun in spending up to 10 hours in a tube with hundreds of other people and then having to give a presentation 2-3 hours after landing.

Apart from that PowerShade and similar systems mean that the industry is moving into my direction and more and more shades will get a FA override.
 
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:55 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 84):
Apart from that PowerShade and similar systems mean that the industry is moving into my direction and more and more shades will get a FA override.

There are several sets of people here
1) Like to look out of the window now and again
2) Demand utter darkness to sleep
3) Prefer it mainly dark so they can watch movies

I don't know what you guys are actually arguing about tbh.2) is an extreme position in my view, most of the time there's only a few shades open anyway so some ambient light. In my view, the only reasonable time to insist on the shade being down is to prevent an overnight sleeper being awoken by the dawn. Even if you do want to shoot the sunrise, it's possible to do so without FLOODING the cabin with light.
The idea that we HAVE to sit ina darkened tube on a daylight flight is anathema to me, especially when eyeshades make the issue moot for most reasonable people in that situation. This has turned into a typical internet "debate" with neither side giving an inch and not even listening to the other guy. Eyeshades and most people having shades closed with a few exceptions works most of the time. 1) and 3) are not mutually exclusive. Let's be honest, the reason cabib crew want the shades down and peeps asleep is to make their lives easier, I know enough of them to be sure of that. To be clear, that's not what I am paying for, and so long as I am not royally annoying others (excluding the "there's always one" guy), I like to be able to look out of a window. Others like to be able to sleep / game / watch a dvd. It's usually possible to permit both.....
 
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pvjin
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:50 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 84):
No, but when travelling on business trips I see flying as an unavoidable necessity and do not love it. There is no fun in spending up to 10 hours in a tube with hundreds of other people and then having to give a presentation 2-3 hours after landing.

There is no fun spending 10 hours in a tube without being able to see the ground because somebody is too lazy to bring those things you can use to cover your eyes to sleep.

For the record I can't sleep in an airplane, dark or not. Thus whenever there's daylight I want to be able to see outside. I will avoid any airline that takes away that right from me. Also, to many nervous fliers not being able to see outside is bad. It should be entirely up to the pax sitting on window seat whether to keep the window shade up or down, apart from takeoff and landing.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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zkokq
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:40 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 79):

I disagree. I book a window seat because I want to see out the window. I also like to photograph the flight as a part time photographer, as I am entitled too. Want to control the window, pay for seat selection, choose a window and close the shade!
 
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:08 am

Quoting zkokq (Reply 87):
I disagree. I book a window seat because I want to see out the window. I also like to photograph the flight as a part time photographer, as I am entitled too. Want to control the window, pay for seat selection, choose a window and close the shade!

I would fully agree with that, the day the window seat costs more than the others. Until then you did not pay for a window seat.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:20 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 88):
I would fully agree with that, the day the window seat costs more than the others. Until then you did not pay for a window seat.

Just go buy eye shades if a bit of healthy sunlight bothers you so much.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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zkokq
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:26 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 88):
I would fully agree with that, the day the window seat costs more than the others. Until then you did not pay for a window seat.

Your statement is redundant. If you want a seat, you pay for it. If you want to control the blind, pay for the seat selection.
 
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seahawk
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:34 pm

Quoting zkokq (Reply 90):
Your statement is redundant. If you want a seat, you pay for it. If you want to control the blind, pay for the seat selection.

What does the control of my blind help, when the one in front is open?
 
N867DA
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:56 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 89):

Quoting seahawk (Reply 88):
I would fully agree with that, the day the window seat costs more than the others. Until then you did not pay for a window seat.

Just go buy eye shades if a bit of healthy sunlight bothers you so much.

Too logical. Honestly, I get that other passengers can be annoying. Something that annoys me is when people play music without headphones in the subway. I wish I had earplugs and I can recognize that it's rude. But flying is rarer for most people, there's often stuff to see, and people tend to plan ahead for a flight with greater care. Also while many airlines provide eye shades no subway system in the world provide ear plugs.
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AngMoh
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:03 pm

Quoting zkokq (Reply 90):
Your statement is redundant. If you want a seat, you pay for it. If you want to control the blind, pay for the seat selection.

So if I fly on a full fare high cost ticket and I pay more than you, I can determine if you can open the window shade? So last time I paid 1000+ USD for a SFO - BOS Y seat in the last row (and probably paid more than anyone else on the whole plane), I can determine what they need to go to just because I paid more?

Quoting zkokq (Reply 87):
I disagree. I book a window seat because I want to see out the window. I also like to photograph the flight as a part time photographer, as I am entitled too.

You are entitled to a safe flight on the route you booked and to be on time. If you paid for a window seat, you are entitled to sit in that window seat. However, you are not "entitled" to determine if the blind is open or not because you never paid for that or signed a contract with allows you so.


It seems that people on this thread never fly long distance across many time zones. If an airline does not enforce the shades, I take my high yield full fare ticket to another airline. Those people who want to sleep are in general the people who are sent by their companies on trips they don't want to be on, in Y class because the company does not want to pay more. And most importantly, they are airline's most profitable customers because they pay full fare fully flexible fares. Unlike what everyone thinks, business travel is not a holiday.

That is why if I am on a business trip to Denmark I fly back from Frankfurt to Asia and not from Copenhagen, because from Frankfurt the flight is full of tired business people who want to sleep, while if I fly back from Copenhagen it is full of Scandinavians on their way to a holiday and the plane is the first place where they get drunk for free.

I have never had a short distance (less than 7 hours) flight with limited timezone crossings where shades were enforced. The times it was enforced, it was needed for the benefit of the general population (courtesy is such a difficult concept....)
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seahawk
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:33 pm

Quoting N867DA (Reply 92):

Too logical. Honestly, I get that other passengers can be annoying. Something that annoys me is when people play music without headphones in the subway. I wish I had earplugs and I can recognize that it's rude. But flying is rarer for most people, there's often stuff to see, and people tend to plan ahead for a flight with greater care. Also while many airlines provide eye shades no subway system in the world provide ear plugs.

Do not get me wrong, in economy I am totally happy to sleep with the windows open, it just annoys me in business. Especially when the person is sleeping, but kept the shade up. Open shades do not disturb me when food is served or after take-off, even one open shade is okay, when a person wants to look outside, but I hate people in business class who have their shades open and sleep or watch a movie at the time.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:35 pm

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 93):
It seems that people on this thread never fly long distance across many time zones.

I do. And for two thirds of the principal long-haul routes from the States (to and from Europe and South America) I like shades up on most flights. You act as though everyone wants the shades closed on every long-haul, and that's not at all the case.
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pygmalion
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:00 pm

The adoption of the e-shades is one of the things that enabled Boeing and others to reduce the thickness of the sidewalls and increase cabin width at shoulder height. The old shades take up more than an inch of additional space between the sidewall and the structural window frame above the window. That shade has to have somewhere to go. Boeing will not redesign all the sidewall panels, galleys, lavatories, partitions etc to add back in old fashioned shades that add weight and complexity to the aircraft on any new design. The new e-shades increase passenger choice by letting them have some control over the dimmer instead of a binary choice of open or closed. Most FAs will tell you to close the old shades when flying across time zones during the aircraft local night time.

e-shades will become more and more common. They save the manufacturer money, reduce complexity and increase cabin space where it is most useful. They save the airline maintenance costs and the vast majority of the flying public actually like them.

Get used to it. They are here to stay
 
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pvjin
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:22 pm

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 93):
It seems that people on this thread never fly long distance across many time zones. If an airline does not enforce the shades, I take my high yield full fare ticket to another airline. Those people who want to sleep are in general the people who are sent by their companies on trips they don't want to be on, in Y class because the company does not want to pay more. And most importantly, they are airline's most profitable customers because they pay full fare fully flexible fares. Unlike what everyone thinks, business travel is not a holiday.

Ever heard of eye shades? I certainly don't want to miss a look at beautiful Afghan mountains during a flight from Helsinki to Bangkok just because someone doesn't bother spending a couple of euros to buy those. I'm not privileged enough to be able to sleep with or without eye shades either, so should I stare at some boring movies for entire 10 hour flight?
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
futureorthopod
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:45 pm

Yep FA's can dim and brighten the windows; however, after they have done so I have always found it very easy to simply adjust it to what I want afterwards. I don't feel like they have taken control away from me.

Hope the e-windows stay. If a decision was made to scrap the e-windows for the manual shade pull down for me it would be like warping back to riding in cars with crank windows.
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zckls04
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RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:42 pm

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 93):
It seems that people on this thread never fly long distance across many time zones

I fly twice monthly on flights which span 8 timezones. I often rely on natural sunlight to regulate my body and minimize jetlag. Stop assuming everybody is like you; there are good reasons for wanting natural light.

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 93):
If an airline does not enforce the shades, I take my high yield full fare ticket to another airline.

No you won't. If you're too disorganized to bring an eye mask, you're not going to be organized enough to boycott an airline. You'll fly the same airline again, and just complain about it.

Quoting pygmalion (Reply 96):
Get used to it. They are here to stay

That's certainly true- although it's going to be many years before they're on the majority of flights I suspect, given that Airbus have not included them on any planes yet, and AFAIK neither the 777X or the MAX include them.
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