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AngMoh
Posts: 1080
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:03 am

RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:49 am

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 99):
I fly twice monthly on flights which span 8 timezones. I often rely on natural sunlight to regulate my body and minimize jetlag. Stop assuming everybody is like you; there are good reasons for wanting natural light.

And there are very good reasons to want it dark. And there are very good reasons why one side might have all windows closed and another side all windows open.

Some simple examples:

Flying Asia LHR, midnight departure. It does not matter if they are open or closed. I flew last time window seat with window open all flight. There was nothing really to see.

Flying Asia LHR, late morning departure. All windows on the left are closed. Some on the right are open, some are closed. The reason is sun comes from the left and the glare is horrendous. Opening those shades affects absolutely everyone including those watching a movie, reading a book, working on their laptop or sleeping. If I pick a window seat, I pick one on the right so I can have a look and not annoy others.

Flying LHR to Asia, noon departure. Shades on right are closed due to glare. On most flights all shades are closed after dinner service around 4-5 hours into the flight to enforce an early night. You are woken up at 4AM local time for breakfast so the shades are closed a bit early to get a 6 hour long night.

Flying LHR to Asia, late night departure. Shades are closed immediately. If not, the cabin will be bright at 3AM UK time when there is still another 7 hours to go. For the comfort of everyone and to help adjust to the time zones, they are closed till about 2 hours before landing.

All of these are reasonable and put in place to try to accommodate the "average" passenger. My personal timing is normally out of sync with what is normal for the "average" passenger.

BTW: the mood lighting in 777, 787, A50 and A380 is all part of having people adjust better to time zones. And that only works when shades are closed.

It just amazes me the number of people who claim that they are entitled to do what they want and don't give a s**t about other passengers.You are stuck with 400 people in a narrow tube for up to 16 hours - having to be considerate is a necessity. I have only been once or twice asked to close a shade and always complied because the crew is trying to accommodate the average passenger. I have never seen a crew trying to impose unreasonable restrictions. Reading threads like this you start to understand why being cabin crew is not an easy job.
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zkokq
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:44 am

RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:51 am

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 93):
So if I fly on a full fare high cost ticket and I pay more than you, I can determine if you can open the window shade? So last time I paid 1000+ USD for a SFO - BOS Y seat in the last row (and probably paid more than anyone else on the whole plane), I can determine what they need to go to just because I paid more?

You clearly didnt read my post did you, so I will repeat it. If you want to control the blinds, pay for the window seat.

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 93):
You are entitled to a safe flight on the route you booked and to be on time. If you paid for a window seat, you are entitled to sit in that window seat. However, you are not "entitled" to determine if the blind is open or not because you never paid for that or signed a contract with allows you so.

Safety is in NO WAY compromised by me having the blind open. If anything its enhanced.

And for the record, I fly longhaul AU-USA-AU regularly. I pay for the window seat and I have my shade open. If an FA asks me to close it, I decline politely explaining I am not sleeping and I wish to view the beautiful sunset. And they say thank you, enjoy your flight.

If you want darkness, buy some eye shades. Dont tell me what to do.
 
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zckls04
Posts: 2785
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:55 pm

RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:05 am

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 100):
It just amazes me the number of people who claim that they are entitled to do what they want and don't give a s**t about other passengers.

And you don't see the slightest irony in this statement? I'm not the one demanding another passenger conforms to my demands. This thread should clearly demonstrate that there are lots of other people who don't want or need darkness during day flights.

Quoting zkokq (Reply 101):
If you want darkness, buy some eye shades. Dont tell me what to do.

Yup.
Four Granavox Turbines!
 
futureorthopod
Posts: 183
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:08 am

RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:26 am

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 100):
It just amazes me the number of people who claim that they are entitled to do what they want and don't give a s**t about other passengers.You are stuck with 400 people in a narrow tube for up to 16 hours - having to be considerate is a necessity. I have only been once or twice asked to close a shade and always complied because the crew is trying to accommodate the average passenger. I have never seen a crew trying to impose unreasonable restrictions. Reading threads like this you start to understand why being cabin crew is not an easy job.

Hahaha the irony of this statement is real.
 
L0VE2FLY
Topic Author
Posts: 1027
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:54 pm

RE: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:42 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 84):
No, but when travelling on business trips I see flying as an unavoidable necessity and do not love it. There is no fun in spending up to 10 hours in a tube with hundreds of other people and then having to give a presentation 2-3 hours after landing.

Not everyone on the plane is like you, some pax who don't fly often like to enjoy the views and have NO alternative, you on the other hand can spend a measly amount on a pair of eyeshades that will last you a lifetime!


Quoting seahawk (Reply 84):
Apart from that PowerShade and similar systems mean that the industry is moving into my direction and more and more shades will get a FA override.

I have some good and bad news for you...Good: The e-tint is here to stay, unfortunately.   Bad: It'll take decades for the e-tint to become standard on all airliners.


Quoting pygmalion (Reply 96):
The adoption of the e-shades is one of the things that enabled Boeing and others to reduce the thickness of the sidewalls and increase cabin width at shoulder height. The old shades take up more than an inch of additional space between the sidewall and the structural window frame above the window. That shade has to have somewhere to go. Boeing will not redesign all the sidewall panels, galleys, lavatories, partitions etc to add back in old fashioned shades that add weight and complexity to the aircraft on any new design.

I think you're right, but I still hope the e-tint will prove unpopular/unreliable over time and won't be offered on future aircraft.


Quoting pygmalion (Reply 96):
The new e-shades increase passenger choice by letting them have some control over the dimmer instead of a binary choice of open or closed.

The e-tint would've been great if the control was in the hands of pax only.


Quoting zckls04 (Reply 99):
That's certainly true- although it's going to be many years before they're on the majority of flights I suspect, given that Airbus have not included them on any planes yet

Airbus is offering another way to allow the cabin crew full control over the windows, electrical blinds between the window panes of the A350. The good news is they're optional.
 
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BaconButty
Posts: 878
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:42 pm

Re: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:48 pm

Lot's of discussion on the pro's and cons of electrochromatic windows, but the fact is airlines either don't want them, or aren't willing to pay for them:

The 777X cabin will also feature larger windows, similar to a 787 cabin that offers passengers a view of the horizon from any seat. There will still be some technical differences between the two aircraft, unless Boeing announces more changes before the type enters service in 2020. The 787, for example, introduced electro-chromic windows, replacing window shades with devices that can adjust the opacity of the transparencies.

“We’ll look at what customers tell us about the windows,” Fancher says. “We might make some design changes there, but today it’s mechanical shades.”

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 7x-401712/

So unless things change, there's your answer.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
Planetalk
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:12 pm

Re: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:28 pm

A lot of people here are under the misconception that choosing a window seat buys them ownership of the window itself for the duration of the flight. I'm afraid it does not. Just as choosing an aisle seat does not give you ownership of half the aisle, or the right to deny the people next to you access to the aisle.

A plane is a public space, and like any public space social norms are developed for its use for the maximum overall comfort of all using it. The windows remain very much under the control of the flight crew, as their taking control of the dimmable windows shows. If the crew ask you to close your blind because that is what the majority of people on a flight want (no use whining, that is the reality, and that's why airlines do it, they're not in the habit of deliberately antagonizing their customers). If the solution that satisfies the majority does not infringe the actual (not imagined) rights of anyone, then I'm afraid you have to suck it up.

I prefer the window seat, and I like looking out of the window. But as I'm not 5 years old I understand that the comfort of the majority on board trumps my desire (note it's a desire, not a right) to look out of the window.

Do those of you proudly boasting that you paid for the window seat so you will have the blind open behave with no regard for social norms in other walks of life? If you sit in a double seat in the cinema do you loudly talk to your partner because 'hey, I paid for shared seat with my partner, so I'm damn well going to talk to them, they can put subtitles on if everyone else is bothered'. You see how ridiculous your position is? Having a particular seat in a public space does not give you the any of the rights you claim it does. And if you're the type to argue with cabin crew making a request to lower it, maybe start asking if perhaps you're the bad guy here?

As someone said, you're in a narrow metal tube shared with hundreds of other people for hours on end. Flying would very quickly get unbearable if everyone took this kind of entitled attitude with them. Ask yourself if perhaps behaving courteously in this regard is a small price to pay so that your flight is not ruined by other people doing far worse things, with the same justification you attempt to use here.
 
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BaconButty
Posts: 878
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:42 pm

Re: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 pm

BaconButty wrote:
Lot's of discussion on the pro's and cons of electrochromatic windows, but the fact is airlines either don't want them, or aren't willing to pay for them:

The 777X cabin will also feature larger windows, similar to a 787 cabin that offers passengers a view of the horizon from any seat. There will still be some technical differences between the two aircraft, unless Boeing announces more changes before the type enters service in 2020. The 787, for example, introduced electro-chromic windows, replacing window shades with devices that can adjust the opacity of the transparencies.

“We’ll look at what customers tell us about the windows,” Fancher says. “We might make some design changes there, but today it’s mechanical shades.”

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 7x-401712/

So unless things change, there's your answer.

Oops replied to the wrong thread - sorry for the zombie one - too late to delete.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
Planetalk
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:12 pm

Re: Is Boeing Doing Away With The 787 E-tint Windows?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:52 pm

BaconButty wrote:
BaconButty wrote:
Lot's of discussion on the pro's and cons of electrochromatic windows, but the fact is airlines either don't want them, or aren't willing to pay for them:

The 777X cabin will also feature larger windows, similar to a 787 cabin that offers passengers a view of the horizon from any seat. There will still be some technical differences between the two aircraft, unless Boeing announces more changes before the type enters service in 2020. The 787, for example, introduced electro-chromic windows, replacing window shades with devices that can adjust the opacity of the transparencies.

“We’ll look at what customers tell us about the windows,” Fancher says. “We might make some design changes there, but today it’s mechanical shades.”

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 7x-401712/

So unless things change, there's your answer.

Oops replied to the wrong thread - sorry for the zombie one - too late to delete.


Haha, yeh I noticed after my reply that it was 4 years old, doh!

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