bjorn14
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Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:22 pm

According to the Denver Post, Frontier wants to give back 6 gates and return almost 11,000 sq. ft. of leased space. Frontier said it was to 'right size' DEN. The move would save F9 $3MM a year and leave it with 8 gates.

Is there recent expansion sustainable with this reduction of gates?

Sorry if this has been posted before.
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enilria
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:56 pm

What expansion?

As of JAN they added DEN-CLT and DEN-PHL, but dropped DEN to:

BIS
BZN
CID
CLE
DTW
FSD
GSO
MSO
RDU
TYS

They basically got rid of all non-daily stuff. I doubt it will be back.
 
dbo861
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:02 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
What expansion?

As of JAN they added DEN-CLT and DEN-PHL, but dropped DEN to:

BIS
BZN
CID
CLE
DTW
FSD
GSO
MSO
RDU
TYS

They basically got rid of all non-daily stuff. I doubt it will be back.

Were those permanent drops? Many of them had been seasonal routes.
 
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enilria
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:18 pm

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 2):
Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
What expansion?

As of JAN they added DEN-CLT and DEN-PHL, but dropped DEN to:

BIS
BZN
CID
CLE
DTW
FSD
GSO
MSO
RDU
TYS

They basically got rid of all non-daily stuff. I doubt it will be back.

Were those permanent drops? Many of them had been seasonal routes.

People always ask that question as if there is a way of knowing the answer. There is no date that those flights are for sale in the future, so there is no way to know...but there is definitely no expansion. Given that DEN ski season is significant, a number of those would seem like routes you'd want to run in March if you were going to operate them at all. They dropped a bunch of other stuff from ATL and airports like UST that would seem to be Winter seasonal.

My guess is that the non-daily stuff is gone since that is clearly the direction they are moving in.
 
dbo861
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:38 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
People always ask that question as if there is a way of knowing the answer.

Whoa man, I just ask because you said these routes have been dropped which makes it sound permanent instead of just seasonal reductions. I guess my question was more rhetorical, pointing out a lot of those routes were seasonal (as the frontier website points out when you try to book a flight to any of those cities), so nothing new here.

You always seem to have insider information, so I thought you knew something the rest of us didn't.

DSM-DEN is staying..as of now, so some non-daily flying remains.
 
wntex
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:43 pm

Any guesses on who might start using these gates?

WNTex
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crazytoaster
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:50 pm

Quoting wntex (Reply 5):
Any guesses on who might start using these gates?

WNTex

That was going to be my question. Not sure if DEN gates limited in terms of supply.

But it would be awesome to see VX come in.
DEN homebase. Frequent traveler to IND and RNO.
 
alphascan
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:15 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
Given that DEN ski season is significant, a number of those would seem like routes you'd want to run in March if you were going to operate them at all.

Even when Frontier was myopically DEN-centric, ski season didn't make for positive first quarter results. Strategically, I doubt the schedule planners give ski season a lot of weight when deciding how and where to best deploy the aircraft.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
dc10lover
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:22 pm

I would love to see Southwest grow in DEN.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
HeeseokKoo
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:23 pm

Quoting wntex (Reply 5):
Any guesses on who might start using these gates?

If Frontier vacates central gates of concourse A, wouldn't Delta want to move from C to A? Delta is currently using 5 gates in C, so 6 vacated F9 gates should work. And A is more convenient..

[Edited 2015-10-07 07:24:23]
 
stburke
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:35 pm

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 9):
If Frontier vacates central gates of concourse A, wouldn't Delta want to move from C to A? Delta is currently using 5 gates in C, so 6 vacated F9 gates should work. And A is more convenient..

That'd leave WN with the ability to easily take those gates but seeing as they just got their extension on C, I don't think they're exactly clamoring for more gates at the moment. Not sure how much historical matters would come into play, but DL has been at those gates at C since the airport opened, iirc. Knowing DEN's unquenching thirst for distant growth and "build it and they will come" mentality, I wouldn't be surprised if they hop on the F9 vacancies to convert some other gates in A to more international capable gates.
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727LOVER
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:00 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
The move would save F9 $3MM a year and leave it with 8 gates.

8 gates? !

Wasn't this their main hub? How many gates did they have before WN showed up?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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enilria
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:19 pm

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 4):
Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
People always ask that question as if there is a way of knowing the answer.

Whoa man,

Sorry, just frustrated with the question because people use it to dismiss the fact that they are not for sale in the future as irrelevant because they "could" be for sale again. Anything could happen. Any route any airline drops can be resumed in the future.

Some people say that if the f9.com site says the route is seasonally suspended it means it is coming back, but I've seen little correlation on that. I would assume the ATL and IAH flying that didn't come back will be Summer seasonal, but the non-Denver non-daily stuff seems like in keeping with their recent strategy and many of those routes operated last Winter.

My guess is that if it isn't daily they aren't going to do it any more. Some of that will probably come back as daily, but little I suspect.
 
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enilria
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:21 pm

Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 8):
I would love to see Southwest grow in DEN.

I'm not sure there are that many places left to go in their network. It's hard to see a significant increase. I think UA may increase now that F9 is abandoning being a major player. WN is much easier for UA to deal with.
 
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Frontier14
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:52 pm

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 9):
If Frontier vacates central gates of concourse A, wouldn't Delta want to move from C to A? Delta is currently using 5 gates in C, so 6 vacated F9 gates should work. And A is more convenient..

Frontier is reducing and re-configuring their DEN gates to reflect the previously announced down sizing in flights at their DEN hub. They are now down to 70-80 flights per day which means, all they will need will be the eight gates going forward.

The new gate configuration is projected to be four gates either side of the overhead walkway from the main terminal to concourse A.

The excess gates being given up are at the west end of this concourse. These gates are "clustered" and I doubt Delta would have any interest in them barring a big financial incentive from Denver's airport queen, Kim Day, to move.

The old Frontier is gone. The new ULLC Frontier is what it is and the animals on their tales can honestly say, we are making money !

Frontier 14
 
Rdh3e
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:55 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
Is there recent expansion sustainable with this reduction of gates?
Quoting dbo861 (Reply 2):
Were those permanent drops? Many of them had been seasonal routes.

This summer F9 was down about 40% YoY in Denver.

Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 8):
I would love to see Southwest grow in DEN.
Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
I'm not sure there are that many places left to go in their network. It's hard to see a significant increase. I think UA may increase now that F9 is abandoning being a major player. WN is much easier for UA to deal with.

Looking ahead, both WN and UA are growing significantly in DEN as F9 has been withdrawing.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:55 pm

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 14):


They are now down to 70-80 flights per day which means, all they will need will be the eight gates going forward.

That might be a bit tight during IROPS. I would feel more comfortable with 9-10 gates, but F9 does not consult me on such matters.  
TWA Hotel, Here I come. October, 2019 :airplane:
 
rtalk25
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:59 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
I'm not sure there are that many places left to go in their network. It's hard to see a significant increase. I think UA may increase now that F9 is abandoning being a major player. WN is much easier for UA to deal with.

I agree that there might be few places that WN would really add flights or frequencies. It doesn't want to be on DEN-PVD/MHT when it's on DEN-BOS, for example, and it did downsize DEN-PHL to 2x daily. Maybe it would add DEN-RIC but the local market might be too small. RIC customers lost SFO access when WN deleted ATL-SFO. MDW would be a closer hub, but WN would have to compete with AA and UA for local traffic, might do better having DEN which has more west flights.

With UA no longer being on routes like SFO-JFK, some of it's loyal base might support UA SFO-DEN-LGA more helping that role of DEN.

Thus, I wonder if UA would consider opening DEN-OAK even though it has a hub at SFO. There might be some business it can attain from OAK side with some nominal DEN frequencies. WN has that market all to itself. UA would rather OAK not exist, but it does exist and competes with SFO. Other carriers exist at competing airports to it's hubs when necessary: DL in HPN, AA in FLL, or B6 in PVD. OAK might have a different submarket to SFO, like those examples, than HOU to IAH or MDW or ORD, where UA doesn't need to be in the same city alternate airport.
 
FARmd90
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:04 pm

I think it would be awesome to see B6 jump on these gates. I feel like they could use a good middle hub. But at the same time, I also think they have a lot of plans for the east coast right now and wouldn't have time for Denver.
 
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Frontier14
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:08 pm

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 16):
That might be a bit tight during IROPS. I would feel more comfortable with 9-10 gates, but F9 does not consult me on such matters.

F9 has indicated should they need access to additional gates (ie. IROPS), the now freed up gates could be used at an added cost. This with the availability of the non-bridge gates at the far east end of concourse A (previously used for some of the former E-190 and Q400 parking) would allow sufficient room until such time as normal operations could resume.

Frontier 14
 
simairlinenet
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:12 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 11):
Wasn't this their main hub? How many gates did they have before WN showed up?

My notes show they had 24 gates back in 2010.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:28 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 15):
Looking ahead, both WN and UA are growing significantly in DEN as F9 has been withdrawing.

Neither of them have been growing significantly. UA has, IIRC, shrunk, and traffic has been fairly flat at the airport since 2010.
a.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:36 pm

Will F9 ever be strong in one area again? From 24 gates now down to 8!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Rdh3e
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:36 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
Neither of them have been growing significantly. UA has, IIRC, shrunk, and traffic has been fairly flat at the airport since 2010.

Sure.... Whatever you say, everyone should believe based on the multitude of facts you provided.

2Q15 YoY Seats
UA +5.6%
WN +12.6

3Q15 YoY Seats
UA +1.5%
WN +8.6%

4Q15 YoY Seats
UA +9.1%
WN +7.9%

1Q16 YoY Seats
UA +11.3%
WN +11.9%

[Edited 2015-10-07 09:38:40]
 
HeeseokKoo
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:57 pm

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 14):
The excess gates being given up are at the west end of this concourse. These gates are "clustered" and I doubt Delta would have any interest in them barring a big financial incentive from Denver's airport queen, Kim Day, to move.

Thanks for correcting me. I thought Frontier would be able to (and want to) save more money by giving up central gates but I was wrong.
 
ScottB
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:16 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
Neither of them have been growing significantly. UA has, IIRC, shrunk, and traffic has been fairly flat at the airport since 2010.

WN (including FL) served roughly 5.399 million passengers at DEN through the first seven months of 2010. Through the first seven months of 2015, WN served 9.002 million passengers at DEN. An increase of 3.6 million passengers (or almost exactly two-thirds) would seem to be significant growth -- over 10% annual growth.

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 17):
Thus, I wonder if UA would consider opening DEN-OAK even though it has a hub at SFO.

UA abandoned DEN-OAK several years ago and I doubt they'll return. They won't be able to achieve the revenue premiums needed to support their higher-cost product with WN dominating the OAK market.

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 14):
The new gate configuration is projected to be four gates either side of the overhead walkway from the main terminal to concourse A.

The excess gates being given up are at the west end of this concourse. These gates are "clustered" and I doubt Delta would have any interest in them barring a big financial incentive from Denver's airport queen, Kim Day, to move.

The tube gates at the end of the concourse really are a giant cluster when there are several flights departing at the same time. I suppose this means AA will give A46 back to the City to lease to F9.
 
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Frontier14
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:37 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 25):
I suppose this means AA will give A46 back to the City to lease to F9.

I believe this is the plan. The city was doing some apron cement work in front of A46 so it has been out of use. Spirit has already moved from A44 to A31 allowing F9 to use this gate.

Frontier 14
 
rtalk25
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:45 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 25):
They won't be able to achieve the revenue premiums needed to support their higher-cost product with WN dominating the OAK market.
UA does compete with WN on DEN-BWI directly, even though WN dominates the BWI side with a massive hub. What would be the difference in this case other than UA wanting to steer pax use SFO?

It's interesting that SFO and OAK are farther apart than FLL and MIA, and AA figured it must keep some presence in FLL, but UA figured (in the case of SFO and OAK) that it could just avoid OAK. While OAK might have been perceived as a low yield leisure airport, there seems to be service from DL, AS and other carriers (besides WN) that are likely not just picking up leisure traffic heading to Mexico and Vegas.

Not to get too OAK focused, but it is major missing route for frequent fliers of UA out of DEN, as DEN is a hub in the western US.

[Edited 2015-10-07 10:46:33]
 
ScottB
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:46 pm

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 26):
The city was doing some apron cement work in front of A46 so it has been out of use.

Well, the airport FIDS shows an AA Eagle flight to LAX scheduled to depart from A46 in 15 minutes so it appears to be back in use...
 
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enilria
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:51 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 15):
Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 8):
I would love to see Southwest grow in DEN.
Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
I'm not sure there are that many places left to go in their network. It's hard to see a significant increase. I think UA may increase now that F9 is abandoning being a major player. WN is much easier for UA to deal with.

Looking ahead, both WN and UA are growing significantly in DEN as F9 has been withdrawing.

WN is up about 7% YOY in their most advanced 2016 schedule. I guess that's significant, but it is also nearly the smallest growth rate they have had. The absolute seat growth (not using %) YOY is about 75% less than they were growing at their peak. Point is that growth has slowed a lot. I'm not sure you will see them grow more than a few % after another year or two...unless UA changes strategy.
 
airliner371
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:22 pm

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 9):
If Frontier vacates central gates of concourse A, wouldn't Delta want to move from C to A? Delta is currently using 5 gates in C, so 6 vacated F9 gates should work. And A is more convenient..
Quoting stburke (Reply 10):
That'd leave WN with the ability to easily take those gates but seeing as they just got their extension on C, I don't think they're exactly clamoring for more gates at the moment. Not sure how much historical matters would come into play, but DL has been at those gates at C since the airport opened, iirc. Knowing DEN's unquenching thirst for distant growth and "build it and they will come" mentality, I wouldn't be surprised if they hop on the F9 vacancies to convert some other gates in A to more international capable gates.

I definitely think DL should be moved to concourse A through all of this. It will give Southwest more breathing room an just make operations on C more efficient because they don't have to deal with another airline on C.
 
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United787
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:24 pm

I would love to see a chart showing market share of the three airlines (UA, WN and F9) at DEN for the last 10 years... anyone?
 
jeepyjeep
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:34 pm

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 14):
The excess gates being given up are at the west end of this concourse. These gates are "clustered" and I doubt Delta would have any interest in them barring a big financial incentive from Denver's airport queen, Kim Day, to move.

Good! As a passenger, I hate the clustered gates at the west end of the concourse and if anything, I was expecting those to be gates that Frontier would keep. It's a horrible experience; not enough seating, and extremely difficult to hear the announcements when a few of the gates are boarding at the same time (yes, I've been "gate lice" in those situations, since the announcements are hard to hear!).
 
SWADawg
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:38 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 30):

From what I've heard that is the plan. The City of Denver has been trying to find at least 5 gates together in A Concourse to force Delta to move out of C Concousre. Now that they have found Delta not only 5, but 6 Gates all together on A Concourse, the City will force the issue and move Delta to A Concourse thereby freeing up the remaining 5-6 Gates for WN to takeover on C Concourse. WN has been trying to gain control of all of C Concourse for awhile now. Even with the expansion of C Concourse, WN already has big plans to add more flights once Delta is out of C Concourse.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
dc10lover
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:02 pm

Denver's airport drops in ranking of busiest U.S. airports

http://www.denverpost.com/business/c...drops-ranking-busiest-u-s-airports
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
mcg
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:09 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 33):
Now that they have found Delta not only 5, but 6 Gates all together on A Concourse, the City will force the issue and move Delta to A Concourse

How does the city 'force the issue'? Seems to me that if DL has a lease for 5 gates on the C concourse they would have every right to stay there. I suppose the city could make an offer to DL to move, but those gates on the west side of A are pretty skanky. I also wonder if DL has much interest in helping WN.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:15 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
My guess is that the non-daily stuff is gone since that is clearly the direction they are moving in.

Well - yes but not necessarily. LOL.

Frontier has achieved its remarkable financial turn-around with a static or even declining fleet and that continues for a wee bit longer.

The new A321's are starting to come in - the first goes ion to service at the end of this month - but Frontier is using this coming winter to rebalance the fleet and a bunch are of A319's are leaving in 1Q/16, leaving at a faster rate then the A321's are coming in.

So some things have to give, but the other guiding rule is that less than daily routes are out. That doesn't necessarily mean the routes are cut. TTN-PBI, for example, which was 3 x weekly last season is coming back as daily this season.

Same with DEN. In some cases it wasn't so much than the dropped routes were less than daily but they they relied too heavily on connecting traffic. From the Denver Post article:

http://www.denverpost.com/business/c...r-wants-right-size-at-dia-return-6

"Frontier wants to "right size" at DIA with return of 6 gates

In April 2014, Frontier announced it would become an ultra-low-cost carrier and quickly began decentralizing away from its Denver hub, offering more point-to-point flights instead.

This decreased the number of people who pass through Denver on connecting flights and effectively reduced the airline's presence in Denver by about 43 percent over the past year."


But as the article also says:

"We (Frontier) will grow over 10 percent next year at DIA and will probably add back gates at some point in the future — not reduce."

That growth could be achieved just with frequency on extant routes, but it could also mean the restoration of a couple of routes. DEN-PHL is a restoration.

I think it;s all good fun, because I cannot begin to guess where Frontier will jump next.  
Quoting alphascan (Reply 7):
Even when Frontier was myopically DEN-centric, ski season didn't make for positive first quarter results. Strategically, I doubt the schedule planners give ski season a lot of weight when deciding how and where to best deploy the aircraft.

  

"Ski season" was a rod that Frontier made for its own (financial) back.

mariner

[Edited 2015-10-07 12:28:32]
aeternum nauta
 
Rdh3e
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:39 pm

Quoting mcg (Reply 35):
Seems to me that if DL has a lease for 5 gates on the C concourse they would have every right to stay there.

You're assuming that DL has a longer-term lease. It may be expiring (maybe on a similar timeline to F9s?) and that could by why all this chatter is popping up at once.
 
stburke
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:41 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 31):

I would love to see a chart showing market share of the three airlines (UA, WN and F9) at DEN for the last 10 years... anyone?


 
Give a pilot a bag of gold and they'll complain how heavy it is.
 
mcg
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:48 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 37):

Quoting mcg (Reply 35):
Seems to me that if DL has a lease for 5 gates on the C concourse they would have every right to stay there.

You're assuming that DL has a longer-term lease. It may be expiring (maybe on a similar timeline to F9s?) and that could by why all this chatter is popping up at once.

Sure, that could be it. It would be very interesting to know what the lease says with regard to renewal options.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:58 pm

If F9 plans to grow at DIA in the future then why not keep the gates and sub lease them yourself.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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enilria
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:05 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 36):
Well - yes but not necessarily.

Exactly, there is no way of knowing for sure.

Quoting mariner (Reply 36):
In some cases it wasn't so much than the dropped routes were less than daily but they they relied too heavily on connecting traffic.

Yes and yes. There is clearly a trend away from non-daily markets in their decision-making and markets that could only muster a few flights per week AND heavily connected are 100% doomed.

Quoting mariner (Reply 36):
"We (Frontier) will grow over 10 percent next year at DIA and will probably add back gates at some point in the future — not reduce."

We'll see. I don't think they even know the plan more than a few months in advance. They are very nimble, maybe too nimble. I think the way the legacies has been treating the ULCCs has changed a lot in the last 6 months and that alters route plans because if they start getting matched in XXX then XXX goes from profitable to a disaster pretty quickly.

Quoting mariner (Reply 36):
I cannot begin to guess where Frontier will jump next

...and thus we and probably they have no idea where they will get the best opportunity to expand. It's an evolving situation. Not being price-matched is key. They will chase the markets and airlines where they can achieve that.
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:30 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 41):
We'll see. I don't think they even know the plan more than a few months in advance.

I think they're a bit smarter than that. LOL.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3529
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:40 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 41):
Quoting mariner (Reply 36):
"We (Frontier) will grow over 10 percent next year at DIA and will probably add back gates at some point in the future — not reduce."

We'll see. I don't think they even know the plan more than a few months in advance.

I believe they'll be deploying the A321 into DEN which would make it very easy to grow capacity (230 seats I believe?) while still shrinking destinations and departures.
 
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United787
Posts: 2854
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 12:20 pm

RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:41 pm

Quoting stburke (Reply 38):

Thank you!
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:12 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 40):
If F9 plans to grow at DIA in the future then why not keep the gates and sub lease them yourself.

Why bother? Eight gates can handle all they presently need and allows for some growth - DEN-PHL/CLT e.g. There may be more. Sub-leasing complicates the balance sheet and may lock them into a time frame they don't want.

I very much doubt that Frontier plans to grow back up to 20% share at DEN - at least under Indigo's management - and presently everything is geared to making the balance look beautiful for the eventual IPO.  
Quoting RDH3E (Reply 43):
I believe they'll be deploying the A321 into DEN which would make it very easy to grow capacity (230 seats I believe?) while still shrinking destinations and departures.

Sure, although it looks as if MCO will be the base for most of the A321 operations, at least for the early deliveries. The first A321 routes are MCO-PHL, MCO-CLE, MCO-IAH and MCO-DEN.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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illinoisman
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RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:44 pm

F9 should pay the airport to relocate DL from C to A before they get let out. This will allow for the wanted/needed expansion of WN in C and put two legacy carriers both in A. Then again, DL is growing at DEN so I'm not sure they would want to move from C.
 
lat41
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:23 pm

RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:49 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 17):
I agree that there might be few places that WN would really add flights or frequencies. It doesn't want to be on DEN-PVD/MHT when it's on DEN-BOS

Southwest shut down that popular Providence flight presumably to move it to BOS and now has to have BOS/DEN almost perpetually on the "Click n' Save" bargain page because of the hammering competition at BOS which WN may have underestimated. One wonders what was gained.
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 2110
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:38 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
What expansion?

As of JAN they added DEN-CLT and DEN-PHL, but dropped DEN to:

BIS
BZN
CID
CLE
DTW
FSD
GSO
MSO
RDU
TYS

They basically got rid of all non-daily stuff. I doubt it will be back.

cant speak for the other cities, but here at CID they did this last year and made DEN a seasonal route. At the time they said it performs better during the summer and slows down a lot during winter, so apparently there arent many ski enthusiasts here (not surprising as most people here are off to Florida and Mexico during the winter) Nothing has been in the local press here about the flight being permanently discontinued. Until then I assume it will come back next spring as it did last year.
 
airliner371
Posts: 2404
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

RE: Frontier Wants Give Back 6 Gates At Denver

Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:43 pm

Quoting illinoisman (Reply 46):
F9 should pay the airport to relocate DL from C to A before they get let out.

I don't see why F9 should pay for this. Do explain.

Quoting illinoisman (Reply 46):
Then again, DL is growing at DEN so I'm not sure they would want to move from C.

If DL wants to expand, it would certainly be in their best interest to move to A as they could get additional gates rather than being stuck with 5 on C.

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