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willyknut
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Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:39 pm

Tried to check progress on the restoration project, but could not find a preliminary schedule for a new "first" flight.
Does anybody know when they plan to get her back in the air again?
 
na
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:50 pm

Quoting Setjet (Reply 1):

That link doesnt work.
 
reltney
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:08 pm

I actually met the guy in charge of the restoration at a recent air show. German guy. I won't give out his name as he wants to keep the project quiet. The plane is making progress and is moving forward at a great pace. It will be featured in a magazine real soon. Believe it or not, they are deciding on TWA or Lufthansa livery. I suggested Alaska markings(won't happen) as it was beautiful .

The plane is nearing completion.


Reltney
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willyknut
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:19 pm

Thanks Reltney! Thought the livery was definitely going to be -50s Lufthansa as they are the main sponsor?
Oh well, we'll see. Perhaps a left/right side job with both of them?
 
nikeherc
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:23 pm

DC6 to 777 and most things in between
 
reltney
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:22 pm

I hope it is the 50s luft. Just cannot believe a 1649 will be flying again.
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
na
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:59 pm

Quoting reltney (Reply 3):
Believe it or not, they are deciding on TWA or Lufthansa livery. I suggested Alaska markings(won't happen) as it was beautiful .

TWA livery? I doubt that. There has been quite some effort to reconstruct the late 50s livery, the best livery LH ever had (the original Starliner livery, of which the original paint plans are lost). I really would love to fly with that plane when its finally in Germany. Originally 2012 was planned for first flight, but to achieve LH standards and certification much, much more work had and still has to be done, like recreating parts out of better material than originally at hand.
 
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FlyingJhawk
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:19 pm

Slightly off topic, but I remember my mom telling me stories of flying KLM on a Connie from New York to I presume Amsterdam when she went back to visit her mom and dad in Berlin in the late 50s. I distinctly remember her telling me about seeing flames coming from the engines at night and other passengers being concerned there was some sort of engine fire.

Does anyone have any information on these flights? My mom passed years ago and I never got the chance to ask her more about this as I got older. I'd love to round out my memories of her stories with some other facts.

TIA.
 
na
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:11 pm

Quoting FlyingJHawk (Reply 8):

Flames from the engines and even rather frequent 3 engine landings were quite common on 1950s propliners.
 
MHG
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:12 pm

Quoting FlyingJHawk (Reply 8):

It´s true that flames from the exhaust are normal.

Just watch the following video of a Conny´s take-off : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dExlu488bM4
Flying is not inherently dangerous but it is very unforgiving in case of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.
 
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SQ22
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:24 pm

The plane is property of Deutsche Lufthansa Berlin Stiftung which also owns Ju 52 D-AQUI besides some other planes.

Have alook at their webpage. Last update about Starliner project dates back ti June.

http://www.dlbs.de/en/index.php
 
maxpower1954
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:26 pm

Quoting reltney (Reply 3):
I actually met the guy in charge of the restoration at a recent air show. German guy. I won't give out his name as he wants to keep the project quiet. The plane is making progress and is moving forward at a great pace. It will be featured in a magazine real soon. Believe it or not, they are deciding on TWA or Lufthansa livery. I suggested Alaska markings(won't happen) as it was beautiful .

He wants to keep the project quiet? Lufthansa Tech built a hangar and side building at Auburn, Maine with another 1649 sitting outside for parts. It's not exactly a state secret.

Plus "Air Classics" had a major multi-page article earlier this year on this fantastic project.
 
JAGflyer
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:34 pm

Wow, a Super Constellation with DIGITAL AVIONICS? That's so sweet. Now, if they put in an EFB system I'll really be impressed! Despite not being into classic airliners, the Super Connie is one aircraft I really admire. The triple tail is as distinctive as the A380's two decks or the AN-225's sheer size.
If you flew today, thank a Flight Dispatcher!
 
Connie58
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:57 pm

Flew in the L1049 a bit. The exhaust flame could be quite spectacular even on ground runs.
Started my apprenticeship with QANTAS in '58 when the Connie was the mainline aircraft. Sixteen of them in the fleet as I recall.
Not the most pleasant aircraft to work on. The arrival of the B707-138s certainly changed the style of things.
Look forward to seeing the L1649 fly.
Lets do a three sixty and get out of here !
 
B737900
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:42 pm

I vaguely can remember taking my grandmother to SFO (must have been in the 1950's) so she could fly to LAX to see my aunt. I am certain it was a Connie. SFO to LAX is less than 500 miles. Can anybody comment on this. Would a Connie be used for such a short flight. Regards.
Sounds like a Beaver on floats..........we're saved!!
 
maxpower1954
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:58 pm

Quoting B737900 (Reply 15):
I vaguely can remember taking my grandmother to SFO (must have been in the 1950's) so she could fly to LAX to see my aunt. I am certain it was a Connie. SFO to LAX is less than 500 miles. Can anybody comment on this. Would a Connie be used for such a short flight. Regards.

Yes, I believe TWA flew this route with Constellations. I can't think of any other airline on the West Coast with Connies in that period.
 
superjeff
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:31 am

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 16):
I vaguely can remember taking my grandmother to SFO (must have been in the 1950's) so she could fly to LAX to see my aunt. I am certain it was a Connie. SFO to LAX is less than 500 miles. Can anybody comment on this. Would a Connie be used for such a short flight. Regards.

Yes, I believe TWA flew this route with Constellations. I can't think of any other airline on the West Coast with Connies in that period.

Actually, I don't believe TWA flew SFO-LAX, unless it was a tag on leg to their polar route flights to Paris. Between SFO and LAX during regulation, that route was only Western and United. Additionally, PSA started flying the route as well at some point, as an intra-state carrier. None of the three incumbents flew Constellations between SFO and LAX; Western and United were primarily using DC6B's (and United had some DC7's as well). Not sure what PSA was flying at the time.
 
BravoOne
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:48 am

The later model Connies, think L1049G, and H's along with the L1649A had Power Recovery Turbines (PRTs). These provided a direct coupling to the crankshaft of the 3350 engines. It also provided a spectacular exhaust flame from the engines at higher power settings.

The 1649 was the ultimate piston engine airliner. The DC7C was a great airliner as well and Douglas built a lot more of these than Lockheed produced the 1649A, but for sheer beauty I think the L1649A takes the prize. Got to fly it only once on a ferry flight. I was 1049H qualified and that was all that was need for my role as a RP.
 
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cathay747
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:07 am

What an amazing project. And did you see they are also restoring
to a non-flying-condition a Fw200 Condor??? OMG!

Quoting superjeff (Reply 17):
unless it was a tag on leg to their polar route flights to Paris.

Yes, pretty certain they did this and that's exactly what it was...no local traffic
permitted, only thru-traffic.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
maxpower1954
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:27 am

Quoting superjeff (Reply 17):
Actually, I don't believe TWA flew SFO-LAX, unless it was a tag on leg to their polar route flights to Paris. Between SFO and LAX during regulation, that route was only Western and United. Additionally, PSA started flying the route as well at some point, as an intra-state carrier. None of the three incumbents flew Constellations between SFO and LAX; Western and United were primarily using DC6B's (and United had some DC7's as well). Not sure what PSA was flying at the time.

From timetableimages.com - TWA had a few Constellation flights daily between L.A. and San Francisco throughout the 1950s as continuations of New York and St. Louis service. Here's a sample from 1953.

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/tw53/tw53-01.jpg

PSA was flying DC-4s SFO-LAX in this time frame. The first PSA Electras appeared in 1959.
 
B737900
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:29 am

Quoting cathay747 (Reply 19):
...no local traffic
permitted, only thru-traffic.

What do you mean by 'no local traffic permitted'? Could it have been a fuel stop in SFO and then on to LAX. But I am pretty certain we put my grandmother on a Connie in SFO bound for LAX. I was a pre-teen then and my memory is that we walked her to the stairs. The aircraft towered over me. It's a memory I have kept for decades. Regards.

[Edited 2015-10-08 18:37:04]
Sounds like a Beaver on floats..........we're saved!!
 
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FlyingJhawk
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:32 am

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 20):

I'm having a helluva time making sense of that timetable.
 
maxpower1954
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:45 am

Your grandmother could have flown on a TWA Constellation between San Francisco and Los Angeles in:

1953
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/tw53/tw53-01.jpg

1957
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/tw/tw57/tw57-06.jpg

or in 1959
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/tw59/tw59-06.jpg

These were regular scheduled TWA Constellation flights with no restrictions. One trip a day even stopped in Fresno!

TWA route map from 1953 clearly showing SFO-LAX and SFO-FAT-LAX.
The London to San Francisco L-1649 non-stop didn't start untill 1957.

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/tw5306.htm

[Edited 2015-10-08 20:02:12]

[Edited 2015-10-08 20:03:49]

[Edited 2015-10-08 20:27:15]
 
maxpower1954
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:53 am

Quoting FlyingJHawk (Reply 22):
I'm having a helluva time making sense of that timetable.

Ha Ha I feel for you guy! The airlines used this format based on the railroad system as late as the 1960s.

Basically start at the top and read down, then across. Look at flight 92 - you can see it starts at SFO lands in FAT and goes on to LAX and points east.

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/tw59/tw59-06.jpg

I'm no expert by any means but old timetable reading might make an excellent topic from the likes of Viscount 824!
 
B737900
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:34 am

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 23):
maxpower1954

You've just confirmed some family history. I'll look at all your references tomorrow. Thank you. Regards
Sounds like a Beaver on floats..........we're saved!!
 
maxpower1954
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:47 am

Quoting superjeff (Reply 17):
Actually, I don't believe TWA flew SFO-LAX, unless it was a tag on leg to their polar route flights to Paris. Between SFO and LAX during regulation, that route was only Western and United. Additionally, PSA started flying the route as well at some point, as an intra-state carrier. None of the three incumbents flew Constellations between SFO and LAX; Western and United were primarily using DC6B's (and United had some DC7's as well). Not sure what PSA was flying at the time.

In 1972 TWA had eight jets daily between SFO and LAX
In 1972 Hughes Airwest had six, three were one stop.
 
hailstone
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:08 am

@ Reltney, do not know your source or how close the source is to the actual project. What I have been hearing is that given the current situation LH are in, there are thoughts about slowing the project down (if not shelving it). The fact that there is nothing new on the LH / DLB site since 4 months is not promising either.

Guess that time will tell what's happening. I would love to see the Starliner completed and in the air again
 
giblets
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:31 am

Wow,
didn't realise there was a European connie due to fly soon. I actually wondered around the Connie that is parked up near to MUC, you can go on board and they have some videos running about the aircraft and flying it if anyone is interested. Would be an awesome experience (will you be able to book flights like the KLM C-47/ DC-3?).
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scbriml
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:42 am

Quoting giblets (Reply 27):

Wow, didn't realise there was a European connie due to fly soon.

It won't be the first...

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trijetsonly
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:43 am

Quoting hailstone (Reply 26):

I've heard aswell, that the SuperStar project has been freezed last month.

The reason is, that there are so many conflicts with the pilots union VC and LH shareholders about the shortage of profit.
With that in mind there is no (reasonable) argument for spending hundreds of millions of Euros for building a historic plane with no real future (in terms of making profit).

Who would spend more than 10.000 Euros for a 20h flight through turbulent weather layers at 110dB of sound?

Things might be different with some private investments in the background, like the way RedBull did with the DC-6.
But in a company with some responsibilities to the shareholders it's not that easy.

But I hope that they will continue and finish it one day.
Happy Landings
 
PanHAM
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:57 am

It has been mentioned before that the project is under the umbrella of the LH Berlin foundation which also owns the Ju52 and. Foundations cannot make a Profit but I believe that just the Ju52 is profitableon it's own and the Money can go into future Projects.

Hence, the Starliner Project is partly financed by that and of course by funds coming from the LH Group. It will be an Advertising tool as well. The porject might be frozen but that would mean, at the end of the day, all the monies whoich have been spent already are lost and not only that, they might be taxed as well.

The share holders, BTW, hjave Little to say, they can vote at the annual AGM but rarely ever between These.

The LH Starliner will be pressurized so it can be used on longer cruise flights. You would be amazed how much Money People spend for such pleasure flights or ship's Cruises or Cruises operated by a 320 or 738 in F layout. That foes into the 6 Digits per Person. And a "steam engine" is worth more than a "Diesel 738".

The Project is technically comlicated but I cannot imagine that it won't be finished.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
reltney
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:11 am

Quoting na (Reply 6):
Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 11):

Hey, don't shoot the messenger. This is what he said. I have his business card and he emailed a 2 photos. He asked to keep it quiet and not share till the article comes out.

Lighten up Francis ..


Trijets point was also mentioned but he did not indicate it was frozen, just slowed down till they resolve the issue.
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Lufthansa Starliner Restoration

Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:27 pm

Quoting Jagflyer (Reply 12):
Wow, a Super Constellation with DIGITAL AVIONICS? That's so sweet. Now, if they put in an EFB system I'll really be impressed!

Well LH also has completely new avionics on their Ju.52. Not original, but since it is supposed to fly passengers, and just for the sake of safety, modern avionics are much more user friendly, this was a necessary compromise.

The engines are much more vintage.

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