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simairlinenet
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UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:16 pm

In addition to already-announced Xi'an and just-announced TLV ( UA Starts SFO-TLV With 787-9 (by ilyag Oct 8 2015 in Civil Aviation) ), United will also start flying SFO-AKL on July 1 with the 787-8, upgauging to the 787-9 next October.

http://ir.united.com/phoenix.zhtml?c...3680&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2095522

[Edited 2015-10-08 07:17:37]
 
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LAXintl
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:22 pm

Well that's 3 for 3 of planned new SFO 787 international routes for 2016.
 
a380787
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:23 pm

very logical hub-to-hub route to supplement NZ on this route .... probably the first step towards applying for an eventual JV (to counter the AA/QF one)
 
avi8
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:38 pm

Fantastic how UA is making lemonade out of those 787's. SFO has become such a great international hub these last few years. Now UA needs to connect the dots to some domestic cities such as TPA and maybe launch a couple to Latin America routes (wishful thinking).
 
roseflyer
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:02 pm

I think it is interesting to see UA going back to AKL. I think the fares between the United States and New Zealand are quite high with only HA and NZ flying the route. QF ended AKL-LAX service in 2012, so that left NZ with a bit of a monopoly.
 
S75752
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:03 pm

Quoting avi8 (Reply 3):
Now UA needs to connect the dots to some domestic cities such as TPA and maybe launch a couple to Latin America routes (wishful thinking).

I think we may see that in due time, TPA is just a question of when. Latin America is probably boosted by CM starting SFO, but I'd be willing to bet on Azul taking advantage of their Interline and being the one to reach up to SFO.
 
a380787
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:05 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 4):

I think it is interesting to see UA going back to AKL. I think the fares between the United States and New Zealand are quite high with only HA and NZ flying the route. QF ended AKL-LAX service in 2012, so that left NZ with a bit of a monopoly.

Not only that, but it was 2-fer whammy - virtually zero premium award seats, and 3-4-3 on NZ's 777

The 787 isn't all that wider per seat, but at least this route is an improvement on both those deficiencies.
 
BlatantEcho
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:36 pm

That's great, but, what we really need is a non-star alliance partner flying LAX-AKL.

I'm trying to get to Auckland in January from PDX with Alaska partners.
It's either PDX-LAX-NAN-AKL (done that) or PDX-LAX-SYD-AKL.

I will likely end up booking PDX-SFO-AKL on Air Newzealand just to save time, but this add doesn't really help except to add capacity to an already existing route.

Cool, no doubt, but, not super helpful for any travellers who already couldn't fly SFO-AKL on star
 
a380787
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:42 pm

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 7):
That's great, but, what we really need is a non-star alliance partner flying LAX-AKL.
Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 7):
Cool, no doubt, but, not super helpful for any travellers who already couldn't fly SFO-AKL on star

Don't worry, we've been told repeatedly on this forum that AA LAX-AKL is "imminent" and "right around the corner".
 
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shengzhurou
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:46 pm

I would guess a lot of cargo on that route besides passengers since it will be flying on a 787-9, and this probably means that we won't see the 2nd seasonal NZ flt to SFO

[Edited 2015-10-08 08:48:27]
 
jayunited
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:46 pm

I'm glad to see UA adding more international routes out of SFO. While UA takes a lot heat on a.netters for their LAX operations I think UA is more than making up for it by strengthening their position at SFO. Adding 3 long haul international flights in 2016 congratulations to SFO.

Quoting avi8 (Reply 3):
Now UA needs to connect the dots to some domestic cities such as TPA and maybe launch a couple to Latin America routes (wishful thinking).

I think in time what you have suggested will happen. I think as more narrow bodies are either (A) freed up by moving p.s. to EWR and reconfiguring the international 77A's to domestic or (B) as UA acquires more used narrow bodies SFO will see some nonstop domestic flights that were eliminated years back reinstated and new destinations added. This way more customers will have access to one stop connections instead of two stop connections just to be able to get to SFO.

There isn't much UA can do at LAX that wouldn't turn into a blood bath with AA and DL however SFO is completely different and I think in time SFO will mirror UA's operations at EWR both domestically and internationally especially as more narrow bodies are freed up or acquired.
 
modesto2
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:00 pm

3 new long-hauls to 3 different continents. As a proud SFO native, I'm not complaining. Glad the 787 is opening doors as expected.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:01 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 10):
however SFO is completely different and I think in time SFO will mirror UA's operations at EWR both domestically and internationally especially as more narrow bodies are freed up or acquired.

Keep in mind UA is gate constrained at SFO. Even with boarding area E opening, gates are at a premium.

Only way to really grow the domestic narrowbody flying at SFO is to operate flights during the shoulder periods, but this kills the whole point of having connectivity opportunities.
 
roseflyer
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:46 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
Keep in mind UA is gate constrained at SFO. Even with boarding area E opening, gates are at a premium.

Only way to really grow the domestic narrowbody flying at SFO is to operate flights during the shoulder periods, but this kills the whole point of having connectivity opportunities.

United has been gate constrained at SFO for a while. These additional flights are all in the evening with early morning arrivals so that they won't impact limited gate space during the day for international planes. There still are adequate connections during these times too. It's too bad that domestic flying cant really grow much.
 
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United787
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:11 pm

Congrats to UA, SFO & AKL! I flew LAX-AKL-MEL on UA in 1993...nice to see them now flying both non-stop...
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:20 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 10):
I'm glad to see UA adding more international routes out of SFO. While UA takes a lot heat on a.netters for their LAX operations I think UA is more than making up for it by strengthening their position at SFO.

They only take heat if you are emotional about it.

As someone that has no skin in the LAX/SFO game, it is very obvious that UA will grow SFO and continue to shrink LAX. During the next downturn (there is always one in aviation) LAX will be closed and will have high frequency service to the hubs with partner service from the Star international carriers there. That's where the trend line points.

The best harbinger of UA at LAX will be to look at their regional operations that provide feed over the next 5 years. They will be the first to go.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:20 pm

Now if they can just start IAH-AKL...   
 
a380787
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:32 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 16):
Now if they can just start IAH-AKL...   

=) good thing NZ has already announced AKL-IAH so that gap is (somewhat) closed
 
a380787
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:38 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):

As someone that has no skin in the LAX/SFO game, it is very obvious that UA will grow SFO and continue to shrink LAX. During the next downturn (there is always one in aviation) LAX will be closed and will have high frequency service to the hubs with partner service from the Star international carriers there. That's where the trend line points.

The best harbinger of UA at LAX will be to look at their regional operations that provide feed over the next 5 years. They will be the first to go.

Only took 15 posts before the Negative Neds appear to pour ice water on such a game changing announcement. Right on queue.

And coming from the airline that (1) doesn't fly to NZ, and (2) has no local NZ partner.
 
zkncj
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:56 pm

Quoting shengzhurou (Reply 9):
I would guess a lot of cargo on that route besides passengers since it will be flying on a 787-9, and this probably means that we won't see the 2nd seasonal NZ flt to SFO

Depends on how friendly NZ wants to be with UA, they do have an bit of past history. I'd say NZ will keep its 7-10x weekly on AKL-SFO, they have built an massive market on this route on the last 10 years, and have been able to fill it.

UA wouldn't be some peoples first choice on the route, to some people in Aussie/New Zealand UA has an pretty bad wrap.


It will be interesting to see NZ's response, maybe SYD-SFO
 
a380787
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:07 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 19):
Depends on how friendly NZ wants to be with UA, they do have an bit of past history.

I think they're way past that old bad blood. NZ's new AKL-IAH and UA's new AKL-SFO are both launched in cooperation, not in retaliation.
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:08 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 19):
It will be interesting to see NZ's response, maybe SYD-SFO

With Qantas coming back almost daily to SFO in December with a 747 and UA's 777 service, would there be enough traffic to sustain another flight (presumably 787 or 777) to Sydney? I'd be skeptical.

Glad to see UA back on the game to AKL.

[Edited 2015-10-08 11:15:47]
 
a380787
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:12 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 21):

With Qantas coming back daily to SFO in December with a 747 and UA's daily 777 service, would there be enough traffic to sustain another flight (presumably 787 or 777) to Sydney? I'd be skeptical.

Just being pedantic here, QF's new SYD-SFO relaunch is 6x weekly not daily.
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:14 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 22):
Just being pedantic here, QF's new SYD-SFO relaunch is 6x weekly not daily.

Yes, caught that myself and corrected. While starting 6x per week in Feb, that is still a lot of seats to fill with another airline on the route.
 
910A
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:31 pm

Is SFO immigration/customs open at 6:40am?

[Edited 2015-10-08 11:33:03]
 
USAirALB
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:42 pm

I am kind of surprised they didn't launch LAX-AKL instead. That said, congrats to AKL and SFO!
 
kiwiandrew

RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:55 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 19):
Depends on how friendly NZ wants to be with UA, they do have an bit of past history.

I often see people say this, but they never provide any evidence. I am just curious what specifically you are referring to.
 
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yeogeo
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:03 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 25):
I am kind of surprised they didn't launch LAX-AKL instead. That said, congrats to AKL and SFO!

Why on earth would you be (kind of) surprised?
AKL is essentially equidistant from either airport, so it comes down to which is the stronger hub, no?

yeo
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:17 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 19):
Depends on how friendly NZ wants to be with UA, they do have an bit of past history. I'd say NZ will keep its 7-10x weekly on AKL-SFO, they have built an massive market on this route on the last 10 years, and have been able to fill it.

UA wouldn't be some peoples first choice on the route, to some people in Aussie/New Zealand UA has an pretty bad wrap.


It will be interesting to see NZ's response, maybe SYD-SFO

NZ have already said they are teaming up with UA on this code-sharing etc and will be supporting it.
NZ currently does more than daily SFO so I'd imagine that they will eventually drop the 2nd service as UA builds theirs up to daily. IAH will of course grow to daily and NZ might look to bump up LAX to close to 3x daily direct (plus the P.I. flights).

Overall good news. AA will be thinking twice about starting up AKL now.

HA has been rumoured to be looking to bump up their AKL frequency to 4 or 5x weekly.
 
MAH4546
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:18 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 8):
Don't worry, we've been told repeatedly on this forum that AA LAX-AKL is "imminent" and "right around the corner".

AA will be announcing two significant new long-haul routes in the near future.
 
a380787
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:20 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 29):

AA will be announcing two significant new long-haul routes in the near future.

Like what? LAX-PEK and LAX-AKL ? "Near" as in we're hear about it before end of year, or "near" as in next 2 years ?
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:20 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 29):
AA will be announcing two significant new long-haul routes in the near future.

Maybe they'll announce a start date for the HND flight they're supposed to be operating already...   
 
kiwiandrew

RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:26 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 29):
AA will be announcing two significant new long-haul routes in the near future.

Fingers crossed that one of them is AKL. ( I can't imagine you would post it in this thread if it wasn't, what would be the relevance otherwise )

While I would never actually fly AA unless their fares were absurdly cheaper than I could get on NZ their presence on the NZ-US route would be likely to shake things up a lot more than UA's entrance. If it leads to more competitive pricing by NZ it would be a major win for consumers .
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:01 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 29):

DFW-AKL/MEL? MIA-SYD? MIA-LOS/CPT/JNB?
 
zkncj
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:32 pm

With UA arriving into Auckland at 0655, does that mean UA passengers are going to have the tropical stairs experience in Auckland? Early morning are pretty busy in Auckland
 
Motorhussy
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:41 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 6):
Not only that, but it was 2-fer whammy - virtually zero premium award seats, and 3-4-3 on NZ's 777

The 787 isn't all that wider per seat, but at least this route is an improvement on both those deficiencies.

A 9-abreast 787 is comparable to a 10-abreast 777, and NZ's seats are well kitted out.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 33):
DFW-AKL/MEL? MIA-SYD? MIA-LOS/CPT/JNB?

LAX-AKL would be my bet.

Back to UA and SFO-AKL, I hope that UA are going to lift their game in terms of cabin service if they're to tempt passengers away from NZ with anything other than price. The last time I flew UA trans-Pac, their drinks service was not complementary and meals were sub-par, worst was the condition of the 744 cabin (obviously this last point has been rectified with the 788/9's starting the route). Cabin crew were friendly and courteous though too  
 
S75752
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:30 pm

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 35):
The last time I flew UA trans-Pac, their drinks service was not complementary and meals were sub-par, worst was the condition of the 744 cabin (obviously this last point has been rectified with the 788/9's starting the route).

The 787 cabin is pretty much on par (since everyone except 1 flies 9 Abreast anyways), but what is currently lacking is the meal service, particularly with the small meal size and the unbelievable Buy on board replacing the midflight snack (rather than being in addition).

However, the inflight WiFi is definitely a plus. If they can just fix their economy catering problems, then it'll be actually a pretty sweet product.
 
zkncj
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:35 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 36):
The 787 cabin is pretty much on par (since everyone except 1 flies 9 Abreast anyways), but what is currently lacking is the meal service, particularly with the small meal size and the unbelievable Buy on board replacing the midflight snack (rather than being in addition).

The not serving free wine/beer will be the main killer to there catering, NZ is know to be pretty lose with hand wine out
 
EddieDude
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:59 pm

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 35):
Back to UA and SFO-AKL, I hope that UA are going to lift their game in terms of cabin service if they're to tempt passengers away from NZ with anything other than price. The last time I flew UA trans-Pac, their drinks service was not complementary and meals were sub-par, worst was the condition of the 744 cabin (obviously this last point has been rectified with the 788/9's starting the route). Cabin crew were friendly and courteous though too

I do not have any experience with UA long-haul, although I have heard a lot of horror stories. I suppose one could say their service is hit or miss, but again, it is only based on hearsay. I did want to share, however, a brilliant trip report that I just read re: UA's long-haul (trans-Pacific) J-class service on the 744. It is worth reading! Hopefully under its new management UA can become an outstanding carrier both in terms of hard and soft product.
 
S75752
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:01 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 37):

The not serving free wine/beer will be the main killer to there catering, NZ is know to be pretty lose with hand wine out

I think they changed that with the latest meal update, which also removed the midflight snack.
 
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mercure1
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:06 pm

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 27):
Why on earth would you be (kind of) surprised?
AKL is essentially equidistant from either airport, so it comes down to which is the stronger hub, no?

LAX is the much larger local demand market not only to AKL but entire South Pac.
Its also UAs historic gateway to S. Pac sans single SFO-SYD service.

But as press release mentions route is in cooperation with NZ, to clearly they spoke about benefits of one versus the other. This probably allow NZ to reduce its own SFO service and take aircraft to serve other markets.
 
unityofsaints
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:55 pm

Great addition. Two things which make this flight a little less suitable for getting from SYD to the U.S.:

- 787 9-abreast (yuck!)
- 6:55 a.m. arrival in AKL on the return makes it unsuitable for getting into work the same day

Still, it could be a cheap plan B when the nonstops out of SYD become too expensive close to day of departure.
 
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yeogeo
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:57 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 40):
LAX is the much larger local demand market not only to AKL but entire South Pac.
Its also UAs historic gateway to S. Pac sans single SFO-SYD service.

I fail to see how either point is relevant to UA.

I suspect that any Pacific route you could name, north or south, has larger local demand from LAX vs SFO, yet there they are, flying them from SFO, almost without exception (MEL being the only one exclusive to LAX, I believe).

As for history, it doesn't pay the bills  

yeo
 
zkncj
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:22 am

Quoting unityofsaints (Reply 41):
- 6:55 a.m. arrival in AKL on the return makes it unsuitable for getting into work the same day

Still, it could be a cheap plan B when the nonstops out of SYD become too expensive close to day of departure.

From an 6:55am arrival into AKL you should be able to connect to NZ7901 (operated by VA) which departs at 8am, gets you into SYD just after 9am.

Still allows pretty good Connections to other parts of Australia, e.g:

MEL - 0855 NZ123 77W
BNE - 0930 NZ135 77W
OOL - 0820 NZ937 320 (Not Sat/Sun as hour earlier)
MCY - 0935 NZ969 320 (Tue,Fri,Sun Seasonal)
CNS - 0915 NZ755 320 (Sat,Thu)
ADL - 0800 NZ791 320
 
alfa164
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:41 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 18):
Only took 15 posts before the Negative Neds appear to pour ice water on such a game changing announcement.

I am not sure that adding a new flight to a route already served more than daily - to a destination they had already once served and then abandoned - is a "game changer"... nor am I sure than anyone deserves to be called "Negative Ned" for pointing out an obvious expectation. On the other hand, I am not surprised that it took only 18 posts for someone to get defensive about UA's obvious retrenchment in LAX.

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 31):
Maybe they'll announce a start date for the HND flight they're supposed to be operating already...

  
 
a380787
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:50 am

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 44):

AKL was once served from LAX, and that was way back in an era when MEL wasn't nonstop and no NZ alliance partner, and when 744 actually ruled the skies.

His assertion is that a CVG/MEM type of destruction will happen to LAX, which isn't the expectation who is logical.
 
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PA110
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:36 am

Good Lord! Who in their right mind would suffer UA's abysmal service SFO-AKL when you can fly NZ instead?
 
DiscoverCSG
Posts: 602
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:01 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 46):
Good Lord! Who in their right mind would suffer UA's abysmal service SFO-AKL when you can fly NZ instead?

A UA elite member with the ability to upgrade from Y to J on UA metal?

I'd sure rather fly UA J than NZ Y. It might not be SQ, but it is a flat bed.
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:14 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 46):

Good Lord! Who in their right mind would suffer UA's abysmal service SFO-AKL when you can fly NZ instead?

Good point. I guess the space plus seats would make it worthwhile for many and UA is likely to be slightly cheaper than NZ.
 
zkncj
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RE: UA To Start SFO-AKL

Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:42 am



Hopefully if UA decides that they want to be able to get online bookings from New Zealand, they decide to give there New Zealand website an makeover.

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