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mattnrsa
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Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:07 pm

Back in June when AA announced the new flight to SYD and the JV with QF, they also advised that AKL was on their radar. Four months later UA announces that they will be the first US airline to (re)start service to New Zealand.

Would UA have started service to AKL if AA hadn't publicly revealed that they were also looking into it? Is this a defensive move to try to make it harder for non-Star carriers to begin additional service? It seems like the UA route announcement would catch AA off guard (it appeared to be unexpected by many here) and could change the competive landscape in what is likely not a very big market, relatively speaking.

Not specific to this situation, is it common for airlines to advise they are looking at new markets months before actually announcing the route or a schedule? It seems like airlines would want to keep plans like these close to the vest to avoid having rivals beat them to the punch.
 
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mariner
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:19 pm

Quoting mattnrsa (Thread starter):
Is this a defensive move to try to make it harder for non-Star carriers to begin additional service?

It surely makes it that bit tougher for American/Qantas:

http://www.theage.com.au/business/av...tas-challenge-20151008-gk4an6.html

"Air NZ, United team to fend off Qantas"

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...-where-qantas-will-first-fly-787s/

"Air NZ might have just decided where Qantas will fly its first 787s"

I was always surprised that American/Qantas gave the competition so much notice without actually announcing the route.

mariner
 
mattnrsa
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:28 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 1):
I was always surprised that American/Qantas gave the competition so much notice without actually announcing the route.

That's what I thought too. I know UA had announced, in a more general sense, that they were interested in routes to interior China without making actual service announcements, but they didn't mention specific cities and they probably felt secure knowing DL and AA weren't in a strong position to beat UA into many (any?) interior China markets.
 
Bluebird191
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:32 pm

Quoting mattnrsa (Thread starter):
Four months later UA announces that they will be the first US airline to (re)start service to New Zealand.

And the maps at UA have Hawaii as a separate country? HA is a US based airline and they fly to AKL with their A332's
 
Rdh3e
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:40 pm

Quoting Bluebird191 (Reply 3):
And the maps at UA have Hawaii as a separate country? HA is a US based airline and they fly to AKL with their A332's

Those are the poster's words, not UA's. The press release says simply:

San Francisco-Auckland

United's three-times weekly service to Auckland (AKL), New Zealand's largest city and main transportation hub to other points throughout the country, will launch July 1, 2016, with 787-8 aircraft. The schedule will expand to daily flights operating with 787-9 aircraft on Oct. 28, 2016, in time for the peak-winter travel season.

The Auckland flights will operate in partnership with United's Star Alliance partner Air New Zealand.

Flight From To Departure Arrival
UA917 SFO AKL 10:45 p.m. 6:55 a.m. two days later
UA916 AKL SFO 1:20 p.m. 6:40 a.m. the same day

Flight times will be 13 hours, 10 minutes westbound and 12 hours, 20 minutes eastbound.
 
strfyr51
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:44 pm

Quoting Bluebird191 (Reply 3):
And the maps at UA have Hawaii as a separate country? HA is a US based airline and they fly to AKL with their A332's

Is HA flying from SFO or LAX to AKL? I didn't think do. Hawaiian just Started flying to AKL.
United is the first Major to RE-Start Service to AKL. I think you're getting up in arms over nothing
UAL already cut the path HA is flying. And I'm sure HA will do a fine job as well.
 
IADCA
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:44 pm

Quoting Bluebird191 (Reply 3):
And the maps at UA have Hawaii as a separate country? HA is a US based airline and they fly to AKL with their A332's

The mistake was the poster's, not UA's.

Quoting mattnrsa (Thread starter):
Would UA have started service to AKL if AA hadn't publicly revealed that they were also looking into it?

Hard to know, but I imagine that if what they were really trying to do was foreclose AA, they would have started the flight from LAX, not SFO.
 
mattnrsa
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:27 am

Yes, I was thinking of the contiguous US,forgot about Hawai! Are there other examples of airlines talking about starting new service without actually announcing it? The UA/AA dynamic to AKL got me thinking about it, but there may be other examples of this.
 
HALFA
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:32 am

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 5):
Hawaiian just Started flying to AKL.

Hawaiian is a US based carrier. They didn't "just start flying to AKL". They've been flying the route for 2 1/2 years. This is also not HA's first entry into the New Zealand market. HA flew scheduled service flights to AKL back in the 80's using DC-8 aircraft. I should know, I was a crew member on the inaugural flight.  


Aloha,
HALFA
 
mattnrsa
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:52 am

Yes, HA has a successful service to AKL but the thread seems to be veering off-topic!  

Are there other examples of airlines giving rivals notice of specific new routes, allowing them to launch their own service as a competive response before the first route begins?
 
zkncj
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:03 am

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 5):
s HA flying from SFO or LAX to AKL? I didn't think do. Hawaiian just Started flying to AKL.

Hawaiian actively markets AKL-LAX/SFO fares in the Auckland market, they have an large campaign about there essay connections to 11 US Cities.


AA probably would have found AKL pretty hard, if anything NZ would of been able to hand its low yielding passengers to AA. Bare in mind that AA's domestic feed would be from JQ, which has an limited network and low yielding passengers.

We're as NZ is able to charge an premium, and doesn't just rely on the local market to fill seats. They take feed from PER,ADL,MEL,SYD,OOL,BNE,MCY,CNS and provide essay connections in Auckland.
 
qf002
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:12 am

There is still a significant opportunity for a second carrier to open AKL-LAX regardless of whatever happens with SFO (or IAH for that matter).

QF's other recent moves (bold reentry into SYD-SFO and growth of JQ's NZ operations) quite clearly show that they aren't afraid of taking on either UA or NZ so I don't see why AKL-LAX would be any different.
 
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:40 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 10):

Well I guess we will probably find out how hard it is for AA, I think with the right aircraft and schedule AA can make a good go of the larger LAX market.

It was mooted earlier this year that both AA and UA were looking at AKL service, UA surprised me a little, and the only way they would do it is with NZ given that they have codeshared for 20 years.
 
Gasman
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:59 am

I think if QF/AA have any sense, they'll get the route up and running ASAP. Do they have spare frames to enable this?
 
mattnrsa
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:41 am

With AA's build up at LAX, it seems like they could make the route work with a 787-8. Though four airlines does sound like a lot (AA/UA/HA/NZ), the power of the QF/AA joint venture should make them a strong competitor.

Regarding passenger mix on the flights, how does the HA customer O&D compare to what will be found on UA/NZ? How many of HA's passengers terminate/originate in Hawaii versus connecting onward?

Has there been anything official on a JV between UA/NZ?
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:08 pm

AA in 2015 is not the same AA as in 2008.

They are less risk-averse to launching new routes, even if a competitor beat them to the punch by arriving in the same region.

American and QANTAS are also still several steps ahead of UA and NZ in terms of formulating a JV and using that to leverage their position between North America and Oceania. QF also being a stronger carrier than in recent years helps a ton.

I would be very surprised if AA retreats from its intended plans to fly to AKL just because of UA.
 
tortugamon
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:42 pm

Quoting mattnrsa (Thread starter):
Would UA have started service to AKL if AA hadn't publicly revealed that they were also looking into it?

This seems backwards to me. Why would UA want to operate the route if they knew AA was going to operate it? That would be a reason against operating it in my mind. Also, we don't know if AA knew that UA was thinking about this route and may have suggested they were going to start the route as a way to defer UA as there now will be even more capacity on the route which will reduce profitability.

tortugamon
 
zkncj
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:05 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 16):
This seems backwards to me. Why would UA want to operate the route if they knew AA was going to operate it? That would be a reason against operating it in my mind. Also, we don't know if AA knew that UA was thinking about this route and may have suggested they were going to start the route as a way to defer UA as there now will be even more capacity on the route which will reduce profitability.

AA would have limited domestic feed, we're as UA would have domestic feed from NZ which has an much larger New Zealand network than Jetstar.

Also Jetstar's passengers are typically low-yeilding, so in away AA would do NZ an favour by taking some of the low yeilding sale passengers off them.
 
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:20 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 17):

While domestic feed is important there are only 2 main airlines on NZ domestic, so I'd imagine the likes of CZ, HA etc who NZ don't codeshare with might interline with either NZ or JQ. Are JQ pax really lower yielding than NZ?

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 16):

It was known that UA and and AA were looking at AKL, like I said earlier, UA were only going to do it with NZ not against given their relationship, maybe they did it to preempt AA? And try make it harder for them?
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:57 pm

I'd imagine that BA would also look at getting its code on LAX-AKL once that flight starts, a bit like when QF were flying the route in the 1990s and BA advertised the through LHR-LAX-AKL flight in their timetables, with the LAX-AKL flight being shown as BA998/999 operated by QF in the BA printed timetables.
 
tortugamon
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:09 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 17):
AA would have limited domestic feed, we're as UA would have domestic feed from NZ which has an much larger New Zealand network than Jetstar.

Agreed it would be less but I do think there will be some QF passengers who chose to stop in AKL over non-stop from SYD, MEL etc. Obviously lower yielding traffic but I do think there will be some Aussie passengers who choose this routing as well.

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 18):
It was known that UA and and AA were looking at AKL, like I said earlier, UA were only going to do it with NZ not against given their relationship, maybe they did it to preempt AA? And try make it harder for them?

Sure, absolutely. I think the point is that AA indicating they were going to operate the route doesn't really impact UA's decision to launch as well and if anything it reduces UA's interest not adds to it like the OP implied. I could see them pushing ahead earlier in order to preempt AA as you indicate but I don't see it making the decision for them.

tortugamon
 
uberflieger
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:20 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 20):
AA indicating they were going to operate the route doesn't really impact UA's decision

  
I don't believe American gave away a secret announcing its intention to fly to AKL, just like it wasn't surprising United entering the LAX market again. Both have partners & new generation airplanes with the economics to make these routes viable.

Quoting zkncj (Reply 10):
low yielding passengers(JQ)

JQ New Zealand is profitable according to the latest Qantas earnings report.

Now, what about Delta?   
 
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mariner
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:19 pm

Quoting irishayes (Reply 15):
They are less risk-averse to launching new routes, even if a competitor beat them to the punch by arriving in the same region.

They may be, but in the case of LAX-AKL they were certainly cautious - the most they said was that it was "on our radar":

http://www.ausbt.com.au/american-air...plans-auckland-los-angeles-flights

"American Airlines plans Auckland-Los Angeles flights

It's certainly on our radar and we'll continue to explore the route to see when it makes sense financially," an American Airlines spokesman said."


I guess it didn't make sense financially then, and the United decision adds to that pressure, if only a tad. I think it may well happen, but generally, I think folks got a wee bit over-excited about it, as being more imminent than it may actually be.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 20):
Agreed it would be less but I do think there will be some QF passengers who chose to stop in AKL over non-stop from SYD, MEL etc. Obviously lower yielding traffic but I do think there will be some Aussie passengers who choose this routing as well.

Some perhaps, depending on the timing and the price. I prefer one-stops to non-stops, but usually I want the stop to be further into the flight.

But one of the problems (among several) with the Qantas AKL-LAX - which was dropped in 2012 - was that is was heavily used for FF redemptions, both by Qantas, from Australia, and American, from the US.

This isn't really about New Zealand, which Qantas now seems to think of as the seventh Australian state. It is more about connections from LAX at AKL to various parts of Australia.

Although - oddly - NZ, or at least AKL, may be a beneficiary from it in another sense. Air NZ is committed to the idea of AKL as a South Pacific hub, and this may add to that, as the United decision does.

mariner
 
uberflieger
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:43 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 22):
It is more about connections from LAX at AKL to various parts of Australia

  
It's about adding Australian capacity, but prudently. Both QF & AA are now in a position to do so, and have to in order to defend market share.
 
NAV30
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:02 pm

I suspect that, with the advent of the B789, we are now seeing the start of the full 'flowering' of the B787 'business plan.'

Boeing saw the opportunity to create a 'midsize' that could at least equal the four-holers then in service in terms of range, while beating them in terms of fuel consumption per passenger. That now appears to be happening.

I strongly suspect that most airlines have already 'taken the hint' and are planning on phasing out their 'four-holers' as quickly as they can acquire 'long-range twins' to replace them. Snag is, though, that only the B787 really qualifies up to now; The A350 is only just entering service, and the B778/9Xs are four years or more from arriving. It'll be a while before the 'switch to twins' gathers full pace.

http://www.traveller.com.au/qantas-b...-has-planned-for-new-planes-gj3tdb

[Edited 2015-10-11 05:09:40]
 
zkncj
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:33 pm

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 21):
JQ New Zealand is profitable according to the latest Qantas earnings report.

Only just profitable and it took them 9 years to make an profit, bare in mind JQNZ has no assets (these are underwritten by JQAU/QF).

Jetstar won't be making much of an profit this year, they have constantly been selling sale fares between $9-29 (Inc tax).
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:30 pm

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 24):
I suspect that, with the advent of the B789, we are now seeing the start of the full 'flowering' of the B787 'business plan.'

Boeing saw the opportunity to create a 'midsize' that could at least equal the four-holers then in service in terms of range, while beating them in terms of fuel consumption per passenger. That now appears to be happening.

I believe there is another shoe still to drop , that is a higher MTOW version of the 789 and 78X that will allow for the present unused tankerage to be utilized. Appropriate MLG for this purpose would add maybe 3t to the MEW. As an example a 789 with a 41.5t payload is limited to ~ 14hrs at current MTOW. Fuel tanked would be about 84.2t of the ~ 101t capacity. Quite a bit of unused tank space to support an increase in MTOW.
 
coolian2
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:36 pm

Honestly AA passengers would have no issues with Jetstar on a maximum two hour flight.
 
dc10s2hnl
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:57 pm

Quoting irishayes (Reply 15):
American and QANTAS are also still several steps ahead of UA and NZ in terms of formulating a JV and using that to leverage their position between North America and Oceania. QF also being a stronger carrier than in recent years helps a ton.

I would be very surprised if AA retreats from its intended plans to fly to AKL just because of UA.

  

Watch, this UA flight will just end up replacing a NZ flight, freeing up the 77W for additional frequency to IAH or EZE if warranted... SFO capacity won't increase and airfares won't decrease. I don't see how this scenario impacts on the AA flight besides making a point.

The QF/JQ network ex-AKL to both Aus and NZ does indeed put this AA flight in a quite strong position if timed right for connections on both ends; a codeshare from BA chucked on as suggested above helps matters further.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:27 am

Quoting dc10s2hnl (Reply 28):
a codeshare from BA chucked on as suggested above helps matters further.

Maybe NZ will work a deal with BA at SFO and LAX and gazump any BA/AA arrangement.   
 
uberflieger
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:04 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 25):
(JQ) sale fares between $9-29

I know too little about JQNZ's financials, other than it is reported to finally have turned profitable in the most recent earnings period.
What I do know though is airline sales are also a form of marketing and not a true reflection of the average fare paid. Maybe QF Australian connections are higher yielding? I should think TPAC LAX connections would be, bolstering JQ's New Zealand network?

Quoting zkncj (Reply 17):
AA would do NZ an favour by taking some of the low yeilding (JQ) sale passengers

- NZ dominates Auckland O&D, but I should think AA has the upper hand in Los Angeles
- while NZ clearly has the stronger New Zealand network to feed its TPAC flight, timed right the JQ network is really all AA requires to be competitive.
- AA most definitely has the upper hand for USA connections at LAX
- AA / QF most definitely have the upper hand for Australian connections at AKL

Ironically United isn't just a partner, but also a direct competitor to NZ until they deepen their JV and add revenue sharing. So far both airlines haven't been able to agree on a formula yet, although American entering the market may help things along.  
 
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gdg9
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:53 am

If AA starts AKL, do we expect it from LAX or DFW?
 
HPRamper
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:56 am

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 31):
If AA starts AKL, do we expect it from LAX or DFW?

It's going to be LAX.
 
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gdg9
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:58 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 32):
It's going to be LAX.

OK. Makes more sense to be sure, was just curious if we might get lucky with a new route here!
 
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mariner
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:39 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 32):
It's going to be LAX.

Is it?

While it seems obvious, have American nor Qantas actually said so? The fundamental article doesn't mention LAX-AKL, only LAX-SYD:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11462743

"Air deal opens up possibility of new NZ-US flights

In a deal announced this morning the US carrier will fly from Los Angeles to Sydney for the first time and Qantas will return to San Francisco.

In a statement the airlines said ''the enhanced relationship also provides opportunities for future growth into trans-Pacific markets not currently served by either airline, such as New Zealand.

''This expansion represents a natural evolution of the existing alliance between Qantas and American, providing the airlines with a platform for further growth, closer commercial ties, and an even more seamless customer experience on routes between North America and Australia/New Zealand.'''


I don't want to rain on any a.netter's parade, but the most American has said is that it is certainly "on our radar."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11462743

"It's certainly on our radar and we'll continue to explore the route to see when it makes sense financially," an American Airlines spokesman said."

Journalists have speculated that it would be LAX-AKL and one even put a date on it - it could happen in 2016.

I'm sure it could, but it wouldn't be the first time journalists have speculated wrongly. I'll wait until the airline involved gives me hard news.

mariner

[Edited 2015-10-11 20:40:20]
 
MAH4546
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:18 am

AA AKL announcement looking like it's going to be this week. Wonder if UA pushed them to announce sooner.
 
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NZ107
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:38 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 35):

Interested to know your source behind this.. Eagerly waiting for this move to be confirmed by AA.
 
SYDSpotter
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:44 am

Quoting mattnrsa (Thread starter):
Back in June when AA announced the new flight to SYD and the JV with QF, they also advised that AKL was on their radar. Four months later UA announces that they will be the first US airline to (re)start service to New Zealand.

Would UA have started service to AKL if AA hadn't publicly revealed that they were also looking into it? Is this a defensive move to try to make it harder for non-Star carriers to begin additional service? It seems like the UA route announcement would catch AA off guard (it appeared to be unexpected by many here) and could change the competive landscape in what is likely not a very big market, relatively speaking.

I think people are reading too much into this. Airlines quite frequently talk publicly about their future plans, in the case of AA, their intentions for AKL-LAX could've been pretty firm or on the flip side, just a brainstorming idea. In the case of UA, they probably had the SFO-AKL route on their own "radar" for quite a while, so AA's announcement probably just caused UA to launch the route sooner rather than later. If you launched a new route every time your competitor was 'planning' a route just to counteract them, I think you would go out of business pretty soon.

AA would've done modelling on the LAX-AKL business case to take into account the potential for the existing competition to respond with new routes/capacity. So I don't think UA launching SFO-AKL prior to AA will impact their end decision on if they will launch LAX-AKL. I don't think AA/QF would ever think that NZ/UA would just sit still on NZ-US capacity.
 
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qf2220
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:15 am

Id think that the DFW option ex AKL might be the competitive difference here that AA/QF could now take advantage of. Yes, LAX is closer, but the same benefits that QF gets from SYD-DFW would apply to AKL-DFW, i.e. access to the central and eastern states. That would give UA/NZ a challlenge as they don't currently offer this routing and probably couldn't match an AA/QF pairing. LAX though of course is a bigger market, i would trust AA to have done their homework.

Other thing, UA is only 3pw. Hardly a massive presence if you ask me.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:27 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 38):

UA is 3pw to start with a 788, daily 789s from October.

I think LAX makes more sense than DFW to start with atleast, bigger local market and most of the big markets would be served from LAX as well as DFW domestically.
 
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mariner
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:37 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 35):

AA AKL announcement looking like it's going to be this week. Wonder if UA pushed them to announce sooner.

Has the NZ Minister of Transport approved the JV then?

mariner
 
uberflieger
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:46 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 35):
AA AKL announcement looking like it's going to be this week.

AAL reports quarterly earnings 23 October, a great day to make new route announcements.   
 
superjeff
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:06 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 5):
s HA flying from SFO or LAX to AKL? I didn't think do. Hawaiian just Started flying to AKL.
United is the first Major to RE-Start Service to AKL. I think you're getting up in arms over nothing
UAL already cut the path HA is flying. And I'm sure HA will do a fine job as well.

Hawaiian's been flying HNL-AKL for quite a while now - they have more service than NZ on the route, plus decent connections to the continental U.S. Their only major issue is an inferior J product, but, since most people on the route don't fly J, they are far superior to UA, enough that some may choose to fly via HNL (a good break in anotherwise long flight).
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:11 pm

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 38):
That would give UA/NZ a challlenge as they don't currently offer this routing and probably couldn't match an AA/QF pairing

By the time AA/QF have a DFW-AKL service, UA/NZ will have IAH-AKL. A standoff I would say.
 
IADCA
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:00 pm

Quoting superjeff (Reply 42):
Hawaiian's been flying HNL-AKL for quite a while now - they have more service than NZ on the route, plus decent connections to the continental U.S.

As long as by "continental U.S.", you mean "the West Coast," then yes. I'm aware of the JFK, PHX, and LAS flights, but for anything outside of NYC that's east of the Rockies, HA requires a double connection to NZ, including an interline that tends to make pricing off the charts, if the itinerary is even bookable.
 
VC10er
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:37 pm

WILL UNITED INTRODUCE A NEW BUSINESS FIRST SEAT? For these ULH flights, it is difficult to imagine being stuck next to a stranger who either you must climb over OR who must climb over you. Doesn't NZ and QF and Virgin Australia have a far more advanced hard product?

AA will have their new seats. What is United thinking?
 
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qf2220
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:44 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 43):

It depends IMO. If the first mover locks up the market, the second will have a tougher fight to fight and may not do as well.

American colleagues, how does DFW compare to IAH in terms of onward connectibility? Ie which would be the better port for a carrier to use for better east coast connections? Id think DFW, but don't know a lot about the intricacies of both.
 
HPRamper
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:09 pm

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 46):
American colleagues, how does DFW compare to IAH in terms of onward connectibility? Ie which would be the better port for a carrier to use for better east coast connections? Id think DFW, but don't know a lot about the intricacies of both.

DFW has better connectivity along the East Coast. IAH was developed as more of a hub to serve the South and Latin America, UA had IAD to serve the Eastern Seaboard and, to a lesser extent CLE to serve the Northeast as well. Now with EWR in the mix, even with the subtraction of CLE and reduction of IAD there is even less need for IAH to comprehensively serve the East Coast.
AA on the other hand closed down BNA and RDU as hubs a long time ago so outside slot-controlled JFK and very limited LGA, DFW and ORD have had to carry the brunt of East Coast connectivity from the west. MIA is not and never really could be effective at serving anything outside Florida and Latin America. Obviously with the addition of CLT and PHL megahubs to the mix DFW no longer has to carry that weight, but the merger is still nowhere near complete and those synergies have yet to be realized. In years to come, perhaps DFW's connectivity to the East will also dwindle a bit.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:51 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 46):
which would be the better port for a carrier to use for better east coast connections

when it was rumored more than 2years ago that NZ was looking at IAH I went into Flighstats and looked at where the arrivals were coming from for a 2 hour period around 1900hrs and where the departures were going for about a two hour period from about 1600hrs . I was surprised by the number of destinations inbound and outbound from IAH. Just looking at today, UA had 58 departures between 3pm and 5 pm to cities east of the Mississippi . It is reasonable to assume that there were a similar number of arrivals.
 
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qf2220
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RE: Should AA Not Have Announced Intentions For AKL?

Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:18 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 48):

What were the DFW numbers?

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 47):

Thanks!

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