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AR385
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Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:44 am

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...2&objectid=11526306&ref=NZH_FBpage

There is a pic on the article of the airliner coming in to land very low and with a high angle of attack. Is this acually risky, or a matter of perspective from the camera that took the pic? Comments? It does seem to me a bad landing.

Sorry for not embedding the pic. I was unsure about copyright rules.

[Edited 2015-10-09 20:47:35]
 
EY460
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RE: Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:54 am

 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:22 am

The 346 landed around 03:00 p.m. local time during the Sunday afternoon on October 05th, where a lot of visitors were ready with their smart-phones, close to the threshold of runway 25.
Caution signs are of course placed in the proximity of that region.
The local TV news showed that video again and again.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
spacecadet
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RE: Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:26 am

I don't have firsthand knowledge of this airport, but this looks like pretty much every landing at St. Maarten. I wouldn't call it a close call.
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LTU932
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RE: Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:40 am

It's a low landing, but not a close call. RW 25 is a visual approach, where you initially approach RW 07, then do a right turn to later circle to land.

RW 07/25 is 9882 ft long, 25 has a displaced threshold area that is about 2000 ft long. There's far more safety margin in that approach than in SXM, where you land over a beach and a short runway. AFAIK, most landings are on RW 07 even in tailwind conditions under 10 kts, and I presume it's due to the ILS.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
egph
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RE: Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:14 pm

Regarding claims that the fence was clipped.

I don't know San Jose airport at all but at my local EDI, the airport fence has barbed wire at the top throughout. Wouldn't clipping this cause the tires to be damaged?
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:20 pm

Insane video.... the center wheel was barely 3 meters above the guy filming...

Loved it!


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KC135Hydraulics
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RE: Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:35 am

Quoting EGPH (Reply 5):
Regarding claims that the fence was clipped.

I don't know San Jose airport at all but at my local EDI, the airport fence has barbed wire at the top throughout. Wouldn't clipping this cause the tires to be damaged?

Highly doubt 32-ply aviation tire going 140mph will be damaged in the slightest by a chainlink fence, or even barbed wire but I guarantee you that fence is toast if it was indeed hit by the landing gear.
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trnswrld
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RE: Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:21 am

Weird that the plane went over the camera mans head extremely low, but yet didn't touch down for quite a long time. As if the plane was too low and more or less leveled off to make up the required extra distance to the runway. Which would make sense based off the picture from the side showing at a high angle of attack. Based off the limited data and pics/videos, it does appear the plane was lower than it should have been at that point and the pilots were pitching up or atleast leveled off the best they could to avoid landing before the runway.
 
OMP777X
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RE: Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:17 am

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 8):
Weird that the plane went over the camera mans head extremely low, but yet didn't touch down for quite a long time. As if the plane was too low and more or less leveled off to make up the required extra distance to the runway. Which would make sense based off the picture from the side showing at a high angle of attack. Based off the limited data and pics/videos, it does appear the plane was lower than it should have been at that point and the pilots were pitching up or atleast leveled off the best they could to avoid landing before the runway.

That was pretty much my take on it too. It appeared to be holding at around 50' or whatever it was at near the end as it passed overhead. That may be an effect of the camera, but still it was obviously a low approach no matter how you look at it.


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SJOtoLIR
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RE: Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:00 am

Update:

Iberia has cancelled all the landings at SJO using the runway 25 due to the excessive attention given by local media.
The 340 frames can utilize the runway 07 instead, allowing no more than 10 knots of the component related to the tail wind.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
D L X
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RE: Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:24 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxv70_V5CIs

another viewpoint.
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:40 am

SJO is not SXM.
In my view, it was a low approach as the touch down point from runway 25 is considerably displaced from the perimetral fence.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
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LTU932
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RE: Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:19 am

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 10):
Iberia has cancelled all the landings at SJO using the runway 25 due to the excessive attention given by local media.
The 340 frames can utilize the runway 07 instead, allowing no more than 10 knots of the component related to the tail wind.

I already wanted to say something about it. They can't outright say that they'll never land on 25 again, or at least that's what I've gathered from the local media. If you got e.g. a tailwind of 25 kts when landing on RW 07, you have to land on 25 for safety reasons. Good to see IB implements a 10 kts max tailwind rule for landings on 07.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:04 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 13):
They can't outright say that they'll never land on 25 again, or at least that's what I've gathered from the local media.

Point taken.
The former statement could be rephrased as: "The 340 on IB MAD-SJO would avoid landings in San Jose through the runway 25.
The first choice is the runway 07 and depending on the wind direction, the usage of runway 25 could be permitted."

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
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Asturias
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RE: Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:16 pm

I don't see anything particularly strange about that landing, it's all good.  
Tonight we fly
 
N1120A
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RE: Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:12 am

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 10):
Iberia has cancelled all the landings at SJO using the runway 25 due to the excessive attention given by local media.
The 340 frames can utilize the runway 07 instead, allowing no more than 10 knots of the component related to the tail wind.

That is idiotic, especially the first time they have one go off due to too much tailwind.
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LTU932
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RE: Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:38 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
That is idiotic, especially the first time they have one go off due to too much tailwind.

It is however not unsual aircraft doing tailwind landings on 07, if the tailwind is under 10 kts. And in the nightime, landings on 25 are out of the question anyyway.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
ZBBYLW
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RE: Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:08 pm

Having flown into SJO before, yes what many of the posters are writing are correct about tail winds and taking 07/25. Yes they would be maneuvering visually. Whether you are visual or following an instrument procedure you still need to be stabilized. This was not a stable approach. They were VERY low, you can tell by the fact the aircraft is more or less level in the late stages of approach in order to make the touch down zone. If they meant to do it, they were very unprofessional. If they did not mean to, and did not go around it would make you question their professionalism or at least competence. In this day and age, we have the training and knowledge to get out of bad situations. If you end up way off your profile (especially in a big heavy!) the corrections required to reestablish your self on a proper profile that low can really unsablize the approach.

You see the same type of crap go on at SXM where some carriers (you'll note that in general you don't see these super low photos/videos from specific airlines/countries of origin, but then have "Marvrick's" from other places/airlines) constantly hot dog their way in. I have seen a video circulating recently where a EMB nearly hits the fence. With this attitude that some of my fellow pilots display, we will one day loose complete trust of the flying public.
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BA777
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RE: Close Call? IB A346 At San José

Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:29 pm

Maybe their data monitoring system will flag this approach up and start a discussion.

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