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BoeingVista
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:55 am

Quote:
Qantas plans to connect the UK non-stop with Australia by 2017, using the latest Boeing 787-9 to fly between London and Perth. The airline’s chief executive, Alan Joyce, told Air Transport World that the new aircraft “opens up direct service from Australia to Europe for the first time”, and indicated that a flight from Heathrow to the Western Australia capital would be the obvious choice.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...lia-within-two-years-a6688236.html

The a.net consensus is that there is not enough high revenue PAX to make this route a reality, and personally I'll believe it when I see it but Joyce has said Qantas plan to fly Australia to London Non stop from 2017 in a 787-9, 18 hours in 9 across 787 no thanks.
BV
 
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thekorean
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:59 am

I assume some PAX are gonna connect from SYD, MEL, AKL, and so on, but what would be the difference between connecting at PER and at DXB?
 
Sydscott
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:00 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Thread starter):
The a.net consensus is that there is not enough high revenue PAX to make this route a reality, and personally I'll believe it when I see it but Joyce has said Qantas plan to fly Australia to London Non stop from 2017 in a 787-9, 18 hours in 9 across 787 no thanks.

I there enough premium revenue between London and Australia for such a service? Absolutely. Is it economical for QF to actually do it in reality? probably not. But AJ is talking about it. I'd imagine that PER-LHR and SYD-JFK will be the gold standard in long haul routes in the next 20 years.
 
zkncj
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:02 am

Quoting thekorean (Reply 1):
assume some PAX are gonna connect from SYD, MEL, AKL

I do wonder if NZ will try beat them to it, and extend AKL-PER (Currently an 789) onto LHR? they currently have an spare LHR slot being leased out to CX. With an additional 3x 789 entering service next year, which have yet to be allocated to any routes.
 
flyDTW1992
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:03 am

Hmm. GCMap has it at 9,009 statute miles. 787-9 published range is 8,790 miles.
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BoeingVista
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:04 am

Quoting thekorean (Reply 1):
I assume some PAX are gonna connect from SYD, MEL, AKL, and so on, but what would be the difference between connecting at PER and at DXB?

Its roughly 4-5 hours from SYD/MEL to PER, say 2 hours for plane change and bus between terminals (domestic and international terms on differnt side of runway) would give a total trip time of 24-25 hours, I think the minimum is 22-23 with connections via SIN/HKG.
BV
 
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BoeingVista
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:11 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 3):
I do wonder if NZ will try beat them to it, and extend AKL-PER (Currently an 789) onto LHR? they currently have an spare LHR slot being leased out to CX. With an additional 3x 789 entering service next year, which have yet to be allocated to any routes.

Its only 400 miles further flying AKL-PER-LHR than AKL-LAX-LHR so not much longet trip time but they are going to take a payload hit taking off at MTOW for an 18 hour flight.
BV
 
zkncj
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:11 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 5):
Its roughly 4-5 hours from SYD/MEL to PER, say 2 hours for plane change and bus between terminals (domestic and international terms on differnt side of runway) would give a total trip time of 24-25 hours, I think the minimum is 22-23 with connections via SIN/HKG.

Isn't PER currently building an new all in one terminal?


Currently the fast AKL-LHR is AKL-LAX-LHR at 24hours, with an 2hour stop in LAX.
 
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RWA380
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:14 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 3):
I do wonder if NZ will try beat them to it, and extend AKL-PER (Currently an 789) onto LHR?

Zero chance, IMO. NZ to UK is quicker via LAX mileage wise & time wise, there is zero advantage having two airlines flying such an ULH route.

This allows passengers to transit visa free (if applicable) no delays at congested airports like DXB, SIN & BKK. Also will QF have everyone clear customs in Perth them, making the PER-SYD leg a 789 for domestic operations? I may take it when we go next year.
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zkncj
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:29 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 8):
Zero chance, IMO. NZ to UK is quicker via LAX mileage wise & time wise, there is zero advantage having two airlines flying such an ULH route.

To put it into some local context, NZ and Qantas are kind of at war with each other. It mainly started of with NZ's investment into VA, which has had some effect on Qantas group.

As payback for NZ's investment in VA, which in part helps it keep running at loss (Shareholder, have subsided losses). Jetstar recently launched regional routes in New Zealand, that NZ had the monopoly on. They also launched AKL-RAR-AKL, which is one of NZ's busier Pacific Island routes.

Qantas doesn't its 789s yet, and won't be getting until 2017. By then NZ will already have 10 789, and will be getting ready for 11/12 to be delivered.

It wouldn't about taking passengers from AKL-LHR, it would be about taking passengers from PER-LHR through feed from VA. Its like if you book on NZ to AKL-LHR, the prefer to send you via Aisa so that they can pick up passengers in LAX.
 
CXfirst
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:33 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 7):
Isn't PER currently building an new all in one terminal?

They are building a domestic pier for VA at T1 (international terminal).

QF are staying at the other side for the time being, with no concrete plans on a move (well beyond 2020 at least).

If NZ do AKL-PER-LHR, as some here are suggesting, it does open up for some pretty seamless transfers from VA domestic to NZ.

-CXfirst
 
WearyDrover
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:42 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 7):
Isn't PER currently building an new all in one terminal?

A new domestic pier is under construction and VA hope to move in during November. QF will spread out at the old domestic terminal and will not move to the other side of the field for a few years yet.

I have my doubts on the viability of the plan if it depends on attracting passengers from interstate. A short flight, followed by one almost four times as long with an inconvenient transfer would deter many. Even the planned rail link between the terminals might not be sufficient to overcome resistance.

[Edited 2015-10-09 22:48:54]
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RWA380
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:50 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 9):
To put it into some local context, NZ and Qantas are kind of at war with each other. It mainly started of with NZ's investment into VA, which has had some effect on Qantas group

I get tit for tat in the airline industry, airlines have done it for years, often to their own detriment. I still don't see NZ launching an ULH route just to beat QF by a couple months, plus it is quicker via LAX from N.Z.

I see this far more as a prestige route, QF being the first carrier to connect Australia & the U.K. will likely get some free press to help inaugurate the route. The first commercial service UK to Australia, The fabled kangaroo route has no more hops.
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BoeingVista
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:57 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 7):
Isn't PER currently building an new all in one terminal?


No, it is planing an extension to terminal 1, a new pier around 2020 but I don't believe there are any concrete plans to merge domestic and international terminals.
BV
 
zkncj
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:11 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 12):
I get tit for tat in the airline industry, airlines have done it for years, often to their own detriment. I still don't see NZ launching an ULH route just to beat QF by a couple months, plus it is quicker via LAX from N.Z.

NZ website itself doesn't recommend via LAX, they list lax way down the bottom. They prefer to list cheaper options connecting onto other airlines.

e.g 15/12/15

AKL-YVR-LHR NZ/AC
AKL-HKG-LHR NZ/CX or CX/CX
AKL-HKG-LHR NZ/VS
AKL-SFO-LHR NZ/VS
AKL-SFO-LHR NZ/BA
AKL-SIN-LHR NZ/NZ or SQ/SQ
AKL-HKG-LHR NZ/BA
AKL-PVG-LHR NZ/VS
AKL-LAX-LHR NZ/NZ

It wouldn't be about taking passengers from AKL-LHR, it would be to take passengers from Western Au-LHR
 
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XAM2175
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:38 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 3):
if NZ will try beat them to it, and extend AKL-PER (Currently an 789) onto LHR?
Quoting zkncj (Reply 14):
NZ website itself doesn't recommend via LAX, they list lax way down the bottom.

I seem to remember reading that NZ's position at the present was that serving NZ-UK wasn't a market they actually wanted to be in. Removing AKL-HKG-LHR and sending passengers on SQ or the like over their own metal through LAX would seem to confirm that, especially as the AKL-LAX and LAX-LHR legs are apparently more profitable individually than when loaded with through traffic.

Similarly I just cannot see QF actually going ahead on this, but hell, I've been wrong every time I've opened my mouth on these topics before so...
 
TC957
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:42 am

There's dozens of good connection options for LHR - PER, I really don't see the demand for a non-stop, not to mention the distance being questionable within the 789's range as already mentioned.
I would think QF are better off using the 789 to open and develop long & thin services to Asia where the aircraft can do 2 round trips in the time it takes to do one going to LHR.
 
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seabosdca
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:56 am

This is a good publicity play. But... the 787-9 is a great aircraft, but not quite that great. I can't imagine them taking the payload hit for what is already likely to be a marginal route.
 
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BoeingVista
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:11 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 9):
To put it into some local context, NZ and Qantas are kind of at war with each other. It mainly started of with NZ's investment into VA, which has had some effect on Qantas group.

Qantas are purpetually at war with everyone, this skirmism probably started way back either with NZ buying Ansett or joining star alliance or partnering with SQ another old enemy..

Quoting WearyDrover (Reply 11):
I have my doubts on the viability of the plan if it depends on attracting passengers from interstate.

Cleraly there are more than a plane load of customers flying PER-LHR every day but whether QF can hoover them up and persuade them to sit for 18 hours on the most cramped of cramped widebodies is another matter. Also there is going to be zero freight on this flight and they are going to need 3 crews so its going to have cost challenges.
BV
 
zkncj
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:34 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 18):
Qantas are purpetually at war with everyone, this skirmism probably started way back either with NZ buying Ansett or joining star alliance or partnering with SQ another old enemy..

They did try to be friendly around the mid-2000s, with the proposed NZ/QF Tasman merger, that got rejected by government authorities on both side of the tasman.
 
Auchmithie
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:41 am

Does the QF/EK agreement state that all QF Australia - Europe services have to transit Dubai or that all QF Australia - Europe services have to transit Dubai IF they have a transit at all?
 
WearyDrover
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:41 am

Back in August Alan Joyce had suggested that PER could become a launch pad for non-stop flights into Europe, not necessarily LHR. But he seemed to be saying that such flights would draw on feed from the Eastern States, as he was quoted by the West Australian as saying that':

"a seamless domestic to International transfer was essential for the hub operation and that will become a reality early in the next decade when Qantas’s domestic operations move to the international side of the airport”.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/29313890/qantas-eyes-perth-as-non-stop-hub-to-europe/

So it would appear any such flights are long way off.

I know much is made of the end of the mining boom but no-one can say how long the present slow down in investment and employment will last. With the fall in the dollar, this is a good time to be encouraging tourism growth.

[Edited 2015-10-10 02:07:08]
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ManchesterMAN
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:42 am

I think the title of this thread is a little misleading. At the very least it should have a ? at the end.

IMO this won't happen.
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N14AZ
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:42 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Thread starter):
18 hours in 9 across 787 no thanks.

I simply cannot believe that any airlines would offer something like this. Are they possibly talking about all J-flights?

The idea to put a human being into a narow seat for 18 hours sounds like a crime to me, unacceptable from the health point of view.
 
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BoeingVista
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:43 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 19):
They did try to be friendly around the mid-2000s, with the proposed NZ/QF Tasman merger, that got rejected by government authorities on both side of the tasman.

Which was a massively anti-competitive plan that would have left the merged entity with 80% of Australia-NZ traffic.

Quoting Auchmithie (Reply 20):
Does the QF/EK agreement state that all QF Australia - Europe services have to transit Dubai or that all QF Australia - Europe services have to transit Dubai IF they have a transit at all?

If Joyce and QF are serious clearly it can't be the first option.
BV
 
ZK-NBT
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:47 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 14):

I can't see NZ careing all that much if QF were to launch PER-LHR let alone doing it themselves with an 18 odd hour sector in there, weather or not QF do any of these proposed flights who knows DFW-MEL etc. QF are getting an initial 8 789s to replace 5 744s so not much room for more than 1 new route, 2 at a push but what they might be who knows.
 
CXfirst
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:00 am

Quoting Auchmithie (Reply 20):
Does the QF/EK agreement state that all QF Australia - Europe services have to transit Dubai or that all QF Australia - Europe services have to transit Dubai IF they have a transit at all?

Well, by 2017, the deal should be up for renewal by then. So, it isn't the current deal, but the potential next agreement that counts. If QF wants to fly non-stop, they'll make that part of the deal. If EK don't like this development, then they might want a clause in the agreement. We'll just have to see. Personally, I believe that if EK have any problem at all with it, QF won't risk starting the route. Too much risk, especially if the agreement depends on it.

-CXfirst
 
The Coachman
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:30 pm

Although PER is relatively close to ground level, taking off at about 9pm would still be too early with runway temperatures seriously affecting take off loads during summer.

Perhaps someone could do the maths but typical PER summer temperatures are high 30c and 40c is not uncommon. Can still be that warm at 9pm.
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Flighty
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:40 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 23):
The idea to put a human being into a narow seat for 18 hours sounds like a crime to me, unacceptable from the health point of view.

Agreed. People whose schedule is so tight they can't take a 2 hours break, while traveling to the opposite side of the Earth, should question their priorities and their lifestyle. What's the hurry?
 
aryonoco
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:46 pm

Quoting Auchmithie (Reply 20):

Does the QF/EK agreement state that all QF Australia - Europe services have to transit Dubai or that all QF Australia - Europe services have to transit Dubai IF they have a transit at all?

It is believed the agreement says that if QF wants to fly to any point West of DXB and if it is to stop en route there, that stop has to be at DXB. It leaves open the possibility of QF launching direct Australia-Europe flights.

Having said that, I imagine EK wouldn't be pleased with such an undertaking. And that's just one of the MANY reasons why this route won't launch, at least not with current generation of aircraft. I mean seriously, just how many 789s would such a route tie up to operate daily? 14? QF would have a lot more profitable places to deploy 14 brand new 789s on.
 
aryonoco
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:54 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 28):
Agreed. People whose schedule is so tight they can't take a 2 hours break, while traveling to the opposite side of the Earth, should question their priorities and their lifestyle. What's the hurry?

What does it have to do with being in a hurry? I would very happily sit on a 18 hour flight in Y if I could fly MEL-DFW and avoid changing at SYD or LAX.

I really don't understand this hatred towards long flights. I've got food there, music, my computer, a great entertainment system with loads of movies, I can read books, nap, etc. All activities that I generally find pleasurable. I don't understand why someone can't occupy themselves for less than a day with so many things at their disposal.

[Edited 2015-10-10 05:57:49]
 
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N14AZ
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:58 pm

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 30):
I really don't understand this hatred towards long flights. I've got food there, music, my computer, a great entertainment system with loads of movies, I can read books, nap, etc. All activities that I generally find pleasurable. I don't understand why someone can't occupy themselves for less than a day with so many things at their disposal.

Well, that's fine that you could stand this. But I am sure there are people out there, maybe elderly people, who might face medical problems when within 18 hours, their only movement is to go some meters to the toilet and back.
 
ben175
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:10 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 31):
Well, that's fine that you could stand this. But I am sure there are people out there, maybe elderly people, who might face medical problems when within 18 hours, their only movement is to go some meters to the toilet and back.

It always baffles me when people mutter on about how an 18 hour flight in Y is absolutely ludicrous when every day hundreds of passengers choose to fly 16-17 hours in an economy seat on QF from DFW to SYD.

One extra hour is not much of a difference at all. The average joe often finds the hassle of getting on and off planes and lingering around an airport for 2-3 hours on a layover very frustrating. Most people just want to get to their destinations as soon as they can.
 
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N14AZ
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:16 pm

Quoting ben175 (Reply 32):
It always baffles me when people mutter on about how an 18 hour flight in Y is absolutely ludicrous when every day hundreds of passengers choose to fly 16-17 hours in an economy seat on QF from DFW to SYD.

Yes, but that's onboard of a A380, not a 787, that's a different ballpark, you know?

Without kidding... I do believe that there people out there who have no problems to fly that long. No problem.
 
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BoeingVista
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:39 pm

Quoting The Coachman (Reply 27):
Although PER is relatively close to ground level

Ha! yes you could call 20m relatively close..

Quoting The Coachman (Reply 27):
Perhaps someone could do the maths but typical PER summer temperatures are high 30c and 40c is not uncommon. Can still be that warm at 9pm.

Perth is not as hot as you think, average summer temp low to mid 30c maybe 4 days a year of 40c+ but unlike the eastern states temp drops markedly over night maybe 10c drop by 9pm so mid 20's by take off time.

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 30):
What does it have to do with being in a hurry? I would very happily sit on a 18 hour flight in Y if I could fly MEL-DFW and avoid changing at SYD or LAX.

On my last trip back from Europe I chose to take 3 5-7 hours flights instead of 2 flights of 7 & 13 hours, you know what, I felt a lot better for it got some great seafood noodles in DOA stretched my legs at SIN and picked up some DF didn't get bored on flights or saddle sore as have in the past. Took me an extra few hours but so what.
BV
 
BlatantEcho
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:50 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 34):
On my last trip back from Europe I chose to take 3 5-7 hours flights instead of 2 flights of 7 & 13 hours, you know what, I felt a lot better for it got some great seafood noodles in DOA stretched my legs at SIN and picked up some DF didn't get bored on flights or saddle sore as have in the past. Took me an extra few hours but so what.

Exact opposite.

The idea of stopping on a flight that I don't have to makes me cringe. Waste of time, with the additional new possibility of delays and hassles deplaning, boarding, taxi, etc etc. Plus, likely flying much further off the GC map, so just covering extra distance.

I will always pay more money for the quicker trip with fewer connections.

My longest flights are usually 14 hours, but, I would never hesitate to book a 16-17-18hr flight if it saved me 2 hours and cost 20% more.
 
Ruscoe
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:26 pm

Clearly the current 789 would need payload restrictions, and this is how Qantas can make the trip more tolerable (if they want to), by using the payload restrictions to go 8 abreast or 9 abreast with more pitch.

Really the 789 at 9 abreast is not the most uncomfortable wide body. Airbus are actively marketing the 359 at 10 abreast with a 15" aisle., and 9 abreast 330's and 8 abreast 767's are already flying.,

the success or otherwise of Perth -London has nothing to do with how wide the seats are, it is all about trying to make money by getting as many people into an aircraft as possible, and flying the distance.

Pax do have a discomfort level that they will not tolerate but the 789 at 9 abreast is not there.

As has been said, for a lot of people it is the airport and the processes there that are the biggest problem flying and a non stop flight has a lot of attraction.

Ruscoe
 
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BoeingVista
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:39 pm

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 35):
My longest flights are usually 14 hours, but, I would never hesitate to book a 16-17-18hr flight if it saved me 2 hours and cost 20% more.

Each to his own but PER-LHR is only going to save you time if you originate from Perth, if flying from Sydney you are still going to have a 2 hour layover.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 36):
Really the 789 at 9 abreast is not the most uncomfortable wide body. Airbus are actively marketing the 359 at 10 abreast with a 15" aisle., and 9 abreast 330's and 8 abreast 767's are already flying.,

A 789 at 9 abreast is uncomfortable, at 8 abreast this route would be uneconomical.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 36):
the success or otherwise of Perth -London has nothing to do with how wide the seats are, it is all about trying to make money by getting as many people into an aircraft as possible, and flying the distance.

Ah I see and getting as many people onto an aircraft has nothing to do with seat width so I propose that they get 400 people on it with 20 inch wide seats.
BV
 
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sunrisevalley
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:56 pm

Note Joyce is saying LHR-PER . Quite a bit different than PER-LHR. Probably about 1.5 hrs. difference in flight time. But that Joyce is saying this ( as well as DFW-MEL) tells us that by the time QF are mid way through getting their 789 fleet that Boeing will have the weight down to a point that 17 to 18hrs is possible. RR were talking of a SFC improvement for the TEN of about 5% ; not sure what GE are planning to meet the competition. Boeing have got somewhere between 800 and 1000kg out of the 789 since its EIS. so the flight times aloft are continuing to improve.
 
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Stitch
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:56 pm

Quoting flyDTW1992 (Reply 4):
Hmm. GCMap has it at 9,009 statute miles. 787-9 published range is 8,790 miles.

That is design range, which is only passengers and their bags, with no cargo. And that assumes most-favorable conditions at the departure airport and en route, which westbound out of PER will most certainly not be the case (especially in summer).

The only way a 787-9 will be able to do it non-stop is with a low-density configuration with 6-abreast Business and 8-abreast Economy.



Quoting N14AZ (Reply 23):
The idea to put a human being into a narow seat for 18 hours sounds like a crime to me, unacceptable from the health point of view.
Quoting ben175 (Reply 32):
It always baffles me when people mutter on about how an 18 hour flight in Y is absolutely ludicrous when every day hundreds of passengers choose to fly 16-17 hours in an economy seat on QF from DFW to SYD.
Quoting N14AZ (Reply 33):
Yes, but that's onboard of a A380, not a 787, that's a different ballpark, you know?

It used to be done on a 747-400ER, which had similar seat width to the 787 (and at 10-abreas).



Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 38):
Note Joyce is saying LHR-PER . Quite a bit different than PER-LHR. Probably about 1.5 hrs. difference in flight time. But that Joyce is saying this ( as well as DFW-MEL) tells us that by the time QF are mid way through getting their 789 fleet that Boeing will have the weight down to a point that 17 to 18hrs is possible.

So we're talking something like a PER-DXB-LHR-PER rotation?

That would save a bit of the time on the return, but nothing on the outbound.

[Edited 2015-10-10 07:59:01]
 
AR385
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:58 pm

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 30):
I really don't understand this hatred towards long flights. I've got food there, music, my computer, a great entertainment system with loads of movies, I can read books, nap, etc. All activities that I generally find pleasurable.

I am sure that those activities are undertaken while in your home, sitting in a nice sofa, or lying in your bed. Doing the same in the Y seat of a cramped airliner is a whole different thing.

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 31):
Well, that's fine that you could stand this. But I am sure there are people out there, maybe elderly people

I am in my early 40s, and I would never consider (unless no other option) to fly Y for 18 hrs. Doing it on C or F is another story though, but still tough. Routinely, my longest flights are MEX-FRA and EZE-FRA, in C, sometimes in F. Even then, I arrive pretty tired and not in any shape to head to any meetings or work. I do it if I have to, but I always try to arrive a day ahead so I can rest. Long term, it just screws up your health.


In my opinion, people who take ULH flights do it because they have to. As in high yield business people.
Does PER-LON generate such traffic locally? Because if the idea is to attract people from other parts of Australia, I think those potential customers would much rather split the journey half-way, like in DBX, as others have mentioned. Taking once in a while a flight such as SYD-DFW is irrelevant, really. But having to do it relatively often, I can´t imagine people who look forward to it. Particularly in Y.
 
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N14AZ
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:02 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 39):
Quoting N14AZ (Reply 33):
Yes, but that's onboard of a A380, not a 787, that's a different ballpark, you know?

It used to be done on a 747-400ER, which had similar seat width to the 787 (and at 10-abreas).

Ooooops, thanks for commenting on this. I saw your reply and thought "hmmm, strange, I did put a smiley behind my joke, didn't I?" So I scrolled up to check of there is a smiley and was shocked to see that I had forgotten to put it there.

So just for the records: " Yes, but that's onboard of a A380, not a 787, that's a different ballpark, you know?" was a joke.
 
CXfirst
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:20 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 28):
Agreed. People whose schedule is so tight they can't take a 2 hours break, while traveling to the opposite side of the Earth, should question their priorities and their lifestyle. What's the hurry?

I would much rather stay on board an aircraft and get to my destination, than take a stop somewhere. I feel that the 2-3 hour layover (or however long it is) is a waste of time that just ends up being a hassle. New security checks, walking around a busy terminal when you might rather be sleeping, keeping yourself awake in order to board the next flight. And that is if everything goes smoothly. Add in delays, missed connections, etc, and it gets worse.

However, I'd still need the aircraft to be somewhat comfortable. My QR 787 experience wasn't great. Not only did it feel narrow, but I felt like the seat in front was closer than usual, and it had those stupid IFE boxes. Why? Surely, they can get them under the floor or a lot smaller and perhaps in the seat itself today. Other flights on other new aircraft had them gone!

-CXfirst
 
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RayChuang
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:48 pm

There's not enough O&D passengers to make LHR-PER a reality--especially when you're talking at least 17 hours cooped up in plane on a single flight. Wouldn't be better for LHR to PER via SIN, where at least passengers can get off the plane and stretch their legs at SIN's excellent in-airport facilities?
 
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qf789
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:29 pm

Quoting The Coachman (Reply 27):
Perhaps someone could do the maths but typical PER summer temperatures are high 30c and 40c is not uncommon. Can still be that warm at 9pm.

Since when has it been it the high 30's or even 40 at 9pm. Last summer PER airport only recorded 2 days of 40 degrees or higher. While we experience a good number of days in the high 30's by the time 9pm comes it is rarely above 32-33 degrees and this all depends on what time the Freo Doctor comes in and how strong it is.

Quoting ben175 (Reply 32):
It always baffles me when people mutter on about how an 18 hour flight in Y is absolutely ludicrous when every day hundreds of passengers choose to fly 16-17 hours in an economy seat on QF from DFW to SYD.

One extra hour is not much of a difference at all. The average joe often finds the hassle of getting on and off planes and lingering around an airport for 2-3 hours on a layover very frustrating. Most people just want to get to their destinations as soon as they can.

Agree with you. I would prefer a direct flight myself due to work reasons. Living in PER we are use to travelling long distances all the time whether its flying or driving, after all we are one of the most isolated cities in the world and many here would prefer a direct flight over a stop somewhere

Quoting Stitch (Reply 39):
So we're talking something like a PER-DXB-LHR-PER rotation

Stitch I think you've nailed it, seems right.

Quoting zkncj (Reply 7):
Isn't PER currently building an new all in one terminal?

Yes, QF is estimated to move there the early 2020's

Here's the updated master plan

http://www.perthairport.com.au/Libra...asterplan_2014-SECURED_2.sflb.ashx
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jacobin777
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:30 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 40):
In my opinion, people who take ULH flights do it because they have to. As in high yield business people.
Quoting RayChuang (Reply 43):
-especially when you're talking at least 17 hours cooped up in plane on a single flight.



Thousands of people do fly 14-16 hours without a problem so I don't see the big deal if QF can get it in about 17-18 hours with no connections, no extra security, etc.

I'm not saying QF is going to start the aforementioned flight(s) I'm only saying that I do not believe that the flight time for pax will be the limiting reason.
"Up the Irons!"
 
aryonoco
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:51 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 34):
I felt a lot better for it got some great seafood noodles in DOA stretched my legs at SIN and picked up some DF didn't get bored on flights or saddle sore as have in the past. Took me an extra few hours but so what.

This is obviously a matter of personal preference, but again, for me, this has nothing to do with getting there quickly, and everything to do with avoiding a stop. If theoretically we had a direct flight that took an hour longer than the non-direct flight to the same destination, I would still take the direct flight every day.

Aircraft descending, getting out of the plane, going through security again, getting back and settling in again, taking off again, those are the parts of flying I'm not a big fan of. But once I'm in my seat and the plane is cruising, everything is comfy and I'm happy.

It amazes me that we gather here, obviously all people who have a certain passion for aviation and are supposed to be flying enthusiasts, and yet if I go by what people say here, it looks like so many actually "hate" flying! I expect the joe public who can't tell a Boeing 737 from an A340 to want to get out of a plane as quickly as possible, but not people who are supposed to actually like flying. The reason I'm on a forum like this is because I actually enjoy flying, 18 hours on a plane sounds a lot better than 18 hours off a plane to me, cause when I'm on the plane, I get to fly!
 
CXfirst
Posts: 3022
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:13 pm

RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:59 pm

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 46):
The reason I'm on a forum like this is because I actually enjoy flying, 18 hours on a plane sounds a lot better than 18 hours off a plane to me, cause when I'm on the plane, I get to fly!

(Although I do agree with you) To be fair, this is originally a plane spotters website, no better place to spot planes than at a large mega transit hub like DXB or SIN! So your argument there could be used the other way as well!

-CXfirst
 
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BoeingVista
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:34 pm

Quoting qf789 (Reply 44):
Yes, QF is estimated to move there the early 2020's

Here's the updated master plan

It is still a propsal at this stage nothing more, it is not even listed as a future project on the airport website even though the 2nd runway is.

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 46):
The reason I'm on a forum like this is because I actually enjoy flying, 18 hours on a plane sounds a lot better than 18 hours off a plane to me, cause when I'm on the plane, I get to fly!

I too enjoy flying, but floating around in the sky is far less interesting than take offs, landings, wing configuration changes, different airports and getting on different aicraft; one of the reasons for the circle routing was to take some A350 and 789 sectors. Last before last I took flights into LCY (totally worth it) rather than LHR, just because..
BV
 
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RyanairGuru
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RUMOUR: QF To Fly LON-PER Non Stop From 2017

Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:03 pm

As qf002 pointed out on Australian Aviation, this is nothin more than attention grabbing media for the very good point that there is no way that they are launching PER-LHR with 8 787s. When they increase the order to 20 we can discuss growth options, but right now they haven't even ordered enough to replace all of the 747s that are leaving. Common sense states that we are not going to see a raft of new routes with the initial deliveries, and certainly not marginal routes that push the aircraft to the limit.
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