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callmedrewy
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Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:25 pm

A few months ago, prior to this thread, I was reading an article on the Washington Post (dated August 22, 2015) which struck me be surprise. Now I know that AA has a diverse culture with people coming from all walks of life to make the airline an amazing one. So, it would give one the negative impression about AA if they read such an article.

The part that envelops the whole aspect on the matter was:
"In the letter to Lynch, Mildenberg says that American Airlines has rebuffed the requests of black workers who seek additional training that could advance their careers. The airline, he said, also “has discriminated against minority employees by subjecting them to harassing and degrading treatment” and subjected them to “disproportionate discipline and retaliation for raising civil rights complaints.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...-11e5-bfe3-ff1d8549bfd2_story.html

As far as I am concerned, Philadelphia has a very large black population as well as the DC Metro area. So how could this get out of hand? Has other airports in the US observed similar situations?

Your shared thoughts and insights will be greatly appreciated.

--- Oh, and this is my very very first post on airliners.net. *gleeful*
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phlsfo
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:12 pm

Having previously worked for US at PHL, this whole situation sounds like a load of crap. I think it is just an attempt to get some money from the company and make them look bad.
 
bennett123
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:18 pm

If the complaints are anonymous, how can you investigate them.
 
callmedrewy
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:19 pm

Quoting phlsfo (Reply 1):
Having previously worked for US at PHL, this whole situation sounds like a load of crap. I think it is just an attempt to get some money from the company and make them look bad.

Personally too, it does sound quite odd.
AA, AC, DL, JM, KY, US
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moo
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:28 pm

Quoting callmedrewy (Thread starter):
American Airlines has rebuffed the requests of black workers who seek additional training that could advance their careers

That could be entirely true and still not be discrimination - unless they have evidence that AA is providing the same requested training to white employees at the same level, refusing the training isnt evidence of anything.
 
superjeff
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:31 pm

Speaking as a passenger who frequently flies AA (and previously, US) through both DCA and PHL, it seems like most of the customer contact staff, including managers, are Black. This kind of allegation really doesn't make any logical sense.
 
silentbob
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:20 pm

As someone who spends a lot of time in PHL, it's likely the lazy folks complaining that they aren't getting promoted. Just about anyone that shows initiative and interest in moving up the ladder seems to eventually be given a chance.
 
Capt.Fantastic
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:21 am

Quoting phlsfo (Reply 1):

Having previously worked for US at PHL, this whole situation sounds like a load of crap. I think it is just an attempt to get some money from the company and make them look bad.

Are you black? Did you even read the article? I don't see how anyone could call this a load of crap. The allegations are quite serious, and I'm eager to hear what transpires
 
usflyer msp
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:30 am

I am going to withhold judgement on this one until it is investigated. I have heard supervisors say incredibly stupid things before but I have also seen poor workers shakedown a company using allegations such as these. I will wait until some facts are established.
 
smokeybandit
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:37 am

These days all you need is one person to complain (with or without merit) and it'll be reported as a systemic issue.
 
IPFreely
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:10 am

Quoting silentbob (Reply 6):
As someone who spends a lot of time in PHL, it's likely the lazy folks complaining that they aren't getting promoted. Just about anyone that shows initiative and interest in moving up the ladder seems to eventually be given a chance.

Sounds about right. Probably started with some of these "victims" seeing a lawyer's late night TV ad telling them "the whole system is unfair to you and you are entitled to compensation."
 
HPRamper
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:56 am

As usual, we're only getting one side of the story. I'd like to read both before making any kind of judgement. A lot of this sounds legit, but a lot of it sounds very fishy as well.
 
rugger
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:05 am

I find it curious that the employees would even bother the US Attorney General with something like this. Don't they have union reps to take this kind of complaint to? This is kind of like going to the United Nations to complain about Ferguson.
 
IPFreely
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:11 am

Quoting Rugger (Reply 12):
I find it curious that the employees would even bother the US Attorney General with something like this

That idea probably comes an attention seeking attorney looking a national spotlight for himself and not from the employees.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:20 am

Quoting callmedrewy (Thread starter):

--- Oh, and this is my very very first post on airliners.net. *gleeful*

And you picked a winner of a topic if you like attention haha. Welcome Aboard a.net!
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:23 am

This is very interesting...

Interesting because both ACS VPs at both locations are black... (i'm black btw).
What gets measured gets done.
 
rbavfan
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:54 am

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 7):
Are you black? Did you even read the article? I don't see how anyone could call this a load of crap. The allegations are quite serious, and I'm eager to hear what transpires

No I am not black, but I have dated interracially. Reading the article it sounds like a lot of old US airways issues & some complaints about who get to do what during the merger. Lets see how it looks after the merger is fully done & changes are fully implemented. I'll bet there will be a lot of people bitching during all of this no matter what race they are. People get bent out of shape when the way things were done are changed. Everyone wants to be in their comfort zone. After two companies merge they will decide how things are processed & how operations are set. Lets try some new things, you might actually like it.

I have friends that were working for AA & lots from US as I live in Phoenix. Each side has complained about this or that as the merger continues. I've heard complaints about how non- rev is handled (the old way was better in there mind), the uniforms are not what we liked and other deeper operations issues. Buck up and learn to try new ideas guys or quit and go somewhere else.

So why the Huffington post spreads bad things. Its the Huffington post they love creating issues and making them worse. I will wait to see what the investigators say. After all most of the complaints are about the old US ways, lets see how the new AA handles them before we demonize them for what might be someone else's problem from the past.
 
b747400erf
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:37 am

Quoting phlsfo (Reply 1):
Having previously worked for US at PHL, this whole situation sounds like a load of crap.
Quoting phlsfo (Reply 1):
I think it is just an attempt to get some money from the company and make them look bad.
Quoting superjeff (Reply 5):
This kind of allegation really doesn't make any logical sense.
Quoting silentbob (Reply 6):
As someone who spends a lot of time in PHL, it's likely the lazy folks complaining that they aren't getting promoted.
Quoting smokeybandit (Reply 9):
These days all you need is one person to complain (with or without merit) and it'll be reported as a systemic issue.
Quoting IPFreely (Reply 10):

Sounds about right. Probably started with some of these "victims" seeing a lawyer's late night TV ad telling them "the whole system is unfair to you and you are entitled to compensation."
Quoting IPFreely (Reply 13):

That idea probably comes an attention seeking attorney looking a national spotlight for himself and not from the employees.

Look at all these people having already done their investigations.

Pack it up, attorneys, no need for anyone else to look into this, a.nets best and brightest non partisan and totally not racist crew have decided their judgment already.
 
UALFAson
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:09 am

Quoting superjeff (Reply 5):
Speaking as a passenger who frequently flies AA (and previously, US) through both DCA and PHL, it seems like most of the customer contact staff, including managers, are Black.

This was my first thought upon originally reading the article as well. I just flew US through DCA 2 weeks ago and could probably count on one hand the number of non-black customer service staff I saw. I don't know if the ethnic composition of the ramp staff is similar, but if so, I don't how there are enough white people to get the "better" shifts. And wouldn't everyone be working with the same supposedly faulty equipment?

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 17):
Pack it up, attorneys, no need for anyone else to look into this, a.nets best and brightest non partisan and totally not racist crew have decided their judgment already.

I don't think it's unreasonable for people to find it incredulous that such blatant, obviously illegal racial discrimination has been going on so systemically for so long and the first anyone is hearing of it externally is a request for a government investigation. Again, how does this even work? At the start of every shift the manager says, here white person, you get to use the brand new belt loader, and you little black Sambo get to use the rusty, falling apart one? Why has no one quit? Why has no one, including the union, gone running to the press before?

I think it's much more reasonable to assume that there is some sort of hidden/unknown motivation--either office politics, or a smear campaign, or a last-ditch negotiating ploy or something similar.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
airzona11
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:15 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 17):
Look at all these people having already done their investigations.

Pack it up, attorneys, no need for anyone else to look into this, a.nets best and brightest non partisan and totally not racist crew have decided their judgment already.

Just as you did.

Not one of those posts said anything remotely racist. Seems you are in the "if you don't agree, you must be a heartless uneducated racist" club.

Back to the topic of the article / OP. Googling this attorney, he was been involved with and joined recent media covered cases regarding race in the Philly area. Furthermore if you read the blogs about this attorney's work, he has a knack for the publicity spotlight.

Textbook class action ambulance chaser is the term that comes to mind. More litigation fees are certainly not going to keep American expanding employees and help to increase wages.
 
guyanam
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:48 am

Quoting airzona11 (Reply 19):

I could have predicted what comments would have been made without reading them.

Standard procedure. Blacks complain about something. Standard procedure. Non blacks (and some blacks who want to look good in front of whites) respond ridiculing the comments.

Laughable when those who claim that people shouldn't rush to judgment, then claim that the accusations are ridiculous.

Given that it doesn't appear that those who comment work at these facilities why are people claiming to be experts? The majority of those who worked on cotton plantations were black, and some even had black overseers. Clearly then a majority black work force doesn't in itself mean that these claims are without merit.

Especially laughable is the gentlemen who presumes that dating interracially makes him an expert on what blacks experience in large corporations. IMHO some of the worst racists are the self appointed liberal ones.
 
b747400erf
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:29 am

Quoting airzona11 (Reply 19):
Just as you did.

As I did? I said to not make decisions about this claim until it is properly investigated. You are trying to bully the wrong person.

Quoting airzona11 (Reply 19):

Not one of those posts said anything remotely racist.

If you cannot see the dog whistle racism then you are purposely ignoring it

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 18):

I think it's much more reasonable to assume that there is some sort of hidden/unknown motivation--either office politics, or a smear campaign, or a last-ditch negotiating ploy or something similar.

You find it impossible that racism still exists and that people are bringing formal allegations all based on office politics or a smear campaign?

Again, a nice jump to conclusions everyone here has done backed up by nothing but their persona biases.
 
777way
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:51 am

^ All racism related threads go this route, they always doubt and blame the victims.
 
hz747300
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:03 am

Quoting guyanam (Reply 20):
Standard procedure. Blacks complain about something. Standard procedure. Non blacks (and some blacks who want to look good in front of whites) respond ridiculing the comments.

Totally condescending! So black Americans cannot have an opinion that doesn't conform to the complainant on their own, it can only be to please whites? Probably the most racist thing posted on these boards.
Keep on truckin'...
 
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moo
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:10 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 22):
^ All racism related threads go this route, they always doubt and blame the victims.

Until something is proven, there are no victims - all we have here currently are allegations and alleged victims.

Making an allegation does not automatically make you a victim.
 
777way
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:41 am

Thats your take, why you have to impose it on others is beyond comprehension, cant I have my own perspective?
 
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moo
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:49 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 25):
Thats your take, why you have to impose it on others is beyond comprehension, cant I have my own perspective?

Its not "my take", its the basis of the ideal of the "innocent until proven guilty" stance that we tend to enjoy in western nations, in both criminal and civil matters.

Being the first person to shout about something does not make your stance true or correct. Far too often we ascribe the term "victim" to someone when their claims haven't been tested yet - at best, we should be neutral at this point in time, not calling people racist and assuming the victim is inviolate.

In short, your perspective sucks just as much as those who were calling the claims rubbish from the outset.
 
rbavfan
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:33 am

Quoting guyanam (Reply 20):
Especially laughable is the gentlemen who presumes that dating interracially makes him an expert on what blacks experience in large corporations.

I never said it makes me an expert. I noted an opinion. Do not put words that I did not say into your mouth. At the same time you think my partner would not comment about what was happening where they worked. Have you ever been in a relationship? If you had you would know both sides complain or bitch about what goes on at work & how they feel about it.


Also in union shops whomever has seniority gets the best work, best/newest equipment. So it might be an I've been here longer I get this machine! As I said if you read all my comment is I will wait for the investigation to be finished before making up my mind.

This post was totally click bait to start more issues. As you read the back and forth you see how far we are divided. If you can't deal with other peoples opinions with out attacking them personally, you have already lost the debate! When we debate the object is to share opinion & get opinion back. Not get rude comments that presume on your end to know what I know, don't know or who I am as a person.

The subject is Racism & Discrimination at AA's DCA & PHL Hubs. If you need to insult me to participate maybe you should not join in on the conversation.

[Edited 2015-10-12 03:45:16]
 
777way
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:52 am

Quoting moo (Reply 26):

Thank God I dont see things that man made way, always standy by victims, it can suck for you as your opinion dosent matter to me.

[Edited 2015-10-12 03:56:42]
 
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moo
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:59 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 28):
always standy by victims,

You really didn't take in anything I posted, did you...

These guys are screaming "I'm a victim, I'm a victim" and by you immediately buying into that without objectivity then they have succeeded in their goals. It doesn't matter what the reality is, by you accepting that they are victims you have already taken a position on this.

Quoting 777way (Reply 28):
it can suck for you as your opinion dosnet matter to me.

That's interesting, as I have yet to actually post an actual opinion on this matter...
 
ltbewr
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:00 am

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 16):
Reading the article it sounds like a lot of old US airways issues & some complaints about who get to do what during the merger. Lets see how it looks after the merger is fully done & changes are fully implemented. I'll bet there will be a lot of people bitching during all of this no matter what race they are. People get bent out of shape when the way things were done are changed. Everyone wants to be in their comfort zone. After two companies merge they will decide how things are processed & how operations are set. Lets try some new things, you might actually like it.

This is most likely at the heart of the reason for the claims. Probably the seniority lists favor AA 'lifers', then US staff pre-America West and then former HP staff. Likely those originally with HP are involved in this. Sadly, too often race (or gender by woman), or ethnicity (mainly by Hispanic/Latinos) is played up to try to gain some advantage, slightly better pay. Sadly too real life economic and racial discrimination and segregation as to public education in cities like Philadelphia means other than Whites will far too often not be sufficiently educated to be able to qualify for promotions and non-seniority placement. Perhaps too, AA may want more of their staff bi-lingual, especially in Spanish, and not enough of the Blacks complaining are not.
It is very easy to bring up these claims with the Federal EEOC and state equivalents, sometimes they are well documented as to blatent racism, sexism, etc. but after discovery and depositions, there isn't. Then too may companies will pay off the loudest voices or only weak charges to save legal costs and to reduce any bad public relations
 
strfyr51
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:05 pm

Being From Philadelphia and also working in the industry I might tend to agree with them about US Air.
In the past Ive seen it to be a "Good Old Boy" type of outfit which is why I didn't move back east to work for them.
I applied to them in 1983 and didn't hear from them until 1985. By that time I'd already been with United 19 mos.
I didn't Know anybody at US Air so it wasn't a priority to Interview me. I knew Guys at SFO who worked for USAir who later went to LAS and LAX for USAir. So overall I'm actually glad USAir had that mentality. United by then hadn't hired anybody in 10 years and I fell into a seniority area that never had a Layoff. in 31years.
 
b747400erf
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:17 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 24):
Until something is proven

All I stated is give the allegations the benefit of the doubt and not call them bs from the start, as certain people have done here. And they did it in the most awful way, by suggesting lazy and incompetent staff making the accusation.
 
UALFAson
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:09 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 32):
All I stated is give the allegations the benefit of the doubt and not call them bs from the start, as certain people have done here.

That's a rather diplomatic summary of your comments, but I do fully agree with you that the claims should be fully and unbiasedly investigated, nor do I believe that racism doesn't exist, as you accused/suggested me of doing earlier.

What I am saying is that this very one-sided version of events is almost so incredulous as to be unbelievable. If this, in fact, is an accurate description of the work conditions at these locations, it is absolutely appalling and offensive. To question the veracity of these allegations or to wonder about the potential motivations of the accusers does not make one racist, it makes one a critical thinker.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
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WesternDC6B
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:17 pm

Quoting Rugger (Reply 12):
I find it curious that the employees would even bother the US Attorney General with something like this.

  

Going to a union rep doesn't garner headlines. I smell a shakedown, like the ones being tried in the Silicon Valley.
“Pedantic” defined: spelling “pedantic” “pædantic”.
 
777way
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:57 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 29):

They are victims to me until proven liars, just like people are innocent to you until proven guilty.
 
guyanam
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:36 pm

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 23):

Quite true. Yes some people do say things to ingratiate themselves with those who they seek favor with. Why is that such a hard concept to understand?

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 27):

YOU brought up your relationship, clearly thinking that it would validate your opinion. I merely tell you that it is irrelevant to this topic.



Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 31):

And here we go with validation from some one familiar with the situation establishing that there may well be validity to these claims.

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 32):

They employ the usual stereotypes of black workers, and then claim no racism. Well maybe it is THESE attitudes that the workers are complaining about. Folks should stop denying that there aren't many who still act on this belief system.

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 33):

The accusations might be incredulous to you, which is why they ought to be investigated. This doesn't appear to be one or two disgruntled employees.

Face it racism is much less than it used to be, but it hasn't disappeared all together, and a "good old boy" trade union environment is just the place where it might still continue to fester.
 
bobnwa
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:06 pm

In order to form an opinion on this situation,I would need some specific details.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:31 am

I have sat at a gate waiting for my flight in PHL looking at the ground crew loading the plane. I have never seen a more inept, careless ground crew anywhere. The average throughput for a 2 or 3 person crew was about a bag a minute (to the point they actually caused the flight to be delayed even though it was only a short hop on a CRJ-200) and they didn't so much load the bags as throw them on the plane. If every ground crew at PHL was like that one no wonder AA did not decide to invest in them.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
b747400erf
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:46 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 38):
If every ground crew at PHL was like that one no wonder AA did not decide to invest in them.

I knew you'd be in here repeating the same type of comment. Thank you for adding to the long list of insulting and pointless comments to this topic that try and blame the alleged victims. You should have added something like "and then they drove off in their Escalades" for the full effect. It's like reading a Fox comment section.
 
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pu
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:50 am

Quoting callmedrewy (Thread starter):
Your shared thoughts and insights will be greatly appreciated.

My main thoughts are that the airline business is 90% workers who can legitimately never expect to rise above worker status. That's just the kind of industry it is. Operations are VERY labor-intensive, but management is relatively thin.

It's hard for anyone to start in a non-management role and get into management at an airline - black, white, woman, man, or whatever!

On the other hand, I do think there is a bit of racism in all big companies. They overpopulate the low levels of workers with minorities so they can point to good overall numbers, which is a way to obscure the fact that there are still very few non-white-male faces in the executive suite.

Quoting Rugger (Reply 12):
This is kind of like going to the United Nations to complain about Ferguson.

Much of the world is obsessed with pointing out the wrongs in America because they think Americans either don't know or don't care about the truth. So I fully expect the UN to get involved when asked.





Pu.
 
mham001
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:04 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 39):
Thank you for adding to the long list of insulting and pointless comments to this topic that try and blame the alleged victims. You should have added something like "and then they drove off in their Escalades" for the full effect.

How do you know anything about his experience? Who he saw, what their color?

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 39):
It's like reading a Fox comment section.

And then jump headfirst into your own gross generalization. We need an Ignore button.
 
b747400erf
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RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:08 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 41):

And then jump headfirst into your own gross generalization. We need an Ignore button.

Funny you are not outraged over the racist comments in here but when I point out it all reads like a Fox News comment section that gets you very upset. Why is that?

Someone making a personal experience observation that has nothing to do with the accusers except to try and smear their work ethic has no place in this discussion and neither do people that claim to know this accusation is false based on t heir single observations and biases.

It is like the discussions about food stamp funding always devolve into comments about "I once was at a market and this black woman with kids was buying junk food and then left in her brand new Escalade!" It is insulting and these types of comments have no place here.

[Edited 2015-10-12 21:24:12]
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3165
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:15 am

Quoting pu (Reply 40):
They overpopulate the low levels of workers with minorities so they can point to good overall numbers

Id like to see a citation for this. From what I have read, minorities have a hard time being hired and face biases based on their race from someone looking at their name on an application form to the interview itself. Where are these overpopulated minorities in low level jobs at big companies? Black unemployment rate is over 9% compared to the 4.4% of whites
 
rugger
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:03 pm

RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:40 am

Quoting pu (Reply 40):
Quoting Rugger (Reply 12):
This is kind of like going to the United Nations to complain about Ferguson.

Much of the world is obsessed with pointing out the wrongs in America because they think Americans either don't know or don't care about the truth. So I fully expect the UN to get involved when asked.

The UN won't get involved with this. They'll simply say that it's simply an internal U.S. problem and should be handled by the proper US authorities. It's not international in scope. It reads more like a shakedown than a legitimate complaint anyway. Just like when those bozo's from Ferguson went to Geneva to ask the UN for help. What happened with that?
 
catiii
Posts: 3584
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:41 am

Quoting pu (Reply 40):
It's hard for anyone to start in a non-management role and get into management at an airline - black, white, woman, man, or whatever!

At my airline most managers have come from within the company in operations or analyst roles. Totally the opposite of what you're saying with your broad brush, absolute statement that, frankly, doesn't reflect the reality of the industry.

[Edited 2015-10-12 21:43:21]
 
User avatar
pu
Posts: 1364
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:08 am

RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:57 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 43):
Where are these overpopulated minorities in low level jobs at big companies? Black unemployment rate is over 9% compared to the 4.4% of whites

Large companies in the US provide under 10 percent of all jobs. Due to the ease of starting a business in America, their economy depends much less on big corporations than other first world nations. So overpopulation of minorities at Fortune500 entry level positions does very little to effect the unemployment rates.

Also, your conclusions presume all applicants are equal. Is it possible less qualified applicants have higher rates of unemployment???

Quoting catiii (Reply 45):
Totally the opposite of what you're saying with your broad brush, absolute statement that, frankly, doesn't reflect the reality of the industry.

WRONG

There is a fundamental problem with math and specifically statistics among some on this thread. Delta's program to take A FEW analysts from the ranks of 90000* non-merit (labor) employees is statistically irrelevant. (*you must include DGS as Delta employees - which they are - even though they have almost zero chance of reaching management (also Envoy/Piedmont employees at AA or UGE employees to UA).

But the problem isn't so much that there is out of control racism or that airlines don't promote from within, the problem is MAINLY that airlines are labor-intensive with very few management jobs available. So carry on with believing "this isn't the reality of the industry" when no flight attendant and no ramper and no ticket agent, statistically speaking ever gets into HQ-level management. BTW, 'statistically irrelevant' means something like less than one in 100 flight attendants or rampers ever get into management....




Pu

[Edited 2015-10-12 21:59:09]
 
flybyguy
Posts: 1419
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:52 pm

RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:13 am

Just reading the story from the post link sends chills down my spine. If the allegations are true AA should be in deep trouble for this. However, there is also no indication that the employees reported this to HR or through other internal means. It may undermine their case if they went the litagatory route without first exhausting other options. The article also alludes to equipment issues being related to the US/AA merger. I worry that when aspirations for promotion don't go well for black employees in America that there is an automatic attribution to a racial component. I think this is a failure by management teams across the country for not communicating well the strengths and deficiencies of their employees. I think without proper communication and feedback, employees may have an unrealistically high confidence in their skillsets and abilities in comparison to their peers.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
catiii
Posts: 3584
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:28 pm

Quoting pu (Reply 46):
Delta's program to take A FEW analysts from the ranks of 90000* non-merit (labor) employees is statistically irrelevant. (*you must include DGS as Delta employees - which they are - even though they have almost zero chance of reaching management (also Envoy/Piedmont employees at AA or UGE employees to UA).

WRONG.

Who said anything about Delta? I don't work for Delta.

Quoting pu (Reply 46):
So carry on with believing "this isn't the reality of the industry" when no flight attendant and no ramper and no ticket agent, statistically speaking ever gets into HQ-level management.

I work with a group of 40 inflight crewmembers, all of whom came from the line and all of whom are in "HQ-level management" (and that's just one group within a much larger group). Our TechOps managers at our HQ are comprised predominantly (75% or so) from the line. So again, when you say:

Quoting pu (Reply 40):
It's hard for anyone to start in a non-management role and get into management at an airline - black, white, woman, man, or whatever!

...it's just not factually accurate.
 
D L X
Posts: 12676
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Racism & Discrimination At AA's DCA And PHL Hubs

Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:33 pm

Question: how many people here actually read the article?

It is awfully detailed. Things that are detailed have a greater likelihood of being true. It has left me concerned.

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